Doug Mayer

There was a reading assignment for this show…naturally, Phil couldn’t be bothered to do any actual work, so I had the great pleasure of speaking with Doug Mayer about his new book, The Race That Changed Running: The Inside Story of UTMB, out TODAY!  An American expat living full-time in Chamonix, Doug works as a journalist and runs his own tour guide company, Run the Alps.  The new book (his third) grew out of his own personal history with and curiosity about the race that, like it or not, is at the forefront of the world ultra and trail running scene.  We talked about many of the issues and controversies around the race and the UTMB series of races, the influence of Ironman, how the book was written, and also Doug’s recent trip to Innsbrouck to cover the World Trail and Mountain Running Championships.  This was a really fun conversation that I think people will find very thought-provoking.  Plus, the triumphant return of Desert Island Picks!LinksOrder The Race That Changed Running or Doug’s other booksRun the AlpsDoug’s coverage of the World Trail and Mountain Running ChampionshipsDesert Island Picks: The Odyssey, Hot Rocks by the Rolling Stones, Big Mountain Brewing Wild MountainIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

There was a reading assignment for this show…naturally, Phil couldn’t be bothered to do any actual work, so I had the great pleasure of speaking with Doug Mayer about his new book, The Race That Changed Running: The Inside Story of UTMB, out TODAY! An American expat living full-time in Chamonix, Doug works as a journalist and runs his own tour guide company, Run the Alps. The new book (his third) grew out of his own personal history with and curiosity about the race that, like it or not, is at the forefront of the world ultra and trail running scene. We talked about many of the issues and controversies around the race and the UTMB series of races, the influence of Ironman, how the book was written, and also Doug’s recent trip to Innsbrouck to cover the World Trail and Mountain Running Championships. This was a really fun conversation that I think people will find very thought-provoking. Plus, the triumphant return of Desert Island Picks!Links Order <a href="https://helvetiq.com/us/the-race-that-changed-running" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Race That Changed Running</a> or <a href="https://helvetiq.com/us/trail-running-illustrated" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Doug’s other books</a> <a href="https://runthealps.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Run the Alps</a> <a href="https://news.ultrasignup.com/good-vibrations-from-innsbruck-austria/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Doug’s coverage of the World Trail and Mountain Running Championships</a>Desert Island Picks: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odyssey" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Odyssey</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_Rocks_1964%E2%80%931971" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Hot Rocks</a> by the Rolling Stones,<a href="https://www.bigmtnbrew.co" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> Big Mountain Brewing</a> Wild MountainIntro music: "Fine Line" by <a href="http://facebook.com/thebloodletters" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">the Bloodletters</a> Outro music: "When I Was Still Young" by <a href="http://iloveyardsale.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Yard Sale</a>

Episode 114 - "The Race That Changed Running" with Doug Mayer

Rich Lockwood has been a mainstay on the PNW trail-running scene for several years, but he grabbed the national spotlight in 2022 with a string of world-class performances, capped by a win at the uber-competitive Run Rabbit Run 100 and a podium spot an the Doi Inthanon 100K (by UTMB, blah blah blah) in his first international event. We caught up with Rich after last month’s return to racing at the newly-reinvigorated Lake Sonoma 50 mile because we wanted to clarify a bunch of crucial information that hadn’t been shared pubicly before, like what cartoon character he identifies with. Let no one accuse us of not asking the tough questions.Links:Follow Rich on IGBeers for this episode:  Best Day Brewing Hazy IPA, Two Way Brewing Confusion Saison, Holy Mountain Throne of BloodIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Rich Lockwood has been a mainstay on the PNW trail-running scene for several years, but he grabbed the national spotlight in 2022 with a string of world-class performances, capped by a win at the uber-competitive Run Rabbit Run 100 and a podium spot an the Doi Inthanon 100K (by UTMB, blah blah blah) in his first international event. We caught up with Rich after last month’s return to racing at the newly-reinvigorated Lake Sonoma 50 mile because we wanted to clarify a bunch of crucial information that hadn’t been shared pubicly before, like what cartoon character he identifies with. Let no one accuse us of not asking the tough questions.Links: <a href="https://www.instagram.com/richardalexlockwood/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Follow Rich on IG</a>Beers for this episode: <a href="https://bestdaybrewing.com/collections/core-beers/products/hazy-ipa" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Best Day Brewing Hazy IPA</a>, <a href="https://twowaybrewing.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Two Way Brewing</a> <a href="https://www.beermenus.com/beers/125688-two-way-confusion" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Confusion Saison</a>, <a href="https://holymountainbrewing.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Holy Mountain</a> <a href="https://untappd.com/b/holy-mountain-brewing-throne-of-blood/4686216" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Throne of Blood</a>Intro music: "Fine Line" by <a href="http://facebook.com/thebloodletters" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">the Bloodletters</a> Outro music: "When I Was Still Young" by <a href="http://iloveyardsale.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Yard Sale</a>

Episode 113 - Twenty Questions with Rich Lockwood

Chad Lasater

Many of you may not know about Chad Lasater, but you should. He’s the current champion of the Grand Slam of Ultrarunning (having finished the GS in both 2021 and 2022) and after a breakthrough performance at Desert Solstice (his first real 24-hour race) he is currently in position for a spot on the US team for the World Championships this fall. We recorded this in late 2022, shortly after Chad’s awesome run at DS, where he narrowly missed Bob Hearn’s 50+ American Record, but I’ve been too busy to release the show until now—which is great, since Chad has an insanely busy year about to start up. In this episode, we reminisce about the good old days in the late 2010s, when Phil and I were still able to kind of keep up with Chad, and we try to figure out The Secret behind his incredible progress in the sport and how he is able to be running huge PRs into his 50s. Then, it’s time for a very entertaining 20 Questions; Chad has raced 25 100s all over the world and has a million stories to share.Links:Follow Chad on IG - zero posts so far!Beer for this episode: Wicked Weed PerniciousIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Many of you may not know about Chad Lasater, but you should. He’s the current champion of the Grand Slam of Ultrarunning (having finished the GS in both 2021 and 2022) and after a breakthrough performance at Desert Solstice (his first real 24-hour race) he is currently in position for a spot on the US team for the World Championships this fall. We recorded this in late 2022, shortly after Chad’s awesome run at DS, where he narrowly missed Bob Hearn’s 50+ American Record, but I’ve been too busy to release the show until now—which is great, since Chad has an insanely busy year about to start up. In this episode, we reminisce about the good old days in the late 2010s, when Phil and I were still able to kind of keep up with Chad, and we try to figure out The Secret behind his incredible progress in the sport and how he is able to be running huge PRs into his 50s. Then, it’s time for a very entertaining 20 Questions; Chad has raced 25 100s all over the world and has a million stories to share.Links: <a href="https://www.instagram.com/rye.outside/?hl=en" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Follow Chad on IG</a> - zero posts so far!Beer for this episode: <a href="https://www.wickedweedbrewing.com/beer/pernicious/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Wicked Weed Pernicious</a>Intro music: "Fine Line" by <a href="http://facebook.com/thebloodletters" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">the Bloodletters</a> Outro music: "When I Was Still Young" by <a href="http://iloveyardsale.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Yard Sale</a>

Episode 112 - Twenty Questions with Chad Lasater

Jason Mintz

Happy New Year! Sneaking in our traditional year-end pod under the wire, my favorite episode every year, debating the Ultrarunners of the Year with recurring guest Jason Mintz, who battled through COVID and came to PLAY! Tons of consensus this year but also some pretty good debate. Phil and I both completely fucked up and somehow both left Matthieu Blanchard out of our top 10, which is a travesty, but otherwise I think we held our own. I had a great time pointing out Phil’s lack of internal consistency which is always fun, and Phil made me defend Camille, which was weird.Beer for this episode: Wolf Hills Trooper’s Alley, Captain Lawrence Clearwater KolschLinksLaura Kline on the 2017 ballotJason Mintz on the 2018 ballotRich Heffron on the 2019 ballot for the women and menMintz again on the 2021 ballotMy final ballot in 2016, 2017, 2018, and 2019Intro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Happy New Year! Sneaking in our traditional year-end pod under the wire, my favorite episode every year, debating the Ultrarunners of the Year with recurring guest Jason Mintz, who battled through COVID and came to PLAY! Tons of consensus this year but also some pretty good debate. Phil and I both completely fucked up and somehow both left Matthieu Blanchard out of our top 10, which is a travesty, but otherwise I think we held our own. I had a great time pointing out Phil’s lack of internal consistency which is always fun, and Phil made me defend Camille, which was weird.Beer for this episode: <a href="https://untappd.com/b/wolf-hills-brewing-co-trooper-s-alley-ipa/28559" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Wolf Hills Trooper’s Alley</a>, <a href="https://www.captainlawrencebrewing.com/clearwater-kolsch/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Captain Lawrence Clearwater Kolsch</a>Links <a href="https://www.gunksrunner.com/paincave/2018/1/4/episode-06-debating-the-uroy-ballot-with-laura-kline" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Laura Kline on the 2017 ballot</a> <a href="https://www.gunksrunner.com/paincave/2018/12/25/episode-31-debating-the-uroy-ballot-with-jason-mintz" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Jason Mintz on the 2018 ballot</a> <a href="https://www.gunksrunner.com/paincave/2019/12/30/episode-48-debating-uroy-with-phil-vondra-and-rich-heffron" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Rich Heffron on the 2019 ballot for the women</a> and <a href="https://www.gunksrunner.com/paincave/2019/12/30/episode-49-debating-the-mens-uroy-with-phil-vondra-and-rich-heffron" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">men</a> <a href="https://www.gunksrunner.com/paincave/2021/12/22/episode-100-ultrarunner-of-the-year-with-jason-mintz" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Mintz again on the 2021 ballot</a> My final ballot in <a href="https://gunksrunner.blogspot.com/2016/12/ultrarunner-of-year-my-ballot.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">2016</a>, <a href="https://gunksrunner.blogspot.com/2018/01/ultrarunner-of-year-my-ballot.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">2017</a>, <a href="https://gunksrunner.blogspot.com/2018/12/ultrarunner-of-year-my-ballot.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">2018</a>, and <a href="https://gunksrunner.blogspot.com/2019/12/ultrarunner-of-year-my-ballot.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">2019</a>Intro music: "Fine Line" by <a href="http://facebook.com/thebloodletters" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">the Bloodletters</a> Outro music: "When I Was Still Young" by <a href="http://iloveyardsale.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Yard Sale</a>

Episode 111 - Ultrarunners of the Year with Jason Mintz

Riley Brady

It took us way too long to have Beastcoast star Riley Brady on the pod. For some reason we waited until they’re getting ready to move to Boulder (like everyone else!) to invite them on. Fresh off a Golden Ticket-winning performance at the Javelina Jundred, Riley joined the show to talk about competition in the sport, The King, karaoke, and much more.Links:Follow Riley on IGBeer for this episode: Treehouse Six, Dancing Grain Harvest SunIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

It took us way too long to have Beastcoast star Riley Brady on the pod. For some reason we waited until they’re getting ready to move to Boulder (like everyone else!) to invite them on. Fresh off a Golden Ticket-winning performance at the Javelina Jundred, Riley joined the show to talk about competition in the sport, The King, karaoke, and much more.Links: <a href="https://www.instagram.com/rye.outside/?hl=en" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Follow Riley on IG</a>Beer for this episode: <a href="https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/28743/572121/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Treehouse Six</a>, <a href="https://dancinggrain.com/the-beer/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Dancing Grain Harvest Sun</a>Intro music: "Fine Line" by <a href="http://facebook.com/thebloodletters" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">the Bloodletters</a> Outro music: "When I Was Still Young" by <a href="http://iloveyardsale.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Yard Sale</a>

Episode 110 - Twenty Questions with Riley Brady

Pete Mortimer

It’s always a little scary to double the amount of Brits on the show, but it couldn’t have been easier with Pete Mortimer, one of the most accomplished and prolific athletes in our sport today. We talked about some of Pete’s most recent exploits at HURT, Run Rabbit, and Barkley, before tackling all-important questions about hashing, Metallica, and (of course) Marmite.Links:Pete’s websitePete on IG and StravaBeer for this episode: Treehouse Juice Machine, Radiant Pig Save the RobotsIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

It’s always a little scary to double the amount of Brits on the show, but it couldn’t have been easier with Pete Mortimer, one of the most accomplished and prolific athletes in our sport today. We talked about some of Pete’s most recent exploits at HURT, Run Rabbit, and Barkley, before tackling all-important questions about hashing, Metallica, and (of course) Marmite.Links: <a href="https://www.8moremilescoaching.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pete’s website</a> Pete on<a href="https://www.google.com/url?cad=rja&amp;cd=&amp;esrc=s&amp;q=&amp;rct=j&amp;sa=t&amp;source=web&amp;uact=8&amp;url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.instagram.com%2Fpjmortimer%2F%3Fhl%3Den&amp;usg=AOvVaw1wqUUstHcqleLOy_EoF8xT&amp;ved=2ahUKEwjL5Zeusa77AhW5k2oFHcMHBKoQFnoECAsQAQ" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> IG</a> and <a href="https://www.google.com/url?cad=rja&amp;cd=&amp;esrc=s&amp;q=&amp;rct=j&amp;sa=t&amp;source=web&amp;uact=8&amp;url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.strava.com%2Fathletes%2F2873635&amp;usg=AOvVaw1H1ankaued6xotA0vrZJgs&amp;ved=2ahUKEwjL5Zeusa77AhW5k2oFHcMHBKoQFnoECBEQAQ" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Strava</a>Beer for this episode: <a href="https://www.google.com/url?cad=rja&amp;cd=&amp;esrc=s&amp;q=&amp;rct=j&amp;sa=t&amp;source=web&amp;uact=8&amp;url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.beeradvocate.com%2Fbeer%2Fprofile%2F28743%2F207976%2F&amp;usg=AOvVaw2di4JccGHwaAt4J6a2WGDP&amp;ved=2ahUKEwibwsORsq77AhUTnGoFHX_FDX8QFnoECAsQAQ" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Treehouse Juice Machine</a>, <a href="https://www.radiantpigbeers.com/beers" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Radiant Pig Save the Robots</a>Intro music: "Fine Line" by <a href="http://facebook.com/thebloodletters" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">the Bloodletters</a> Outro music: "When I Was Still Young" by <a href="http://iloveyardsale.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Yard Sale</a>

Episode 109 - Twenty Questions with Pete Mortimer

Despite being only 36, Sabrina Little has been running ultras for over fifteen years. She won the famed Old Dominion 100 mile at only 23 years old; by the time she was 26, she held American records for 24 hours and 200K, and led the US women to a team gold medal with her runner-up finish at the 24-hour world championships.  Now with a PhD in philosophy, Sabrina is one of the leading thinkers in the sport of ultrarunning. We welcomed her onto the show after just celebrating the birth of her second child to talk about some serious but mostly silly stuff, ‘cause you know, that’s what we do.Links:Sabrina’s websiteSabrina on IG and Strava“Beer” for this episode: Athletic Oktoberfest, Drowned Lands Harvest Kill Sour IPAIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Despite being only 36, Sabrina Little has been running ultras for over fifteen years. She won the famed Old Dominion 100 mile at only 23 years old; by the time she was 26, she held American records for 24 hours and 200K, and led the US women to a team gold medal with her runner-up finish at the 24-hour world championships. Now with a PhD in philosophy, Sabrina is one of the leading thinkers in the sport of ultrarunning. We welcomed her onto the show after just celebrating the birth of her second child to talk about some serious but mostly silly stuff, ‘cause you know, that’s what we do.Links: <a href="https://sabrinalittle.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Sabrina’s website</a> Sabrina on <a href="https://www.instagram.com/sabrinablittle/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">IG</a> and <a href="https://www.strava.com/pros/4773441" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Strava</a>“Beer” for this episode: <a href="https://athleticbrewing.com/products/oktoberfest-non-alcoholic-6-pack" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Athletic Oktoberfest</a>, <a href="https://untappd.com/b/the-drowned-lands-brewery-harvest-kill/3779861" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Drowned Lands Harvest Kill Sour IPA</a>Intro music: "Fine Line" by <a href="http://facebook.com/thebloodletters" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">the Bloodletters</a> Outro music: "When I Was Still Young" by <a href="http://iloveyardsale.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Yard Sale</a>

Episode 108 - Twenty Questions with Sabrina Little

Phil Vondra

Oh, dear listener, did we have a podcast for you.  Recorded in beautiful Dolby surround sound, it was full of ultra musings, information, insights, wit, beer, witbeer, and other hilarity.  We talked about UTMB, Leadville, various other goings on.  Yes, it had been a while since we podded, but no matter!  It was like riding a proverbial bicycle.  Truly, a podcast for the ages.That was our last episode, which was our first episode in several months, and which was waylaid by a faulty USB port.  Sadly, it is lost to the sands of time.  The workd may never understand how truly Phil and I were at the peak of our podcasting powers.So, we took another six weeks to drown our sorrows and now come to you with this suboptimal crap.  Enjoy.Beer for this episode: Athletic Brewing Free Wave, Wicked Weed Freak of NatureIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Oh, dear listener, did we have a podcast for you. Recorded in beautiful Dolby surround sound, it was full of ultra musings, information, insights, wit, beer, witbeer, and other hilarity. We talked about UTMB, Leadville, various other goings on. Yes, it had been a while since we podded, but no matter! It was like riding a proverbial bicycle. Truly, a podcast for the ages.That was our last episode, which was our first episode in several months, and which was waylaid by a faulty USB port. Sadly, it is lost to the sands of time. The workd may never understand how truly Phil and I were at the peak of our podcasting powers.So, we took another six weeks to drown our sorrows and now come to you with this suboptimal crap. Enjoy.Beer for this episode: <a href="https://athleticbrewing.com/collections/beer/products/free-wave-hazy-ipa-non-alcoholic-6-pack" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Athletic Brewing Free Wave</a>, <a href="https://www.wickedweedbrewing.com/beer/freak-of-nature/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Wicked Weed Freak of Nature</a>Intro music: "Fine Line" by <a href="http://facebook.com/thebloodletters" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">the Bloodletters</a> Outro music: "When I Was Still Young" by <a href="http://iloveyardsale.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Yard Sale</a>

Episode 107 - This Month (Summer?) in Ultrarunning with Phil Vondra

The Legend returns to the Pain Cave to recap Western States with “Heat Training,” breaking down the juiciest storylines and biggest takeaways from this past weekend in Auburn.  Then, we review our men’s and women’s picks and see who was the best prognosticator this year.  Finally, we get Phil’s report from his PR at Manitou’s Revenge and touch on the rest of the results from a busy week in the trail and ultrarunning world.LinksWestern States preview pod (with picks) featuring Cat BradleyBeer for this episode: West Kill Kaaterskill IPA, Athletic Brewing Upside Dawn (use promo code JASONF20 for 20% off your first order)Intro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

The Legend returns to the Pain Cave to recap Western States with “Heat Training,” breaking down the juiciest storylines and biggest takeaways from this past weekend in Auburn. Then, we review our men’s and women’s picks and see who was the best prognosticator this year. Finally, we get Phil’s report from his PR at Manitou’s Revenge and touch on the rest of the results from a busy week in the trail and ultrarunning world. Links <a href="https://www.gunksrunner.com/paincave/2022/6/20/episode-104-western-states-preview-with-cat-bradley-and-phil-vondra" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Western States preview pod</a> (with picks) featuring Cat BradleyBeer for this episode: <a href="https://www.westkillbrewing.com#menu-section" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">West Kill Kaaterskill IPA</a>, <a href="https://athleticbrewing.com/collections/beer/products/free-wave-hazy-ipa-non-alcoholic-6-pack" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Athletic Brewing </a><a href="https://athleticbrewing.com/collections/beer/products/upside-dawn-golden-ale-non-alcoholic-6-pack" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Upside Dawn</a> (use promo code JASONF20 for 20% off your first order)Intro music: "Fine Line" by <a href="http://facebook.com/thebloodletters" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">the Bloodletters</a> Outro music: "When I Was Still Young" by <a href="http://iloveyardsale.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Yard Sale</a>

Episode 106 - Western States Recap with Phil Vondra

Brittany Peterson

One more episode to drop into the pre-Western States hype maelstrom: we sit down with former podium finisher Brittany Peterson, one of the world’s best trail runners and one the pre-race favorites this weekend at the Big Dance, for our world-famous 20 Questions.Links:Brittany’s websiteBrittany on IG and Strava“Beer” for this episode: Synergy Raw Kombucha UnityIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

One more episode to drop into the pre-Western States hype maelstrom: we sit down with former podium finisher Brittany Peterson, one of the world’s best trail runners and one the pre-race favorites this weekend at the Big Dance, for our world-famous 20 Questions.Links: <a href="https://www.brittanypetersonruns.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Brittany’s website</a> Brittany on <a href="https://www.instagram.com/runhappyb/?hl=en" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">IG</a> and <a href="https://www.strava.com/athletes/1246271" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Strava</a>“Beer” for this episode: <a href="https://gtslivingfoods.com/products/gts-synergy-kombucha-unity" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Synergy Raw Kombucha Unity</a>Intro music: "Fine Line" by <a href="http://facebook.com/thebloodletters" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">the Bloodletters</a> Outro music: "When I Was Still Young" by <a href="http://iloveyardsale.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Yard Sale</a>

Episode 105 - Twenty Questions with Brittany Peterson

The Pain Cave is a free-flowing conversation with a wide variety of guests from the worlds of running and exercise science.  We talk about physiology, sports science, politics, music, beer, and occasionally running.

Best well rounded running podcast out there. The variety of show structures makes this show such an asset to the running scene. I’d like to crack a beer with Jay and talk shop!

A running podcast you can trust.

I really enjoy the variety of guests and topics.  And these folks really know their running!

Nice coverage

The Pain Cave

Maggie Guterl

Last month, Maggie Guterl became the first woman to win Big’s Backyard Ultra, the de facto world championship of the Last Man Standing format.  This month, her career reaches new heights with her appearance in the Pain Cave!  The Legend, Phil Vondra, joins us for a quick recap of the World Mountain Running Championships and the North Face Endurance Challenge championship before Maggie calls in to talk about her epic run at Big’s, 24-hour racing, the allure of Barkley’s, her favorite seltzer, and more.Beer: Other Half Green Down to the Socks and Small NelsonMaggie’s IGRugged RunningDesert Island Picks: an atlas, Bonobos, Polar Lime SeltzerIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Last month, Maggie Guterl became the first woman to win Big’s Backyard Ultra, the de facto world championship of the Last Man Standing format. This month, her career reaches new heights with her appearance in the Pain Cave! The Legend, Phil Vondra, joins us for a quick recap of the World Mountain Running Championships and the North Face Endurance Challenge championship before Maggie calls in to talk about her epic run at Big’s, 24-hour racing, the allure of Barkley’s, her favorite seltzer, and more.Beer: Other Half Green Down to the Socks and Small NelsonMaggie’s IGRugged RunningDesert Island Picks: an atlas, Bonobos, Polar Lime SeltzerIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Episode 47 - Pushing Boundaries with Maggie Guterl

The Legend is back in the co-pilot’s seat for another installment of TMIU. We start off with a whirlwind of results from around the globe before delving deep into the two biggest events of recent weeks: Big’s Backyard and the 24 hour World Championships. Along the way, we tackle the burning questions, like: how to we fix the USATF championship process? Do people root for Camille, or just respect her? What is a Moscato? Plus, we give our picks for the podium at this weekend’s North Face Championships.Beer for this episode: Trillium Brewing Dialed-In Double IPAIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

The Legend is back in the co-pilot’s seat for another installment of TMIU. We start off with a whirlwind of results from around the globe before delving deep into the two biggest events of recent weeks: Big’s Backyard and the 24 hour World Championships. Along the way, we tackle the burning questions, like: how to we fix the USATF championship process? Do people root for Camille, or just respect her? What is a Moscato? Plus, we give our picks for the podium at this weekend’s <a href="https://www.thenorthface.com/en_ca/get-outdoors/endurance-challenge/california.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">North Face Championships</a>.Beer for this episode: <a href="https://www.trilliumbrewing.com/trillium-dialed-in-double-ipa" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Trillium Brewing Dialed-In Double IPA</a>Intro music: "Fine Line" by <a href="http://facebook.com/thebloodletters" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">the Bloodletters</a> Outro music: "When I Was Still Young" by <a href="http://iloveyardsale.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Yard Sale</a>

Episode 46 - This Month in Ultrarunning with Phil Vondra

Pete Kostelnick

We had so much fun talking with one of the fastest US women ever at 24 hours (Megan Alvarado) that we decided to do the same for the men. Pete Kostelnick is a two-time winner and the course record holder at the famed Badwater 135, as well as #5 on the all-time US 24-hour list, but he’s perhaps best known for his record-setting run across America in 2016, breaking Frank Giannino’s 36-year old record by more than four days. This summer Pete took it to a new extreme, running 5300+ miles self-supported from the Kenai Peninsula in Alaska to Key West, Florida—a diagonal crossing of the continent—in just under 100 days. I spoke with Pete about how he got into running long distances (1:30), his experiences at Badwater (10:40), racing 24 hours (16:00), his record TransAmerica run (27:30), and his amazing “Ke2Key” adventure (37:00).LinksPete’s Feet Across AmericaPete’s InstagramDesert Island Picks: Born to Run by Christopher McDougall, Dizzy Up the Girl by the Goo Goo Dolls, Lagunitas Hop Stoopid, Ska Brewing Modus HoperandiIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

We had so much fun talking with one of the fastest US women ever at 24 hours (Megan Alvarado) that we decided to do the same for the men. Pete Kostelnick is a two-time winner and the course record holder at the famed Badwater 135, as well as #5 on the all-time US 24-hour list, but he’s perhaps best known for his record-setting run across America in 2016, breaking Frank Giannino’s 36-year old record by more than four days. This summer Pete took it to a new extreme, running 5300+ miles self-supported from the Kenai Peninsula in Alaska to Key West, Florida—a diagonal crossing of the continent—in just under 100 days. I spoke with Pete about how he got into running long distances (1:30), his experiences at Badwater (10:40), racing 24 hours (16:00), his record TransAmerica run (27:30), and his amazing “Ke2Key” adventure (37:00).Links <a href="http://petesfeetaa.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pete’s Feet Across America</a> <a href="https://www.instagram.com/petekostelnick/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pete’s Instagram</a> Desert Island Picks: <a href="http://www.chrismcdougall.com/born-to-run/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Born to Run by Christopher McDougall</a>, <a href="https://open.spotify.com/album/4UMjBXcRqIgMZ1XumU2x5T" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Dizzy Up the Girl by the Goo Goo Dolls</a>, <a href="https://lagunitas.com/beer/hop-stoopid" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Lagunitas Hop Stoopid</a>, <a href="http://skabrewing.com/brews/modus-hoperandi-ipa/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Ska Brewing Modus Hoperandi</a>Intro music: "Fine Line" by <a href="http://facebook.com/thebloodletters" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">the Bloodletters</a> Outro music: "When I Was Still Young" by <a href="http://iloveyardsale.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Yard Sale</a>

Episode 29 - Epic Adventures with Pete Kostelnick

Jonathan Clinthorne

Sifting through the various dietary and nutritional approaches to our sport (vegan! low carb! gluten-free! fruitarian!) can be confusing and, frankly, exhausting. Don’t worry, though: elite runner/nutrition PhD/Ultrarunning magazine coverboy Jonathan Clinthorne joins us in the Pain Cave to help us sort through it all. We talked about his background as the second-fastest ultrarunning former lacrosse player to graduate from Michigan State, various approaches to a traditional carbohydrate-rich approach, the benefits and limitations of a low-carbohydrate/ketogenic diet, and more.LinksA little background on JonathanOur interview with the fastest ultrarunning former lacrosse-playing MSU gradThe Art and Science of Low-Carbohydrate PerformanceThe recent IAAF Consensus Statement for nutrition in athletesDesert Island Picks: The Pillars of the Earth by Ken Follet, Led Zeppelin III, Bell’s Two-Hearted IPAIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Sifting through the various dietary and nutritional approaches to our sport (vegan! low carb! gluten-free! fruitarian!) can be confusing and, frankly, exhausting. Don’t worry, though: elite runner/nutrition PhD/Ultrarunning magazine coverboy Jonathan Clinthorne joins us in the Pain Cave to help us sort through it all. We talked about his background as the second-fastest ultrarunning former lacrosse player to graduate from Michigan State, various approaches to a traditional carbohydrate-rich approach, the benefits and limitations of a low-carbohydrate/ketogenic diet, and more.Links <a href="https://www.menshealth.com/weight-loss/a26090253/man-weight-loss-transformation-ultramarathons/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">A little background on Jonathan</a> Our interview with <a href="https://www.gunksrunner.com/paincave/2019/4/3/episode-34-chasing-records-with-mike-wardian" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">the fastest ultrarunning former lacrosse-playing MSU grad</a> <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Art-Science-Low-Carbohydrate-Performance/dp/0983490716" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Art and Science of Low-Carbohydrate Performance</a> The recent <a href="https://journals.humankinetics.com/doi/full/10.1123/ijsnem.2019-0065" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">IAAF Consensus Statement</a> for nutrition in athletes Desert Island Picks: <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Pillars-Earth-Kingsbridge-Ken-Follett/dp/0451488334/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1AVFCYFTKOX8Y&amp;keywords=pillars+of+the+earth+by+ken+follett&amp;qid=1557210582&amp;s=books&amp;sprefix=pillars%2Cstripbooks%2C124&amp;sr=1-1" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Pillars of the Earth</a> by Ken Follet, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Led_Zeppelin_III" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Led Zeppelin III</a>, <a href="https://www.bellsbeer.com/beer/year-round/two-hearted-ale" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Bell’s Two-Hearted IPA</a>Intro music: "Fine Line" by <a href="http://facebook.com/thebloodletters" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">the Bloodletters</a> Outro music: "When I Was Still Young" by <a href="http://iloveyardsale.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Yard Sale</a>

Episode 36 - Tackling Nutrition with Jonathan Clinthorne

Kate Pallardy

The cancellation of the North Face championships meant that many of the top athletes who had been aiming to end their season in northern CA wound up journeying east for the venerable JFK 50 mile, the oldest ultramarathon in the country. The smart money was on previous winner Leah Frost (#3 all-time at JFK) or former Western States champ Kaci Lickteig for the women’s crown. But when the dust settled, it was Beast Coaster Kate Pallardy who scored a convincing win in 6:40. We welcomed Kate into the Pain Cave to talk about her background as a pro triathlete, training on the mean streets of NYC, how she balances homeschooling (and breastfeeding) her kids with training to run fast marathons and ultras, and how she found her passion in sport and in life.LinksKate’s Instagram feedThe country’s oldest ultra, the JFK 50Desert Island Picks: Killing the SS by Bill O’Reilly and Martin Dugard, Mozart: Overtures on Spotify, Harpoon Camp WannamangoIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

The cancellation of the North Face championships meant that many of the top athletes who had been aiming to end their season in northern CA wound up journeying east for the venerable JFK 50 mile, the oldest ultramarathon in the country. The smart money was on previous winner Leah Frost (#3 all-time at JFK) or former Western States champ Kaci Lickteig for the women’s crown. But when the dust settled, it was Beast Coaster Kate Pallardy who scored a convincing win in 6:40. We welcomed Kate into the Pain Cave to talk about her background as a pro triathlete, training on the mean streets of NYC, how she balances homeschooling (and breastfeeding) her kids with training to run fast marathons and ultras, and how she found her passion in sport and in life.Links <a href="https://www.instagram.com/katepallardy/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Kate’s Instagram feed</a> The country’s oldest ultra, the <a href="http://jfk50mile.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">JFK 50</a> Desert Island Picks: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_the_SS" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Killing the SS</a> by Bill O’Reilly and Martin Dugard, <a href="https://open.spotify.com/album/6Nepe0qbFWfvntQox6JErQ" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Mozart: Overtures</a> on Spotify, <a href="https://www.harpoonbrewery.com/beers/harpoon-camp-wannamango-68" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Harpoon Camp Wannamango</a>Intro music: "Fine Line" by <a href="http://facebook.com/thebloodletters" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">the Bloodletters</a> Outro music: "When I Was Still Young" by <a href="http://iloveyardsale.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Yard Sale</a>

Episode 28 - Biking, Babies, and Blasting the JFK 50 with Kate Pallardy

Heidi Armstrong

Look, if we do these things for long enough, eventually we're likely to get injured. And those of us who have been there know the truth: just like training and racing, recovering from an injury is as much a mental exercise as it is a physical one. In this episode we chat with former elite mountain biker and injury recovery specialist Heidi Armstrong, founder of The Injured Athlete's Toolbox, to learn how to deal with and overcome injuries. We talked about Heidi's athletic background and how she developed an interest in recovery (1:30), the terms athletes use to describe how being injured makes us feel (9:30), the role social media can play in recovery (18:00), how an injured athlete can move towards acceptance and recovery (20:10), and how to recognize when we need help dealing with our injuries (32:55). If you're injured, or have been injured, or will get injured (hint: that's all of us!), this is a good listen.Links: The Injured Athlete's ToolboxContact Heidi by emailEMDR therapyDesert Island Picks: When Things Fall Apart by Pema Chodron, Woodface by Crowded HouseIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Look, if we do these things for long enough, eventually we're likely to get injured. And those of us who have been there know the truth: just like training and racing, recovering from an injury is as much a mental exercise as it is a physical one. In this episode we chat with former elite mountain biker and injury recovery specialist Heidi Armstrong, founder of The Injured Athlete's Toolbox, to learn how to deal with and overcome injuries. We talked about Heidi's athletic background and how she developed an interest in recovery (1:30), the terms athletes use to describe how being injured makes us feel (9:30), the role social media can play in recovery (18:00), how an injured athlete can move towards acceptance and recovery (20:10), and how to recognize when we need help dealing with our injuries (32:55). If you're injured, or have been injured, or will get injured (hint: that's all of us!), this is a good listen.Links: <a href="http://injuredathletestoolbox.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Injured Athlete's Toolbox </a><a href="mailto:heidi@injuredathletestoolbox.com">Contact Heidi by email</a> <a>EMDR therapy </a>Desert Island Picks: <a href="https://www.shambhala.com/when-things-fall-apart-3628.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">When Things Fall Apart</a> by Pema Chodron, <a href="https://genius.com/albums/Crowded-house/Woodface" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Woodface</a> by Crowded House Intro music: "Fine Line" by <a href="http://facebook.com/thebloodletters" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">the Bloodletters</a> Outro music: "When I Was Still Young" by <a href="http://iloveyardsale.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Yard Sale</a>

Episode 19 - Overcoming Injuries with Heidi Armstrong

Eric Schranz

The Pain Cave journeys west to the venerable Western States 100, where I was pacing our very first podcast guest, Brian Oestrike. Since I was in town, I was able to finagle a sit-down with the great Eric Schranz of Ultrarunnerpodcast.com. As we recorded the day before the big show, Eric and I spent a few minutes discussing how we thought the day might play out (1:45), before we addressed some of the issues at the forefront of our sport, including the East Coast/West Coast divide (6:45), PEDs and TUEs (10:45), the primacy of WS100 and controversies it engenders (23:00), and the sustainability of growth in the sport (30:40).LinksUltrarunnerpodcast.comEric's recent interview with Jenny JurekThe aforementioned/oft-discussed profile of Coree WolteringImproving youth participationDesert Island Picks: Athletic Brewing Company, Deeper Understanding by War on Drugs, Joshua Tree by U2,Intro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

The Pain Cave journeys west to the venerable <a href="http://wser.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Western States 100</a>, where I was pacing our very first podcast guest, <a href="https://www.gunksrunner.com/paincave/2017/10/16/episode-01-bighorn-mountaineering-altitude-training-and-beer-with-brian-oestrike" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Brian Oestrike</a>. Since I was in town, I was able to finagle a sit-down with the great Eric Schranz of <a href="http://Ultrarunnerpodcast.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Ultrarunnerpodcast.com</a>. As we recorded the day before the big show, Eric and I spent a few minutes discussing how we thought the day might play out (1:45), before we addressed some of the issues at the forefront of our sport, including the East Coast/West Coast divide (6:45), PEDs and TUEs (10:45), the primacy of WS100 and controversies it engenders (23:00), and the sustainability of growth in the sport (30:40).Links <a href="https://ultrarunnerpodcast.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Ultrarunnerpodcast.com</a> <a href="https://ultrarunnerpodcast.com/jenny-jurek-appalachian-trail/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Eric's recent interview with Jenny Jurek</a> <a href="https://trailrunnermag.com/people/the-unexpected-prejudice-of-the-trail-running-community.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The aforementioned/oft-discussed profile of Coree Woltering</a> <a href="https://ultrarunnerpodcast.com/girls-on-the-run/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Improving youth participation</a> Desert Island Picks: <a href="https://www.athleticbrewing.com/beer/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Athletic Brewing Company</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Deeper_Understanding" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Deeper Understanding by War on Drugs</a>, <a href="https://www.u2.com/music/Albums/4007/The+Joshua+Tree" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Joshua Tree by U2</a>,Intro music: "Fine Line" by <a href="http://facebook.com/thebloodletters" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">the Bloodletters</a> Outro music: "When I Was Still Young" by <a href="http://iloveyardsale.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Yard Sale</a>

Episode 17 - State of the Sport with Eric Schranz

Rich Heffron

Since we ran incredibly long, we had to split up our UROY debate into two episodes. Here’s our mens’ discussion of UROY and POY.Beer for this episode: Bissell Brothers Substance and ReciprocalLinksLaura Kline on the 2017 ballotJason Mintz on the 2018 ballotMy final ballot in 2016, 2017, and 2018And, after much consideration and debate, my final ballot for 2019, which differs somewhat from what we talk about in this episodeIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Since we ran incredibly long, we had to split up our UROY debate into two episodes. Here’s our mens’ discussion of UROY and POY.Beer for this episode: <a href="https://bissellbrothers.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Bissell Brothers</a> <a href="https://bissellbrothers.com/beer/the-substance-ale/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Substance</a> and <a href="https://bissellbrothers.com/beer/reciprocal/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Reciprocal</a>Links <a href="https://www.gunksrunner.com/paincave/2018/1/4/episode-06-debating-the-uroy-ballot-with-laura-kline" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Laura Kline on the 2017 ballot</a> <a href="https://www.gunksrunner.com/paincave/2018/12/25/episode-31-debating-the-uroy-ballot-with-jason-mintz" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Jason Mintz on the 2018 ballot</a> My final ballot in <a href="https://gunksrunner.blogspot.com/2016/12/ultrarunner-of-year-my-ballot.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">2016</a>, <a href="https://gunksrunner.blogspot.com/2018/01/ultrarunner-of-year-my-ballot.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">2017</a>, and <a href="https://gunksrunner.blogspot.com/2018/12/ultrarunner-of-year-my-ballot.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">2018</a> And, after much consideration and debate, <a href="https://gunksrunner.blogspot.com/2019/12/ultrarunner-of-year-my-ballot.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">my final ballot for 2019</a>, which differs somewhat from what we talk about in this episodeIntro music: "Fine Line" by <a href="http://facebook.com/thebloodletters" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">the Bloodletters</a> Outro music: "When I Was Still Young" by <a href="http://iloveyardsale.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Yard Sale</a>

Episode 49 - Debating the Mens' UROY with Phil Vondra and Rich Heffron

Dylan Bowman

It may have been a disappointing year for many of the top Americans at UTMB, but US runners came through with podium finishes at TDS, the 121km companion race. We welcome mens’ runner-up Dylan Bowman to the Pain Cave to talk about his fantastic early season (4:45), how he prepares for big mountain races (20:15), his race at TDS (33:00), the carnage at UTMB (49:55), his plans for the rest of the year (61:15), and his Desert Island Picks (65:00).LinksDyaln’s websiteVideo of DBo’s Lost Coast Trail FKTFinish of TDSDesert Island Picks: Graceland by Paul Simon, ‘Til the Medicine Takes by Widespread Panic, Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari, New Belgium Fat Tire AleIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

It may have been a disappointing year for many of the top Americans at UTMB, but US runners came through with podium finishes at TDS, the 121km companion race. We welcome mens’ runner-up Dylan Bowman to the Pain Cave to talk about his fantastic early season (4:45), how he prepares for big mountain races (20:15), his race at TDS (33:00), the carnage at UTMB (49:55), his plans for the rest of the year (61:15), and his Desert Island Picks (65:00).Links <a href="http://dylanbowman.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Dyaln’s website</a> <a href="https://www.redbull.com/us-en/videos/dylan-bowman-lost-coast-trail-vieo" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Video of DBo’s Lost Coast Trail FKT</a> <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylkPcMmVwjs" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Finish of TDS</a> Desert Island Picks: <a href="https://www.paulsimon.com/music/graceland/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Graceland</a> by Paul Simon,<a href="http://www.widespreadpanic.com/discography/til-the-medicine-takes" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> ‘Til the Medicine Takes</a> by Widespread Panic, <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Sapiens-Humankind-Yuval-Noah-Harari/dp/0062316095" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Sapiens</a> by Yuval Noah Harari, <a href="https://www.newbelgium.com/beer/fat-tire/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">New Belgium Fat Tire Ale</a>Intro music: "Fine Line" by <a href="http://facebook.com/thebloodletters" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">the Bloodletters</a> Outro music: "When I Was Still Young" by <a href="http://iloveyardsale.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Yard Sale</a>

Episode 23 - TDS Recap with Dylan Bowman

Mike Siudy

The new King of the Catskills, Mike Siudy, visits the Pain Cave following his incredible FKT of the "Direttissima"--a continuous, 140+ mile tagging of the thirty-five 3500' peaks in the Catskill Mountains. We start with how Mike's background as a climber and hiker prepared him for a career in ultrarunning (2:35), how he became a Gridiot (11:40), Ted "Cave Dog" Keizer's pioneering route (16:25), and how it all went down on Memorial Day weekend (19:45). Plus, we chat about the Barkley Marathons (57:00) and Manitou's Revenge (which Mike co-directs with Charlie Gadol) before digging into his Desert Island Picks (1:13:15).LinksMike's MPF/RNR pageIndustrial Arts BrewingThe original Catskills nightmare, the Escarpment Trail RunOn becoming a GridiotCave DogThe DirettissimaManitou's Revenge and Cat's Tail Trail Marathon, the brainchildren of WTF RacingDesert Island Picks: The Games Climbers Play by Ken Wilson, Southsiders by Atmosphere, West Kill Brewing's Moonfarmer IPAIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

The new King of the Catskills, Mike Siudy, visits the Pain Cave following his incredible FKT of the "Direttissima"--a continuous, 140+ mile tagging of the thirty-five 3500' peaks in the Catskill Mountains. We start with how Mike's background as a climber and hiker prepared him for a career in ultrarunning (2:35), how he became a Gridiot (11:40), Ted "Cave Dog" Keizer's pioneering route (16:25), and how it all went down on Memorial Day weekend (19:45). Plus, we chat about the Barkley Marathons (57:00) and Manitou's Revenge (which Mike co-directs with Charlie Gadol) before digging into his Desert Island Picks (1:13:15). Links <a href="https://www.mountainpeakfitness.com/mike" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Mike's MPF/RNR page</a> <a href="http://www.industrialartsbrewing.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Industrial Arts Brewing</a> The original Catskills nightmare, the <a href="http://escarpmenttrail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Escarpment Trail Run</a> <a href="https://www.mountainpeakfitness.com/blog/2016-catskill-grid-mike-siudy" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">On becoming a Gridiot</a> <a href="http://www.thedogteam.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Cave Dog</a> <a href="https://www.mountainpeakfitness.com/blog/2018-siudy-catskill-35-fkt" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Direttissima</a> <a href="http://www.manitousrevengeultra.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Manitou's Revenge</a> and <a href="https://catstailmarathon.wordpress.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Cat's Tail Trail Marathon</a>, the brainchildren of WTF Racing Desert Island Picks: <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Games-Climbers-Play-Ken-Wilson/dp/0897321987" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Games Climbers Play</a> by Ken Wilson, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southsiders" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Southsiders</a> by Atmosphere, <a href="https://www.westkillbrewing.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">West Kill Brewing</a>'s Moonfarmer IPA Intro music: "Fine Line" by <a href="http://facebook.com/thebloodletters" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">the Bloodletters</a> Outro music: "When I Was Still Young" by <a href="http://iloveyardsale.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Yard Sale</a>

Episode 18 - The Catskill 35 FKT with Mike Siudy

David Roche

David and Megan Roche are one of the power couples in US trail and ultra running today, with seven national championships between them. Not only that, they’re the brains behind Team SWAP and the coaches of some of the most successful athletes in the country, including recent winners of Western States, Leadville, Run Rabbit Run, and more. Not only that, they’re also the authors of The Happy Runner, a new book that just might change the way you view training, racing, and life. David joins us in the Pain Cave to talk about the importance of self-acceptance, how to “let go” of our dependence on results, the principles of his training and coaching philosophy, and much more.LinksTeam SWAPBuy The Happy RunnerDavid’s (dog’s) InstagramDesert Island Picks: Catch-22 by Joseph Heller, Tupac’s Greatest Hits, Brooklyn Cider House (I chose this specific one for him!)

David and Megan Roche are one of the power couples in US trail and ultra running today, with seven national championships between them. Not only that, they’re the brains behind Team SWAP and the coaches of some of the most successful athletes in the country, including recent winners of Western States, Leadville, Run Rabbit Run, and more. Not only that, they’re also the authors of The Happy Runner, a new book that just might change the way you view training, racing, and life. David joins us in the Pain Cave to talk about the importance of self-acceptance, how to “let go” of our dependence on results, the principles of his training and coaching philosophy, and much more.Links <a href="https://swaprunning.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Team SWAP</a> Buy <a href="https://us.humankinetics.com/products/happy-runner-the?variant=13031400833085" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Happy Runner</a> <a href="https://www.instagram.com/addiedoesstuff/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">David’s (dog’s) Instagram</a> Desert Island Picks: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch-22" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Catch-22</a> by Joseph Heller, <a href="https://open.spotify.com/album/6KwC7GaK6R7Uphby8bnmqk" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Tupac’s Greatest Hits</a>, <a href="https://www.brooklynciderhouse.com/ciders/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Brooklyn Cider House</a> (I chose this specific one for him!)

Episode 30 - Running Happy with David Roche

The Legend is back! Finally! After a three-month absence, the Don Draper of ultrarunning returns for our latest installment of This Month in Ultrarunning, the craze that’s sweeping the nation. Phil and I start off with some final thoughts on the 2018 UROY and FKTOY voting (3:30) before turning our attention to the new year. We discuss some recent ultra-related news and headlines (14:30) before a rundown off all the early season action (30:00), including results from the Spine, Hong Kong, 9 Dragons, Tarawera, Bandera, Rocky Raccoon, and more. We finish up with a brief look ahead to this weekend’s second Golden Ticket race, the Black Canyon 100K (51:30).Beer for this episode: Alchemist Holy CowLinks:Our full UROY podcast with Jason Mintz, and my final UROY ballotUltrarunning Magazine’s most competitive races listOur interview with Mike Siudy, the King of the CatskillsKoop’s article on the state of ultrarunning competitionRoss Tucker’s article on Caster SemenyaAnother really good article by Ross on some of those issues and moreRunner attacked, kills mountain lion. (Since we recorded, he’s come forward.)We made a brief mention at the end about my coaching services, including guaranteed entry into Leadville via the LT100 Coaching + Entry packageIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

The Legend is back! Finally! After a three-month absence, the Don Draper of ultrarunning returns for our latest installment of This Month in Ultrarunning, the craze that’s sweeping the nation. Phil and I start off with some final thoughts on the 2018 UROY and FKTOY voting (3:30) before turning our attention to the new year. We discuss some recent ultra-related news and headlines (14:30) before a rundown off all the early season action (30:00), including results from the Spine, Hong Kong, 9 Dragons, Tarawera, Bandera, Rocky Raccoon, and more. We finish up with a brief look ahead to this weekend’s second Golden Ticket race, the Black Canyon 100K (51:30).Beer for this episode: <a href="https://mybeerbuzz.blogspot.com/2018/05/the-alchemist-holy-cow-american-ipa.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Alchemist Holy Cow</a>Links: Our <a href="https://www.gunksrunner.com/paincave/2018/12/25/episode-31-debating-the-uroy-ballot-with-jason-mintz" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">full UROY podcast with Jason Mintz</a>, and <a href="https://gunksrunner.blogspot.com/2018/12/ultrarunner-of-year-my-ballot.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">my final UROY ballot</a> Ultrarunning Magazine’s <a href="https://ultrarunning.com/featured/2018-most-competitive-fields/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">most competitive races list</a> Our <a href="https://www.gunksrunner.com/paincave/2018/7/9/episode-18-the-catskill-35-fkt-with-mike-siudy" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">interview with Mike Siudy,</a> the King of the Catskills <a href="https://trainright.com/how-ultramarathons-will-be-won-from-now-on/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Koop’s article</a> on the state of ultrarunning competition <a href="https://sportsscientists.com/2016/07/caster-semenya-debate/?doing_wp_cron=1550210724.6043341159820556640625" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Ross Tucker’s article</a> on Caster Semenya <a href="https://sportsscientists.com/2016/05/hyperandrogenism-women-vs-women-vs-men-sport-qa-joanna-harper/?doing_wp_cron=1550210780.5094521045684814453125" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Another really good article</a> by Ross on some of those issues and more <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/05/us/man-kills-cougar-mountain-lion.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Runner attacked, kills mountain lion</a>. (Since we recorded, <a href="https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/colorado-man-who-killed-attacking-mountain-lion-bare-hands-said-n971731" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">he’s come forward</a>.) We made a brief mention at the end about <a href="https://www.gunksrunner.com/coaching/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">my coaching services</a>, including guaranteed entry into Leadville via the <a href="https://www.leadvilleraceseries.com/training/run-coaching/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">LT100 Coaching + Entry package</a>Intro music: "Fine Line" by <a href="http://facebook.com/thebloodletters" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">the Bloodletters</a> Outro music: "When I Was Still Young" by <a href="http://iloveyardsale.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Yard Sale</a>

Episode 33 - This Month in Ultrarunning with Phil Vondra

Laura Kline

We’ve talked a lot on the show about the role that the brain plays in determining performance in endurance events, but we haven’t talked so much about how we can actually modify the brain’s response to physical stress in order to improve our performance. In part, that’s because this is a very difficult thing to practically address. Sun Sachs is here to change that. Sun is the co-founder of ReWire Cycling, a tech startup that is aiming to bring “brain training” to the endurance sport masses. Sun joined us in the Pain Cave last month to talk about how is background in cycling helped develop his interest in the mental side of the sport, the work of Samuel Marcora, the lowdown on “response inhibition training” and how he and his partner developed the app that may change how we view mental training for endurance athletes. Then, we welcomed back the great Laura Kline (32:30) to talk about her experience as a beta tester for the app, the changes she’s noticed in her performance, and more.ReWire Cycling just launched a Kickstarter campaign to help secure funding for mass production of the app and the device we talked about here. If this campaign is successful, we may see this come to market in early 2020. Check out the links below and consider supporting them!LinksOur interview with Alex Hutchinson, where we talked a bunch about Marcora and brain training (and Alex’s excellent book)ReWire CyclingThe Kickstarter campaignLaura’s website and her blog post from her most recent race, where she says she drew on the mental training she’d practiced with the appOur last interview with LauraIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

We’ve talked a lot on the show about the role that the brain plays in determining performance in endurance events, but we haven’t talked so much about how we can actually modify the brain’s response to physical stress in order to improve our performance. In part, that’s because this is a very difficult thing to practically address. Sun Sachs is here to change that. Sun is the co-founder of ReWire Cycling, a tech startup that is aiming to bring “brain training” to the endurance sport masses. Sun joined us in the Pain Cave last month to talk about how is background in cycling helped develop his interest in the mental side of the sport, the work of Samuel Marcora, the lowdown on “response inhibition training” and how he and his partner developed the app that may change how we view mental training for endurance athletes. Then, we welcomed back the great Laura Kline (32:30) to talk about her experience as a beta tester for the app, the changes she’s noticed in her performance, and more.ReWire Cycling just launched a Kickstarter campaign to help secure funding for mass production of the app and the device we talked about here. If this campaign is successful, we may see this come to market in early 2020. Check out the links below and consider supporting them!Links <a href="https://www.gunksrunner.com/paincave/2018/3/5/episode-09-exploring-the-limits-of-endurance-with-alex-hutchinson" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Our interview with Alex Hutchinson</a>, where we talked a bunch about Marcora and brain training (and <a href="https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0062499866/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;fpl=fresh&amp;pd_rd_i=0062499866&amp;pd_rd_r=f03ce632-b1d6-11e7-beda-45d3af6a687a&amp;pd_rd_w=JLcFj&amp;pd_rd_wg=C8CFq&amp;pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&amp;pf_rd_s=&amp;pf_rd_r=H13BJCA71H7DS6ER59FV&amp;pf_rd_t=36701&amp;pf_rd_p=1cf9d009-399c-49e1-901a-7b8786e59436&amp;pf_rd_i=desktop&amp;linkCode=sl1&amp;tag=sweascie07-20&amp;linkId=4590064c7378ddec3cb05eb553a5e40d" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Alex’s excellent book</a>) <a href="https://features.rewirecycling.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ReWire Cycling</a> <a href="https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rewirefitness/brain-training-for-athletes?ref=nav_search&amp;result=project&amp;term=rewire" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Kickstarter campaign</a> <a href="https://laurajkline.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Laura’s website</a> and <a href="https://laurajkline.com/2019/04/02/cordillera-mountain-ultra-next-time-train-for-mountains/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">her blog post from her most recent race</a>, where she says she drew on the mental training she’d practiced with the app <a href="https://www.gunksrunner.com/paincave/2018/3/22/episode-10-laura-kline" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Our last interview with Laura</a>Intro music: "Fine Line" by <a href="http://facebook.com/thebloodletters" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">the Bloodletters</a> Outro music: "When I Was Still Young" by <a href="http://iloveyardsale.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Yard Sale</a>

Episode 40 - ReWiring the Brain with Sun Sachs and Laura Kline

John LaCroix

As an athlete, filmmaker, and a race director, Sherpa John Lacroix is a seminal figure in the modern version of the sport of ultrarunning—and one who’s not afraid to ruffle a few feathers either. We caught up with Sherpa John for a fun conversation about his roots in hiking and backpacking (1:30), how he cut his teeth in race directing and may have semi-accidentally started the OCR craze (7:05), his current race series (29:00), ultrarunning as therapy (31:45), commercialization in the sport, his favorite races, and more.Links48, Sherpa John’s film about peak bagging in the White MountainsHuman Potential Running SeriesThe Burro Racing World ChampionshipsDesert Island Picks: Forest and Crag by Laura and Guy Waterman, the Lumineers, Odell Brewing 90 ShillingIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

As an athlete, filmmaker, and a race director, Sherpa John Lacroix is a seminal figure in the modern version of the sport of ultrarunning—and one who’s not afraid to ruffle a few feathers either. We caught up with Sherpa John for a fun conversation about his roots in hiking and backpacking (1:30), how he cut his teeth in race directing and may have semi-accidentally started the OCR craze (7:05), his current race series (29:00), ultrarunning as therapy (31:45), commercialization in the sport, his favorite races, and more.Links 48, Sherpa John’s film about peak bagging in the White Mountains Human Potential Running Series The Burro Racing World Championships Desert Island Picks: <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Forest-History-Hiking-Trail-Blazing/dp/1929173482" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Forest and Crag</a> by Laura and Guy Waterman,<a href="https://thelumineers.com/music/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> the Lumineers</a>, <a href="https://www.odellbrewing.com/beer/90-shilling-ale/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Odell Brewing 90 Shilling</a>Intro music: "Fine Line" by <a href="http://facebook.com/thebloodletters" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">the Bloodletters</a> Outro music: "When I Was Still Young" by <a href="http://iloveyardsale.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Yard Sale</a>

Episode 37 - A Conversation with Sherpa John Lacroix

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