John Stingley

There are many ways of writing ads.Simply stating that your product is good.Giving evidence that it's good.Or making people feel that it's good.Ai could spit out versions of the first two pretty quickly, but it’d struggle on the third.That last category requires a bit of psychology, observation and an understanding of what makes people tick.Bill Bernbach put it this way “It took millions of years for man’s instincts to develop. It will take millions more for them to even vary. It is fashionable to talk about changing man. A communicator must be concerned with unchanging man, with his obsessive drive to survive, to be admired, to succeed, to love, to take care of his own.”So if, for example, you’re Porsche, you could state that your cars are terrific, you could make people aware that every new 911 now comes with a 12-speaker sound system as standard, but saying ‘It’s like children, you can't understand until you've had one' makes them seem so much more desirable.John Stingley wrote that one, plus another bunch just as good.A lot of his work doesn’t get into the nuts and bolts of a product, it steps back from the detail and talks about how it relates to you, like Windsor Canadian Whisky – ‘Fortunately, every day comes with an evening’.I caught up with John recently to pick his brain on this stuff, hope you enjoy it.

There are many ways of writing ads. Simply stating that your product is good. Giving evidence that it's good. Or making people feel that it's good. Ai could spit out versions of the first two pretty quickly, but it’d struggle on the third. That last category requires a bit of psychology, observation and an understanding of what makes people tick. Bill Bernbach put it this way “It took millions of years for man’s instincts to develop. It will take millions more for them to even vary. It is fashionable to talk about changing man. A communicator must be concerned with unchanging man, with his obsessive drive to survive, to be admired, to succeed, to love, to take care of his own.” So if, for example, you’re Porsche, you could state that your cars are terrific, you could make people aware that every new 911 now comes with a 12-speaker sound system as standard, but saying ‘It’s like children, you can't understand until you've had one' makes them seem so much more desirable. John Stingley wrote that one, plus another bunch just as good. A lot of his work doesn’t get into the nuts and bolts of a product, it steps back from the detail and talks about how it relates to you, like Windsor Canadian Whisky – ‘Fortunately, every day comes with an evening’. I caught up with John recently to pick his brain on this stuff, hope you enjoy it.

Episode 47: John Stingley

Allen Richardson

Roy Grace

Roy Grace may well be the best ad guy you've never heard of.But you'll recognise some of his Volkswagen ads below, created at DDB between 1965 and 1986.Whereas most creatives will lean towards a particular medium - Roy was as good in print as he was in tv.Many creatives make their names on one, great account, like a Nike or Volkswagen, Roy did great work across everything; from J&amp;B Rare whisky to Alka-Seltzer, from Chanel to SOS soap scrubbing pads, from Land Rover to IBM computers.Most creatives create their best work with one partner - Roy did great work with dozens of different partners (leading to the phrase 'everybody did their best work with Roy, Roy did his best work with everybody').Scroll through the work below and some of it may strike you as a little basic, especially compared to todays CGI extravaganzas.Take Mobil oil; tin cans on an empty table tops.It doesn't appear very 'creative'.But next time you need a motor oil, my money says you'll buy Mobil.Even if you didn't like the ads, you'll just think it's the best oil.Forty years after they were made.He left DDB with his writer Diane Rothschild, to set up Grace &amp; Rothschild.Shortly after, they hired a young writer called Allen Richardson.Allen went on to create a lot of great work of his own, a large chunk of it at Crispin Porter + Bogusky in their golden years.But Allen has just created different - a website about Roy.Not a post, A SITE!I caught up with Allen recently to ask what the hell was he thinking?(https://davedye.com/2023/04/24/roy-grace-site-with-allen-richardson/)

Roy Grace may well be the best ad guy you've never heard of. But you'll recognise some of his Volkswagen ads below, created at DDB between 1965 and 1986. Whereas most creatives will lean towards a particular medium - Roy was as good in print as he was in tv. Many creatives make their names on one, great account, like a Nike or Volkswagen, Roy did great work across everything; from J&amp;B Rare whisky to Alka-Seltzer, from Chanel to SOS soap scrubbing pads, from Land Rover to IBM computers. Most creatives create their best work with one partner - Roy did great work with dozens of different partners (leading to the phrase 'everybody did their best work with Roy, Roy did his best work with everybody'). Scroll through the work below and some of it may strike you as a little basic, especially compared to todays CGI extravaganzas. Take Mobil oil; tin cans on an empty table tops. It doesn't appear very 'creative'. But next time you need a motor oil, my money says you'll buy Mobil. Even if you didn't like the ads, you'll just think it's the best oil. Forty years after they were made. He left DDB with his writer Diane Rothschild, to set up Grace &amp; Rothschild. Shortly after, they hired a young writer called Allen Richardson. Allen went on to create a lot of great work of his own, a large chunk of it at Crispin Porter + Bogusky in their golden years. But Allen has just created different - a website about Roy. Not a post, A SITE! I caught up with Allen recently to ask what the hell was he thinking? (<a href="https://davedye.com/2023/04/24/roy-grace-site-with-allen-richardson/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://davedye.com/2023/04/24/roy-grace-site-with-allen-richardson/</a>)

Episode 46: ROY GRACE SITE. With Allen Richardson

Adrian Lyne

In 1969, fourteen years after the first commercial aired in Britain, colour arrived.The bar was raised.Ambitious ads could now go beyond the over-lit, creakily acted black &amp; white output from adland.Ads, well, the good ones, started to look like they could've been snipped from a movie.But they were still pretty formal.A couple of years later, a young producer decides he wants to stop producing ads and start shooting themRather than chase the formal perfection, Adrian Lyne sees it as an opportunity to play, experimenting with film and lighting.Pushing and pulling it into places other directors tried hard to avoid.It meant his ads don’t look like theirs.Too much lens flair.Too out of focus. Too much camera movement. Too slow.Too quick.Too bright. Too dark. Too grainy. Too close in. Too far away.They looked great, but he made those writing the best scripts nervous 'Sure it'll look great, but would he shoot the idea?’It meant he shot more for JWT and McCann's than BMP and Collett's.To say some of the scripts he shot were slight would be ridiculous, an outlandish over-claim.But the public doesn’t see the scripts, just the films.And the films are great.They'd leap out from the plodding competition either side of them and making you feel something.The mood is always seductive, but real, like the best moment of a day.By the end of the seventies, the elements that made Adrian’s ads look different had been adopted by the mainstream, a bit like high street fashion stores borrow from the experimental Parisian Couture houses.Even CDP embraced capturing a vibe with visuals and music rather than a storytelling with ads like Fiat Strada ‘Robots’ and B&amp;H ‘Iguana’.But by that time, Adrian was shooting his first movie; Foxes.He followed it with Flashdance, 91/2 Weeks, Fatal Attraction, Jacobs Ladder, Indecent Proposal, Lolita, Unfaithful and last year's Deep Water.We had a lovely chat, hope you enjoy it.

In 1969, fourteen years after the first commercial aired in Britain, colour arrived. The bar was raised. Ambitious ads could now go beyond the over-lit, creakily acted black &amp; white output from adland. Ads, well, the good ones, started to look like they could've been snipped from a movie. But they were still pretty formal. A couple of years later, a young producer decides he wants to stop producing ads and start shooting them Rather than chase the formal perfection, Adrian Lyne sees it as an opportunity to play, experimenting with film and lighting. Pushing and pulling it into places other directors tried hard to avoid. It meant his ads don’t look like theirs. Too much lens flair. Too out of focus. Too much camera movement. Too slow. Too quick. Too bright. Too dark. Too grainy. Too close in. Too far away. They looked great, but he made those writing the best scripts nervous 'Sure it'll look great, but would he shoot the idea?’ It meant he shot more for JWT and McCann's than BMP and Collett's. To say some of the scripts he shot were slight would be ridiculous, an outlandish over-claim. But the public doesn’t see the scripts, just the films. And the films are great. They'd leap out from the plodding competition either side of them and making you feel something. The mood is always seductive, but real, like the best moment of a day. By the end of the seventies, the elements that made Adrian’s ads look different had been adopted by the mainstream, a bit like high street fashion stores borrow from the experimental Parisian Couture houses. Even CDP embraced capturing a vibe with visuals and music rather than a storytelling with ads like Fiat Strada ‘Robots’ and B&amp;H ‘Iguana’. But by that time, Adrian was shooting his first movie; Foxes. He followed it with Flashdance, 91/2 Weeks, Fatal Attraction, Jacobs Ladder, Indecent Proposal, Lolita, Unfaithful and last year's Deep Water. We had a lovely chat, hope you enjoy it.

Episode 45: ADRIAN LYNE

Dave Brown

When I put these blogs together I build up a file.Work for every client goes into a file, that goes into the appropriate agency file, the agency are numbered so that they come chronologically.It sounds a faff, it is a faff, but the only any way I can do it.Anyway, the last file is generally 'P.R' - all the news clippings, interviews and pictures that the individual has accumulated over the years.It helps me get a sense of the interviewee. If you've lead an agency like CDP, I'd expect about 15 to 20 bits.Dave's contains three bits, an ad where he appears with seven others (he looks like he's been  forced at gun point to be there), one that isn't about him, but he's quoted and one where he picks his favourite VW commercials.P.R. just isn't his thing.It's why they call them 'Ridley Scott's Hovis commercials' not Dave Browns.Even though Dave wrote nine.'Hill' gets all the headlines, but watch them all; they're all great.We had a lovely chat, hope you enjoy it. 

When I put these blogs together I build up a file. Work for every client goes into a file, that goes into the appropriate agency file, the agency are numbered so that they come chronologically. It sounds a faff, it is a faff, but the only any way I can do it. Anyway, the last file is generally 'P.R' - all the news clippings, interviews and pictures that the individual has accumulated over the years. It helps me get a sense of the interviewee. If you've lead an agency like CDP, I'd expect about 15 to 20 bits. Dave's contains three bits, an ad where he appears with seven others (he looks like he's been  forced at gun point to be there), one that isn't about him, but he's quoted and one where he picks his favourite VW commercials. P.R. just isn't his thing. It's why they call them 'Ridley Scott's Hovis commercials' not Dave Browns. Even though Dave wrote nine. 'Hill' gets all the headlines, but watch them all; they're all great. We had a lovely chat, hope you enjoy it.

Episode 44: Dave Brown

Michael Wolff

Leap before you look.That's written on the back of Michael's business cards.He prefers instinct over logic; everyone can access to logic, so they all end up in the same place.At Wolff Olins he took a brief to rebrand a paint company, now most would end up with rainbows, peacocks or some colourful iconography.Not Michael.He chose a fox, because 'the owner reminded me of a wily fox'.When Bowyer's needed a new logo, Michael went with a solution that combined illustration and photography 'because it had an amateurish feel, as if Bowyers had done it themselves'.Michael is one of the the most thoughtful designers you could meet, I loved our chat, I hope you enjoy listening to it.

Leap before you look. That's written on the back of Michael's business cards. He prefers instinct over logic; everyone can access to logic, so they all end up in the same place. At Wolff Olins he took a brief to rebrand a paint company, now most would end up with rainbows, peacocks or some colourful iconography. Not Michael. He chose a fox, because 'the owner reminded me of a wily fox'. When Bowyer's needed a new logo, Michael went with a solution that combined illustration and photography 'because it had an amateurish feel, as if Bowyers had done it themselves'. Michael is one of the the most thoughtful designers you could meet, I loved our chat, I hope you enjoy listening to it.

Episode 43: MICHAEL WOLFF

You can’t advertise if you can’t attention.You can’t get attention if you don’t stand out.You can’t stand out without being different.You can’t do different if you think the same.If you think different you’re likely to be different.Being different is a problem to agencies.A BBH Planner once complained ‘the problem with this place is they can’t accommodate black sheep’.Equally, I doubt TBWA embrace disruptive people to create disruptive work.Why hire people who challenge the rules, avoid the easy option and argue their case?The work.Horry is different.Smart.Disruptive.Funny.But because he thought different, his work stood out, so much so that I can remember seeing most of it as a kid.Forty odd years ago.Penelope Keith answering the question ‘How does one spell pence?’A voiceover at the end of an ad saying ‘Made with prime porky worky’, can you be that irreverent?I can remember the whole cinema laughing at the Silk Cut ad, ‘Garrison’, (be careful when you watch it, it was for a 1976 sensibility).Then there’s the 2 minute Fiat Strada commercial, famous after one day.I could go on, but the works below, just look at it.We had a great chat*, hope you enjoy it.(*The China phone system let us down a bit, not the crystal-clear sound quality we’d get if we could’ve done it at Wave Studios.)

You can’t advertise if you can’t attention. You can’t get attention if you don’t stand out. You can’t stand out without being different. You can’t do different if you think the same. If you think different you’re likely to be different. Being different is a problem to agencies. A BBH Planner once complained ‘the problem with this place is they can’t accommodate black sheep’. Equally, I doubt TBWA embrace disruptive people to create disruptive work. Why hire people who challenge the rules, avoid the easy option and argue their case? The work. Horry is different. Smart. Disruptive. Funny. But because he thought different, his work stood out, so much so that I can remember seeing most of it as a kid. Forty odd years ago. Penelope Keith answering the question ‘How does one spell pence?’ A voiceover at the end of an ad saying ‘Made with prime porky worky’, can you be that irreverent? I can remember the whole cinema laughing at the Silk Cut ad, ‘Garrison’, (be careful when you watch it, it was for a 1976 sensibility). Then there’s the 2 minute Fiat Strada commercial, famous after one day. I could go on, but the works below, just look at it. We had a great chat*, hope you enjoy it. (*The China phone system let us down a bit, not the crystal-clear sound quality we’d get if we could’ve done it at Wave Studios.)

Episode 42: HORRY

Ad agencies often claim to have no set style, that each campaign is created from scratch, bespoke for every client.It may be true for the mediocre ones, but not the great ones.Nobody used to confuse the work of AMV, BBH and GGT.The same with Wieden, Chiat and Fallon.Today, stick me in front of a tv and I’d fancy my chances at picking the Droga5.Or spotting the Uncommon on a tube platform.Because although ad agencies use the same ingredients, like chefs, they favour some more than others.We fight the idea of having a certain style in our business, ‘I thought that was one of yours’ can feel like a slap in the face.Why?Most creative industries embrace it.Architects aren't chosen because they have no particular style.Clothes aren't bought because the designer covers the whole map.Does anyone confuse Quentin Tarantino films with Wes Anderson’s?No, that's the point, their style is the attraction.Their philosophy, which has been honed over the years by everything they've consumed, the films, tv, magazines, conversations, experiences, comic books, even ads, that's what you're buying.It's the same with good Creatives.They have likes and dislikes, that creates a style.If asked you to spoof an ad by David Abbott, Tom McElligott, or John Webster, you probably could, because you’d recognise their patterns. Cabell Harris is the same.Whatever the agency or size of budget, he manages to create work that feels personal.Quirky, human with a hint of mischief.Take his One Show 1997 cover, (for my money – the best awards cover annual full stop).One Show Annuals are highly coveted by creatives, sometimes too coveted - getting coveted out of offices and are never seen again.Cabell came up with a great solution: a thief resistant cover.So dull it repels would-be Creative thieves.He spoofed a giant science book - The Giant Book of Spores'.Brilliant insight.Brilliant idea.Beautifully executed.We had a great chat about this and the rest of his work, and, by the end, I was even pronouncing his name correctly. (Cab-ell, not K-ball.)Hope you enjoy.

Ad agencies often claim to have no set style, that each campaign is created from scratch, bespoke for every client. It may be true for the mediocre ones, but not the great ones. Nobody used to confuse the work of AMV, BBH and GGT. The same with Wieden, Chiat and Fallon. Today, stick me in front of a tv and I’d fancy my chances at picking the Droga5. Or spotting the Uncommon on a tube platform. Because although ad agencies use the same ingredients, like chefs, they favour some more than others. We fight the idea of having a certain style in our business, ‘I thought that was one of yours’ can feel like a slap in the face. Why? Most creative industries embrace it. Architects aren't chosen because they have no particular style. Clothes aren't bought because the designer covers the whole map. Does anyone confuse Quentin Tarantino films with Wes Anderson’s? No, that's the point, their style is the attraction. Their philosophy, which has been honed over the years by everything they've consumed, the films, tv, magazines, conversations, experiences, comic books, even ads, that's what you're buying. It's the same with good Creatives. They have likes and dislikes, that creates a style. If asked you to spoof an ad by David Abbott, Tom McElligott, or John Webster, you probably could, because you’d recognise their patterns. Cabell Harris is the same. Whatever the agency or size of budget, he manages to create work that feels personal. Quirky, human with a hint of mischief. Take his One Show 1997 cover, (for my money – the best awards cover annual full stop). One Show Annuals are highly coveted by creatives, sometimes too coveted - getting coveted out of offices and are never seen again. Cabell came up with a great solution: a thief resistant cover. So dull it repels would-be Creative thieves. He spoofed a giant science book - The Giant Book of Spores'. Brilliant insight. Brilliant idea. Beautifully executed. We had a great chat about this and the rest of his work, and, by the end, I was even pronouncing his name correctly. (Cab-ell, not K-ball.) Hope you enjoy.

Episode 41: CABELL HARRIS.

Malcolm Venville

Whoever it's with, whenever I do these podcasts, some personal link seems to turn up.Something I'd forgotten or been unaware of - Paul Weiland was once my landlord, I judged the One Show with Gerry Graf 15 years earlier, David Holmes drew a poster for me 25 years earlier.This isn't like that, this time it really is personal (isn't that the Jaws 2 strap line?).Malcolm and I started out together; he'd shoot pictures for free, I'd write ads for free.The stuff we created helped us inch forward in our careers.When I finally got into my first good agency (SPDC&amp;J), my new boss Mark Denton said 'it was all that extracurricular stuff that got you hired'.I hope you enjoy it.

Whoever it's with, whenever I do these podcasts, some personal link seems to turn up. Something I'd forgotten or been unaware of - Paul Weiland was once my landlord, I judged the One Show with Gerry Graf 15 years earlier, David Holmes drew a poster for me 25 years earlier. This isn't like that, this time it really is personal (isn't that the Jaws 2 strap line?). Malcolm and I started out together; he'd shoot pictures for free, I'd write ads for free. The stuff we created helped us inch forward in our careers. When I finally got into my first good agency (SPDC&amp;J), my new boss Mark Denton said 'it was all that extracurricular stuff that got you hired'. I hope you enjoy it.

Episode 40: PODCAST: Malcolm Venville

R. O. Blechman

The first drawing I saw by R. O. Blechman showed a boardroom table full of people trying to brainstorm.In 6 stages, it showed different people having an idea, the ideas were represented by various forms of lighting, from tiny lightbulb to lamp with shade to a massive chandelier.In the last frame the boss at the end of the table comes up with an idea, it's represented by a miniscule lightbulb.Brilliant observation, very funny.I also loved the naive style of the drawing.It looked like a note one naughty child would pass to another secretly in class.Drawn in a hurry because they were excited.The apparent lack of craft means it feels personal, human.A master draftsman like Leonardo daVinci couldn't improve it.He'd kill it.Over the years I became more familiar with Blechman's lines.Often referred to as a nervous line.Countless ad folk have copied it - Alan Parker, John Hegarty, Gray Jolliffe and dozens more, including me.It just looks so easy (try it).You'll find you can draw squiggley lines in the shape of a person, but they feel like those chalk outlines the police draw around bodies; dead.Bob's not only feel alive, they conjure up multiple personalities with endless emotions.Often with a couple of dots and two or three lines.It's like some kind of magic trick.And whereas most artists get smoother, slicker and more polished over the years, Bob chose to move in the opposite direction - his line becoming more broken and juddery with each year. (Come to think of it, didn't Picasso take a similar route?)This distinctive style meant you could spot a Blechman from the next county.But more important than his lines are his ideas.They cover the map, from the big, weighty issues, like politics and death, to the kind of every day minutiae Seinfeld would go on to cover.His observations are as relevant today as they were decades ago.They're about being human.And whereas the styles of many of his contemporaries timestamp their work, Bob's human, anxious lines don't date.Now 91, Bob still sends a cartoon to the New York Times every week.We had a great chat, hope you enjoy it.

The first drawing I saw by R. O. Blechman showed a boardroom table full of people trying to brainstorm. In 6 stages, it showed different people having an idea, the ideas were represented by various forms of lighting,  from tiny lightbulb to lamp with shade to a massive chandelier. In the last frame the boss at the end of the table comes up with an idea, it's represented by a miniscule lightbulb. Brilliant observation, very funny. I also loved the naive style of the drawing. It looked like a note one naughty child would pass to another secretly in class. Drawn in a hurry because they were excited. The apparent lack of craft means it feels personal, human. A master draftsman like Leonardo daVinci couldn't improve it. He'd kill it. Over the years I became more familiar with Blechman's lines. Often referred to as a nervous line. Countless ad folk have copied it - Alan Parker, John Hegarty, Gray Jolliffe and dozens more, including me. It just looks so easy (try it). You'll find you can draw squiggley lines in the shape of a person, but they feel like those chalk outlines the police draw around bodies; dead. Bob's not only feel alive, they conjure up multiple personalities with endless emotions. Often with a couple of dots and two or three lines. It's like some kind of magic trick. And whereas most artists get smoother, slicker and more polished over the years, Bob chose to move in the opposite direction - his line becoming more broken and juddery with each year. (Come to think of it, didn't Picasso take a similar route?) This distinctive style meant you could spot a Blechman from the next county. But more important than his lines are his ideas. They cover the map, from the big, weighty issues, like politics and death, to the kind of every day minutiae Seinfeld would go on to cover. His observations are as relevant today as they were decades ago. They're about being human. And whereas the styles of many of his contemporaries timestamp their work, Bob's human, anxious lines don't date. Now 91, Bob still sends a cartoon to the New York Times every week. We had a great chat, hope you enjoy it.

Episode 39: R. O. Blechman

‘I’ve just done a Volvo ad with no car in it, it doesn’t get any better than that!’Those were the first I heard on day one at AMV/BBDO.It was the Art Director's way of saying 'it’s good here'.I appreciated the intent, but thought it was weird.Who cares if the ad has a car in it? Is it a good ad?But that's how a certain group of creatives think.For them wins are - running an ad word-free, securing hot director X to shoot their ad, getting the word 'dick' approved in a headline, keeping a logo as small as it was on the initial rough, and yes, whether they can avoid showing the product.Those kind of things can be helpful, but they shouldn't be the goal.But, to them, they're just doing their job, which they see as being creative.Innovating.Breaking rules.Going crazy.‘Fucking around with shit’.Being lead by what's new, different and of course, their own instincts.Clients are viewed as obstacles. Research is for dullards.They often create interesting work, but not much of it runs.Why? ‘The client bottled it!’ or ‘The agency rolled over'.Maybe if they were called 'Communicators' rather than 'Creatives' they wouldn't feel the need to appear so damned creative all the time?Instead of spending all their waking hours with their noses in Japanese animation, Dutch deconstructed typography or surrealist photography, maybe they'd offset if with subjects linked to communication? Rather than just look forward, maybe they'd look back at what worked, what didn’t and why?Maybe they'd ask people outside the creative department what they thought?Maybe they'd see data, psychology and research as helpful?There are people in creative departments like this, I've worked with them.Tom &amp; Walter, Rich &amp; Andy, David Abbott, John Webster, they tend to do better work than the first group.But if you feel your gang is the first group, check out the trailer by South Korean animator Seunghee Kim for her film 'The Realm of Deepest Knowing'. It's cool.If you feel that second group is more you, you may enjoy this chat with Orlando Wood.He's the Chief Innovation Officer at System1, where he forensically observes links between advertising, psychology and the creative arts.We chat about his findings on what's working, not working and why (which have been published with the IPA in two volumes; 'Lemon' and 'Look Out').Hope it's useful.

‘I’ve just done a Volvo ad with no car in it, it doesn’t get any better than that!’ Those were the first I heard on day one at AMV/BBDO. It was the Art Director's way of saying 'it’s good here'. I appreciated the intent, but thought it was weird. Who cares if the ad has a car in it? Is it a good ad? But that's how a certain group of creatives think. For them wins are - running an ad word-free, securing hot director X to shoot their ad, getting the word 'dick' approved in a headline, keeping a logo as small as it was on the initial rough, and yes, whether they can avoid showing the product. Those kind of things can be helpful, but they shouldn't be the goal. But, to them, they're just doing their job, which they see as being creative. Innovating. Breaking rules. Going crazy. ‘Fucking around with shit’. Being lead by what's new, different and of course, their own instincts. Clients are viewed as obstacles. Research is for dullards. They often create interesting work, but not much of it runs. Why? ‘The client bottled it!’ or ‘The agency rolled over'. Maybe if they were called 'Communicators' rather than 'Creatives' they wouldn't feel the need to appear so damned creative all the time? Instead of spending all their waking hours with their noses in Japanese animation, Dutch deconstructed typography or surrealist photography, maybe they'd offset if with subjects linked to communication?  Rather than just look forward, maybe they'd look back at what worked, what didn’t and why? Maybe they'd ask people outside the creative department what they thought? Maybe they'd see data, psychology and research as helpful? There are people in creative departments like this, I've worked with them. Tom &amp; Walter, Rich &amp; Andy, David Abbott, John Webster, they tend to do better work than the first group. But if you feel your gang is the first group, check out the trailer by South Korean animator Seunghee Kim for her film 'The Realm of Deepest Knowing'. It's cool. If you feel that second group is more you, you may enjoy this chat with Orlando Wood. He's the Chief Innovation Officer at System1, where he forensically observes links between advertising, psychology and the creative arts. We chat about his findings on what's working, not working and why (which have been published with the IPA in two volumes; 'Lemon' and 'Look Out'). Hope it's useful.

Episode 38: Orlando Wood.

Interviews with the best advertising, design, photographic, typographic, illustration and film directing talent that are still alive*. (*It's just easier.)

Interviews with the best advertising, design, photographic, typographic, illustration and film directing talent that are still alive*. (*It's just easier.)

STUFF FROM THE LOFT - Dave Dye

Gerry Graf

The best ads appear effortless.As if created accidentally, the result of a chance corridor meeting by people letting off steam on their way to different, grown-up,  serious meetings, probably ones involving charts, numbers and mashed-up new words they get the gist of but aren’t 100% confident of their meaning.The truth is that it’s hard to create work like that, it’s like catching lightning in a bottle.A few creatives have been in the right place at the right time to grab a bolt, barely any catch it on demand.Gerry has been doing it on a regular basis for the last twenty years.Just as impressive; he’s a gooner.We had a great chat, hope you enjoy it.

The best ads appear effortless. As if created accidentally, the result of a chance corridor meeting by people letting off steam on their way to different, grown-up, serious meetings, probably ones involving charts, numbers and mashed-up new words they get the gist of but aren’t 100% confident of their meaning. The truth is that it’s hard to create work like that, it’s like catching lightning in a bottle. A few creatives have been in the right place at the right time to grab a bolt, barely any catch it on demand. Gerry has been doing it on a regular basis for the last twenty years. Just as impressive; he’s a gooner. We had a great chat, hope you enjoy it.

Gerry Graf.

Richard Foster

Read any article on good copywriting and you’ll find the same names appear. David Abbott and Tony Brignull usually battle for the top two slots, Tim Delaney and John Salmon fight it out for third place. But talk to writers about the same subject and another name appears; Richard Foster. Richard is the only one of the five who has worked under the other four. (He may well be the only writer to have worked under the four?) For a number of reasons, the other four are better known. Two have agencies named after them. They were all Creative Directors, (or Chief Creative Officers as we call them today). Each took on the title of Chairman. All four became President of D&amp;AD. With those roles came P.R. Whereas Richard wrote. He wrote for everyone, from 14 year old girls (Lil-lets) to Captains of Industry (The Economist). He wrote for products from 1p up to £100k. He wrote ads that featured in 29 D&amp;AD annuals. He wrote the best section in D&amp;AD’s ‘THE COPY BOOK: How 32 of The World’s Best Advertising Writers Write Their Advertising’. We had a great chat, hope you enjoy it.Dx

Read any article on good copywriting and you’ll find the same names appear. David Abbott and Tony Brignull usually battle for the top two slots, Tim Delaney and John Salmon fight it out for third place. But talk to writers about the same subject and another name appears; Richard Foster. Richard is the only one of the five who has worked under the other four. (He may well be the only writer to have worked under the four?) For a number of reasons, the other four are better known. Two have agencies named after them. They were all Creative Directors, (or Chief Creative Officers as we call them today). Each took on the title of Chairman. All four became President of D&amp;AD. With those roles came P.R. Whereas Richard wrote. He wrote for everyone, from 14 year old girls (Lil-lets) to Captains of Industry (The Economist). He wrote for products from 1p up to £100k. He wrote ads that featured in 29 D&amp;AD annuals. He wrote the best section in D&amp;AD’s ‘THE COPY BOOK: How 32 of The World’s Best Advertising Writers Write Their Advertising’. We had a great chat, hope you enjoy it. Dx

Nick Gill

He’s never tried to become his own brand, hang out at the right clubs or promote himself.He doesn’t bounce from jury to jury, job to job or club to club.And you’ll never read his latest theory on marketing in the trade mags.Nick Gill is currently Chief Creative Officer of BBH, his third agency in 30 years.We had a great chat, hope you enjoy.

He’s never tried to become his own brand, hang out at the right clubs or promote himself. He doesn’t bounce from jury to jury, job to job or club to club. And you’ll never read his latest theory on marketing in the trade mags. Nick Gill is currently Chief Creative Officer of BBH, his third agency in 30 years. We had a great chat, hope you enjoy.

Nick Gill.

Tim Riley

Words.Boy, they’ve really fallen off their perch.They used to be so respected, as were the people who knew how to use them.They could breathe life into cold, dead facts, in their hands ‘our beer costs a lot’  could become ‘Reassuringly expensive’.Better and shorter.Writers would often burn the midnight oil in an effort to get the maximum meaning from the minimum word count.It’s odd, because people have never read more than they do today, Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat, Google, emails, texts, not to forget books, magazines and the odd newspaper.In fact today, there’s no part of the communication process that doesn’t rely on words, including the deck that explains the communication process.But for some reason, the skill of using them effectively is no longer being taught or even valued. Tim Riley has been choosing his words carefully for three decades now, we had a great chat about his time using them at some the best agencies in London.Hope you enjoy it.

Words. Boy, they’ve really fallen off their perch. They used to be so respected, as were the people who knew how to use them. They could breathe life into cold, dead facts, in their hands ‘our beer costs a lot’ could become ‘Reassuringly expensive’. Better and shorter. Writers would often burn the midnight oil in an effort to get the maximum meaning from the minimum word count. It’s odd, because people have never read more than they do today, Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat, Google, emails, texts, not to forget books, magazines and the odd newspaper. In fact today, there’s no part of the communication process that doesn’t rely on words, including the deck that explains the communication process. But for some reason, the skill of using them effectively is no longer being taught or even valued. Tim Riley has been choosing his words carefully for three decades now, we had a great chat about his time using them at some the best agencies in London. Hope you enjoy it.

Tim Riley.

Richard Shotton

One of my favourite tweeters.Always insightful, but more than that, Richard always seems so excited to share each idea or thought.He writes his tweets like they're Breaking News.Richard, like all of my favourite tweeters nowadays share the same job title; Behavioural Insight Bod.(Or some version of.)Traditionally, planners looked at behaviour, but not in the same way, not with such insight and usefulness.Which is weird.Why, when your whole business is built around communicating with human beings would you not have a whole department set up to understand human beings?Well now they're out on the net, sharing observations on how humans work for free, just check out Richard at https://twitter.com/rshotton...Hang on! Hang on! Not now, listen to this first.It’s different from my usual, chronologically structured podcasts, this one's all over the map.You can hear in real time as Richard and I try to get our heads around what's happening with humans and ad agencies today.The result is that there are:a) Far more thoughtful pauses than usual.b) The number of 'Mmmms' is off the charts.c) Julius Caeser features more than Bill Bernbach.d) If you're in the creative department, I'm afraid there's a whole bunch of difficult to pronounce European philosopher's names you'll need to google.But on a lighter note, listen out for Richard crunching his way through a Bourbon biscuit about halfway through.Enjoy.

One of my favourite tweeters. Always insightful, but more than that, Richard always seems so excited to share each idea or thought. He writes his tweets like they're Breaking News. Richard, like all of my favourite tweeters nowadays share the same job title; Behavioural Insight Bod. (Or some version of.) Traditionally, planners looked at behaviour, but not in the same way, not with such insight and usefulness. Which is weird. Why, when your whole business is built around communicating with human beings would you not have a whole department set up to understand human beings? Well now they're out on the net, sharing observations on how humans work for free, just check out Richard at <a href="https://twitter.com/rshotton...Hang" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://twitter.com/rshotton...Hang</a> on! Hang on! Not now, listen to this first. It’s different from my usual, chronologically structured podcasts, this one's all over the map. You can hear in real time as Richard and I try to get our heads around what's happening with humans and ad agencies today. The result is that there are: a) Far more thoughtful pauses than usual. b) The number of 'Mmmms' is off the charts. c) Julius Caeser features more than Bill Bernbach. d) If you're in the creative department, I'm afraid there's a whole bunch of difficult to pronounce European philosopher's names you'll need to google. But on a lighter note, listen out for Richard crunching his way through a Bourbon biscuit about halfway through. Enjoy.

Richard Shotton.

Adrian Holmes

One of the nice things about doing these interviews is getting to know people who you’ve only previously knew though their work.So, when I write one of these intros I try to reflect on what I’ve learnt about the interviewee, to capture the characteristics that have helped them create such great work and succeed in such a competitive business.But as different as they all are, they all share the same characteristic; They care.When they commit, they’re all in.Whether making an ad or a cup of tea they want it to be as good as possible. They keep pushing when others decide ‘that’ll do’.A few years back, a friend of mine wandered into Adrian’s office to leave a message, he found that the desk was filled with random sets of letters and numbers. Some were ticked, some crossed and one had a question mark. He stood there looking at them trying to figure out what fiendish creativity was going on.Until, a few weeks later, when he bumped into Adrian, who’d just taken delivery of his new BMW, it turned out that Adrian had been trying to pick the most visually pleasing arrangement of letters and numbers before committing to a number plate.Then there was the time that Adrian, irritated at having to fold his copy of Campaign to fit into his briefcase, found someone to make him a new, bespoke briefcase, unfolded Campaign size.Also, you’ll notice something different when you look through Adrian’s work, along with the names of the agencies and clients, you’ll also see the year it ran, the art director, director, illustrator, photographer and typographer. You’ll see subheads.You won’t hear the sound of my phone beeping or Adrian not being able to recall a Creative Directors name. (It was edited, re-recorded and fixed.)And at the end of this post you’ll see an article titled ‘My Portfolio’, look closely at the first line and you’ll notice that the word firing’ is fractionally bolder than the rest, that’s because underneath is the word ‘giving’, Campaign had misquoted him, Adrian and his scalpel fixed it.I’m not sure you can learn to care passionately about the details, but if you do, your work be better for it.

One of the nice things about doing these interviews is getting to know people who you’ve only previously knew though their work. So, when I write one of these intros I try to reflect on what I’ve learnt about the interviewee, to capture the characteristics that have helped them create such great work and succeed in such a competitive business. But as different as they all are, they all share the same characteristic; They care. When they commit, they’re all in. Whether making an ad or a cup of tea they want it to be as good as possible. They keep pushing when others decide ‘that’ll do’. A few years back, a friend of mine wandered into Adrian’s office to leave a message, he found that the desk was filled with random sets of letters and numbers. Some were ticked, some crossed and one had a question mark. He stood there looking at them trying to figure out what fiendish creativity was going on. Until, a few weeks later, when he bumped into Adrian, who’d just taken delivery of his new BMW, it turned out that Adrian had been trying to pick the most visually pleasing arrangement of letters and numbers before committing to a number plate. Then there was the time that Adrian, irritated at having to fold his copy of Campaign to fit into his briefcase, found someone to make him a new, bespoke briefcase, unfolded Campaign size. Also, you’ll notice something different when you look through Adrian’s work, along with the names of the agencies and clients, you’ll also see the year it ran, the art director, director, illustrator, photographer and typographer. You’ll see subheads. You won’t hear the sound of my phone beeping or Adrian not being able to recall a Creative Directors name. (It was edited, re-recorded and fixed.) And at the end of this post you’ll see an article titled ‘My Portfolio’, look closely at the first line and you’ll notice that the word firing’ is fractionally bolder than the rest, that’s because underneath is the word ‘giving’, Campaign had misquoted him, Adrian and his scalpel fixed it. I’m not sure you can learn to care passionately about the details, but if you do, your work be better for it.

Adrian Holmes.

I'm guessing you're not as familiar with that name as were with others I've posted?But you'll be familiar with his work.Saatchi's 'Pregnant Man'?BBH's 'Black Sheep' poster?CDP's 'Wolf In Sheeps Clothing'?Yes? All shot by Alan.Because they're such a fantastic ideas, they look as though anybody could've shot them.The images are so simple and clear you can't imagine done them any other way.But each is the end result of a series of choices.Take a look at the casting contacts from the the 'Pregnant Man' ad, the alternative models look ridiculous, but they didn't on January 21st 1970.Look at the 'Black' sheep ad Alan shot for John Hegarty (and Barbra Nokes), just a bunch of sheep with a black one plonked in the middle?Nope.If shot side-on, they'd blend into each other after the first row and not fill the poster.If shot from above you wouldn't see them in that classic, side-on profile.So Alan used his map reading skills (acquired through Rally driving) to find a steep incline, so that the sheep rose up, filling the poster with graphic sheep profiles, almost like cut outs, but better for being shot for real.Then there's the 'Wolf In Sheeps Clothing'; How hard can it be to fling a sheep's pelt over a wolf?Very, as it turns out.Wolves don't like modelling, so Alan borrowed some sheep pictures from a friend, photographer Adrian Flowers, then comped the two together.In Alan's words, he wasn't a photographer, he was  'an adman with a camera', simply trying to bring the ideas to life.He'd learnt how to do this from his years as a top art director at CPV and CDP, getting to work on a regular basis with photographers like Elliott Erwitt, Duffy and Terrence Donovan.We had a great chat, hope you enjoy it.

I'm guessing you're not as familiar with that name as were with others I've posted? But you'll be familiar with his work. Saatchi's 'Pregnant Man'? BBH's 'Black Sheep' poster? CDP's 'Wolf In Sheeps Clothing'? Yes? All shot by Alan. Because they're such a fantastic ideas, they look as though anybody could've shot them. The images are so simple and clear you can't imagine done them any other way. But each is the end result of a series of choices. Take a look at the casting contacts from the the 'Pregnant Man' ad, the alternative models look ridiculous, but they didn't on January 21st 1970. Look at the 'Black' sheep ad Alan shot for John Hegarty (and Barbra Nokes), just a bunch of sheep with a black one plonked in the middle? Nope. If shot side-on, they'd blend into each other after the first row and not fill the poster. If shot from above you wouldn't see them in that classic, side-on profile. So Alan used his map reading skills (acquired through Rally driving) to find a steep incline, so that the sheep rose up, filling the poster with graphic sheep profiles, almost like cut outs, but better for being shot for real. Then there's the 'Wolf In Sheeps Clothing'; How hard can it be to fling a sheep's pelt over a wolf? Very, as it turns out. Wolves don't like modelling, so Alan borrowed some sheep pictures from a friend, photographer Adrian Flowers, then comped the two together. In Alan's words, he wasn't a photographer, he was  'an adman with a camera', simply trying to bring the ideas to life. He'd learnt how to do this from his years as a top art director at CPV and CDP, getting to work on a regular basis with photographers like Elliott Erwitt, Duffy and Terrence Donovan. We had a great chat, hope you enjoy it.

ALAN BROOKING.

Trevor Beattie

'Recorded any new podcasts lately?'I get asked this a few times every week.The askees range from college attendees to retired adman.As I pick the people I interview, they seem as famous as The Beatles to me, but they're often unknown to the askees.After offering up a name and watching a blank expression appear, I reach for a quick handle, something from culture that I think they'll know.Occasionally it's an ad fact; 'Set Up Fallon before his name was lopped off' (Tom McElligott), but it's better if it's something that's escaped from the pages of Campaign and the various awards annuals and seeped into the culture.A good test is whether it would pique the interest of your parents.For example, mine wouldn't be fussed about who founded Fallon, but they might be interested in the bloke who 'Created those Smash Martians and Cresta Bear ads, yet wasn't John Webster' (Chris Wilkins), or the 'Typographer who used to be in a band with David Bowie' (Dave Wakefield) or maybe the guy who 'Shot all those Gary Lineker Walker's ads' (Paul Weiland).Should I bump into another askee before I post this, and they haven't heard the name Trevor Beattie, the problem wouldn't be trying to think of a cultural link they may know, it will be trying to figure out which one is most relevant to the person in front of me.I could create a very bespoke answer.Because Trevor seems to have had a disproportionate amount of brushes with popular culture.Here's a few that spring to mind:He went to school with UB40.Worked for the bloke who wrote the R-Whites 'Secret Lemonade Drinker'.Did those Weetabix 'Skinhead' ads.Got Bob Hoskins to do the voiceover.Hired by the guy who wrote Campari's 'No, Luton Airport'.Wrote those ads where people turn into Bertie Bassett.Created an Irish Tourist Board campaign featuring Wendy Craig and Billy Beaumont.Wrote 'Cats Like Felix Like Felix' in 1989 (it's still used).Discovered Holly Willoughby for Pretty Polly ad.Wrote ‘Hello Boys’.Shot with Hugh Hudson.Did that 'Cometh The Hour' David Beckham ad.Created that F.C.U.K. campaign.Owns the biggest Muhummad Ali collection in the world.Did a Unicef ad with Nelson Mandela.Persuaded Chris Cunningham to direct his first commercial.Shot an ad with David Lynch.Used John Shuttleworth for Yorkshire Tea ads.Rewrote Lionel Bart's ‘Food, Glorious Food’ for McCain’s ad.Pays for hundreds Veterans to go back to the beaches of Normandy to commemorate D-Day every year.Approved 'Double Life'.Invested in 'Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels'.Bought the original Abbey Road sign.Approved Peter Kay’s John Smith's campaign.Oversaw the marketing for Tony Blair and New Labour for three successful General Election campaigns.Created poster for that film 'Layer Cake'.Hired Zowie Bowie.Produced the cult film ‘Moon’.Made a documentary about Rudolph Nuryev.Produced a documentary about the history of the Spitfire.Producing a film about Brian Epstein.Trekked to the South Pole with Buzz Aldrin.Produced a documentary about Thalidomide (Attacking The Devil).With Harold Evans.Going to space in 2020.(At the time of writing he's desperately trying to make a film about Hilda Ogden.)We had a great chat, hope you enjoy it.

'Recorded any new podcasts lately?' I get asked this a few times every week. The askees range from college attendees to retired adman. As I pick the people I interview, they seem as famous as The Beatles to me, but they're often unknown to the askees. After offering up a name and watching a blank expression appear, I reach for a quick handle, something from culture that I think they'll know. Occasionally it's an ad fact; 'Set Up Fallon before his name was lopped off' (Tom McElligott), but it's better if it's something that's escaped from the pages of Campaign and the various awards annuals and seeped into the culture. A good test is whether it would pique the interest of your parents. For example, mine wouldn't be fussed about who founded Fallon, but they might be interested in the bloke who 'Created those Smash Martians and Cresta Bear ads, yet wasn't John Webster' (Chris Wilkins), or the 'Typographer who used to be in a band with David Bowie' (Dave Wakefield) or maybe the guy who 'Shot all those Gary Lineker Walker's ads' (Paul Weiland). Should I bump into another askee before I post this, and they haven't heard the name Trevor Beattie, the problem wouldn't be trying to think of a cultural link they may know, it will be trying to figure out which one is most relevant to the person in front of me. I could create a very bespoke answer. Because Trevor seems to have had a disproportionate amount of brushes with popular culture. Here's a few that spring to mind: He went to school with UB40. Worked for the bloke who wrote the R-Whites 'Secret Lemonade Drinker'. Did those Weetabix 'Skinhead' ads. Got Bob Hoskins to do the voiceover. Hired by the guy who wrote Campari's 'No, Luton Airport'. Wrote those ads where people turn into Bertie Bassett. Created an Irish Tourist Board campaign featuring Wendy Craig and Billy Beaumont. Wrote 'Cats Like Felix Like Felix' in 1989 (it's still used). Discovered Holly Willoughby for Pretty Polly ad. Wrote ‘Hello Boys’. Shot with Hugh Hudson. Did that 'Cometh The Hour' David Beckham ad. Created that F.C.U.K. campaign. Owns the biggest Muhummad Ali collection in the world. Did a Unicef ad with Nelson Mandela. Persuaded Chris Cunningham to direct his first commercial. Shot an ad with David Lynch. Used John Shuttleworth for Yorkshire Tea ads. Rewrote Lionel Bart's ‘Food, Glorious Food’ for McCain’s ad. Pays for hundreds Veterans to go back to the beaches of Normandy to commemorate D-Day every year. Approved 'Double Life'. Invested in 'Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels'. Bought the original Abbey Road sign. Approved Peter Kay’s John Smith's campaign. Oversaw the marketing for Tony Blair and New Labour for three successful General Election campaigns. Created poster for that film 'Layer Cake'. Hired Zowie Bowie. Produced the cult film ‘Moon’. Made a documentary about Rudolph Nuryev. Produced a documentary about the history of the Spitfire. Producing a film about Brian Epstein. Trekked to the South Pole with Buzz Aldrin. Produced a documentary about Thalidomide (Attacking The Devil). With Harold Evans. Going to space in 2020. (At the time of writing he's desperately trying to make a film about Hilda Ogden.) We had a great chat, hope you enjoy it.

TREVOR BEATTIE.

On my way to record this interview a weird thought popped into my head.Weird, because I’ve been reading books on designers for thirty odd years and I’d never spotted it.Also weird, because it’s the opposite of the received wisdom.The thought was this ‘Good designers can work in many styles, great designers have a distinctive style’.As Art Directors and Designers we're taught to put our skills at the service of the brand. Let’s say you’re designing for IBM on Monday and Kleenex Toilet Tissue on Tuesday, your output should be as diverse as the products.You should leave your personal preferences at home.Be led by the problem.You should be a chameleon.Ask anyone, everyone knows this is true.But it’s not.Take my, and any civilised person’s favourite designer; Paul Rand; you can spot his work a mile off, the hand-writing, playful cut-outs and use of space.Herb Lubalin, few use or could use type the way he did, so it’s easy to pick his work out of a line-up.Brownjohn, Vignelli, Fletcher, Gill, Kalman, Scher, you name them, if they are great they’ll have their own style.Their own aesthetic world made up with favourite fonts, colours and techniques.I went to hear Paul Rand talk once, I thought he'd be all precious and delicate, talking about abstract concepts.I couldn't have been more wrong, he was blunt, grouchy and straight-talking, more like a New York cabbie than an Artiste.Anyway, someone asked him if he was worried that he had a style."NO? WHY THE HELL WOULD I BE?I like what I like, other people like what they like, so our work comes out different.My work's unique to Me, their work's unique to them.It’s a good thing."Out taste is shaped by the culture we take in and gravitate towards as we grow up.But when we try to copy it we can't help but add a few dollops of ourselves, which warps it into a new shape.I read an interview with Bryan Ferry where he talked about how much he regretted giving away his influences, he said it made it easier for people to copy him. (I think he was referring to David Sylvian at the time, shows you how long ago it was.)But it's odd, Bryan Ferry copied Smokey Robinson, Ella Fitzgerald, Frank Sinatra and a whole bunch of other folks and it came out Bryan Ferry.I've been trying to think of someone whose work is like Mark Denton's.I couldn’t and still can’t.He once described the issue like this ‘People look at my work and put me in this little box, the thing is, I like it in here.’We had a great chat about Mark’s new book and all the ingredients that make up the fruit cake that is Mark’s brain.Enjoy.  p.s. It's on sale here https://www.coy-com.com/shopIt'll make a great Christmas present.Particularly for kids (If you rip out page 292).Also parents and grandparents alike (again, probably best rip out page 292).And anyone interested in design.Or puerilty.p.p.s. If none of that appeals to you, maybe you have a damp patch on the wall that you need to cover?https://www.jealousgallery.com/artists/mark-denton-esq?

On my way to record this interview a weird thought popped into my head. Weird, because I’ve been reading books on designers for thirty odd years and I’d never spotted it. Also weird, because it’s the opposite of the received wisdom. The thought was this ‘Good designers can work in many styles, great designers have a distinctive style’. As Art Directors and Designers we're taught to put our skills at the service of the brand. Let’s say you’re designing for IBM on Monday and Kleenex Toilet Tissue on Tuesday, your output should be as diverse as the products. You should leave your personal preferences at home. Be led by the problem. You should be a chameleon. Ask anyone, everyone knows this is true. But it’s not. Take my, and any civilised person’s favourite designer; Paul Rand; you can spot his work a mile off, the hand-writing, playful cut-outs and use of space. Herb Lubalin, few use or could use type the way he did, so it’s easy to pick his work out of a line-up. Brownjohn, Vignelli, Fletcher, Gill, Kalman, Scher, you name them, if they are great they’ll have their own style. Their own aesthetic world made up with favourite fonts, colours and techniques. I went to hear Paul Rand talk once, I thought he'd be all precious and delicate, talking about abstract concepts. I couldn't have been more wrong, he was blunt, grouchy and straight-talking, more like a New York cabbie than an Artiste. Anyway, someone asked him if he was worried that he had a style. "NO? WHY THE HELL WOULD I BE? I like what I like, other people like what they like, so our work comes out different. My work's unique to Me, their work's unique to them. It’s a good thing." Out taste is shaped by the culture we take in and gravitate towards as we grow up. But when we try to copy it we can't help but add a few dollops of ourselves, which warps it into a new shape. I read an interview with Bryan Ferry where he talked about how much he regretted giving away his influences, he said it made it easier for people to copy him. (I think he was referring to David Sylvian at the time, shows you how long ago it was.) But it's odd, Bryan Ferry copied Smokey Robinson, Ella Fitzgerald, Frank Sinatra and a whole bunch of other folks and it came out Bryan Ferry. I've been trying to think of someone whose work is like Mark Denton's. I couldn’t and still can’t. He once described the issue like this ‘People look at my work and put me in this little box, the thing is, I like it in here.’ We had a great chat about Mark’s new book and all the ingredients that make up the fruit cake that is Mark’s brain. Enjoy.   p.s. It's on sale here <a href="https://www.coy-com.com/shop" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.coy-com.com/shop</a> It'll make a great Christmas present. Particularly for kids (If you rip out page 292). Also parents and grandparents alike (again, probably best rip out page 292). And anyone interested in design. Or puerilty. p.p.s. If none of that appeals to you, maybe you have a damp patch on the wall that you need to cover? <a href="https://www.jealousgallery.com/artists/mark-denton-esq?" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.jealousgallery.com/artists/mark-denton-esq?</a>

MARK DENTON HAS A BOOK TO SELL!

Tony Davidson

It’s weird, I only interview people whose work I really like, but whenever I lay their work out end-to-end, I’m always surprised at how much better it is than I’d remembered.It could be that there’s much more of it, the sheer consistency of it or that it appears better with the benefit of time and a bit of distance.All three are true of the work in this post.Tony does a good job of shining a light onto how he produced it, hope you enjoy it.

It’s weird, I only interview people whose work I really like, but whenever I lay their work out end-to-end, I’m always surprised at how much better it is than I’d remembered. It could be that there’s much more of it, the sheer consistency of it or that it appears better with the benefit of time and a bit of distance. All three are true of the work in this post. Tony does a good job of shining a light onto how he produced it, hope you enjoy it.

Tony Davidson.

Paul Burke

Nick Angell

Back in the seventies there was a tv show called The Waltons.A depression era family mooched about Virginia's Blue Ridge Mountains dealing with various social and moral issues, it was all very wholesome.At the end, after some member of the family had realised the error of their ways, they'd cut to the usual end device: A shot of their quaint wooden house at the night.We’d hear a voice ‘Goodnight Jon Boy’, gradually we'd hear all the other members of the family shout their goodnights.It was slightly chaotic and you were reminded that there were a lot of Waltons living cheek by jowl in that house.A decade later I was given a brief for The Observer Newspaper - a 48 sheet poster to promote their property section.Bingo! Show that end shot with ‘Goodnight Jon Boy’, ‘Goodnight Mary Lou’ plus another fifty goodnights and names in text, underneath was ‘If you’re looking for a bigger home, take a look in The Observer.’The Creative Directors loved.The Account team presented it.The client bought it.Kind of.They thought it would make a better radio ad.Heartbreaking.Rather than have a big, glorious proof to put in my book, I’d have a little cassette.It got made.It got into D&amp;AD, my first entry.It won gold at Creative Circle, my first award.Maybe it'd worked out best after all?I placed that little cassette in my book.It was the only thing in there that had won an award.I’d show my book to the great and the good at the agencies I hoped to graduate to, without exception they’d get to the end, see the cassette and start zipping the book up.‘I have a radio ad…it’s won an award’ I’d say.'Great' they'd say, continuing to zip.I’d push a bit further ‘Would you like to hear it?’The answers would range from ‘I’ve got a meeting I have to be at’ to ‘No...I’m sure it’s pretty good if it’s won an award.’No fucker would listen to it.My only award winning piece of work.What is it with radio?Why do we treat it like the runt of the media litter?A few months ago I thought it would be good to post something on radio advertising. Partly because I think it'll start to grow due to the booming podcast world, partly because it's the perfect subject matter for a podcast.Whilst thinking about how to go about it, I noticed that one of the best producers of radio ads had just closed up shop; Angell Sound.Owner, Nick Angell, had consistently produced some of our country's best radio ads over the last thirty or so years.But for a decade or so after the whole Walton’s episode (or ‘Waltongate’ as I call it), I’d avoided radio briefs whenever possible, so didn’t feel sufficiently knowledgeable to grill Nick.Fortunately, I have a mate who's more than qualified, Paul Burke, copywriter at BMP/DDB, JWT &amp; AMV/BBDO.I was going to say he's one of the few to truly embrace the possibilities of radio, but I can't think of who the others would be? So maybe he's the only creative to truly embrace the possibilities of radio.It's lead him to set up his own radio production company, teach and promote the joys of radio.Not only that, like the man from Delmonte 'He say yes!'.So here they are.Enjoy.

Back in the seventies there was a tv show called The Waltons. A depression era family mooched about Virginia's Blue Ridge Mountains dealing with various social and moral issues, it was all very wholesome. At the end, after some member of the family had realised the error of their ways, they'd cut to the usual end device: A shot of their quaint wooden house at the night. We’d hear a voice ‘Goodnight Jon Boy’, gradually we'd hear all the other members of the family shout their goodnights. It was slightly chaotic and you were reminded that there were a lot of Waltons living cheek by jowl in that house. A decade later I was given a brief for The Observer Newspaper - a 48 sheet poster to promote their property section. Bingo! Show that end shot with ‘Goodnight Jon Boy’, ‘Goodnight Mary Lou’ plus another fifty goodnights and names in text, underneath was ‘If you’re looking for a bigger home, take a look in The Observer.’ The Creative Directors loved. The Account team presented it. The client bought it. Kind of. They thought it would make a better radio ad. Heartbreaking. Rather than have a big, glorious proof to put in my book, I’d have a little cassette. It got made. It got into D&amp;AD, my first entry. It won gold at Creative Circle, my first award. Maybe it'd worked out best after all? I placed that little cassette in my book. It was the only thing in there that had won an award. I’d show my book to the great and the good at the agencies I hoped to graduate to, without exception they’d get to the end, see the cassette and start zipping the book up. ‘I have a radio ad…it’s won an award’ I’d say. 'Great' they'd say, continuing to zip. I’d push a bit further ‘Would you like to hear it?’ The answers would range from ‘I’ve got a meeting I have to be at’ to ‘No...I’m sure it’s pretty good if it’s won an award.’ No fucker would listen to it. My only award winning piece of work. What is it with radio? Why do we treat it like the runt of the media litter? A few months ago I thought it would be good to post something on radio advertising. Partly because I think it'll start to grow due to the booming podcast world, partly because it's the perfect subject matter for a podcast. Whilst thinking about how to go about it, I noticed that one of the best producers of radio ads had just closed up shop; Angell Sound. Owner, Nick Angell, had consistently produced some of our country's best radio ads over the last thirty or so years. But for a decade or so after the whole Walton’s episode (or ‘Waltongate’ as I call it), I’d avoided radio briefs whenever possible, so didn’t feel sufficiently knowledgeable to grill Nick. Fortunately, I have a mate who's more than qualified, Paul Burke, copywriter at BMP/DDB, JWT &amp; AMV/BBDO. I was going to say he's one of the few to truly embrace the possibilities of radio, but I can't think of who the others would be? So maybe he's the only creative to truly embrace the possibilities of radio. It's lead him to set up his own radio production company, teach and promote the joys of radio. Not only that, like the man from Delmonte 'He say yes!'. So here they are. Enjoy.

RADIO: Paul Burke interviews Nick Angell.

After years of being amazed at what was on the net, I’m now increasingly surprised at what’s not.Three years ago I was trawling for a particular ad of Tom’s, not only couldn’t I find it I could barely find any of his work.Outraged, I gathered together as much of his work as I could lay my hands on and put out a post called ‘Hands Up Who’s Heard Of Tom McElligott’.I was trying to be snarky and ironic, like you may write ‘Hands Up Who’s Heard Of John Lennon?’.Two things happened:1. An enormous amount of people checked it out, 65k.Most had never heard of him, he was being shared and referred to on Twitter and Facebook a ‘really cool pre-internet guy’.2. A few members of his department got in touch to point out that some of the ads featured were not under Tom’s watch, they were overseen by Pat Burnham.Then Pat Burnham emailed me; I opened it cautiously.‘Just wanted to get in touch to say thank you, I really enjoyed your blog post, best, Pat.’It made me feel bad.What can I do to make amends? Interview him, I’d never done it before but it seemed like a good thing to do.I’ve now posted about 50 interviews.So it feels appropriate that Tom is my first podcast interview. He hasn’t given an interview for 25 years and said he doesn’t plan on giving one on the next 25.I Hope you enjoy listening to Tom as much as I did.

After years of being amazed at what was on the net, I’m now increasingly surprised at what’s not. Three years ago I was trawling for a particular ad of Tom’s, not only couldn’t I find it I could barely find any of his work. Outraged, I gathered together as much of his work as I could lay my hands on and put out a post called ‘Hands Up Who’s Heard Of Tom McElligott’. I was trying to be snarky and ironic, like you may write ‘Hands Up Who’s Heard Of John Lennon?’. Two things happened: 1. An enormous amount of people checked it out, 65k. Most had never heard of him, he was being shared and referred to on Twitter and Facebook a ‘really cool pre-internet guy’. 2. A few members of his department got in touch to point out that some of the ads featured were not under Tom’s watch, they were overseen by Pat Burnham. Then Pat Burnham emailed me; I opened it cautiously. ‘Just wanted to get in touch to say thank you, I really enjoyed your blog post, best, Pat.’ It made me feel bad. What can I do to make amends? Interview him, I’d never done it before but it seemed like a good thing to do. I’ve now posted about 50 interviews. So it feels appropriate that Tom is my first podcast interview.  He hasn’t given an interview for 25 years and said he doesn’t plan on giving one on the next 25. I Hope you enjoy listening to Tom as much as I did.

Tom McElligott

Bob Hoffman

I was just about to write ‘the business I joined 30 years ago is unrecognisable today’.But then it occurred to me; that’s bullshit.Take today, either side of writing this I’m working on a global brief.The brand has an existing line that needs to be given new meaning, its felt to be a little too heavy, and possibly a bit esoteric in certain markets.We need to make it lighter, more upbeat and positive.Also, it’d be handy if we could use some kind of visual link to the product, as it’s going to run in a wide range of countries.Overall, they just need to feel cooler and more relevant to a younger audience.That was happening thirty years ago.Sure, the thoughts may end up in some new locations and appear in slightly different shapes and sizes, but the process isn’t that different.There is one big difference though,  the creative bods were way more cynical back then, for example, every element of a brief would be challenged:‘Is that REALLY true?’‘It may be true but people won’t believe it!’.‘Why should anyone believe that?’‘Is there really nothing better to say?’‘That’s two messages, pick one’.‘Why would that make me buy it?’‘Posters are the wrong place for that message’‘That’s way to complicated for TV!’‘Who would be arsed to read about that?’‘They haven’t got much money, let’s spend it all on tv… or posters?’Then digital turned up.It was a challenge for the creatives of my generation, not understanding the channels or tech but understanding why you weren’t allowed to question it.Why weren’t we allowed to take that same cynical approach that we’d taken to all information we’d be given, whether propositions or posters, creatives adopted the stance of super cynical member of the public.We couldn’t do that with digital, if you took that position with anything that involved a single pixel you risked being seen as a ‘dinosaur’.So people adapted, they avoided appearing cynical by using phrases like ‘there’s never been a better time to be in the business’ or ‘I’ve never felt more alive than when I’m being briefed on social media’ or ‘You want to brief me on a digital banner? I feel like I’ve died and gone to heaven’.Questions started being replaced by buzz words, the aim was to get as many into a conversation before it collapsed due to their volume.It created a kind of MaCarthyite environment where most were too afraid to call it as they saw it.

I was just about to write ‘the business I joined 30 years ago is unrecognisable today’. But then it occurred to me; that’s bullshit. Take today, either side of writing this I’m working on a global brief. The brand has an existing line that needs to be given new meaning, its felt to be a little too heavy, and possibly a bit esoteric in certain markets. We need to make it lighter, more upbeat and positive. Also, it’d be handy if we could use some kind of visual link to the product, as it’s going to run in a wide range of countries. Overall, they just need to feel cooler and more relevant to a younger audience. That was happening thirty years ago. Sure, the thoughts may end up in some new locations and appear in slightly different shapes and sizes, but the process isn’t that different. There is one big difference though, the creative bods were way more cynical back then, for example, every element of a brief would be challenged: ‘Is that REALLY true?’ ‘It may be true but people won’t believe it!’. ‘Why should anyone believe that?’ ‘Is there really nothing better to say?’ ‘That’s two messages, pick one’. ‘Why would that make me buy it?’ ‘Posters are the wrong place for that message’ ‘That’s way to complicated for TV!’ ‘Who would be arsed to read about that?’ ‘They haven’t got much money, let’s spend it all on tv… or posters?’ Then digital turned up. It was a challenge for the creatives of my generation, not understanding the channels or tech but understanding why you weren’t allowed to question it. Why weren’t we allowed to take that same cynical approach that we’d taken to all information we’d be given, whether propositions or posters, creatives adopted the stance of super cynical member of the public. We couldn’t do that with digital, if you took that position with anything that involved a single pixel you risked being seen as a ‘dinosaur’. So people adapted, they avoided appearing cynical by using phrases like ‘there’s never been a better time to be in the business’ or ‘I’ve never felt more alive than when I’m being briefed on social media’ or ‘You want to brief me on a digital banner? I feel like I’ve died and gone to heaven’. Questions started being replaced by buzz words, the aim was to get as many into a conversation before it collapsed due to their volume. It created a kind of MaCarthyite environment where most were too afraid to call it as they saw it.

Bob Hoffman: The Ad Contrarian.

Peter Souter

My 7th boss.Former hitch-hiker,copywriter,Frankenstien re-animator,ECD,David Abbott replacement,D&amp;AD President,ITV sitcom creator,Radio 4 drama writer andcousin of Showaddywaddylead singer Dave Bartram.

My 7th boss. Former hitch-hiker, copywriter, Frankenstien re-animator, ECD, David Abbott replacement, D&amp;AD President, ITV sitcom creator, Radio 4 drama writer and cousin of Showaddywaddy lead singer Dave Bartram.

Peter Souter.

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