In part one of a two-part discussion about developing a business referral strategy, Blair is surprised to hear that David wants to cover how and why we can get better at giving away business, before talking about how to get more referrals.

In part one of a two-part discussion about developing a business referral strategy, Blair is surprised to hear that David wants to cover how and why we can get better at giving away business, before talking about how to get more referrals.

How to Make Referrals

Blair runs through one of his constraint driven exercises with David by having us imagine running our business with nobody dedicated to the various functions under the banner of new business.

Blair runs through one of his constraint driven exercises with David by having us imagine running our business with nobody dedicated to the various functions under the banner of new business.

Do You Even Need New Business People?

David has observed six common characteristics of agency principals that can affect whether or not their business succeeds.

David has observed six common characteristics of agency principals that can affect whether or not their business succeeds.

Predictive Traits of Successful Owners

Even after understanding and trying to adopt the philosophies from Win Without Pitching, Blair sees many creative firms struggling to increase profit because of these six obstacles involving their people and processes.   Links Mastering the Value Conversation The Complexities of Commission Culture Innoficiency in Your Agency The Enemy Within  The Complex Battle for Margin Debriefing After a New Business Call Is Your Firm Addicted to New Business? Who’s Going to Own This?

Even after understanding and trying to adopt the philosophies from Win Without Pitching, Blair sees many creative firms struggling to increase profit because of these six obstacles involving their people and processes.   Links <a href="https://2bobs.com/podcast/mastering-the-value-conversation" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Mastering the Value Conversation</a> <a href="https://2bobs.com/podcast/the-complexities-of-commission-culture" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Complexities of Commission Culture</a> <a href="https://2bobs.com/podcast/innoficiency-in-your-agency" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Innoficiency in Your Agency</a> <a href="https://2bobs.com/podcast/the-enemy-within" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Enemy Within</a> <a href="https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/the-complex-battle-for-margin/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> The Complex Battle for Margin</a> <a href="https://2bobs.com/podcast/debriefing-after-a-new-business-call" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Debriefing After a New Business Call</a> <a href="https://2bobs.com/podcast/is-your-firm-addicted-to-new-business" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Is Your Firm Addicted to New Business?</a> <a href="https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/whos-going-to-own-this/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Who’s Going to Own This?</a>

Six Barriers to New Business Success

This is your intervention and David has some tough questions about the important decisions you should be making to manage and grow your creative firm.   LINKS "The Four Types of Employees at Your Firm"

This is your intervention and David has some tough questions about the important decisions you should be making to manage and grow your creative firm. LINKS <a href="https://www.davidcbaker.com/four-types-of-employees-at-your-firm" rel="noopener nofollow" target="_blank">"The Four Types of Employees at Your Firm"</a>

Ten Questions I Want to Ask You

David feels like project managers get a bad rap and has tried to raise their profile within creative firms. So he’s gathered a list of traits from the best project managers he’s met in the hundreds of agencies he’s worked with over the years.  Links “Understanding Account People”

David feels like project managers get a bad rap and has tried to raise their profile within creative firms. So he’s gathered a list of traits from the best project managers he’s met in the hundreds of agencies he’s worked with over the years. Links <a href="https://2bobs.com/podcast/the-science-behind-structuring-roles" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">“Understanding Account People”</a>

Qualities of the World’s Best Project Managers

A lot has changed since Blair wrote his article about seven mistakes he sees creative firms make with CRM years ago, and David wants to know why Excel isn’t a good tool for managing sales leads.

A lot has changed since Blair wrote <a href="https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/seven-crm-mistakes-to-avoid/" rel="noopener nofollow" target="_blank">his article</a> about seven mistakes he sees creative firms make with CRM years ago, and David wants to know why Excel isn’t a good tool for managing sales leads.

CRM and the Mistakes to Avoid

Blair has six challenges creative agencies face when it comes to being compensated for the actual value they generate for their clients.

Blair has six challenges creative agencies face when it comes to being compensated for the actual value they generate for their clients.

Why We Suck at Negotiating

David addresses how vertically positioned agencies can manage a client roster containing multiple companies who are competitors with each other.

David addresses how vertically positioned agencies can manage a client roster containing multiple companies who are competitors with each other.

Developing a Client Conflict Strategy

Blair has been getting too much spam lately and sees an opportunity with warm leads that lies between inbound and outbound marketing which is not being mined well among the creative firms.   Links “Inbound, Outbound &amp; In Between” article on WinWithoutPitching.com

Blair has been getting too much spam lately and sees an opportunity with warm leads that lies between inbound and outbound marketing which is not being mined well among the creative firms.   Links <a href="https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/inbound-outbound-in-between/" rel="noopener nofollow" target="_blank">“Inbound, Outbound &amp; In Between” article on WinWithoutPitching.com</a>

Inbound, Outbound, and In Between

Conversations on the art of creative entrepreneurship with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

We’re an agile (I.e. 2 people who bring in trusted colleagues based on project needs) studio + what we’ve learned from the insight of Blair + David has helped us grow our client base to be a better fit for our business goals.

2 Experts

Blair and David have known one another for a long time, and worked in parallel in the agency industry. They know where the other’s expertise will shine, and they know how to push one another’s buttons.

These characteristics make this podcast as enjoyable to listen to as it is rewarding to put their advice in to practice. 

Please don’t stop guys!

The expertise is only matched by the candor

2Bobs - with David C. Baker and Blair Enns

Do you have trouble talking about money with clients? David makes seven common statements about money and Blair states whether they are true or false and why.

Do you have trouble talking about money with clients? David makes seven common statements about money and Blair states whether they are true or false and why.

Truths and Myths About Money

David gets Blair to expound on his statement that “the value conversation is where value pricing theory goes to die,” and how crucial that conversation is within the sales framework he lays out in his new book, "Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour."

David gets Blair to expound on his statement that “the value conversation is where value pricing theory goes to die,” and how crucial that conversation is within the sales framework he lays out in his new book, "Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour."

Mastering the Value Conversation

David Baker wrote a book! And Blair asks him about his authoring process, publishing, and the book's topic.

David Baker wrote a book! And Blair asks him about his authoring process, publishing, and the book's topic.

The Business of Expertise - Part 1

After having discussed positioning in multiple previous episodes, David puts together in this one episode the seven most common mistakes firms make when positioning themselves.

After having discussed positioning in multiple previous episodes, David puts together in this one episode the seven most common mistakes firms make when positioning themselves.

Seven Positioning Mistakes to Avoid

What keeps you up at night? Blair interviews David about the five most common fears that he has seen in the consulting work he has done with over 900 firms.

What keeps you up at night? Blair interviews David about the five most common fears that he has seen in the consulting work he has done with over 900 firms.

Five Irrational Fears

Blair does his best to reform David's skepticism of sales, discussing what works well and what fails miserably in the sales process.

Blair does his best to reform David's skepticism of sales, discussing what works well and what fails miserably in the sales process.

A Sales Skeptic Interviews a Sales Expert

David and Blair discuss a list of words Blair came up with that you should avoid to keep you out of trouble and in control of the buy-sell relationship.

David and Blair discuss a list of words Blair came up with that you should avoid to keep you out of trouble and in control of the buy-sell relationship.

Seven Words You Can't Say in Business Development

Listeners on Twitter wanted to know what clients actually want from creative firms, so David makes a list based on his experience of what good clients want, while Blair's reaction is "who cares what clients want... all they wanted was a 'faster horse.'"

Listeners on Twitter wanted to know what clients actually want from creative firms, so David makes a list based on his experience of what good clients want, while Blair's reaction is "who cares what clients want... all they wanted was a 'faster horse.'"

What Good Clients Are Really Looking For

Blair revisits David's new book, interviewing him on the two chapters that cover the important topic of positioning: "Distinguishing Between Vertical and Horizontal Expertise," and "Principles for the Less Exchangeable Positioning of Expertise."

Blair revisits David's new book, interviewing him on the two chapters that cover the important topic of positioning: "Distinguishing Between Vertical and Horizontal Expertise," and "Principles for the Less Exchangeable Positioning of Expertise."

The Business of Expertise - Part 2

Selling in One Lesson

Blair and David consider the hundreds of firms they have each worked with over the years to identify the characteristics of highest performing firms and what they have seen agency principals do to succeed.

Blair and David consider the hundreds of firms they have each worked with over the years to identify the characteristics of highest performing firms and what they have seen agency principals do to succeed.

Common Traits of Success

If I Were Starting Over

The issue of how principals manage their employees continues to pop up for David year after year, and Blair is worried that he might have this problem in his own firm.

The issue of how principals manage their employees continues to pop up for David year after year, and Blair is worried that he might have this problem in his own firm.

How to Drive Your Employees Bat Sh*t Crazy

Replacing Presentations With Conversations

Blair is struck by how creative businesses have trouble applying their creativity to their revenue models, so he and David discuss some of the best ways firms can get paid.   LINKS Subscribed: Why the Subscription Model Will Be Your Company's Future - and What to Do About It by Tien Tzuo The Membership Economy: Find Your Super Users, Master the Forever Transaction, and Build Recurring Revenue by Robbie Kellman Baxter The Automatic Customer: Creating a Subscription Business in Any Industry by John Warrillow 2Bobs Episode 31: “Mastering the Value Conversation” 2Bobs Episode 25: “Pricing Creativity” Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour by Blair Enns

Blair is struck by how creative businesses have trouble applying their creativity to their revenue models, so he and David discuss some of the best ways firms can get paid.   LINKS <a href="https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/574589/subscribed-by-tien-tzuo-with-gabe-weisert/9780525536468/" rel="noopener nofollow" target="_blank">Subscribed: Why the Subscription Model Will Be Your Company's Future - and What to Do About It by Tien Tzuo</a> <a href="https://amzn.to/2JXH0Sc" rel="noopener nofollow" target="_blank">The Membership Economy: Find Your Super Users, Master the Forever Transaction, and Build Recurring Revenue by Robbie Kellman Baxter</a> <a href="https://amzn.to/2WNWRZz" rel="noopener nofollow" target="_blank">The Automatic Customer: Creating a Subscription Business in Any Industry by John Warrillow</a> <a href="https://2bobs.com/podcast/mastering-the-value-conversation" rel="noopener nofollow" target="_blank">2Bobs Episode 31: “Mastering the Value Conversation”</a> <a href="https://2bobs.com/podcast/pricing-creativity" rel="noopener nofollow" target="_blank">2Bobs Episode 25: “Pricing Creativity”</a> <a href="https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/pricing-creativity/" rel="noopener nofollow" target="_blank">Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour by Blair Enns</a>

Different Pricing Models

David and Blair lay out some of the reasons why they think, in most cases, agencies pursuing recurring revenue models are making a mistake.   Links “Why Monthly Recurring Revenue (MRR) Arrangements May Not Be Ideal” by David C. Baker The End of Average: How We Succeed in a World That Values Sameness by Todd Rose Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour by Blair Enns The Life-Changing Magic of Tidying Up: The Japanese Art of Decluttering and Organizing by Marie Kondō “Unbundling the Corporation” by John Hagel III and Marc Singer for Harvard Business Review

David and Blair lay out some of the reasons why they think, in most cases, agencies pursuing recurring revenue models are making a mistake.   Links <a href="https://www.davidcbaker.com/why-monthly-recurring-revenue-arrangements-may-not-be-ideal" rel="noopener nofollow" target="_blank">“Why Monthly Recurring Revenue (MRR) Arrangements May Not Be Ideal”</a> by David C. Baker <a href="https://www.amazon.com/End-Average-Succeed-Values-Sameness-ebook/dp/B00R1JU7P6/" rel="noopener nofollow" target="_blank">The End of Average: How We Succeed in a World That Values Sameness</a> by Todd Rose <a href="https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/pricing-creativity/" rel="noopener nofollow" target="_blank">Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour</a> by Blair Enns <a href="https://shop.konmari.com/collections/books/products/book-set-the-life-changing-magic-of-tidying-up-spark-joy-1" rel="noopener nofollow" target="_blank">The Life-Changing Magic of Tidying Up: The Japanese Art of Decluttering and Organizing</a> by Marie Kondō <a href="https://hbr.org/1999/03/unbundling-the-corporation" rel="noopener nofollow" target="_blank">“Unbundling the Corporation”</a> by John Hagel III and Marc Singer for Harvard Business Review

Productized Vs Customized Services and Monthly Recurring Revenue

Blair has some questions this week and David has answers. The topic is profit - what it is and the targets firms should be setting.

Blair has some questions this week and David has answers. The topic is profit - what it is and the targets firms should be setting.

The Role of Profit in a Creative Enterprise

David reveals some of the science behind the extensive research he has done over the past couple decades to develop a key part of his Total Business Review. Blair asks him to explain the three roles principals cannot let go of, along with the three roles they should give up first if they want their firms to really thrive.

David reveals some of the science behind the extensive research he has done over the past couple decades to develop a key part of his <a href="https://www.recourses.com/recourses-total-business-review" rel="noopener nofollow" target="_blank">Total Business Review</a>. Blair asks him to explain the three roles principals cannot let go of, along with the three roles they should give up first if they want their firms to really thrive.

The Science Behind Structuring Roles

Blair revisits the first piece of thought leadership he ever wrote, taking a look at why firms may or may not do for themselves what they do for their clients.

Blair revisits the first piece of thought leadership he ever wrote, taking a look at why firms may or may not do for themselves what they do for their clients.

Why Advertising Agencies Don't Advertise

Blair talks about his new book, "Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour," and the process it took to write it. David gets him to share three of the main rules laid out in the book that firms should apply in order to see significant increases in profit.

Blair talks about his new book, "Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour," and the process it took to write it. David gets him to share three of the main rules laid out in the book that firms should apply in order to see significant increases in profit.

Pricing Creativity

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