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Leslie Kaminoff- Thoughts, Lessons and Wisdom From 40 Years of Yoga
Leanne Woehlke Well, let's just dive right in. I'd love for you. Leslie. Tell us a little bit about your journey. What was life like for you before yoga? How did you find yoga? Leslie Kaminoff Um, well, I was quite young. So life was like a lot of 19 year olds just trying to live independently, but still with some help from parents. So, we'd have to go back to like 1978 when I was 20, and took my first yoga class I was living in in Manhattan in the East Village at the time. Before it was fashionable when it was actually kind of dangerous. And my father was taking yoga at the Sivananda Center here in New York City on 24th Street. And he invited me to class and I went, and I went somewhere else during final relaxation, some place I'd never been before. And that intrigued me. And so I signed up for beginners course. And by the summer of 1979 40 years ago, I was up in Canada. In at the main ashram, the headquarters of the Sivananda organization is in the back north of Montreal, and I was doing my teacher training there, and it's just been pretty much what I've been doing. Ever since it's pretty much the only career I've ever had, Leanne Woehlke Wow. What would you say? It's, it's funny is this week I actually went and I taught at the middle school, they asked me to come teach. So I taught six classes for them. And as you know, and would expect in Savasana, they get so still. And so you know, Leslie Kaminoff If you do your job, right, and the rest of the class they get still. Leanne Woehlke Right, that's true. But what do you think it is about Savasana and that takes people to that place? Leslie Kaminoff Well, I can speak personally and you know, it might resonate with others, because I don't think I was I was that unusual as a, you know, a 19 year old. I had never laid down before, on a floor or a bed or otherwise with the intention of doing anything other than sleeping or whatever else you do in bed and so the idea of just lying down and intentionally consciously relaxing every part of my body was a brand new experience. So I could say that was the first time I experienced intentional relaxation as opposed to just being tired and lying down and sleeping. So that is life changing was for me. Leanne Woehlke Yeah, I agree. I think it's just a sense of as our lifes get busier and busier, that intentionality drops away, the relaxation is, you know, gone completely for most of society. So it's interesting, this practice of yoga, and I'm in this personal questioning myself, like, what is the future of yoga? What is going to happen and what are your thoughts on that? Leslie Kaminoff Well, something can have a future if it's if it's a thing and yoga is not thing. So, you know, when when a question like that is is posed, it has to be contextualized. To a great extent. I mean, I asked a similar question to my teacher, Desikachar, way back in would have been 1992 when I was visiting India and studying with him. And it was in a very specific context, though, because at the time I was working with a group called unity and yoga, which some people know is actually what turned into the Yoga Alliance. And we were doing a big international conference and inviting all of these teachers and gurus, you know, back then there were still many active gurus running yoga organizations. And we had extended an invitation to Desikachar to attend and maybe even keynote, this event. And well, we shouldn't have called it a keynote because they were There were some fairly big egos there, and it wouldn't have been good to make one person, the keynote and not the others. But anyway, he he politely declined the invitation but offered instead to do an interview with me.Which has been posted on my blog forever. And so at the end of the interview, I asked him this question, you know, I said, since you're not going to be with us, you know, next year when we do this conference, if you know this, I was recording it. And so I said, if this microphone were somehow magically linked to that, you know, event and this gathering of 500 plus people and you wanted to say something to them about the future of yoga, what would you say? And basically, he said, You know, I don't have the right to say anything about the future of yoga, at least for Westerners, and particularly for Americans because I'm not American. I'm an Indian. I'm living here in Madras. I have my own context, I have my own religion, I have my own history and context basically, is what he was saying. And, you know, the, he said, when you're talking about the future of yoga, you're what you're really talking about is the future of mankind. And he said, it was best for Americans to handle the future of yoga in America, and best be handled by people who care about the future of mankind. And that was the most I could get him to commit to say, because, you know, he was very much about the individual and, and, and entering into a connection with the person in front of him and saying and doing whatever was appropriate in that context. So the idea of him saying something that could be appropriate for 500 people he didn't know was not really the best way for him to Give a response. But what he did say was very interesting. Number one, he's not gonna, you know, be pontificating from Madras about what Americans shouldn't shouldn't be doing in the name of yoga. That wasn't his nature. You know, he probably would react the same way I do when I see all these permutations of, you know, goat yoga and pig yoga and rage yoga and beer yoga. And I think I saw your yoga and stripping the other day like burlesque yoga. You know, so all of these things that attach the word yoga, he would, you would have had a reaction, but he also would have had the perspective that, you know, in the context of the time and place where these are being offered, this is, this is what it takes to get certain people on a mat. And if that's what it takes, you know, and if once you're on that map, somebody asks you maybe for the very first time in your life to do what I did when I was 19 years old, which is to lie down at the end of all of this, and intentionally relax your body or at least be conscious of your breathing. You know, if you're doing something like that, for the first time in your life, it has the possibility to absolutely transform you as it did for me. So, while at the same time I can maintain my standards of what you know, I consider to be yoga for me, and how I teach and the people I teach. I can be very conscious of the fact that that's not everyone's context. And some people wouldn't get onto the mat unless there was the prospect of going to class with their dog or having a goat climb on them or being buzzed with beer or weed or being able to curse or whatever. So, you know, I'm pretty open minded about that. Even though I do have my reactions every time I see one of these new things come up. So that's the future of yoga. I think it's As long as we can keep the field free from people who have that reaction and then have the additional reaction of they have no right to do that, and someone should stop them. As long as we can keep the world safe from the yoga police. I think we're okay. And I've been working hard to do that for several decades now. Leanne Woehlke Right it you know, I agree, I think if somebody can go to goat yoga and take a picture with a goat dressed in a Santa or an elf costume, and then they get the idea like, Hey, this is kind of fun. And then they come great. Is that going to be my regular practice? No, because goats pee and I don't really want to goat peeing on me or my yoga mat or my child or any of it. Leslie Kaminoff Well, humans fart and they do that constantly. So you know, where do you draw the line? That's up of someone's body. Leanne Woehlke That's true. Leslie Kaminoff Yes, true. Leanne Woehlke Now talk a little bit you alluded to it about how you have He works diligently to try to avoid yoga becoming regulated. Leslie Kaminoff Hmm. Yeah, um, Well, I think we have to clarify terms. Because people use the word regulation, they throw it around a lot without really understanding what it means. Because I see people out there doing stuff that perhaps they shouldn't be doing. And they point to the fact that Yoga is an unregulated, multi billion dollar field at this point. And it should be regulated to prevent people from, you know, abusing their position and all of that. So, regulation is something that government does. And the power that's wielded by the government, it's very simple to understand the kind of power that the government feels it's a gun period. They wield force. And when they start wielding that force in What up to that point has been a free market, free for quality to rise to the surface and free for ship to sink to the bottom. You know, that's the nature of the market. And the fact that some people don't like the shit doesn't mean that they have the right to use the government's guns to stop them from doing it. There's other things that can help prevent some of the abuses that go on mostly better education, and better peer to peer relationships, better community communication, better feedback mechanisms that could be built into some of the things for example, that the Yoga Alliance is doing. But when, I'm not exaggerating, when I say government is a gun, you know, think of it this way. What's the worst thing that your country club can do to you if you break their rules? You know, you out there kick you up, what's the worst thing the government can do to you? If they, if you break their rules, Leanne Woehlke they put you in jail? Leslie Kaminoff hat if you don't want to go to jail? What if you resist going to jail, and they want you to go? They will, they will send someone with a gun to take you to jail. And that's regulation, period. And, you know, the Alliance is is an example of that. It's the Country Club. You know, you don't have to join. You may complain about who they let in or who they don't let it in or who they keep in. But the strongest penalty they can impose is to kick you out of their club. And they have done that. People have been delisted people have been deprived of using their designation. It's not a huge number with lots of digits in it, but it's not zero. It's probably not 100 it's somewhere between zero and 100. But, you know, but the point is they they're not equipped to be an investigative kind of organization where they can launch, you know, tribunals, about the teachers behavior. You know, people see the Alliance is the first court of appeal for misbehavior in the classroom. They are being very misperceived as to their role. You know, that represents a severe breakdown in community level communication and peer mentorship. And, and a lot of times it happens because of the very human tendency for people to want to avoid conflict. You know, if a teacher is doing something in the classroom, or saying something that you don't like, or if you get hurt you, you have to remember I've worked for a body as a body worker for many, many years treating yoga injury. So I hear these stories. No, so if whatever bad happens in the classroom, it is very unlikely that the student will confront the teacher about it. They may confront management you The studio owner or if it's a club or whatever, you know, they could leave a bad review or whatever, but very seldom directly to the teacher. So we don't have good mechanisms for teachers getting critical feedback or not good enough mechanisms, or enough mechanisms at all, you know, what students are very willing to share with teachers His praise, how much you're changing my life, how great I feel, how much you love your class, how much I love you, you know, the projection that goes on all of that. So there's probably nothing more psychologically damaging for a person then to be exposed only to praise and never exposed to critical feedback. And so that's something we need to acknowledge and and address I do it in my workshops by you know, we've created an online forum that all the students have access to, they can respond anonymously if they want or leave their name and email if they want us to get back to them. And I've gotten some devastating critical feedback on those forums. Stuff that it's really hard for me to hear because it just, you know, puts a knot in my stomach. But that's exactly what I need to hear in order to grow as a teacher and as a human being and to find my blind spots. Right. So, you know, all of that is a conversation worth having. But the important thing to remember is that kind of communication, it's from the bottom up, it's, it's, you know, community based. It's it's ground level, peer to peer mentorship, all of those things. When people look at the Alliance wanting to impose discipline or standards from the top down. They're really, really missing the point the lions can't do that. Even if it's decided to do that. It would be really, really bad at doing that. They're bad at returning emails. You know, they can't even return a goddamn email, how are they going to become, you know, this kangaroo court of yoga justice. It's just it's a gross misperception you know of what their role is. Leanne Woehlke I think that there's a sense of I've heard, you know, from teachers, I've heard from students that they graduate from teacher training, and they ask, well, do I need to get certified with Yoga Alliance? And the first thing I say is, wait a minute, it's not a certifying body. Let's clarify what it is and what it isn't. And that conversation, but I think this concept you raise about community based feedback is really interesting. Leslie Kaminoff Yeah. It was part of my recommendations as one of the advisors on the standards review. You know, my, my recommendations went far beyond the scope of the one committee I was on, which was scope of practice. I just, you know, I basically just did a brain dump on everything I've been working on the last 30 years since before the Alliance existed. You know, I was in the room when we came up with the standard. So I was on the ad hoc committee. So I've been involved in this conversation before there was an Alliance. So I've seen the art of how this has gone, you know? So yeah, Unknown Speaker If people need a little bit of context for this conversation, not just a knee jerk reaction like, Oh, you know, the Alliance should be doing more to prevent this this sort of thing. What they do well, the thing the Alliance has done well is the advocacy work, which is keeping the government out of the business of regulating yoga, they have been successful in every state in which they have gone in, to fight whatever stupid measures were being proposed by these, you know, second post secondary or vocational training boards that each state has to, to pull yoga into their, into their control. They've been very successful and the reason they have resources in order to do that very necessary work as well as they do, because of the registry is the registry is not as you pointed out, it's not a certification. You know, the only one who can this person who can certify Teachers, whoever trained them, and that's important to remember. Leanne Woehlke Right? And you know, and I think that it's, it's a good point to even for, for students to understand. What does that mean? Obviously different schools have different credentials, different experience, different history, etc. Let's switch gears a little bit. And let's talk about, you know, you mentioned obviously, you've worked with bodies for years and trained so many teachers. Leslie Kaminoff There's one hanging on the wall behind me. Can Leanne Woehlke I see it? I love it. Leslie Kaminoff Yeah, sometimes it doesn't work out well for the clients and just Leanne Woehlke at least there's not multiple bodies. Leslie Kaminoff Yeah, well, you haven't seen the closet. Have you? Leanne Woehlke That's true. That's true. Um, talk a little bit about your you're known for the breath and the practice. What do you feel is the purpose of the breath and the practice? Leslie Kaminoff Is that what I've known for most people Just think I'm the guy that wrote the book. Leanne Woehlke Well for anatomy, I mean, but but really, I think I know when I had you talk with my teachers and training last year that you really clarified so much for them about the breath and the importance of it and so say a little bit about how did you come to that understanding? Leslie Kaminoff Oh, um, well, I can I can point to certain milestones along the way. And certainly, just teaching yoga At first, the Sivananda system of yoga, you know, in the late 70s, early 80s, I was on staff with you and and I was directing the Los Angeles Community for them for a while in the early 80s. And teaching many, many classes and then many bodies in the class many different bodies in the classes. And I developed my interest in anatomy just from that from observing all the differences and similarities that exhibited in terms of them being able to do or not do or to what extent they could do or not do this, this basic 12 postures I was teaching them. So having the format be the same for all the classes was a great way to get started, because all the differences showed up because I was teaching the same postures all the time. And of course, you know, my curiosity started just in my own body with my own practicing before I was teaching, like why can I do this? Why can't I do that? You know, how can I do something tomorrow that I'm not able to do today? And then just extending that into that same question into the students I was working with so but the the the turning point for the breath part of it and because you know, breathing is part of the Sivananda sequence, there's breathing it's taught you know, you teach Kapalabhati you teach abdominal breathing, you teach alternate nostril breathing. You teach people to coordinate their breathing with the sun salutation. The Surya Namaskar and the beginning of class. But the turning point really came. It had to have in 1981, shortly after I went to Los Angeles to run that community for Sivananda. And I met someone who was to become a lifelong friend, who was just sort of starting out himself, Larry Payne, who I'm sure you know, who's one of the founders along with Richard Miller of IAYT, the International Association of Yoga Therapists, and he was just getting his center started in Marina Del Rey, I was in West Hollywood at the time it but we, we met had a visit and he had just gotten back from traveling around India visiting all of the famous yoga teachers that he could he tells very colorful stories about that trip. And it seemed like the person who was most impressed with was was the one name he mentioned that I had never heard before, and that was Desikachar. And I said, Well, what makes this guy so special? And all he would tell me was "it's all in the breath." That's all he would say. I think that's all he could say at that point. I don't know how much more than that he understood even after having met him. But it stuck in my mind. I forgot the name Desikachar. I didn't hear the name again until around 1987 you know, like maybe six years later. But this thing that is all in the breath really stuck with me. So I started paying more careful attention not just to how I was breathing in my practice, but how all the students were breathing. And that just led me into that particular focus when I was learning about anatomy to learn more about the diaphragm and the ribcage and so by the time I met Desikachar in 1988, I had all of these observations and sort of tricks that I had learned about different ways to coordinate the breath with movement. So I had a lot of questions. But in between that I did start working in the field of Sports Medicine and bodywork and dance medicine. When I moved back to New York after living in LA, I worked for an osteopath, who treated dancers in LA, I was working for a chiropractor treated athletes. And one of the, this osteopath I work for was quite well known and he attracted some very, very good people to work with him and, and one of them was a woman named Irene Dowd is very well known in movement circles here in New York and internationally, really. And she used to work there couple days a week, and I remember and she doesn't remember saying this to me. I asked her years later, and she not only didn't remember saying it to me, she didn't remember ever having said anything like this. She said it didn't sound like her, but I know, I know who it was her, I have a good memory. And I was asking her some questions about the diaphragm about, you know, what's the right way to breathe in this movement and that was later breathing that movement and in a That. And she just she said this word. Well, if you do it that way, you're going to lose the postural support of a diaphragm. And I was like, What? diaphragm postural support. It's a breathing muscle. But it made total sense was it just something clicked when she said that was like, Wow, there, this is a muscle of postural support, not just something that gets air in and out of your body. And and so that was in my mind. You know, just a couple years later, I met Desikachar. And so all of this stuff just was just in this brew, this mix of trying to figure things out and that's the guitar. I didn't really have any anatomical answers for me. The practice the philosophy, everything else, yes. And in spite of the fact that he was trained as a structural engineer, before he took up the serious study yoga with his father Krishnamacharya. He did not in western anatomical terms really have a lot to offer me by way of explanation when I was asking all these questions, so I just kind of kept limping along and figuring it out on my own. And, you know, here we are, you know. And what I did learn about the anatomy, though, did reinforce everything I learned from Desikachar, in terms of the brilliance of the system and the brilliance of what his father came up with, by recognizing the intimate connection between the movements of the spine and the movements of the breath, and how you can play with that to produce different effects in different people for therapeutic purposes. So that all went into the mix with the fact that, along with all this, I should mention them in the context of this whole period of my life, from then until now really, is that I've had my hands on thousands of people, feeling their bodies, feeling their breath, helping them with their breath, you know, working on deep muscles like the psoas and the diaphragm. And all of that. So there's a lot of kinesthetic learning that's come through my hands about this as well. So everything's influencing everything else. Leanne Woehlke So why do you think we're seeing more injuries in yoga? Leslie Kaminoff Just more people are doing yoga. I mean, just quantity of injuries or percentage of people practicing who are injured. So how did you mean the question? Leanne Woehlke You know, I don't have hard numbers, it seems as if, and I don't know if it's with ramped up frequency or as the population of people practicing increase, we're getting people who maybe have some predisposition, or prior underlying injuries or, issues going on. It seems you know, a lot of shoulder issues, even in my own studio, and I'm pretty careful about anatomy and not pushing it too hard. I, you know, I tell them, there's nothing enlightened about putting your foot behind your head. So unless you really feel you need to do that this other poses probably gonna do the same thing Leslie Kaminoff It's more about getting your head out of your ass instead of putting it up there. So, go go with that one if, you know, feel free to use that one, Leanne Woehlke Right, that's that's much more useful. But it seems like I've had a couple of students who were, you know, sound bodies end up with back issues with a bulging disc, and, you know, I could look at it and say, okay, it's a mom who's had a new baby, so maybe she's holding her body in a certain way. She's pretty hyper mobile in some areas, too. Leslie Kaminoff Yeah, well, first of all, I don't know that there are more yoga injuries as a percentage of numbers of people practicing. We can speculate we, you know, I don't know who has those numbers or if they even exist. Because and it's true with just about anything. You know, is it better reporting? Is it the fact that Social media amplifies things. Who knows? I do know, though, that if you look at the arc of the last 30 years or so, the styles of yoga that have become more prominent, that have really played a key role in popularizing it, in our culture, and in particular in fitness culture are the more intense forms of yoga. You know, the more athletic vinyasa, hot vinyasa styles, all of it really comes from Ashtanga. The influence of Pattabhi Jois's Ashtanga vinyasa style of teaching can't be overestimated. Because that's what made the gyms want teachers. You know, that's what made people want to make money training teachers. You know, back in the mid 90s, when we first started turning our attention to like the standards that might go into training and teacher, there was a lot going going on right then but the main thing in the market and by the way, nobody up to that point had attached the word industry to yoga. You know, 10 years prior to that, you know, in the early to mid 80s nobody attached the word industry to fitness either. Fitness became an industry in the 80s thanks to Jane Fonda in the in the VHS and you know the development of things like Nautilus and you know, the Olympics being in Los Angeles and the running craze that already been going on. There's a lot of things that came together in that place in time where I happen to be in LA in the 80s, working in sports medicine with Olympic athletes. And Jane Fonda students who were getting injured down the road because we were just down the road from her studio, right. So you know, I saw that coming together in the fitness world. Then 10 years later, I saw the fitness world start swallowing the yoga world. But there was a tremendous demand for teachers for yoga teachers at that time and not enough supply. And it's hard to imagine that now 30 years later when actually the opposite is the case. Right? So we kind of created a monster with these standards. Because we handed people the recipe for Look, here's how you teach a teacher training. Here's the subjects, here's the hours and boom, you know, but there was a definite need in the marketplace at that time. And it was being filled by people like Beth Shaw. You know, who, who you know who Beth is, right? Okay. Yeah, yeah, she created yoga fit. And, and so, you know, it was brilliant. I mean, she's a brilliant businesswoman. You know, she's going to the clubs and saying, hey, look, you want yoga in your clubs, I can give it to you next week. Just give me your aerobics teachers for the weekend. Because they already know how to teach group fitness, they're already on your payroll. You don't need to hire new people. Just give them to me. In a weekend, they'll know how to teach yoga class. That's how yoga fit was born. And it was brilliant. You know, but it made people like me and colleagues of mine and folks who had been coming to unity in yoga conferences and who would start to go to Yoga Journal conferences. And when they started doing that, it's like, you know, we're looking at this and going, you know, I don't know off the top of my head how many hours it takes to, you know, reasonably train a yoga teacher, I'm pretty damn sure a weekend isn't enough. And that's that's the, you know, one of the questions we sat down with and we came up with the 200 and the 500 things, you know, so and so this this boom has just been happening it's it's definitely showing signs of leveling off. There's all indicators right now that, you know, the unlimited growth model that a lot of studios and the bigger yoga businesses, you know, we're, you know, basing their growth model on this expected increase year over year demand for what they're offering. You know, it's it's been pretty saturated right now and businesses are dropping like flies. I mean, Yoga Works delisted its stock a couple of months ago and, you know, they're there and in trouble closing studios left and right. And, you know, there's just a lot of market saturation right now. And the last thing that business needs, by the way is dealing with a unionized labor force, do you really want to put the final nail in your coffin just unionize the teachers that'll do it in a heartbeat. It's a whole other conversation. But it's back to the injuries. You know? We like we were not comfortable as humans, I think, not having a story that explains things, you know. I mean, that's, that's what religion is for, you know, it's not always the best explanation or an accurate one, but it's a story and it explains things, you know. And, and, and so, you know, we see all of this happening, and it shows up on social media. And it's all these conversations. And, frankly, some people have found a way to make a living being scaremongers about all of this. You know, I won't mention any names William J. Broad, but um, you know, there's others I can mention who you know, with probably all good intentions are really decontextualized what's actually happening in in yoga, you know, because here's one factor, right? Yoga makes you more sensitive to what's going on in your body, you start paying attention. Right? It's a double edged sword. I always tell people Yoga is this double edged sword. The good news is that it makes you more sensitive to what's going on in your body. The bad news is it makes you more sensitive to what's going on in your body. Right? It's the same thing. You know what what can be a tremendous benefit can also be a problem, you start noticing things. Plus, yes, you do have some more intense, forceful styles of yoga being taught, and you have people doing adjustments on people they shouldn't be doing. I can't tell you how many stories I've heard of people, clients who have come in to get bodywork and the stories of how they got injured in class by a teacher shoving or pulling or yanking or cranking on them and you know, it does happen and because We are more aware of all of these issues now they're being discussed. They're being incorporated into the way we train teachers, the way we educate teachers and the public, you know about these classes. But again, that's sort of the leveling, balancing nature of a free market. You know, when we come up with problems, as an industry or as individuals in the industry, there's no one thing is called the industry. It's just people working in the same field. But they're, they're individuals, but the ones who are responsible and want to offer good instruction, good training for teachers, the one the ones who want to have good information will seek it out and, you know, eventually, you know, things will get better. And, and, look, it's human nature to just push and find your limits by pushing and learn how to respect them by pushing too far. You know, I have been that I have been that person in class, I've been that person in my own practice, I didn't need it, I didn't need another teacher in the room pushing me at a certain point in my yoga career, to just want more and more and more, you know, more awesome as more range of motion, more variations, more intensity, whatever. And I was young and my body was young, and it was able to withstand it without too many negative long term consequences other than some arthritic knees, which, frankly, it probably gotten started even before I started yoga by you know, playing basketball on concrete when I was younger, right? So, you know, we we live and we learn to sometimes we learn by by hurting ourselves, it's unfortunate, you know, if we have to learn by letting other people hurt us. And I think that's, that's something that, you know, I've been working really hard in my workshops and, you know, whatever I whenever I write things or do interviews to you know, say look, we need to need to have this conversation. Because it is a it is a problem. But I don't know that as a percentage of people practicing, it is that much higher than it used to be. I know people back in the old days in, you know, the old classical hatha yoga days before the Ashtanga stuff before the athletic stuff who really mess themselves up just by doing really long headstands plows, shoulder stands, you know, real problem like real problems with their spine and their spinal cord and their spinal nerves from the way they've damaged their necks and their spines from you know, the classic kind of intense, hatha yoga things that we were doing back in the day. So each each style has its own risks. Leanne Woehlke So if if we're looking at it, what is the the right way then to have individualized treatment or individualized treatment but practice and instruction so that you're getting what's right for your body or Leslie Kaminoff Well, yeah, when you say individualize, it's not necessarily one on one. I can individualize a practice, in a group of any size. All I have to do is make sure that each student is being offered the agency an opportunity to conduct their practice as an inquiry into what's working for them. And there's a very simple formula for that, you know, and it's not proprietary, you know, I share it all the time in my workshops, and I teach using this method is very simple. It's called, try this. Now, try that and see what you notice. Right? And so, in order to use this, though, you have to not be attached to the idea that there's only one right way to do things and there's only one right result that you'll get when you do that thing, right? Because that's certainly not true. So Turning the practice into an inquiry is far more powerful, and ultimately safe than just administering cues and corrections. And comes from the standpoint that if you do it the correct way that I'm teaching you, you will not get hurt, because that's that's utter bullshit. That does not, that's not true, even a little bit. Leanne Woehlke Yeah, I think there's also no way to know what's going on inside someone's body or what their joint actually looks like, unless you have an X ray. Somebody could have really, you know, shallow hip sockets or really open hip sockets and the pose is gonna look entirely different and feel very different. Leslie Kaminoff Absolutely, absolutely. The main thing is to get the student to be a little more attentive to what's going on inside their own bodies, you know, and not rely on the teachers eye or experience or knowledge to keep them safe. You know, there's this there's this whole, you know, conversation about well, the teachers gonna come in and they're because they're a good teacher, and they have this experience or they or they wrote an anatomy book, you know, they're going to know more about what's going on in your body than you do now, from a certain perspective, that's true because I can see your body in a way you can never see it. Because not because I'm smart, because I'm not you, you know, that's a given. So, on the one hand, yes, I have access to information about you that you don't have. It doesn't mean I know what's going on inside or what's healthy or safe for you. I just know what I just know what I'm seeing. And what I'm seeing is something you can't see. So we have to balance that reality with the equally true reality that the only person who can ever know ever has a shot at knowing what's going on inside someone's body is themselves. And a lot of people don't want that agency. They don't want that responsibility. They want someone else to do it for them. And, you know, you know, I saw this happening with Desikachar all the time where, you know, he was very skillful at deflecting that and handing the conversation back to the student and not letting any of that stuff stick to him. And for that reason some people found him infuriating. They found him evasive, secretive, they would think, or just plain annoying. But what he was really doing was not accepting that responsibility for someone else's experience. And, not be willing to inject his answers into someone else's context. Because, you know, it may not be for them, it may not be right for them. And that's how he that's how he handled me. 100% Leanne Woehlke And that's how you handle your students. That sounds like Unknown Speaker Well, I do my best. I mean, I'm not Desikachar, but it's good to have a good role model. Leanne Woehlke Tell me about what is a situation where you've just been so inspired by the practice, Unknown Speaker by the practice by, like something that happened on my mat or in the In working with Desikachar, or Leanne Woehlke Either one, it could either be on your mat as a personal experience, or that you've seen, you know, as a witness of a student. Leslie Kaminoff I think some of those inspiring moments, literally inspiring moments are when I'm working with someone else. And sometimes it's in a group situation in a clinic or workshop where I'm demonstrating on one person and people are watching. Because then, well, let me talk about that. Because, you know, this happens all the time in the private one on one work, but when it's especially inspiring, when there's a group of students observing me work, to illustrate something we're learning about breathing with with someone's body. And usually I'll ask for the person who has the you know, worst breathing in the room, asthma or, you know, tendency toward panic attack or whatever it is who you know who's got a breathing issue, so I want them And almost always, there's this moment when I can figure out how to get them to relax and stop trying to breathe. Get out of their own way and just let the body take a natural breath on its own. Once all the effort and you know trying to breathe goes away, here's this breath that comes in. In those moments, I like to think of myself as a breath midwife, you know? Or doula breath doula, perhaps I don't know. And it's very moving. It's very moving. It's always a very emotional moment, not just for the, for me and the person I'm working with, but sometimes even more so. For the people that are watching. It's very, very evocative. It moves something that's like, there's this. Sometimes it's a simultaneous... again, good news, bad news thing that happens the moment like that. And the good news is, of course I, you know, this, this breath comes in, it's like wow, this, this can move, you know, I'm feeling space where the breath has just moved, that I have not felt for who knows how long that's the good news. And then right on the heels of it sometimes not always, but sometimes is, Oh, now I can remember why I stopped breathing that way in the first place. Right? Because there's something there's something that arises in the context of our development that has to do with what we call affect regulation, how we learn how not to be overwhelmed by our internal emotional body states that we do with our breathing, we learn to regulate our affect with how we modulate our breathing spaces. And sometimes we can go through an entire lifetime without ever knowing that it's missing or knowing that we can recover. But when it does happen in these moments, it's incredibly inspiring. Moving for everyone who's present. So those are some of the best moments. And that happens all the time in private one on one work, but when it's sort of kind of amplified in a room of people who are just willing to be present and supportive of that happening, those are those are special moments and maybe some people who'll be watching us have been in one of my workshops, when we've done that and can definitely, you know, relate to to what I'm saying. Leanne Woehlke It reminds me of this year, I did a session with someone that does some of Donnie Epstein's work. And he says, Leslie Kaminoff Yeah, I know I know Donnie Epstein is Yeah, Network. He invented Network Chiropractic. I spoke to him on the phone once back in the old days when he's first getting started. Yeah, Leanne Woehlke and it's now it's a lot of it. They just, it's done with breath. So to me is I thought like, okay, I'll experience it and you're on a table and moving the body in certain ways, with the breath. And you hear these stories about people that had long holding patterns and releasing it. So it's, you know, I was like, well, we kind of do this in yoga. Leslie Kaminoff Well also talk to Michael Lee, because that's the whole basis of Phoenix Rising. Mm hmm. You know, and to to be involved in a skillful dialogue process with someone, as you're supporting them in these poses and positions. And, yeah, the, the tremendous breakthroughs people can have in this context is very inspiring. So yeah, if you ever get to talk to Michael about it, you'll you'll, you'll hear a lot of stories like that. Leanne Woehlke Right? How do you think we do we need to emphasize the breath more in yoga. Leslie Kaminoff I don't know who's we? Leanne Woehlke Teachers in general, I mean, I think it's, it's there. But in this inquiry, it's almost as if there's, ah... again, as I'm kind of looking globally at the industry and thinking like, Okay, we've got this huge push for Asana. Hmm. But if we go back into looking at, you know, an Asana without breath really isn't yoga? Leslie Kaminoff Well, Desikachar would say something like that, for sure. That was definitely his take on it is that, you know, well, he would be very practical. He'd say, you know, because we look, we'd be in the room, we'd be working at whatever practice he gave, and very simple practices, but you know, you're amongst your fellow yoga teachers or yoga therapists or whatever, and you're, he's there, and you want to impress them. So you start working a little too hard, you know, and he'll bust you on that. And so he would say things like, "If what you're doing in your asana practice is so physically demanding that you're losing a connection with your breath. You have ceased to do yoga." Yeah, and it's not that it's necessarily a bad thing that you're doing because you could be working out, you could be working on your strength, you could be working on your flexibility you could be, you know, learning some gymnastic trick. And you know, that's, that can be nice. And you know, it's not like it's bad. But if you want it to be yoga, according to this view, you have to select what you're doing and how you're doing it in such a way so as to be able to stay connected with this process of inhaling and exhaling. So if you're asking me if I think there should be more of that, well, yes, please. I mean, you know, I make my living teaching that. So I'd be stupid to say no. But again, I'm I have to also say, well, it's a free market out there. And just because someone wants to attach the word yoga to something, which by that definition, perhaps isn't, because the breath is who knows where, you know, they still may have a transformational experience because of whatever they're doing because, look whatever you're doing, whether you're focusing missing it on not, you're going to be breathing. You know, and, and breathing tends to want to find more space in your body, whether that's your intention in the practice or not. There is an intelligence which I don't think is too strong a word to use, about how your breath will help you find space for your breath eventually. And so even if it's not an explicit part of the practice, if what you're doing is called yoga, and it even slightly resembles asana practice, and it even has a little bit of this idea that you can bring your mind and your body and your breath together and you can relax a little bit. You know, because the word Yoga is attached to it that can lead you it can lead you into other experiences, it can lead you maybe to look it up on Wikipedia, you know, and you know, you're going to get An idea of the history and the philosophy and all of that, you know, it's not like this information is in hiding. It's, it's pretty available. You know, at least I've done my best to make it available and a lot of other people have and, you know, it's not it's not a Secret Doctrine. No One No One there's no secret super secret breath practice out there, that you know, you have to go to a cave to learn or, or, or sign an NDA before taking well actually there that does exist. But anyway, you know, some people know what I'm referring to. But it's these aren't huge secrets, really. It's the science is there, we're starting to understand things about, you know, polyvagal theory and vagal tone as it relates to breathing cycles. And, you know, the tako method is out there. There's just, there's a lot of available information and it's not that hard to find and if you have one of these experiences, and one of these classes and, and and the word Yoga is attached to it. It's like okay, maybe I can do it without the goat now, you know, and and find someone that that is going to explore it a little more depth perhaps if I'm willing to go to a little more depth. So yeah, more breath please. And you know, we people who care about as long as we keep doing our jobs, you know people find us Leanne Woehlke what's next for you as a teacher? Leslie Kaminoff Well not blowing the deadline we're working on for the third edition of yoga anatomy. That would be nice. You know, we've made the deal with our publishers Human Kinetics to come out with the third edition by around this time next year just in time for holiday gift giving in 2020. So Amy Matthews and I just had a meeting this morning we have you know, we were just regularly scheduled to keep tabs on each other as we work on the new material. For this third edition, which is really going to be much, it's going to be a lot more different from the second edition. And the second one was from the first and there's a lot of improvement in the second edition. But we said this this morning, the second edition was really what we wanted the first edition to be. But we ran out of time and budget and just patience from our publishers because we blew so many deadlines, getting the first edition out. So the second edition is really what we wanted the first edition to be, if we had had those resources. The third edition, we're reimagining a lot. And it's based on 10 years of experience. You know, from the last time we really worked on the book, and there's gonna be new illustrations and expanded chapters, new chapters, lots more information within the awesomeness so that's what's next after that is a book I've been meaning to write for since before yoga anatomy. So that's like 14 years. And it's more about yoga and my personal story. What I learned with Desikachar and my other teachers weaving in some of the things from the yoga sutras that I learned from Desikachar, and from my years as a body worker, and it also includes some of the stories I told her about, you know, the sweep of like the industry that I've been able to witness in the last 40 plus years. So hopefully, people will find it interesting, at least, I find it interesting to tell the stories, and it'll be interesting to get them, you know, out of my mouth, in my head and onto this computer here. So we'll that'll be the next thing. And I think also, upgrading my online material is a big priority for me. And that'll have to happen in the next couple of years too, because the stuff that we put up has been up for a while and I'm not teaching all those things the same way anymore, and I want to make sure that we're putting the best quality stuff out there. The fundamentals course actually is I don't think we need to mess around with that. That's the one that people use to provide the anatomy hours for the teachers. courses, and that's doing pretty well. It's the other ones principles and practices that I think are in need of some, some fresh perspective. So that's enough and travel, you know, you got all this travel happening or got a big tour to Australia coming up next year or we're headed off to Europe in a week. So, you know, I'll keep going where the gigs are squeeze it all in? Leanne Woehlke Right? You know, I think that you've got such I'm excited for your books. I think I have the first version of Leslie Kaminoff yoga, green or purple, Leanne Woehlke purple. Leslie Kaminoff That's the second. That's the second edition. Leanne Woehlke So I look forward to the third and then your story about your own personal story. You've got such a rich history. And I love kind of getting to the people that have been practicing for four decades and have a broader history as opposed to just Instagram followers. Leslie Kaminoff Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's something you know, I mean, who could have anticipated social media and all of that back in the day, but, you know, it's just the evolution of things and people get information any way they can and, you know, build careers any way they can. But the one thing that's inevitable is everyone is going to age. You know, the people who are lucky enough to age, right? People complain about aging, I always remind them it really it beats the alternative. And so eventually, these more therapeutic ways of working the gentler ways of working, you know, as my friend Jay Brown says, gentle is a new advanced, that's his big thing, right? And there's a real truth to that. So, you know, however you got started, whether it's on Instagram or you know, with a dog or a pig or a mug of beer, or you know, joint too, Whatever, you know, if you if you stick with it, you're going to be doing it in an ageing body that's going to need to you need to adapt what you're doing to accommodate that. And, you know, hopefully I'll stick around long enough to get the next couple of generations to start looking at these things and just keep the conversation going. I mean, no, right now, I mean, for me, I always say this, you know, I said, how when I was younger, it was more and more and more and more, you know, how much can I do? In my practice? Now at age 61. Now, it's pretty much how little can I get away with? Leanne Woehlke I hear you I turned 50 next month, and so looking at how my practice has changed over time. It's definitely very different than when I was in my 20s Leslie Kaminoff Sure, yeah. And you know, you're busy now. I mean, you know, I don't have the free time I had in my 20s I'm living in an ashram anymore. I got shit to do The Yoga is for maintaining my ability to do my shit. You know, I, do my yoga to live my life not the other way around. And that's the perspective you get when you know if you stick with it long enough and your body ages and I hope my body will continue to age because that means you know, I'll still be here Leanne Woehlke if you could put on like one billboard or one web page, your message for the entire world summed up happy Leslie Kaminoff Don't be an asshole. I don't know. Wait a yoga message? Leanne Woehlke Whatever your messages, Leslie Kaminoff whatever my message is. Leanne Woehlke Yeah. Leslie Kaminoff Well, I would I would say something like I think one of my favorite quotes that I came up with, which ties a lot of different things together. But it uses Asana as a model for that, because that's what, that's the most accessible entry point. For the vast majority of people into my world, you know, I would just stick with the thing I say, which is that "Yoga is not about doing the asanaa. It's about undoing what's in the way of the asanas". And that's a deep statement and there's some deep teachings there. And that's a perspective I got from from my teacher. And it's really profound if you think about it that way. Because it's not like what we're looking for is somehow in the asana and we'll get it once we perfect it and unlock the benefit and there it is for us. It happens along the way every step along the way. When this thing that you weren't able to do yesterday, you're able to do a little bit better today because it showed you whatever was in your system that was in the way. So Yoga is fundamentally about uncovering and dealing with obstructions, you know? And the practices help us do that. Because like, when we learn a new way to breathe, what it's really doing is helping us unlearn our old way of breathing. So these these subtle little understandings, I think that sort of shift the perspective and allow us to get a lot more done with a lot simpler, a lot simpler practice. Yeah, the simpler the practice is the more profound relationship you can have to it. And that's something he forces you to recognize. Because the complicated shit is not available so much anymore. Leanne Woehlke That's true. Leslie Kaminoff Yeah, I've been cursing a little bit. I hope you're not gonna bleep me. Leanne Woehlke No, you're totally fine. Right. Leslie, how can people catch up with you? Leslie Kaminoff Oh, um, my personal website is Yogaanatomy.org. And that's two A's yoga anatomy, yoganatomy is someone else with the one A. So, yoga anatomy.org. And there's links to everything I do there my schedule and you know, things I write and blogs and online courses and what not. So that's the easiest way to find me. So thank you for asking. Leanne Woehlke Absolutely. And then I think you're also or you were, I think you're taking a little break while you're traveling, but you're also on ompractice. Leslie Kaminoff I was where were we evaluating how and when to reengage with live teaching on the internet. It was a really fun experiment. I really enjoyed doing it. But it when these tours started happening with the timezone difference and the changes and just scheduling wise, there were definitely times where I would have been up in an airplane. Or you know, be have it be three in the morning somewhere. For the regularly scheduled time that we that we started in the summer, when I was taking a break on Cape Cod for a month, and you know it, we kind of got it going, they're able to maintain a regular schedule. So it was it was fun. It was great. I love what they're doing with ompractice. And just, for me, to be fair to the regular students who would want to keep showing up. I just wasn't able to maintain the regularity of it because of all the traveling to the other side of the world and time zones and stuff. So we'll see. Just stay tuned. You know, if anyone's interested in that, it'll certainly be announced on in a blog post or on my web page or whatever. If we do the live teaching on the internet, the courses have been on the internet, those are on demand those those have always been there. Leanne Woehlke Well, wonderful. Thank you so much. I so appreciate you taking time I know you're so busy. But I hope that this conversation reaches those who will benefit And you're an amazing teacher. So thank you for your contribution to the world of yoga. And to me personally, I really appreciate it. Leslie Kaminoff Thank you. That's very kind. It's lovely to hear you say that and happy to have had the conversation. Thanks for inviting me. And yeah, just send me the link when it's out and I'll circulate it in my circles and, you know, get it out there. Leanne Woehlke Awesome. Thanks so much, Leslie. I appreciate it.
9 May 2020
Dave Buck- Using Fear As A Treasure Map To Play Life- The CoachVille Way
Leanne Woehlke Well, I am thrilled to have Dave Buck here who is the head of Coachville, which is a fantastic coaching school with us. Today, Dave Buck Oh, yeah, Leanne Woehlke yeah. Well, you just talk to us a little bit about Dave Buck Hi, everybody, first of all, great to have you here ready to play? Mm hmm. Leanne Woehlke Do you tell us you've been in this coaching industry for so long? Dave Buck Yes. True story! Leanne Woehlke Can you talk a little bit about how you got into coaching? Dave Buck Of course, that's a, I'll give you the short version because that's a very interesting and long story. That's super fun. But the basic, the basic gist of it is in my 20s I was this rock and roll entrepreneur, great business going and I really got into personal growth, okay. And I was like going all the seminars, reading all the books, I was big at lamb bark, alright, like landmark education, which probably a lot of your listeners know about. I was doing all the classes programs there. And then I had a life incident. Okay, which I which, which one of those incidents? We'll talk about that a little bit more later, but I had this big life incident happen more like, everything just went wrong. Business started floundering marriage fell apart, lost the house. Only thing I was left with after this major debacle was me and my car. Okay, so I basically lived in my car for a year. So when I was living in my car, I was really hanging out at the New Age bookstore all the time, because it was warm in there. And I was totally into this stuff. And I started doing all this visualization. But what happened was this is the clincher was when I was I was doing all these programs at Landmark and Landmark Education was really the first place that talked about coaching from a life perspective. Okay, that was a big innovation that was happening around the Landmark world. So they had this deal where if you had done a program and you wanted to do it again, you could do it for free if you were a coach. So I had no money because I was living in my car and I was homeless. So I was like, I can do all the programs again for free by coaching. I'm like, yeah, I'm totally in. So that's how it all started. I started coaching all these landmark programs. And then Thomas Leonard, who worked at Landmark for Warner Earhart, he left Landmark as an employee and got the bright idea, hey, this coaching thing can be a profession. Right? So he left Landmark started the life coaching profession. I heard about it from a friend at Landmark. I didn't know Thomas at the time yet, but a friend of mine through Landmark said hey, Dave, life coaching is a profession now you can totally get certified. I was like what? That is all me. This is like in the 90s. And so it was like from I'm living in my car to coaching because I could take the classes for free to becoming a professional life coach that happened in the 90s. And then I met Thomas Leonard and I became best friends. That was a whole long, crazy story. But that's basically how it is. It's like, life sometimes gets these takes these crazy curves. And then you find yourself in just the perfect place at the perfect time. Like not by you know, wasn't my own doing. It was like, other than my own doing of, you know, crashing my first business, but I could take responsibility for that. It's called not marketing, but that's a whole. That's a whole different story. But yeah, so that's how I got into life coaching. So in 1997, I was one of the first life coaches. And since I had been in business since I was like 12 years old, doing a whole different kinds of businesses, the business part actually came pretty easy to me. So what happened? There was, I was one of the very first life coaches to create a multiple six figure income just on the phone talking to people sitting by the lake talking on the phone to people, and you know, having a six figure business. So there were other life coaches that were starting to get into that six figure realm, but most of them were doing their big money in corporate. I was actually a personal life coach, making six figures and I was one of the first ones in the world. So that's kind of how it all that's the that's the shortish version of the story. Leanne Woehlke It's I have to ask what was your first business when you were 12? Dave Buck My first business when I was 12, was cutting grass. And then, then I moved on to delivering newspapers, babysitting for kids, cleaning houses, just like everything. I was like young entrepreneur around Downtown. That was pretty much me. Leanne Woehlke I love it. I'm noticing that there's, like this entrepreneurial gene almost, is inbred in people. And it It helps them. Yeah. It helps them just figure things out. It's almost as I call it, like a scrappiness. Dave Buck Yeah. It is a scrappiness. It's true. It's true. But you know, what, a big thing for me just in terms of the whole business thing that that we were talking about was I, I slammed headfirst into this wall of fear. And I didn't know it at the time, that you know, this is in my late 20s, when my computer software business, which was going really great just slammed in, you know, slammed into a wall. And the thing was, I had built all of my businesses on referrals. So it was all personal relationship marketing. And then my computer software company got to a point where like, the referrals weren't really coming anymore. I was going to have to start doing more marketing, like traditional marketing, like getting out and doing things in the world to get business. And I just couldn't do it. I just could not at that time, I just slammed into this wall of fear, which I've since, you know, figure it out, but, and then it got into once I got into the coaching, I started slamming into that same wall of fear, but this time I had a coach. So made a big difference. And then I figured out what this big wall of fear was all about. And then from there. My business really has flown since then, with lots of, you know, bumps along the road. I don't want to see you know, hasn't been smooth sailing all the way for sure, because life's not like that. But I was able to figure out what the big wall of fear was and then play with it and move and move on. Leanne Woehlke Now that's so interesting, because what I know about you and even going through the CoachVille program, I think one of the The the methodologies that you have is your inner freedom method. Dave Buck Yes. Leanne Woehlke So was that born out of your own experience? Totally. Dave Buck Let's just say yes. Yeah. Because I haven't been in the personal growth field for so long. And, and then coaching people the basic methodology of around fear, what I was, you know, when early in the field of coaching and and personal growth was what just get over it. Just get over it. Like just do it. Like just do it just get over it, pout, you know, don't you know, crush your fear. And what I found out was that's just a terrible method. Like it just doesn't work for most people, like a very few people can overcome fear with the just get over it. approach. And even then, those people who can when you're younger, when you get a little older, it doesn't work anymore. Like you just can't get over it, because it's deeper and it's more at a non conscious level. And it's, it's, it's tricky. So that's where the inner freedom method came from from it came from my own experience and then also coaching. So many, you know, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people who are slamming headfirst into fear and then saying, well just get over it, I would cheerlead the crap out of them. And it just didn't work most of the time. So I started looking for answers. And that's how the inner freedom method was born. And it's a it's a it's really a deep, it's a deep coaching. The inner freedom method is this deep way of exploring what's happening to you within you at a non conscious level and it's exploring the body and exploring your relationship also, with supermind, which is this human potential energy field that we're all connected to? And if you start if you learn how to read what's happening in your body and what's happening around you, you can start connecting the dots and figure out what is this fear about. And that was the big turning point was, instead of trying to fight fear, overcome fear. You look at your fear as your friend. And you realize that and what I realized in coaching so many people was almost any fear that a human being has is a social fear. There's not many physical fears, like there's no Tigers chasing us, you know, in the woods, so it's related to other humans is that so it's a social fear in some way. And all social fear is learned. And the thing we learn to fear the most is our own unique power. Because that's where we get we we get in trouble. early in life just by playing and being ourselves, and then trouble happens, and then you learn Oh crap, either consciously or mostly non consciously. Whenever I do this thing I do, people don't like it so I'm going to stop doing that. And gradually over time your unique power gets buried under fear now that's a good news bad news story. So then the good news is once you know that what you're really afraid of is your own unique power when you start to feel afraid. With the right coach you can use follow that fear like a treasure map and, and and rediscover your unique power. So that's what I do. Leanne Woehlke And I've got to just say is I did an inner freedom session with somebody yesterday. Nice and it's it's turning out to be, I think, my favorite methodology. And it's so different than anything anyone else is doing. Can you describe Little bit of it seems like everywhere I see nowadays people are calling themselves coaches. Dave Buck Sure. Leanne Woehlke And so can you describe a little bit about the differences and types of coaches and how CoachVille and what you do is like you gave you a little sense, but how is it so different than? Dave Buck Well, I mean, first of all, coaching is awesome, right? So, of course, a lot of people want to do it, right. That's one thing at the same time. You know, like, if you if you think of like basketball, for example, there's coaches at all levels of basketball. You know, the little league basketball team has one of the parents coaching who maybe did a weekend basketball coaching course. And now they're coaching their little league basketball team. Fine. That's okay. Right? That's okay. Hey, but they're not professionals. Right? That's the thing. This is where it gets clunky. You know, it's, you know, a little Basketball Coach doesn't expect to get paid. And then you have high school basketball coaches, they don't get paid too much, but they get paid a little bit. And then you have college coaches and then pro coaches and there's levels. And so life coaching is the same thing, right? So you just want to be respectful of the levels. And so the higher level of professionalism is going to be someone who's got more professional training and as gone through more experiences to prove and show that they can coach at a professional level. So I have no qualms with someone going to a weekend coach training program and then coaching their friends or coaching some colleagues at a you know, pro bono or low fee rate. But if you want to be a true professional and coach at a high level, then you need to go for professional training and even in in all the sports. You know the basketball coaches, soccer coaches, you can coach your little local team with a little bit of training, but even people who played at a high level, they have to go to the full multiple week, multiple month training programs to coach at a professional level. That's all it is. It's just, it's just a it's just about levels. So at CoachVille we, we teach people how to coach at the highest level, we know we're a full certified program with the international coach Federation, which just basically means we jumped through a crap ton of hoops to be able to say, we did that. And there's value in that. It's like, sometimes you think, oh, man, we're jumped through a lot of hoops. But that's part of what distinguishes professionalism in most fields is you just have to jump through the hoops and show you can do certain things at a certain level. And you know, I've taken lots of training programs, and over the course of my life, and a lot of training programs are pretty bad. Right And so, to be an ICF accredited program, you really Have to document that you know, what you're doing as a training program, and it's rigorous and it's hard. And you know, it just basically shows, hey, our training program is really professionally done. And we help people become truly professional coaches. And that's, that's what we do. Leanne Woehlke That's a great distinction. I love your analogy about the different levels of coaching. Because it is I think, you know, people as they're thinking, well, gosh, maybe I should have a coach. And I've had someone say, like that they had worked with a coach and they didn't get the results they expected. Mm hmm. But I don't think they knew what they were buying. Dave Buck Correct. That's right. That's right. And, and that's, that's, that is really the big thing. That's where it's like, okay, you could say I'm a basketball coach. Okay. Are you a little league basketball coach, or are you like coaching, you know, the San Antonio Spurs, like, what, you know, they're all basketball coaches. So, you know, it's just about what is the level of the coach and so really This what this is about, I think in terms of professional coaching is it's it's about when when you have when your dream is big enough, then you're going to look for a big enough coach. You know who's who's ready to walk with you because coaching is walking with or playing with. This is a big thing about coaching. You know, what makes coach Phil unique, I feel also is there's a lot of coach training programs that have come into being over the last 20 years that have sort of, they, they what they call coaching is like this hybrid model of like social worker, and project manager. It's like, let's talk about your problems. And then we'll come up with an action plan and I'll manage you in action. Right, so it's like this social worker project manager combo plan, but that's not cool. teaching that is not coaching, but that's what most people do, right? But real coaching in any way anything whether you're coaching basketball, or piano, or dance or any kind of coaching is simply play together to play better. Have a great coach is going to play with you. Practice with you so that you can play better. And that brings up the big question that everyone always asks, well, how do you play life? And that's really what we've what we specialize in it CoachVille is talking about you can play life. In fact, you can and you can practice life. You can practice life, and then go out and and play for real. And by practicing, you get better you get confident, and then when you do the things that you want to do for your dream. You do them with confidence with capability with energy because you've done before you've practiced that a bunch of times with your coach. So that's the big thing. You know, when you're talking about doing an inner freedom session, that's a way of playing with someone using their visualization using their body awareness. You're like, in them in there with them, you're walking with them. It's not Oh, tell me about your day and tell me about your problems. It's like, okay, we're going to dive into your mind through your imagination together. And we're going to explore this situation and figure out where the fear is coming from. That's some serious deep coaching stuff. Like that's the real thing. So, yeah, that's and so that's really the big thing. And CoachVille, what we're all about is played together to play better. Leanne Woehlke I think it's there's also a transformational aspect in my experience of CoachVille, that it's helping people to then be able to go on, it's not just managing the tasks. Dave Buck That's right. Leanne Woehlke That's which I think was was such a great distinction when I experience that, can you talk about how you came up with the concept of play, which is part of CoachVille, Dave Buck it really is. I had a big, you know, awakening, you know, life is a sequence of awakenings. And as you as you know, so this was about 12 years ago now, so I started CoachVille with Thomas Leonard in around 2000. And then in 2003, Thomas died of a heart attack, and I inherited CoachVille, and I was running it and it was hard, and all sorts of trouble. And I was in all these lawsuits, it was like just a crazy time I ended up with a wicked case of post traumatic stress disorder. So a lot of you knows a lot of really deep challenges and then coming out of that traumatic experience. I was blessed having Great therapist and then great coaches. And to have you know, the possibility is post traumatic growth, like you can't when you go into a deeply traumatic experience, if you have the right support, you can pop out of it in a big growth mindset. And so what happened to me was when I popped out of the post traumatic stress, I had this major awakening about coaching, which I had been doing for a long time and leading the field for a long time. But I really had this awakening that we've gone off track. And as similar to what I spoke about with you just a little bit before we got off track with the field of coaching and it had devolved into this social worker project manager thing. But that's not what coaching is. I come from a I was a college soccer coach for 14 years I've been a performing artist. I used to sing jazz and little clubs and I had athletic coaches and I had had performance our coaches. And I just suddenly woke up to the fact that the performance art coaching experience and the athletic coach experience was very different than what we were doing as life and business coaches. It was like a totally different thing. And like, what is it like a bass when I've had voice coaches? My voice coach didn't say, oh, what do you want to talk about today? My voice coach says, sing something for me. What are you singing? Let's sing like, and then we're singing back and forth and playing and practicing. My soccer coach didn't say let's talk about your soccer problems. My soccer coach says, Okay, let's play. Let's work on these moves. Let's try out this situation. So I'm thinking, what are we doing? How did we devolve into this problem centric view of life? That's not life. Life is for play. I just had this awakening. We're here to play live. And that's really what Put me on this new road of, we've got to talk about coaching as play, you play with someone you play together. So how do we play life? That turned out to be very interesting, you know, journey for me to talk, figure out how do you play life and to draw in my wisdom from performance art and athletics and business and leadership and personal growth. And that huge like Venn diagram became, you know, what we do a coach, build a play life method, and then talk about how to play life and coach life. And essentially, the simplified version of it, which took years to create, you know, it's like, you know, something is good when it's simple. Like, it started out really complicated. And now it's simple. So, to play life as a human being, we all do the same thing. So this is how we play we relate to other people and we play for influence. We create things and experiences and we share them with people. We explore new places to see new things and also to be seen. And then we experiment. We try to do things in new ways and playful ways without worrying about mistakes. And those four things, relate, create, explore, experiment, that's how we play. That's how human beings play. And so, as a play Life Coach, what you're doing is you're talking with your player and playing with them on Okay, what are the converse? What's the next conversation you need to have? And you and I have done this many times, like okay, let's roleplay the conversation. So you get some clarity on what you on the influence you want to create. What are you creating that you want to share with people and then we We use the inner freedom method to get into your non conscious experience of freedom. So you can see where your fears are. Because this is the thing that's really big. My big dream in life right now, this is a bit of a segue in or a pathway in, but my big dream is to unchained the spirit of play in human beings and to guide people all around this world to play for their dream by hiring a coach. Okay, this, these, all these pieces go together is you know, life. We're here on this earth to play for our dreams. And we are not here to do it alone. Right? We are here to have a guide and to guide each other. And so when you look at this notion of playing life, well relating to other people, with the idea of influencing them in a positive way, well, that has a big fear, fear of rejection. It's we all learn it. We're terrified of rejection. We talk about creating and sharing. So we all have something we want to create or experiences we want to create and share. But what's the fear, fear of disappointment. We all are totally chained with this fear of disappointment, then exploring. You think about our curiosity where we were humans we want to explore. But then we learn the fear of trouble, like getting in trouble, like there's going to be trouble. And then with the experimenting, and just trying new ways of doing things, we all learn this terrible fear of mistakes, and perfection needing to be perfect. So, all of these fears are learned. I live in New York City, and there's children in playgrounds, and I'm telling you little children and playgrounds are not fearful of mistakes. They are not fearful of rejection. They go and talk to whatever kids are there and they start creating games together and they're not Afraid of, oh my god, this thing we're creating right now is to four year olds, it might not be perfect, we better not do it. No, they just play. So my big inquiry has been where what happened to us? How do we go from these wildly exuberant, playful creatures to so fearful? And you know, that's been my big journey is, first of all to learn where all these fears are coming from, and then create a coaching method to unchained us from these fears and, and part of it is, as adult players of life, we actually have to take responsibility for the raw power of play because it's powerful. And it so we have to be able to play with responsibility. That's the big thing. So and but we can we're all totally capable of learning how to play with responsibility, and be responsive play and be responsible and that's, this is this is What this is what playing big in life is all about. Leanne Woehlke So how do you approach someone who might be in a traditional, like corporate very structured or sure reality and get them to embrace the idea of play? Dave Buck Yeah, it's it's not easy. It's not easy because the environment always wins like this is what is you know, this is one of our mantras that CoachVille. So we are all fear that we've learned, we learned in an environment, okay? We all learn our fears, in the environments we grow up in, whether it's at home, and then school, and then jobs, we just keep reinforcing these fears. Like As humans, we need to be fearful of our power and our play. Okay, we keep learning that fear over and over again. So, he first of all, you just have to help help the person see that their that their fears have been learned. Okay? It's not inherent to who they are, okay? Fear of play and fear of our power are learned. So then if you can just get that idea, then you can just start making small steps. I mean, like anything else, you just have to start making small steps. But the big piece of it is any human being any collection of human beings, they're human beings. So while you might think, Oh, I can't relate to that person, I'm afraid but the truth is, they desperately want you to relate to them. They desperately want we're all yearning to connect and to be seen and to play. So you just have to realize and have the courage and that's why the person with the coach, okay, so the person with the coach has their corporate life. So as a coach, you would say, all right, what some who, let's think of someone on your team that you would like to connect with in a in a deeper way, and really start to have better conversations than whatever you're talking about. So they think of that person, there's gotta be there's always someone, and then you roleplay that conversation, what do you want to ask them? What do you want to do with them? What's the little, you know, mission you want to create on your team to get everyone on board to do things in a new way. So you start role playing, you start exploring the fears that they have. And so they're the ones with the coach. So they're the ones on the adventure at their office, that are going to start this little mini revolution of getting people to connect and play and experiment and explore which they are all yearning to do. They're all yearning to do but they're just equally afraid. Okay. So the one who has the coach becomes the courageous one. says, hey, let's try something a little different. Let's relate to each other this way. Let's, let's not exclude people, just because They don't believe what we believe or whatever, right let's, let's be more open, let's be more inclusive. This is what all human beings are yearning for. So it's just, this is what I say when I say, play bid for your dream by hiring a coach. You're not going to do it alone. Yeah, we're not meant to and you're not going to if you want to play any bigger than you're playing now, you've got to have a coach and and but I've done this many times I've coached many people in seemingly impossible situations. And through coaching and playing with their fear. They were able to be the courageous won in there in that place, and and help help to break free. Leanne Woehlke I think something you were talking about about practicing those conversations with those role plays is so powerful. You helped me with one with my husband and what I was what I was thinking I was portraying and community King was so different than how it was landing. Mm hmm. And the listener. Yeah. And that's, you know, we think in my in our heads like, Oh, well, of course, this is what I'm saying and they should know it. Dave Buck That's right. But they don't. Leanne Woehlke They don't know. And that was that was a huge profound awakening. Dave Buck Yeah, it is. And that's coaching, right coaching is, coaching is playing together, and observing. That's what great coaching begins with the power to observe someone at play. You play with them, you observe them, and then you can share. This is how this is coming across. This is how you're coming across. Let's experiment with some new ways. And let's visualize some new possibilities. And that's coaching. I like to use the metaphor of a tennis coach because people can kind of get this picture even if you've never played tennis, you've probably seen it. So a tennis coach is on the other side of the court hitting the ball back and forth. And so as the coach, you use your skill level to hit the ball at just the right level of challenge for the person you're coaching, right? So they have, they might have little skill and the balls flying all over the place, but you use your skill to always hit it to them in just the right place. So they have the challenge that they can rise up to. It's not too far just right. And that's what great coaching is great coaching is being the observer and the play partner, the practice partner to keep giving your player just the right level of challenge that they can rise up to and then they keep rising up to the next challenge and the next challenge in the next sounds by playing together. And over time. Amazing things happen. You get better and better. You get clear and clear your dream becomes more real. And then it's just starts happening. Yeah, yeah, that's what I say. That's, that's the It's a coach's practice partner. I think that's really an important distinction when you think about so for all the folks listening, if you have a coach that's kind of like, oh, tell me about your day, tell me about your problems. What do you want to talk about? Okay, I'll hold you accountable for some tasks, then you just say, No, this isn't gonna get me where I'm going. I need someone who can actually play with me and guide me and keep challenging me to play better in life. That's what I need. Leanne Woehlke Right and, and that is, that's a huge distinction. They don't need somebody necessarily to follow up on their day planner. No. Dave Buck No, one thing I want to talk about too, yeah, is this might appeal to to your your listeners. I'm a I'm a I don't even know how to say this. I use tarot cards a lot. Okay, I love tarot cards, because they give me a view into non conscious awareness. And so My favorite tarot card is the tower. Okay, so in the tower card, you've got this tower, and then this lightning bolt just comes flying out of the sky and smashes the tower. And then there's two people depending on the card deck, but there's usually two people that are just flying out of this tower. Right? And so, I have in my new coaching program that I'm creating the symbol is the lightning bolt. Okay, because that's, to me what coaching is, coaches are lightning bolts, okay? Because if you think about these people in the tower, they might be up there in the tower because they're trying to, you know, get safety away from life, like the tower is the comfort zone. And then the lightning bolt just goes Blam. And then they're flying out of air. It's like Alright, well, we're in the world now. Let's go I guess we're at our tower is shattered. So we got to get on adventure. But the thing that's interesting about the tower is that when you see these people flying out of there, they might have gone up there on their own to try to escape from life. Be safe from life, but they also might be imprisoned. Because in in, you know, in ancient medieval times, towers were used to imprison people. Right. So, as I was thinking about it, like these two people are up there. We don't know if they're up there on their own, or if somehow someone locked into imprison them up there. But it actually doesn't matter whether you were imprisoned by someone else, or you were imprisoned by your own fears of the world. You need that lightning bolt to get out of there. Like, bam. All right. We're out. We're out of the comfort zone. Now we're out of the tower now. All right now let the adventure begin. So I just really think that's so that's to me what coaching is about coaching is the lightning bolt because our human instinct for self preservation is always going to keep us really closely tied to, you know, this self preservation zone or comfort zone. And when you start to move out of that zone, the first thing you're going to experience is fear. Because that's how the human being as organized to keep us safe. So your fears trying to keep you safe is trying to keep you away from troubles you've experienced in the past, but almost always, your dream is on the other side of that fear. And so what you need as a human being is to understand first of all, there's always going to be a pole there. This natural pole inner pole between your dream pulling you out, and your self preservation pulling you in, like up into the tower for safety. And that pole is always going to be there. And I'm a big proponent of self love and just saying, We have to stop these things of saying, Oh, I have self sabotage. Or I have self limiting beliefs or I have a bully or a demon or a gremlin or a beast. It or my ego is trying to blah blah, blah, like no stop all this derogatory, blaming, blaming, never helps. Blaming any aspect of your humanity does not help. It doesn't make it better to say, Oh, I have a self saboteur lurking inside of me, that doesn't help you live your dream, right. So it's like we got to love up our own perceptions of our humanity. Say, all right, I have this dream, this vision It's calling me out. I my self preservation instinct is pulling me in. And that poll is what makes life interesting. And that's why there's the coach, the coach is that lightning bolt to keep smashing the tower and keeping you out in the world where your dream is going to be fulfilled, you're never going to fulfill your dream and the tower. Now, so that's the thing is the coach as this capable guy walking with you playing with you, continuing to challenge you through that zone of fear because like I said, Every fear you feel is a fear either of play or your own power. Leanne Woehlke So sometimes people will say like, Oh, I read this book, and it helped me understand some aspect of myself And sure, how is that different than working with a coach? Dave Buck Well, it it's it's different in a lot of ways. I mean, when you When you read something and have an insight that that is good, it can be great, right? But then Living it is the challenge. Right living it, applying it using it in life. And this is something I do all the time as a coach, someone will read something or get inspired by something that they read. And I'll say, Oh, that's so great. Let's practice it right now. Right? So take it from concept, what's the concept? Okay, well, how do you apply that in life and then either we're going to roleplay it, if it's a conversation, or we're going to do inner freedom, we're going to go into imagination, and imagine yourself actually doing it, whatever it is, and then that makes it real, then it's like, okay, now, you take it from a concept to I can now see myself doing this in the world. And then once you get that practice with a coach, then it's so much easier. And then you can do it, then you just then you can do it. So that's the thing. It's like coaching is the it's the catalyst to go from good idea to living in the world. Leanne Woehlke So if someone were to go through the CoachVille program, what does that look like? Dave Buck It looks like a big adventure. That's what it is. It's a big adventure. Well, it from a Leanne Woehlke How long is it? Dave Buck Yeah, I mean, it takes it takes about a year, sometimes a little over a year. And the classes are all done by phone. So you dial into a conference bridge and your classmates will be there and your instructor will be there. One thing that's really unique about CoachVille, as you know, is we're really big on practice. So on every call and every class, part of that call, you're going to be coaching. Your practice partner and your practice partner is going to coach you. We use the maestro bridge to technology. So we're in the big group. And then we break out into small groups. There's lots of conversation. It's very dynamic. Every call is a dynamic experience. And then in addition, there's there's a lot of audio that you listen to of coaching calls and other prior classes to get the concepts and to really listen to the code, listen to coaching, done at a high level. So it's a multifaceted experience. And then we also really encourage you to have practice players, you know, to apply every week what you do in class with your practice, partner, then do that with 234 or five people in your life friends, family, colleagues, whoever people you know, on Facebook, just get into practice, you've got to do it. Coaching is mean really coaching, if, as far as modalities go, coaching, when you're doing it is more of performance art and the only way you To get good in any performance art is practice, you've got to practice. So you have guidance, someone observing you, and then you go out and practice. And so that's the the coach program is, is a sequence of, of classes and concepts that take you for take you through this whole journey of learning how to coach another person first to recognize their own power to recognize and articulate their own dream. And then to, you know, through the play life method, you learn these ideas of how to play life and the fears that we experience in playing life and how to coach people through those fears. Then we go even deeper into the non conscious part of coaching, which is the inner freedom method. And then we also have a whole curriculum around coaching the person in their environment and you know, your your folks Well, we'll understand this. But playing life is in many ways is a game of alignment. Right? It's a, it's an energy alignment. So there's you, you want to create an energetic alignment between the you that you want to become, and your dream. And so when you start to shift, who I've always been this, but now I want to become this new version of myself, I've always done this, but now I have a dream of doing something new, something bigger. So then you've got this new version of you this new dream. And now the game is to get alignment. So you've got to line up your beliefs, your skills, you've got to recognize the fears you have, you have to align your conscious mind your non conscious mind, your environment, your connection to the super minds, you've got a real line all these things between the New Year And your new dream. And so the coaching curriculum basic the CoachVille coaching curriculum, walks through each of the steps that you need as a coach to create that alignment, conscious mind, non conscious mind, environment and super mind. And then you've got to create that energetic alignment. And that's really what life coaching is. It's the playing together, and then playing this alignment game. And that's what we teach you how to do. Leanne Woehlke I think one of the things that was that struck me and was a little surprising when I went through coach felt is the amount of personal growth that I personally experienced throughout the program as well. So it wasn't just like skill set learning how to coach but it was also a personal trainer, you Dave Buck share an example I would love to hear it. Leanne Woehlke Yeah, I began to look at how my business was going to operate a little bit differently, as well as how I was going to interact with people within you know, my world. Yeah, so lots of differences. And I can look at even starting privately coaching clients, which wasn't something I was actively doing prior. And I wasn't sure that that was going to be something that I did, but through the classes, and then through the practice players that I had throughout the program, I really began to love it. Like that was my favorite part of the week. And then I had people who even people that I coached a year ago and coach them for, you know, I would do three months at a time and then six months, because they wanted to continue on. And there are people that still don't text me and say, Hey, can I have a session? I need to? Yeah, he threw some things. Sure. I love that. Yeah, that was surprising. Dave Buck No, you you made a lot of amazing, amazing leaps in your own potential and possibility. And the thing that I say all the time when I talk to people about business, a lot of people and we've been taught this notion That you build a business in order to become free. But the truth is, you have to become free in order to build your business. And that's really what I saw you do as you became more and more free to express your own power, really owning it and expressing it and realizing that Yeah, I am this powerhouse. I can be kind of bossy. And and this is the thing I say. I said all the time. We learn to fear play and we learn to fear our power. And so your power, your bossiness power was wholly chained up. And as you unchained that power and started to express it, people then actually felt more at ease around you because they're like, oh, now she's finally just Being herself. And then that's when good things start to happen. So as you became free, then your business started to grow. And that's, that's that's actually how it works. So that's why, and you're not going to be free, this is the thing, you are never going to get free by yourself. And we're not supposed to the idea that we're supposed to be able to do things ourselves is a is a wrong notion from the industrial age of school, where everyone has to sit there by themselves. And the teacher says do your own work if you help your neighbor, you're a cheater. That's not human. That's dehumanizing. Humans are co creative, collaborative creatures. So the idea that I should be able to do this myself, that's just a totally wrong notion. You shouldn't be able to do it yourself. You're supposed to be co creating every Hero's Journey story from the beginning of humankind, the hero has a guide. Well, there's a reason why all these stories have written this way is because humans are supposed to guide each other on our adventures. So just we got to let go this Industrial Age school thing of sit that sitting there by yourself doing your own work. And it's so isolating. And that's really I find the biggest problem that people have in any endeavor in life is isolation. isolation. Barbara Sher always said it isolation is the dream killer. So you've got to get out of isolation and back into co creation, and that's why I'm so big on you know, unchained the spirit of play, and hire a coach. That's, that's that's the, that's the plan. Leanne Woehlke So if if who comes to coach Phil, like, what kind of people are they people who were Dave Buck business consultants? Are they Yeah, all kinds, you know, people ask me all these digital marketers, are you asking me to like make my avatar I'm like, a human who wants to be awesome. Like, that's our avatar. I don't know what else to do. tell you, I mean, we have so such a diverse population. We have students all around the world who speak English from very, you know, Jordan, Sweden, Czech Republic. I mean, US, Canada, obviously, but all around the world, different ages. It used to be there was a sweet spot of like 45 to 60. Now we have 20 year olds in class, right? We have 20 year olds, we have 70 year olds. So there's no age if you it's really people who have had some life experience that they want to share. And they want to learn how to do it in the best possible way. So what anyone who's You know, I think the the people who become a coach are the people that have faced some kind of a big challenge, had some awareness that has helped them get through that challenge, and now they want to be a guide for others and they also want to keep growing right? That's really those are the two components, you have this desire to be a guide for others, and you want to keep growing because like you said, this is something we tell people all the time before they come into our school. Life Coaching is the most rigorous personal growth program ever invented. If you want to keep growing a lot, become a coach, because every person you coach is going to actually challenge you to keep growing and raise your level. So those are the people who come to coach Phil. I mean, it's from a wide variety of things. This is funny story. I met this woman I was speaking at an event. This woman was there. She said, Oh, coach Dave, you know, I've been a social worker for 20 years. And, you know, I was thinking I want to start coaching, but I don't think I really need any training. I'm a social worker, I already know how to do it. And I said, I'm sorry to tell you this, but your social work training has almost no correlation to coaching and she was like, so mad at me like that, I would say such a thing. So anyway, I don't know how but she decided to do our program. And so I had her in class the other day. She's been in the program for like three months. She says she's during the during the q&a, she says, coach Dave, I just need to apologize for you. I was so mad at you. And you told me that my social worker skills were not going to apply to life coaching. But now I'm just going to tell you, you were right. This is totally different than what I was doing before. And I'm so glad I'm here learning how to do this. This is making me so happy. Leanne Woehlke Well in it is different. I've had clinical psychology, PhD level courses, I've had group psychotherapy classes, social classes, clinical interviewing classes, and it's very different than what I learned at CoachVille. And I could have been a coach without those classes. Dave Buck Right for sure. Leanne Woehlke You know, so that's, that's the interesting thing is it is a different skill set. One of the things that I find so profound is this idea of judgment free awareness? Mm hmm. Can you talk a little bit about that? Because that was a huge pivot. Yeah, Dave Buck this is a big, it is a huge pivot because it's essential to the coaching experience. And it's also essential to play. Okay? They, it's a part of both. So, to be to be able to play, you have to be able to just act without fear of mistakes. And this is very difficult, because in the industrial age, we really were harshly trained to fear mistakes, the fear of mistakes, fear messes, and all these other things. We talked about fear of rejection, fear of disappointment. Well, you can't play when you have those fears. So we talk about judgment, free awareness, which is this ability that all humans have to put yourself in into a mode of curiosity and to say, Oh, that's interesting. I was going to call this person but suddenly I felt this funny feeling in my chest so that I didn't call. I wonder what that's all about. That's judgment, free awareness. I wonder that's interesting. I wonder what that's about. I wonder why I started looking at Facebook when I was supposed to be creating my, my outline for my program. Wonder, right? So this is this is the judgment, free awareness and then as a coach, when when you're, when you're coaching someone, you know, they're facing fear. So what you don't want to do is bring your judgment to their fear. Coaching relies on profound belonging and what breaks are profound belonging is the feeling of being judged. What creates feeling of belonging is the feeling of being seen. We're all desperately yearning to be seen for who we really are without judgment. And so that's what the judgment free awareness is. Most people do not have judgment, free awareness. Because we come from the industrial world, we judge ourselves, we judge everything. So, first, the coach has to bring it. The coach has to bring, oh, that's okay. That's interesting. This is what you're going to do. But you talk, we talked about it, but then you didn't do it. All right. I wonder what happened. Let's explore this from a judgment free perspective. And gradually, the player will start to adapt and adopt a judgment free perspective. And that's when they start to become free. Judgment. Free awareness is freedom. It's the ability to play freely and experience life with wonder. And so that's it. that's what that's what it is. And then it's just all about having a little, just a little bit of responsibility to go with all that freedom is the right is the right blend. But it really requires that judgment free space that the coach creates the free space to practice. You got to have a space to practice. You don't just know how to do everything. You just don't know how to have every conversation you need to have, or how to create what you want to create, especially creative people. Like it's so easy to get caught in our in a trap of perfectionism. But that's just learned. If you were just if you were a human and you didn't go to industrial school, your creativity would be much more vibrant and online. So really a lot of coaching is to unravel all of these fears we picked up and and begin to be able to play freely again. But that's and that's what coaching is the ability to practice live, play live. unchained ourselves from these fears that we learned. We don't judge them. We just go, Oh, that's interesting. I have fear of rejection. Okay. Let's explore that. Where did that come from? What is another option that I have? What you know, how do I love up every aspect of me so that it's, it's equal to my dream because remember that alignment game like you just have to look at your non conscious ways that you learned from your environment and then love them up to be equal to what your dream requires. And that's that's where the judgment free awareness really comes in. Leanne Woehlke So again, let me ask you this. Yes. What inspires you? Dave Buck What inspires me? Yeah, good question. Um, I mean, I get super inspired by my players all the time by our students that CoachVille like you You inspire me. I think that's really it. It's, it's when I see a person start to play life. It doesn't mean everything goes sunny and beautiful. I mean, you can play and it can be a disaster, right? But, but you at least played if you really just play when I see someone who just starts to play, you know, it's going to come good, like, play always comes good eventually. So that's the idea is you know what really inspires me is when someone, you can just see them take the chain off and express their power, express their playfulness and start to have things happen like when you had this major shift in your relationship with your husband that we played with over a period of time. Wow, that was so inspiring. When you changed how you were relating to your staff. And being and starting to be take your own power and being your you have this amazing power of seeing how things need to be you have great vision but you expressing that power was hard because it feels bossy. And you were afraid of that but when you when you took that chain off and started expressing it and then people started responding to you very favorably that's so inspired me. And so this is this is this is my life is just being inspired by my players. Leanne Woehlke That's awesome. I appreciate you taking this time so much Dave Buck it was so fun. Leanne Woehlke Fun. I we could talk for hours I think. Good no doubt. Yeah, I know. tell our listeners How can people catch up with you? What's the best way to find out what you're up to and what CoachVille is up to? Dave Buck Yeah, the the best easiest way is just go to www.CoachVille.com it's been our website for almost 20 years and it's still there the www.coachville.com you know, you can find me you know, our phone numbers there if you want to talk with me personally, you know, I talk to people i'm not i'm not in some ivory tower. I actually Talk to people. So if you want to talk about your big dream, if you want to talk about your business possibilities in coaching, just go to CoachVille, get the number, give us a call, happy to talk to you. Leanne Woehlke That's amazing because most people don't even have phone numbers on websites any longer. Dave Buck I know we're crazy. We're old school. We have a phone number. I know it's true. Well, I, you know, I'm doing my age, I believe in talking to people on the phone. I know, it's weird, but I do. Leanne Woehlke Yeah, it's that human connection, which is why I think CoachVille is so special and, you know, offer something so different than any of the other coaching schools out there? Dave Buck Very, I mean, there's definitely some other really good schools, but I would say in the realm of coaching, from this perspective, that life is, we're here to play for our dreams. We're not here to work on them. We're here to play for our dreams. We're really as far as I know the only school that really emphasizes play and coaching. And playing together. So yeah, if you've been inspired by this notion of play, and especially playing with fear, yeah, come and talk to us, we can really help you do what you want to do. Leanne Woehlke And one of the other things that I love about CoachVille, is even the access to the book clubs that are held periodically, that are a free service and allow people to dive into different concepts and discussions together. Dave Buck Yeah, we love book club. I don't know when this is gonna go live. But if someone listens to this near the time we recorded it, we're next. Our next book is Seth Godin, his book, this is marketing. And, you know, I know Seth personally, and he was like, he loves the idea of us doing the book club. And so, yeah, we're pumped. I'm pumped for this as marketing. So if you listen to this soonish I'm Ben. Come and join us a book a book. We're always doing some awesome books. So just come and play with us. You can connect with Dave at CoachVille at 866-548-6516www.coachville.com
28 Apr 2020
We're All In This Together- Speaking Your Truth In Times Of Corona Virus
In the last 2 weeks, I have completely re-tooled my business in response to the corona virus. In this episode I share thoughts about standing for others during this time of uncertainty.
26 Mar 2020
Deep Rest- A Yoga Nidra
A Yoga Nidra is a guided meditation that will allow you to move into a state of deep relaxation. You can also use this meditation to get to sleep. DO NOT USE WHILE DRIVING!
20 Mar 2020
Paige Elenson- Social Humanitarian and Spiritual Activist and Founder of Africa Yoga Project
In this episode we learn how a family vacation sparked connection in Kenya and resulted in Paige moving half way around the world and forming Africa Yoga Project. She shares thoughts for new teachers, as well as how you get get involved with Africa Yoga Project.Paige Elenson lives and breathes the creed of service and self-empowerment that she teaches. A native New Yorker, Ashoka Fellow, Muhammad Ali Humanitarian Global Citizen 2017 award recipient, Paige has been teaching yoga for over a decade. As a Senior Baptiste Yoga Teacher, Paige leads yoga teacher trainings in Kenya and across the United States. teaches in Yoga Journal Conferences across the United States, and is a featured presenter at the Evolution Asia Yoga Conference, the Barcelona Yoga Conference, the AcroYoga Festival, the Baptiste Power Flow Immersion, and the Yoga Teacher Telesummit.Paige’s incisive skills as a businesswoman, spiritual activist, and social entrepreneur inspired her work with the Africa Yoga Project organization. In 2007, Paige moved to Africa and co-founded the AYP organization, a movement that empowers the youth of Kenya to learn, contribute, and change their lives through the transformative power of yoga. With the support of Baron Baptiste and his community, the AYP organization facilitated the first yoga teacher training in Kenya and now employs local youth to teach full-time in their own communities. AYP programs offer free classes to over 6,000 students per week, simultaneously building schools and funding education, critical operations, and environmental endeavors.Since 2007, Paige has partnered with leaders in politics, philanthropy, design, and entertainment to broaden the AYP organization’s empowering reach. Whether working alongside Donna Karan’s Urban Zen Foundation, UNICEF, or Michelle Obama’s Let’s Move Initiative, Paige creates unique opportunities for community involvement and transformation. At home in Nairobi or reaching students around the world, Paige’s dedication to positive global change is infectious and inspiring.
12 Mar 2020
Deb Kern- Full Episode- Reclaiming Sacred Sexuality And The Divine Feminine
In this episode Dr Deb Kern shares the early influences that led her to seeking out the power of the divine feminine. She teaches us about the power of righteous anger and it's ability to burn you clear. We chat about the role of the divine feminine in infertility and breast cancer, as well as the effects of stuck emotions on the body. We examine the role of a teacher in one's life and the challenges of the entrepreneurial journey. Dr Deb has a wealth of insight that will leave you inspired.To learn more about Deb, you can check out her website at www.drdebkern.com. You can also find her on social media at @drdebkern.
7 Mar 2020
Chris Lucas- Creating The Future Of Online Yoga
Chris Lucas is the CEO and co-founder of Ompractice. He is the former digital director for Baptiste Yoga and a certified yoga teacher since 2012. Chris taught yoga at the White House Easter Egg Roll for six years during the Obama Administration, and was a board member of Yoga Reaches Out, a charity that raised over $1,000,000 for organizations focused on helping children and their families. He has been a digital wellness consultant to numerous professional athletes, sports teams, military organizations, and consumer and fitness brands. He lives in Northampton, Mass. with his wife, daughter, and dog Huey.
25 Feb 2020
David Dang- Social Media Content Secrets
David Dang has created an Instagram following of over 1 Million people. In this episode he shares his secrets for creating content to help you gain followers and take your social game to a new level.
19 Feb 2020