Cover image of Tokens with Lee C. Camp

Tokens with Lee C. Camp

The Tokens Podcast, hosted by Lee C. Camp, dares to do theology in public, around supposedly non-theological topics like society and politics, whether (or how) to be happy, habits and human flourishing; and music, books, the arts, and poetry. We refuse to be overbearing, while also not pretending like most people don’t care about faith, theology, and the traditions that form us. We promise to be non-partisan – neither right nor left nor even necessarily religious. This is another way of saying we commit to extending hospitality to those with divergent voices and convictions, welcoming poets and authors, theologians and activists, scientists and educators, musicians and writers and even politicians.

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S3E16: The Making of Biblical Womanhood: Beth Allison Barr

Conservative American Christianity insists we must not let the wider culture determine what we do, and yet we see that happening precisely in the patriarchy that characterizes much of American Christianity. So argues Dr. Barr, in her critique of the subordination of women in the church. Plus live satire from Tokens Show’s own Brother Preacher, aka Greg Lee. This and more, all playing off Dr. Barr’s book The Making of Biblical Womanhood: How the Subjugation of Women Became Gospel Truth.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.


3 Jun 2021

Rank #1

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S3E15: Thou Shalt Not be a Jerk: Eugene Cho

Eugene Cho is a Korean-born immigrant to the United States and now activist and author. We discuss his moving and distressing childhood experiences at age six; his journey to Christianity; and how both those realities have given him insight and possibilities for service to the world, as well as put him at odds with both the right and the left in America.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.


27 May 2021

Rank #2

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S3E14: The Soul of Shame: Curt Thompson

Psychiatrist Curt Thompson joins Lee to discuss his book The Soul of Shame. They discuss the mechanism of shame, how it impedes joy, connection, creativity and human flourishing; and how vulnerability subverts shame. Don’t just listen to this one. Take notes, and try it…  But it’s not for the faint of heart.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.


20 May 2021

Rank #3

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S3E13: Fear, Home and the Asian-American Experience: Eugene Cho and Karen Korematsu

In light of the recent rise of anti-Asian-American hostility and violence, we interview Dr. Karen Korematsu, daughter of famed civil-rights activist Fred Korematsu, the namesake of the infamous 1944 Supreme Court Case Korematsu v. United States. Mr. Korematsu, a Japanese-American and American citizen, refused to comply with President Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s executive order which would have forced his re-location to an American “concentration camp.” In addition, we talk to Korean-born activist Eugene Cho, on his moving experiences as an American immigrant. Plus, live musical performances by Buddy Greene and the Most Outstanding Horeb Mountain Boys.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.


13 May 2021

Rank #4

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S3E12: The Gravity of Joy: Angela Williams Gorrell (with Miroslav Volf)

An interview with Angela Williams Gorrell, Professor of Practical Theology at Baylor University, and author of a new book entitled The Gravity of Joy: A Story of Being Lost and Found. Angela recounts her own experiences with the sudden, tragic, and nearly simultaneous losses of three family members; how America’s current crisis of despair can be traced and understood through suicide and addiction rates; and the surprising ways in which gateways to joy can be found in the midst of deep grief; plus, additional commentary from Angela’s former boss at Yale, Miroslav Volf, on the connection between joy and sorrow.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.


6 May 2021

Rank #5

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S3E11: Jesus and John Wayne: Kristin Du Mez

An interview with Kristin Du Mez, Professor of History and Gender Studies at Calvin University and author of a provocative new book entitled Jesus and John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation. In light of the fact that 81% of white evangelicals supposedly voted for Donald Trump in the 2016 election, many have tried to make sense of how “family values voters” could have supported Trump. Du Mez, in contrast, claims that this support of Trump was not in contradiction to, but consistent with, the deeper values of American evangelical Christianity. Regardless of your politics, you will not find this an episode that leaves you without some emotion.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.


29 Apr 2021

Rank #6

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S3E10: “The most polarized issue in the United States”: Katharine Hayhoe

An interview with Katharine Hayhoe, one of the leading climate scientists in the United States, and author of a soon-to-be-released book entitled Saving Us: A Climate Scientist’s Case for Hope and Healing in a Divided World. Katharine and Lee discuss the supposed dichotomy between evangelical Christianity and climate science; the truth about some common climate change myths; and how Katharine, as an evangelical Christian herself, receives hate mail and death threats on an almost daily basis, and yet sees Christians as the perfect people to care about stewarding their responsibility to look after creation.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.


22 Apr 2021

Rank #7

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S3E9: The Collapse of the Biosphere: Peter Harris

An interview with Peter Harris, Anglican clergyman and founder of the highly esteemed Christian conservation non-profit A Rocha International. Peter and Lee discuss why the political polarization of the climate crisis in the United States is more an accident of history than a theological necessity; the ways in which fundamental Christian orthodoxy supports ecological conservation; and how, the preservation, or decimation, of much of the biosphere is dependent upon the choices of evangelical Christians.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.


15 Apr 2021

Rank #8

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S3E8: Doubt Becomes Wonder: Audrey Assad

A frequent guest on Tokens Show, Audrey Assad joins Lee to discuss her new memoir Doubt Becomes Wonder: Embracing the Loss of Everything You Thought You Knew. They discuss healing from childhood wounds, and the consequent navigation of doubt; and Audrey’s experience as a woman in the church. PLUS: two live studio performances.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.


8 Apr 2021

Rank #9

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S3E7: Fighting Dragons and Singing at Loss: Drew Holcomb

Drew Holcomb, whom the Rolling Stone recently called “one of Americana’s Most Popular Stars,” talks with Lee about his surprising road through academia to becoming a singer-songwriter; the tragic loss of his younger brother; and what it’s like to have courage and hope as a songwriter, artist, husband, and father in the midst of the current polarized cultural moment. PLUS! Live in-the-studio-performances of two of his most moving songs: “You Never Leave My Heart” and “Dragons.”See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.


1 Apr 2021

Rank #10