In this episode, Neil and Ian summarise the findings presented in the recent National Audit Office report on the condition of school buildings. They explore the startling reality that many school buildings, particularly those beyond their estimated initial design life, contain asbestos. This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in public health, education policy, and the ongoing challenge of asbestos management in the UK. Read the full report -  https://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/condition-of-school-buildings.pdf Get help with asbestos - https://www.acorn-as.com

In this episode, Neil and Ian summarise the findings presented in the recent National Audit Office report on the condition of school buildings. They explore the startling reality that many school buildings, particularly those beyond their estimated initial design life, contain asbestos. This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in public health, education policy, and the ongoing challenge of asbestos management in the UK. Read the full report - <a href="https://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/condition-of-school-buildings.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> https://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/condition-of-school-buildings.pdf</a> Get help with asbestos - <a href="https://www.acorn-as.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.acorn-as.com</a>

The Condition of School Buildings: A Hidden Crisis

In this episode, Neil and Ian discuss the findings presented in a recent report produced jointly by ATaC &amp; NORAC two organisations representing the asbestos surveying sector. The report contains some startling statistics. Neil and Ian discuss the implications of this data, shining a light on the alarming quantity of damaged asbestos especially given that the Duty to Manage regulations aim to maintain asbestos in good condition.  To view the report:  https://www.atac.org.uk/news/first-annual-data-analysis-report-into-asbestos-in-uk-buildings-published  Get help with asbestos: https://www.acorn-as.com/

In this episode, Neil and Ian discuss the findings presented in a recent report produced jointly by ATaC &amp; NORAC two organisations representing the asbestos surveying sector. The report contains some startling statistics. Neil and Ian discuss the implications of this data, shining a light on the alarming quantity of damaged asbestos especially given that the Duty to Manage regulations aim to maintain asbestos in good condition.  To view the report: <a href="https://www.atac.org.uk/news/first-annual-data-analysis-report-into-asbestos-in-uk-buildings-published" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> https://www.atac.org.uk/news/first-annual-data-analysis-report-into-asbestos-in-uk-buildings-published</a>  Get help with asbestos: <a href="https://www.acorn-as.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.acorn-as.com/</a>

ATaC and NORAC  - First Annual Data Analysis Report

In this episode, Neil and Ian speak to Charles Pickles who provides his in-depth opinion on the current asbestos management requirements and what should be changed. Charles Pickles is a renowned figure in the field of asbestos consultancy with a career dedicated to campaigning for pragmatic solutions to asbestos issues. He co-founded Lucion Environmental in 2002, which became the UK’s largest asbestos consultancy by the time of his exit in 2019. Since leaving Lucion he's been an active campaigner for improvements in asbestos management including:  Airtight on asbestos campaign European Asbestos Forum Asbestonomy Written evidence to parliamentary committees   Charles Pickles - https://www.linkedin.com/in/charles-pickles-05889032/ Get help with asbestos - https://www.acorn-as.com

In this episode, Neil and Ian speak to Charles Pickles who provides his in-depth opinion on the current asbestos management requirements and what should be changed. Charles Pickles is a renowned figure in the field of asbestos consultancy with a career dedicated to campaigning for pragmatic solutions to asbestos issues. He co-founded Lucion Environmental in 2002, which became the UK’s largest asbestos consultancy by the time of his exit in 2019. Since leaving Lucion he's been an active campaigner for improvements in asbestos management including: <ul> <li>Airtight on asbestos campaign</li> <li>European Asbestos Forum</li> <li>Asbestonomy</li> <li>Written evidence to parliamentary committees </li> </ul> Charles Pickles - <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/charles-pickles-05889032/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.linkedin.com/in/charles-pickles-05889032/</a> Get help with asbestos - <a href="https://www.acorn-as.com/" rel="noopener nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.acorn-as.com</a>

Interview Charles Pickles: Asbestos Campaigner and Asbestos Expert

Robin Bennett

In this episode, Neil and Ian sit down with Robin Bennett. Robin is a renowned figure in the asbestos software industry. Today, Robin will share his insights on a groundbreaking report that analyzes a massive data set of 3 million asbestos samples. Gathered through their state-of-the-art software, Alpha Tracker, this is one of the most comprehensive studies of its kind. Alpha Tracker-  https://alpha-tracker.co.uk/ Damage Report: https://alpha-tracker.co.uk/damage - people can order a printed copy of the report.  Get help with asbestos - https://www.acorn-as.com

In this episode, Neil and Ian sit down with Robin Bennett. Robin is a renowned figure in the asbestos software industry. Today, Robin will share his insights on a groundbreaking report that analyzes a massive data set of 3 million asbestos samples. Gathered through their state-of-the-art software, Alpha Tracker, this is one of the most comprehensive studies of its kind. Alpha Tracker-  <a href="https://alpha-tracker.co.uk/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://alpha-tracker.co.uk/</a> Damage Report: <a href="https://alpha-tracker.co.uk/damage" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://alpha-tracker.co.uk/damage</a> - people can order a printed copy of the report.  Get help with asbestos - <a href="https://www.acorn-as.com/" rel="noopener nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.acorn-as.com</a>

Interview Robin Bennett: Damage Report

In this episode, Neil and Ian are joined by Liz Darlison MBE who is the Chief Executive Officer of national charity Mesothelioma UK. Liz shares her unique insights and experiences in helping people deal with the negative health effects from asbestos exposure.      Liz has enjoyed over 37 years of clinical practice at the University Hospitals of Leicester, and it was from there she established Mesothelioma UK, a national charity for mesothelioma. Currently, she is a Consultant Nurse at University Hospitals Leicester and is also CEO at Mesothelioma UK.     Liz has Honorary university positions in both Leicester and Sheffield, is very research active, keenly promotes nursing as a career and engages in pre and post graduate education.   In the 2019 Queen Elizabeth’s Birthday honours list Liz was invited to become a Member of the British Empire (MBE) in recognition of her services to patients and cancer research.   Get help with asbestos - https://www.acorn-as.com

In this episode, Neil and Ian are joined by Liz Darlison MBE who is the Chief Executive Officer of national charity Mesothelioma UK. Liz shares her unique insights and experiences in helping people deal with the negative health effects from asbestos exposure.   Liz has enjoyed over 37 years of clinical practice at the University Hospitals of Leicester, and it was from there she established Mesothelioma UK, a national charity for mesothelioma. Currently, she is a Consultant Nurse at University Hospitals Leicester and is also CEO at Mesothelioma UK.    Liz has Honorary university positions in both Leicester and Sheffield, is very research active, keenly promotes nursing as a career and engages in pre and post graduate education.   In the 2019 Queen Elizabeth’s Birthday honours list Liz was invited to become a Member of the British Empire (MBE) in recognition of her services to patients and cancer research.   Get help with asbestos - <a href="https://www.acorn-as.com/" rel="noopener nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.acorn-as.com</a>

Liz Darlison MBE: Neil and Ian interview the CEO of the UKs national Mesothelioma charity – Mesothelioma UK

Neil Munro

Join Neil Munro on the Helen Blaby BBC Radio Northampton show. Raising awareness of Gobal Asbestos Awareness Week and discussing the current asbestos problems faced today. Get help with asbestos - https://www.acorn-as.com

Join Neil Munro on the Helen Blaby BBC Radio Northampton show. Raising awareness of Gobal Asbestos Awareness Week and discussing the current asbestos problems faced today. Get help with asbestos - <a href="https://www.acorn-as.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.acorn-as.com</a>

BBC Radio Northampton Interview with Neil Munro – Global Asbestos Awareness Week

In this episode Neil and Ian discuss the importance of doing your asbestos due diligence before purchasing a property. Whether that is a domestic or commercial property, asbestos should always be looked at BEFORE exchanging money. Get help with asbestos - https://www.acorn-as.com

In this episode Neil and Ian discuss the importance of doing your asbestos due diligence before purchasing a property. Whether that is a domestic or commercial property, asbestos should always be looked at BEFORE exchanging money. Get help with asbestos - <a href="https://www.acorn-as.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.acorn-as.com</a>

Due diligence when purchasing a property

In this episode Neil and Ian discuss the topic can asbestos removal works be carried out in an occupied office? Get help with asbestos - https://www.acorn-as.com

In this episode Neil and Ian discuss the topic can asbestos removal works be carried out in an occupied office? Get help with asbestos - <a href="https://www.acorn-as.com/" rel="noopener nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.acorn-as.com</a>

Can you have asbestos removal works carried out in an occupied office?

In this episode Neil and Ian discuss the subject of what does asbestos mean to me? Get help with asbestos - https://www.acorn-as.com

In this episode Neil and Ian discuss the subject of what does asbestos mean to me? Get help with asbestos - <a href="https://www.acorn-as.com/" rel="noopener nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.acorn-as.com</a>

What does asbestos mean to me?

In this episode Neil and Ian discuss all the various equipment an asbestos surveyor should have when undertaking an asbestos survey. Get help with asbestos - https://www.acorn-as.com

In this episode Neil and Ian discuss all the various equipment an asbestos surveyor should have when undertaking an asbestos survey. Get help with asbestos - <a href="https://www.acorn-as.com/" rel="noopener nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.acorn-as.com</a>

What equipment should an asbestos surveyor carry?

The Property Managers Lifeline to Asbestos Management.Join two of Acorn's Directors, best-selling authors and asbestos experts Ian Stone and Neil Munro as they educate, guide and take the complication out of asbestos management.Get the information you need to help manage your asbestos risk."Remember asbestos first, not last" - Neil Munro and Ian Stone.

These guys know what they are talking about.  If you are looking to learn about asbestos or are in the asbestos business, this is the podcast to listen to!

Hosts are Great

Thank you for being such a great host!! Would recommend this podcast to anyone who loves to know about asbestos. We will definitely listen to it every day.

Great host!

The Property Managers Lifeline to Asbestos Management. Join two of Acorn's Directors, best-selling authors and asbestos experts Ian Stone and Neil Munro as they educate, guide and take the complication out of asbestos management. Get the information you need to help manage your asbestos risk. "Remember asbestos first, not last" - Neil Munro and Ian Stone.

Asbestos Knowledge Empire

In this episode Ian and Neil explain what you need to know about asbestos awareness training. What it is, what it should include and what to look for in a trainer.

In this episode Ian and Neil explain what you need to know about asbestos awareness training. What it is, what it should include and what to look for in a trainer.

Asbestos Awareness Training - What you need to know

In this episode Ian and Neil provide information on asbestos management surveys covering what they are, when you would require them and what to expect from them.

In this episode Ian and Neil provide information on asbestos management surveys covering what they are, when you would require them and what to expect from them.

Asbestos Management Surveys

In this episode Ian and Neil outline the importance of producing specifications for asbestos removal works. Detailing the different ways to look at projects. The importance of not just looking a project on its own – which can possibly be cheaper initially but can inherit problems afterwards or just doing that small element may not be cost effective. Looking at the lifetime aspect of the works and what the dutyholder may inherit afterwards. Providing a level pricing field for asbestos contractors and ensuring you get the job that works for you.

In this episode Ian and Neil outline the importance of producing specifications for asbestos removal works. Detailing the different ways to look at projects. The importance of not just looking a project on its own – which can possibly be cheaper initially but can inherit problems afterwards or just doing that small element may not be cost effective. Looking at the lifetime aspect of the works and what the dutyholder may inherit afterwards. Providing a level pricing field for asbestos contractors and ensuring you get the job that works for you.

Specifications for asbestos removal works, what’s the point?

In this episode Ian and Neil explain asbestos emergency situations, when and why these may happen and what to do to minimise exposure.

In this episode Ian and Neil explain asbestos emergency situations, when and why these may happen and what to do to minimise exposure.

Asbestos Emergencies - What to do

In this episode Neil and Ian discuss the types of asbestos encapsulation. The commonly available encapsulation methods are:  Mechanical Encapsulation High Build Elastomeric Coating Penetrating Encapsulants Water Based Epoxy Resins  Transcript   Ian:      Welcome to the Asbestos Knowledge Empire. I’m Ian Stone. Neil:    I’m Neil Munro. So today we are going to talk about asbestos and encapsulating asbestos materials, so we had a bit of a situation where one of our clients and they are looking to encapsulate some external asbestos. So asbestos insulating board soffits and the question they kind of raised was what do they have to encapsulate those materials with. So in their minds they’ve heard about the different materials and different products that run the market for encapsulating materials, so they adamantly know it have to be ET150 which is and will explain going to a bit more detail of exactly what it is. But it is a product that is common in they are used to encapsulate asbestos materials within the asbestos industry. So the external asbestos insulating boards soffits, fixated in their minds that it had to be two coats of ET150. That’s an okay material to use but it sorts of boil into question, how long would that actually last on the external of the property because it is actually not an external product, and it would face will it be on the outside, below the roof and there is gutters that’s sort of the soffits so that is going to be weathered and susceptible to a lot of rain and wind etcetera on the outside of the building. And they’ve already previously done called a lot of these encapsulating works throughout this property. Ian:      What do they do? Neil:    There is evidence that the ET150 that they have previously used has weathered, has starting to peel, starting to bubble. Ian:      Which that doesn’t surprise me. Neil:    Yeah. Ian:      Because like you say like the ET150 is elastomeric sealing. It dries with like a rubberize finish so that’s kind of our go to as an industry. Neil:    It is a perfect product for… Ian:      Stuff inside. Neil:    Yes, stuff inside, so Ian:      Or in walls. Neil:    Yeah, walls, asbestos insulating boards, ceiling, walls, paneling fabrics. Ian:      But like you say it is not an external paint. It is not an exterior paint. Neil:    No. It is perfect inside because it doesn’t get any weathering, doesn’t get any rain on it, gives it some impact protection. Doesn’t peel when it is dry. It can take a bit of vapor so in boiler rooms where there’s a bit of steam. It is okay for that. But when we are talking about wind, rain, hail, snow, temperatures constantly going up and down like freezing. Ian:      Yeah. But in their mind they just heard that’s ET150 is the asbestos paint. Neil:    It’s got to be that because that’s what you use for asbestos, and it’s all brought about big question is. Ian:      What can you actually use? Neil:    What can you actually use and do you have to use that? Ian:      Okay. We got a few that we’re going to run through of different ones that you can use and can be use, and it is kind of horses for courses. It is different products are better for different things. Neil:    We actually scan [unclear – 03:27] and even asbestos contractors guide as well. There is no specification. Ian:      No. The only that kind of mentioned was in essentials where it talks about a non. Neil:    Yeah, asbestos essential. There is a task sheet for encapsulating asbestos cement and it just said a low solvent. Ian:      That’s it, low solvent, which that is kind of a standard practice anyway because... Neil:    Yeah, that is a non-descript.   Ian:      That’s coming at it from the health and safety point of view of high solvent paints so give more dangerous to your health, more risk of being more flammable, etcetera. So yeah, there are different thing that you can use. You can use normal house paints. Start kind of the lower end of the scale. Neil:    More emulsion.         Ian:      Yeah, bit of emulsion. Slap it on there. It will cover it. It will seal it at exactly the same way. The thing with kind of standard paints is you’ll get a better finish that than you would… That’s the only thing with. Neil:    Pick the color you want. Ian:      Yeah pick the color you want. Get ET150 it comes in white, grey. Neil:    Dark grey.    Ian:      Dark grey, yeah. And you’re in the realms of like took in other colors into mix with it which it is never ideal. Neil:    Yeah, we’ve removed emulsion obviously it is quite thin so particularly if you are encapsulating a friable material wouldn’t it take quite a few coats so and say to actually get a decent seal on it. Ian:      Even if you’re spraying it, it would. Whether you are spraying it or painting it with like brushes or rollers it definitely. Neil:    You need a good few coats probably just to actually seal it in particular like AIB where you have actually got fibers sticking out of the material. Ian:      You think of like when you are doing any decorating in your house like when you paint it. I mean it is brilliant one coat, makes me laugh every time. One coat, well, always needs two coats doesn’t it. Have you ever used the pink stuff? You paint it pink and it goes white. I’ve used that. Again, you still need more and you still miss a bit. That might be just me because I’m crap at decorating. Neil:    DIY specialist. Ian:      Yes, so you can use those. Now, the downside of using emulsion, like I said the upside is you get a better finish and you get the color you want. The downside is that there is no kind of impact protection there. Neil:    No. Ian:      That’s the problem, and that’s why when you ratchet it upon the next one on the scale is the ET150. Neil:    And particularly I suppose it depends on what kind of emulsion so like standard emulsion, you can wipe that off with a cloth quite easily so it is not really going to give you any protection over than it might just stick the fibers down to the material a bit, that’s been unsealed. Obviously if you have got like clean ones or something that’s a bit more. Ian:      Like the satin finish or whatever. Again, that gives you a little bit more… Neil:    A little bit stronger, sort of a stronger finish. Ian:      Yeah, but when you compare that like I say to the next one on the list which is ET150 that is where it comes into its own and that is why as an industry we use it a lot. It is a thick paint, it dries. Neil:    Compared to emulsion, yeah. If you’re looking at that emulsion that’s of ET15. ET150 looks more like paste, doesn’t it? It is real thick sort of paint. Ian:      It is fantastic and it does the job great. Like I said earlier you can encapsulate boiler room walls, ceilings, paint big panels of asbestos insulating boards, paint pipe work with it, whatever, and it goes on nice and thick. It covers really well. Once it is dry it does give a little bit of impact protection because it’s got that kind of rubberized finish. Neil:    Yeah, another thing I would say you’re not going to get a decorative finish. Ian:      That’s exactly where I was going with that. The finish is never meant. Neil:    Yeah, It is sealed. Ian:      Exactly, yeah. And there is a different job between painting like for aesthetics and painting for sealing the asbestos. And even if you got a painter and decorator in was asbestos trained to do that you still not going to get the finish that you would with normal stuff. Neil:    How many contractors you had say, no decorate mate. Ian:      Every single one. That’s a classic line. Yes, so that’s the only problem or the only downside but I mean most of the time when it is boiler rooms, back of house, all the rest of it, as long as it looks half decent and it is sealing the area. I mean don’t get me wrong you can get a good finish. It doesn’t always have to look like a dog’s dinner. Neil:    I was going to say like with big areas where contractors and sprayer applied it which involves watering the material down so it can be sprayable but they have to do a few more coats. You know, two coats is usually not enough so they end up doing three or four coats to get that protection layer but it is a smoother finish. It is a smoother finish whereas if you hand brushing it on you get extra on so you end up with a thicker layer but it does look a little bit rough. So it is important to bear in mind that if you’re encapsulating asbestos materials when somewhere where you want to look pretty. Ian:      Yeah, if you think about like on the entrance to a building or reception are or something. Neil:    Potentially not going to have a nice finish on that. Ian:      No. Not if they can’t spray it at least. But that said like I said that is the standard go to within our industry for those reasons but like we said it doesn’t necessarily have to be that. So the next one down on the list is like a penetrating encapsulant. See this kind of, again, they soak in to the material more. They give an even more protection because they kind of soak up into it and therefore that protection factor. Neil:    That comes a layer part of the layer on. Ian:      Yeah, becomes like a layer on the outside itself, and it is good for more friable asbestos types really. There is a few on the market. Neil:    But again that’s all on the application process where not being applied correctly and having the correct amount of layers building upon the material. Ian:      And the experience because when you’re working with these materials, I mean, like we say anybody can paint a wall, right. So yeah, fine, using emulsion, that’s fine. Using an ET150 that’s fine. When you start using the penetrating encapsulants you need to know how much of a layer you are putting on. How long that you are leaving it, how many coats you are giving it, the gaps and times in between because that can all affect because the last thing you want to do is encapsulate the substrate and then that causes damage to the actual asbestos. Neil:    Yeah. And there is obviously a cost difference between those and the ET150 as well. So that’ something to bear in mind and if you are encapsulating a lot of asbestos materials that’s going to increase, you know, it’s going to have a multiple… Ian:      And there is another one as well which is water base epoxy resins. Now they are available kind of either as a resin finish itself, so whereas kind of like the penetrating encapsulant, it will finish over the material and usually give like a cloudy or a clear finish. But also you can get them where you use like a chopped strand mat that goes into the mix as well. And again, that gives you a real high impact and high protection that’s kind of it becomes easier to use, easier to manage, it is cleanable. Neil:    Yeah, it kinds of give you a cleanable surface afterwards. Ian:      But again that even more so than the penetrating ones. That’s an even more difficult material to use and to get the right finish on.      Neil:    Yeah, paint wise, yeah. So that’s kind of covering the actual encapsulating material but if you want to go to the next level and that sort of add into mechanical encapsulations in the HSE. You can actually build something around the materials and that could be anything. Ian:      Exactly that. I mean, it doesn’t have to be painted to be encapsulated. It could be a… Neil:    Box in with plaster board or anything. Yeah, aluminum casings or…  Ian:      Seen the results over the years like boarding directly applied on like Supalax, stuff like that. What you said… Neil:    Yeah, put board and AIB, asbestos insulating board. Ian:      Plyboard in the boxing out, plaster board in and around it, metal sheeting put directly over it like panels put straight over it. Yeah, tin going around pipes, even wrapping with kind of fiber glass and [unclear – 10:53] wrapping them up. Again, this is all form of encapsulation. Neil:    Yeah. Again, going back to what I was talking about in the beginning, the asbestos insulating board soffits are more permanent solution for that. It could have been over clamming it with PVC and that probably would last for years, 20 years probably, you know in case material itself so encapsulation, few examples but if you want some real sort of protection is go to mechanical protection really. Ian:      Yeah, definitely. Neil:    Longevity for materials. Ian:      Like I said earlier it horse for courses so it depends on what you’re doing and what area it’s in and what you need it to do. Neil:    How long you want it to last and how much you want to spend.          Ian:      Yeah, exactly that. Neil:    You know, if it is a building that you know in the future is going to be refurbed or might be demolished etcetera probably not going to want to spend loads protecting material. You just got to sort of weigh up those. Ian:      No. Just kind of the risk versus the need versus what’s actually the lifetime of that. Neil:    Exactly. And with that example it will be asbestos insulating boards soffits on the external, up high level. You don’t really need any impact protection. Ian:      And also with that, I mean, like you said they are really hang up on the idea of it’s got to be ET150. Well, it doesn’t. I mean there’s plenty of external. Neil:    Yeah, external masonry paint would could have been a better solution. You could even go, you know, a layer of coating of ET150 to give it that impact protection and asbestos protection and then maybe overcoating it with external masonry just to give it that weather proofing. Ian:      And that’s the key there like the point is like you said like it bubbled because it getting water damage and the rest it all  ET150 is not going to stop that. The only thing that’s going to stop that from happening is weather protecting it. Neil:    And sometimes it is so you’ve got to look at is there another reason for that, and it might have been that water can ingress from, and there’s some small crack somewhere or could have been the fixtures that were actually letting water through so water is getting in behind the soffits against through, yeah, soaking through the soffit, so it is actually coming from on top as opposed to from underneath. Ian:      Well, in my house, recently I had a leak and it came in from, I don’t even know, it just came in. It has found its way in and that’s the problem of where it does. Neil:    Yeah, it will find its course don’t it. Ian:      Yeah, part of the least resistance. Neil:    That’s it definitely. Ian:      Have you found that one interesting. You’ve learned a bit about encapsulation and the fact that yes ET150 is the common industry standard go to but it is not necessarily the required one. You should just choose the best encapsulation for the job and what’s going to be better in the long run. Neil:    I see. I think the important thing is to make sure that whatever you do use is adequate for what you need it to. Ian:      It’s got to be fit for purpose. Neil:    Fit for purpose, and putting cost because you might have to end spending more in line. Ian:      Yup, so that’s just for now and remember asbestos first not last.      

In this episode Neil and Ian discuss the types of asbestos encapsulation. The commonly available encapsulation methods are: <ul> <li>Mechanical Encapsulation</li> <li>High Build Elastomeric Coating</li> <li>Penetrating Encapsulants</li> <li>Water Based Epoxy Resins</li> </ul> Transcript Ian:      Welcome to the Asbestos Knowledge Empire. I’m Ian Stone. Neil:    I’m Neil Munro. So today we are going to talk about asbestos and encapsulating asbestos materials, so we had a bit of a situation where one of our clients and they are looking to encapsulate some external asbestos. So asbestos insulating board soffits and the question they kind of raised was what do they have to encapsulate those materials with. So in their minds they’ve heard about the different materials and different products that run the market for encapsulating materials, so they adamantly know it have to be ET150 which is and will explain going to a bit more detail of exactly what it is. But it is a product that is common in they are used to encapsulate asbestos materials within the asbestos industry. So the external asbestos insulating boards soffits, fixated in their minds that it had to be two coats of ET150. That’s an okay material to use but it sorts of boil into question, how long would that actually last on the external of the property because it is actually not an external product, and it would face will it be on the outside, below the roof and there is gutters that’s sort of the soffits so that is going to be weathered and susceptible to a lot of rain and wind etcetera on the outside of the building. And they’ve already previously done called a lot of these encapsulating works throughout this property. Ian:      What do they do? Neil:    There is evidence that the ET150 that they have previously used has weathered, has starting to peel, starting to bubble. Ian:      Which that doesn’t surprise me. Neil:    Yeah. Ian:      Because like you say like the ET150 is elastomeric sealing. It dries with like a rubberize finish so that’s kind of our go to as an industry. Neil:    It is a perfect product for… Ian:      Stuff inside. Neil:    Yes, stuff inside, so Ian:      Or in walls. Neil:    Yeah, walls, asbestos insulating boards, ceiling, walls, paneling fabrics. Ian:      But like you say it is not an external paint. It is not an exterior paint. Neil:    No. It is perfect inside because it doesn’t get any weathering, doesn’t get any rain on it, gives it some impact protection. Doesn’t peel when it is dry. It can take a bit of vapor so in boiler rooms where there’s a bit of steam. It is okay for that. But when we are talking about wind, rain, hail, snow, temperatures constantly going up and down like freezing. Ian:      Yeah. But in their mind they just heard that’s ET150 is the asbestos paint. Neil:    It’s got to be that because that’s what you use for asbestos, and it’s all brought about big question is. Ian:      What can you actually use? Neil:    What can you actually use and do you have to use that? Ian:      Okay. We got a few that we’re going to run through of different ones that you can use and can be use, and it is kind of horses for courses. It is different products are better for different things. Neil:    We actually scan [unclear – 03:27] and even asbestos contractors guide as well. There is no specification. Ian:      No. The only that kind of mentioned was in essentials where it talks about a non. Neil:    Yeah, asbestos essential. There is a task sheet for encapsulating asbestos cement and it just said a low solvent. Ian:      That’s it, low solvent, which that is kind of a standard practice anyway because... Neil:    Yeah, that is a non-descript.   Ian:      That’s coming at it from the health and safety point of view of high solvent paints so give more dangerous to your health, more risk of being more flammable, etcetera. So yeah, there are different thing that you can use. You can use normal house paints. Start kind of the lower end of the scale. Neil:    More emulsion.         Ian:      Yeah, bit of emulsion. Slap it on there. It will cover it. It will seal it at exactly the same way. The thing with kind of standard paints is you’ll get a better finish that than you would… That’s the only thing with. Neil:    Pick the color you want. Ian:      Yeah pick the color you want. Get ET150 it comes in white, grey. Neil:    Dark grey.    Ian:      Dark grey, yeah. And you’re in the realms of like took in other colors into mix with it which it is never ideal. Neil:    Yeah, we’ve removed emulsion obviously it is quite thin so particularly if you are encapsulating a friable material wouldn’t it take quite a few coats so and say to actually get a decent seal on it. Ian:      Even if you’re spraying it, it would. Whether you are spraying it or painting it with like brushes or rollers it definitely. Neil:    You need a good few coats probably just to actually seal it in particular like AIB where you have actually got fibers sticking out of the material. Ian:      You think of like when you are doing any decorating in your house like when you paint it. I mean it is brilliant one coat, makes me laugh every time. One coat, well, always needs two coats doesn’t it. Have you ever used the pink stuff? You paint it pink and it goes white. I’ve used that. Again, you still need more and you still miss a bit. That might be just me because I’m crap at decorating. Neil:    DIY specialist. Ian:      Yes, so you can use those. Now, the downside of using emulsion, like I said the upside is you get a better finish and you get the color you want. The downside is that there is no kind of impact protection there. Neil:    No. Ian:      That’s the problem, and that’s why when you ratchet it upon the next one on the scale is the ET150. Neil:    And particularly I suppose it depends on what kind of emulsion so like standard emulsion, you can wipe that off with a cloth quite easily so it is not really going to give you any protection over than it might just stick the fibers down to the material a bit, that’s been unsealed. Obviously if you have got like clean ones or something that’s a bit more. Ian:      Like the satin finish or whatever. Again, that gives you a little bit more… Neil:    A little bit stronger, sort of a stronger finish. Ian:      Yeah, but when you compare that like I say to the next one on the list which is ET150 that is where it comes into its own and that is why as an industry we use it a lot. It is a thick paint, it dries. Neil:    Compared to emulsion, yeah. If you’re looking at that emulsion that’s of ET15. ET150 looks more like paste, doesn’t it? It is real thick sort of paint. Ian:      It is fantastic and it does the job great. Like I said earlier you can encapsulate boiler room walls, ceilings, paint big panels of asbestos insulating boards, paint pipe work with it, whatever, and it goes on nice and thick. It covers really well. Once it is dry it does give a little bit of impact protection because it’s got that kind of rubberized finish. Neil:    Yeah, another thing I would say you’re not going to get a decorative finish. Ian:      That’s exactly where I was going with that. The finish is never meant. Neil:    Yeah, It is sealed. Ian:      Exactly, yeah. And there is a different job between painting like for aesthetics and painting for sealing the asbestos. And even if you got a painter and decorator in was asbestos trained to do that you still not going to get the finish that you would with normal stuff. Neil:    How many contractors you had say, no decorate mate. Ian:      Every single one. That’s a classic line. Yes, so that’s the only problem or the only downside but I mean most of the time when it is boiler rooms, back of house, all the rest of it, as long as it looks half decent and it is sealing the area. I mean don’t get me wrong you can get a good finish. It doesn’t always have to look like a dog’s dinner. Neil:    I was going to say like with big areas where contractors and sprayer applied it which involves watering the material down so it can be sprayable but they have to do a few more coats. You know, two coats is usually not enough so they end up doing three or four coats to get that protection layer but it is a smoother finish. It is a smoother finish whereas if you hand brushing it on you get extra on so you end up with a thicker layer but it does look a little bit rough. So it is important to bear in mind that if you’re encapsulating asbestos materials when somewhere where you want to look pretty. Ian:      Yeah, if you think about like on the entrance to a building or reception are or something. Neil:    Potentially not going to have a nice finish on that. Ian:      No. Not if they can’t spray it at least. But that said like I said that is the standard go to within our industry for those reasons but like we said it doesn’t necessarily have to be that. So the next one down on the list is like a penetrating encapsulant. See this kind of, again, they soak in to the material more. They give an even more protection because they kind of soak up into it and therefore that protection factor. Neil:    That comes a layer part of the layer on. Ian:      Yeah, becomes like a layer on the outside itself, and it is good for more friable asbestos types really. There is a few on the market. Neil:    But again that’s all on the application process where not being applied correctly and having the correct amount of layers building upon the material. Ian:      And the experience because when you’re working with these materials, I mean, like we say anybody can paint a wall, right. So yeah, fine, using emulsion, that’s fine. Using an ET150 that’s fine. When you start using the penetrating encapsulants you need to know how much of a layer you are putting on. How long that you are leaving it, how many coats you are giving it, the gaps and times in between because that can all affect because the last thing you want to do is encapsulate the substrate and then that causes damage to the actual asbestos. Neil:    Yeah. And there is obviously a cost difference between those and the ET150 as well. So that’ something to bear in mind and if you are encapsulating a lot of asbestos materials that’s going to increase, you know, it’s going to have a multiple… Ian:      And there is another one as well which is water base epoxy resins. Now they are available kind of either as a resin finish itself, so whereas kind of like the penetrating encapsulant, it will finish over the material and usually give like a cloudy or a clear finish. But also you can get them where you use like a chopped strand mat that goes into the mix as well. And again, that gives you a real high impact and high protection that’s kind of it becomes easier to use, easier to manage, it is cleanable. Neil:    Yeah, it kinds of give you a cleanable surface afterwards. Ian:      But again that even more so than the penetrating ones. That’s an even more difficult material to use and to get the right finish on.      Neil:    Yeah, paint wise, yeah. So that’s kind of covering the actual encapsulating material but if you want to go to the next level and that sort of add into mechanical encapsulations in the HSE. You can actually build something around the materials and that could be anything. Ian:      Exactly that. I mean, it doesn’t have to be painted to be encapsulated. It could be a… Neil:    Box in with plaster board or anything. Yeah, aluminum casings or…  Ian:      Seen the results over the years like boarding directly applied on like Supalax, stuff like that. What you said… Neil:    Yeah, put board and AIB, asbestos insulating board. Ian:      Plyboard in the boxing out, plaster board in and around it, metal sheeting put directly over it like panels put straight over it. Yeah, tin going around pipes, even wrapping with kind of fiber glass and [unclear – 10:53] wrapping them up. Again, this is all form of encapsulation. Neil:    Yeah. Again, going back to what I was talking about in the beginning, the asbestos insulating board soffits are more permanent solution for that. It could have been over clamming it with PVC and that probably would last for years, 20 years probably, you know in case material itself so encapsulation, few examples but if you want some real sort of protection is go to mechanical protection really. Ian:      Yeah, definitely. Neil:    Longevity for materials. Ian:      Like I said earlier it horse for courses so it depends on what you’re doing and what area it’s in and what you need it to do. Neil:    How long you want it to last and how much you want to spend.          Ian:      Yeah, exactly that. Neil:    You know, if it is a building that you know in the future is going to be refurbed or might be demolished etcetera probably not going to want to spend loads protecting material. You just got to sort of weigh up those. Ian:      No. Just kind of the risk versus the need versus what’s actually the lifetime of that. Neil:    Exactly. And with that example it will be asbestos insulating boards soffits on the external, up high level. You don’t really need any impact protection. Ian:      And also with that, I mean, like you said they are really hang up on the idea of it’s got to be ET150. Well, it doesn’t. I mean there’s plenty of external. Neil:    Yeah, external masonry paint would could have been a better solution. You could even go, you know, a layer of coating of ET150 to give it that impact protection and asbestos protection and then maybe overcoating it with external masonry just to give it that weather proofing. Ian:      And that’s the key there like the point is like you said like it bubbled because it getting water damage and the rest it all  ET150 is not going to stop that. The only thing that’s going to stop that from happening is weather protecting it. Neil:    And sometimes it is so you’ve got to look at is there another reason for that, and it might have been that water can ingress from, and there’s some small crack somewhere or could have been the fixtures that were actually letting water through so water is getting in behind the soffits against through, yeah, soaking through the soffit, so it is actually coming from on top as opposed to from underneath. Ian:      Well, in my house, recently I had a leak and it came in from, I don’t even know, it just came in. It has found its way in and that’s the problem of where it does. Neil:    Yeah, it will find its course don’t it. Ian:      Yeah, part of the least resistance. Neil:    That’s it definitely. Ian:      Have you found that one interesting. You’ve learned a bit about encapsulation and the fact that yes ET150 is the common industry standard go to but it is not necessarily the required one. You should just choose the best encapsulation for the job and what’s going to be better in the long run. Neil:    I see. I think the important thing is to make sure that whatever you do use is adequate for what you need it to. Ian:      It’s got to be fit for purpose. Neil:    Fit for purpose, and putting cost because you might have to end spending more in line. Ian:      Yup, so that’s just for now and remember asbestos first not last.

What does asbestos have to be encapsulated with? 

In this episode Neil and Ian talk about asbestos sprayed coatings and problems that can be encountered during its removal.

In this episode Neil and Ian talk about asbestos sprayed coatings and problems that can be encountered during its removal.

Asbestos spray coatings and problems with its removal

In this episode Neil and Ian discuss points surrounding the risks and highlight points to consider when undertaking asbestos removal works within lofts. Points to consider:  Occupants below Decanting during the works or for longer periods, issues the client faces for rehousing office workers Risks carrying out the work Working tethers Fall arrest systems Restrictions in gaining access e.g. if the tether is to the main beam how can they reach the sides of the apex Working platforms and boarding out the lofts Gaining access to the pitch in the loft space – towers in the loft Fall arrest requirements below I netting?  Can be negated by use of tethers to tools and equipment Issues around if there is a breach how can this be contained, and the rooms cleaned? Will the area be asbestos free at the end of the works? Depends on voids – can they be fully cleaned Can all surfaces be cleaned or will they need encapsulating? How any asbestos remaining may affect the future works e.g. fixing into the ceiling? 

In this episode Neil and Ian discuss points surrounding the risks and highlight points to consider when undertaking asbestos removal works within lofts. Points to consider: <ul> <li>Occupants below</li> <li>Decanting during the works or for longer periods, issues the client faces for rehousing office workers</li> <li>Risks carrying out the work</li> <li>Working tethers</li> <li>Fall arrest systems</li> <li>Restrictions in gaining access e.g. if the tether is to the main beam how can they reach the sides of the apex</li> <li>Working platforms and boarding out the lofts</li> <li>Gaining access to the pitch in the loft space – towers in the loft</li> <li>Fall arrest requirements below I netting?  Can be negated by use of tethers to tools and equipment</li> <li>Issues around if there is a breach how can this be contained, and the rooms cleaned?</li> <li>Will the area be asbestos free at the end of the works?</li> <li>Depends on voids – can they be fully cleaned</li> <li>Can all surfaces be cleaned or will they need encapsulating?</li> <li>How any asbestos remaining may affect the future works e.g. fixing into the ceiling?</li> </ul>

Issues around asbestos removal works in lofts and attics

In this episode Neil and Ian mark the 20th year anniversary of the final asbestos ban in the UK and review the latest statistics surrounding asbestos related diseases.

In this episode Neil and Ian mark the 20th year anniversary of the final asbestos ban in the UK and review the latest statistics surrounding asbestos related diseases.

20 Year Anniversary and Latest Statistics

Paul Knights

In this episode Ian and Neil are joined by asbestos expert Paul Knights as he shares his opinion and knowledge surrounding the asbestos industry and asbestos management in general.  Paul Knights as over 20 year's experience working within the asbestos consultancy and asbestos removal industry.  Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-knights-1601673b/

In this episode Ian and Neil are joined by asbestos expert Paul Knights as he shares his opinion and knowledge surrounding the asbestos industry and asbestos management in general.  Paul Knights as over 20 year's experience working within the asbestos consultancy and asbestos removal industry.  Linkedin: <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-knights-1601673b/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-knights-1601673b/</a>

Interview with asbestos expert – Paul Knights

In this episode Neil and Ian discuss what you need to look out for as a dutyholder / asbestos Project Manager / Asbestos Consultant on your asbestos removal projects.

In this episode Neil and Ian discuss what you need to look out for as a dutyholder / asbestos Project Manager / Asbestos Consultant on your asbestos removal projects.

Pointers for asbestos projects

Asbestos Project Case Study

In this episode Ian and Neil discuss the six things you need to know when reviewing your asbestos information. 1) Historical information - what information do we mean 2) Survey reports - what determines a good report  3) Removal paperwork - what have you got what story does it tell  4) What are you doing with all of this information and how to record it 5) Review of the findings - look at it overall and pinpoint holes 6) What next - plan and prioritise asbestos issues you have info on and sites where you don’t have info on.

In this episode Ian and Neil discuss the six things you need to know when reviewing your asbestos information. 1) Historical information - what information do we mean 2) Survey reports - what determines a good report  3) Removal paperwork - what have you got what story does it tell  4) What are you doing with all of this information and how to record it 5) Review of the findings - look at it overall and pinpoint holes 6) What next - plan and prioritise asbestos issues you have info on and sites where you don’t have info on.

The six things you need to know when reviewing your asbestos information

In this episode Ian and Neil discuss what contractors undertaking asbestos non licensed works must have to comply with the asbestos regulations and if air monitoring is a requirement whilst undertaking these works.

In this episode Ian and Neil discuss what contractors undertaking asbestos non licensed works must have to comply with the asbestos regulations and if air monitoring is a requirement whilst undertaking these works.

What you need to know about non licensed asbestos contractors

In this episode Neil and Ian answer a question sent in from the asbestos knowledge empire community. What’s the difference between non licensed works and notifiable non licensed works? They provide examples of typical non licensed works, what may affect these and make them notifiable. Transcript: Ian:      Welcome to Asbestos Knowledge Empire. I am Ian Stone. Neil:    And I’m Neil Munro. So today we are going to talk about, we have a question that came in from some of the Asbestos Knowledge Empire Facebook community and they ask what’s the difference between non-licensed works and notifiable non-licensed works. And particularly attention between why does it change? So for instance why is the material that is non-licensed suddenly turn into a notifiable work? So we kind of want to answer those questions today. So essentially what it is, why is the material that is non-licensed during removal suddenly become notifiable? So why it’s kind of cover that off in today’s podcast. Just to kind of differentiate so we’ll know where we’re at. It is kind of the three levels of removal: non-licensed non-notifiable, non-licensed but notifiable, and then the fully licensed and fully notifiable asbestos work. The third category is for the higher risk, high fiber content stuffs such as logging, insulating boards, sprays, that types of stuff. We are not talking about that today. Today, we are talking about the lowest materials, the asbestos cement, the textured coatings, that kind of stuff. Aren’t we? Ian:      Yeah, volatiles. It might be a cement flow pipe, those types of lower risk sort of asbestos bound of into matrix type of materials. Neil:    So first off, non-notifiable non-licensed removal would look like say a garage roof, cement garage roof, corrugated garage roof it’s in a good condition upon reviewing the contract to has a look and decides that’s not likely to disintegrate or deteriorate during the removal process. They can crop the bolts easily, removes the sheets easily, place them down and wrap them and essentially it is kind of like removing a cement sheet whole that is in a good condition. Ian:      Yup. Neil:    Minimal breakage, minimal risk kind of altogether really so that is non-licensed non-notifiable work. Ian:      Yeah, so to give you another example so you’ve got asbestos texture coating has been applied to a plaster board ceiling. Generally speaking the removal of that is the contractor won’t remove as much as possible whole sheets of the plaster board, so they will be hoist from their fixings lifted down to the floor, wrapped up and disposed of. So it will be some breakage of the texture coating but it will be minimal.           Neil:    Yeah, it is minimal because like you said the board and its hold and its entirety is pretty much removed.                     Ian:      Yeah, so essentially you are not removing really the actual asbestos product but more the product that has been applied to. So that would be classed as non-licensed. Now, to flip those two examples over so when would they become notfifiable? Neil:    Well, let’s take the garage roof example for instance. If you look at the garage roof and before you start works it is already deteriorated. You can see it is notifiable. You can see it is damaged. You can see it looks brittle. Ian:      Yeah, one of those [unclear – 3:51] ones so it’s really gone, you know, it’s really been suffered severe damage from weather you know. It has been, had moss grown on it and it stands really deteriorated and become weak and brittle. Neil:    Yeah, so if you look at it and you think that will straight away, a lot of bell should ring because when you touch that, when you start man handling that you know it is going to breakup. Ian:      Yes, it is going to start. It is snapping in your hands really isn’t it? Neil:    Yeah, so straight away that would become notifiable before the job starts. Ian:      Yeah, another example is if it was a roof that had been maybe I don’t know over clad or it is been sometimes they used to apply, and I have seen this on a lot of domestics, where it is been uses shattering as well and you’d have to break the material out so that would then be classed as notifiable where you get some sort of machinery, maybe a small hand can go just to sort of break that material up. You are basically disturbing the matrix of the material and you degrade the actual asbestos material to actually remove it. So the texture coating example how would that become notifiable? Neil:    So again the texture coating, so the same asbestos material but it’s been applied to a different scenario so for instance where you’ve got either a concrete ceiling or it’s been applied to a wall, you know. That maybe a plastered wall or it may be a brick or [unclear – 5:08] wall. Ian:      So literally the texture coating straight on the surface of the wall not on plaster board or anything like that, straight unto the hard surface. Neil:    So it completely change the removal process because you can’t remove it whole. You can’t remove it on the whole sheet. You’ve not got to go into either a scrape pin or mechanical removal process. So if it’s been applied to some plaster on the wall it is quite easy to sort of chip the plaster of but you have to use either hand tools or mechanical process to actually break that material off. And as you can imagine it is really sort of messy process. You are going to completely destroy the actual matrix of the asbestos material to get that off, that then just become a higher risk removal process. And for instance it’s been applied to a concrete ceiling you are then looking at either using sort of removal gels, chemicals to obviously loosen that material off and it is literally just scraping off the surface so again you’re completely breaking down the matrix of the asbestos material itself therefore making it a slightly higher risk removal process and therefore it falls into the notifiable class crew. Just a couple of examples of the difference between those. We’ve talked about the actual notification process so the works have to be notified before they are starting that, that could be anytime wherever it is a month, a week or even just five minutes before the works start. There is a couple of additional things at the actual contractor or the employer of the contractor need to do if it is undertaken notifiable works and that’s medical surveillance and keeping the health records for those individuals. There is a bit more to it and generally speaking if you are employing non-licensed contractors definitely the works fall into notifiable category. You need to be asking are they suitable for doing those works because they are generally a little bit high risk. They are high risk I mean for both non-notifiable, notifiable works the contractor needs to have similar things in place as well which often get overlooked and I never spoke about this on previous podcast but just a bit of a recap, insurances, risk assessments, plans of works, face fit, testing for the guys and the masks. Ian:      You have to check in certified equipments. It is a real biggie, and you make sure there are DOP tests on the [unclear – 7:16] and stuff like that and that’s really important. Because just going back to those jobs, you know, especially texture coating ones the removal process on those they are horrible jobs especially when you are using chemicals to remove it from the texture coating. These jobs are really horrible and they are messy. Neil:    It is labor intensive. It is literally a cold phase scraping it off. Ian:      Scraping it off because of the wet material it just goes everywhere. It flops everywhere. Now, if these contractors are not geared for that butt up work you can get into all sorts of problems with this texture coatings basically just goes everywhere. If it is not being [unclear – 7:48] the enclosure. Essentially you can’t do those works really without if not full enclosure. So non-licensed, just normal standard non-licensed contractors, they are not generally geared up for building enclosures. Neil:    Unless you could point actually because when you think about it asbestos contractors that build enclosures day in and day out. It is cooler than art form. If anybody has ever had to go try a layout big thousand gauge pulley so it is meet or delete. It covers everything. It is a pain in the ass. It is a real real difficult. Ian:      Yeah, because you have to get the sheet in crisp because if you don’t you get stuff stuck in place. It just corrects automatically. Neil:    Yeah, in the folds and the rest of it and then you take it all down and before you know they shit all over the floor because you didn’t see it. Because literally that texture coating just goes everywhere, yeah. I would always recommend using the licensed contractor but particularly we’re the notifiable non-licensed stuff. Again, ever more of a reason to use a licensed contractor. The set up for that they are geared up for it for any eventually whereas the non-licensed contractors if something does go wrong, or it does go right, not according to plan, well, they might have to stop the job and come back to it or get another contractor in which could be a pain because they are not set up for it. Ian:      And they are going to fold to the background knowledge as well. There is occasions where non-licensed works can slip into the licensed category depending on the material they are working on and the removal process. There are occasions where you can slip into that category. And if you’ve got a licensed contractor on the job they are going have to acknowledge the background. They are going to have previous experience in doing those works. They are going to have the air monitoring results to backup that up and they are professionals it’s what they do day in and day out. Yeah, remember, asbestos first not last.

In this episode Neil and Ian answer a question sent in from the asbestos knowledge empire community. What’s the difference between non licensed works and notifiable non licensed works? They provide examples of typical non licensed works, what may affect these and make them notifiable. Transcript: Ian:      Welcome to Asbestos Knowledge Empire. I am Ian Stone. Neil:    And I’m Neil Munro. So today we are going to talk about, we have a question that came in from some of the Asbestos Knowledge Empire Facebook community and they ask what’s the difference between non-licensed works and notifiable non-licensed works. And particularly attention between why does it change? So for instance why is the material that is non-licensed suddenly turn into a notifiable work? So we kind of want to answer those questions today. So essentially what it is, why is the material that is non-licensed during removal suddenly become notifiable? So why it’s kind of cover that off in today’s podcast. Just to kind of differentiate so we’ll know where we’re at. It is kind of the three levels of removal: non-licensed non-notifiable, non-licensed but notifiable, and then the fully licensed and fully notifiable asbestos work. The third category is for the higher risk, high fiber content stuffs such as logging, insulating boards, sprays, that types of stuff. We are not talking about that today. Today, we are talking about the lowest materials, the asbestos cement, the textured coatings, that kind of stuff. Aren’t we? Ian:      Yeah, volatiles. It might be a cement flow pipe, those types of lower risk sort of asbestos bound of into matrix type of materials. Neil:    So first off, non-notifiable non-licensed removal would look like say a garage roof, cement garage roof, corrugated garage roof it’s in a good condition upon reviewing the contract to has a look and decides that’s not likely to disintegrate or deteriorate during the removal process. They can crop the bolts easily, removes the sheets easily, place them down and wrap them and essentially it is kind of like removing a cement sheet whole that is in a good condition. Ian:      Yup. Neil:    Minimal breakage, minimal risk kind of altogether really so that is non-licensed non-notifiable work. Ian:      Yeah, so to give you another example so you’ve got asbestos texture coating has been applied to a plaster board ceiling. Generally speaking the removal of that is the contractor won’t remove as much as possible whole sheets of the plaster board, so they will be hoist from their fixings lifted down to the floor, wrapped up and disposed of. So it will be some breakage of the texture coating but it will be minimal.           Neil:    Yeah, it is minimal because like you said the board and its hold and its entirety is pretty much removed.                     Ian:      Yeah, so essentially you are not removing really the actual asbestos product but more the product that has been applied to. So that would be classed as non-licensed. Now, to flip those two examples over so when would they become notfifiable? Neil:    Well, let’s take the garage roof example for instance. If you look at the garage roof and before you start works it is already deteriorated. You can see it is notifiable. You can see it is damaged. You can see it looks brittle. Ian:      Yeah, one of those [unclear – 3:51] ones so it’s really gone, you know, it’s really been suffered severe damage from weather you know. It has been, had moss grown on it and it stands really deteriorated and become weak and brittle. Neil:    Yeah, so if you look at it and you think that will straight away, a lot of bell should ring because when you touch that, when you start man handling that you know it is going to breakup. Ian:      Yes, it is going to start. It is snapping in your hands really isn’t it? Neil:    Yeah, so straight away that would become notifiable before the job starts. Ian:      Yeah, another example is if it was a roof that had been maybe I don’t know over clad or it is been sometimes they used to apply, and I have seen this on a lot of domestics, where it is been uses shattering as well and you’d have to break the material out so that would then be classed as notifiable where you get some sort of machinery, maybe a small hand can go just to sort of break that material up. You are basically disturbing the matrix of the material and you degrade the actual asbestos material to actually remove it. So the texture coating example how would that become notifiable? Neil:    So again the texture coating, so the same asbestos material but it’s been applied to a different scenario so for instance where you’ve got either a concrete ceiling or it’s been applied to a wall, you know. That maybe a plastered wall or it may be a brick or [unclear – 5:08] wall. Ian:      So literally the texture coating straight on the surface of the wall not on plaster board or anything like that, straight unto the hard surface. Neil:    So it completely change the removal process because you can’t remove it whole. You can’t remove it on the whole sheet. You’ve not got to go into either a scrape pin or mechanical removal process. So if it’s been applied to some plaster on the wall it is quite easy to sort of chip the plaster of but you have to use either hand tools or mechanical process to actually break that material off. And as you can imagine it is really sort of messy process. You are going to completely destroy the actual matrix of the asbestos material to get that off, that then just become a higher risk removal process. And for instance it’s been applied to a concrete ceiling you are then looking at either using sort of removal gels, chemicals to obviously loosen that material off and it is literally just scraping off the surface so again you’re completely breaking down the matrix of the asbestos material itself therefore making it a slightly higher risk removal process and therefore it falls into the notifiable class crew. Just a couple of examples of the difference between those. We’ve talked about the actual notification process so the works have to be notified before they are starting that, that could be anytime wherever it is a month, a week or even just five minutes before the works start. There is a couple of additional things at the actual contractor or the employer of the contractor need to do if it is undertaken notifiable works and that’s medical surveillance and keeping the health records for those individuals. There is a bit more to it and generally speaking if you are employing non-licensed contractors definitely the works fall into notifiable category. You need to be asking are they suitable for doing those works because they are generally a little bit high risk. They are high risk I mean for both non-notifiable, notifiable works the contractor needs to have similar things in place as well which often get overlooked and I never spoke about this on previous podcast but just a bit of a recap, insurances, risk assessments, plans of works, face fit, testing for the guys and the masks. Ian:      You have to check in certified equipments. It is a real biggie, and you make sure there are DOP tests on the [unclear – 7:16] and stuff like that and that’s really important. Because just going back to those jobs, you know, especially texture coating ones the removal process on those they are horrible jobs especially when you are using chemicals to remove it from the texture coating. These jobs are really horrible and they are messy. Neil:    It is labor intensive. It is literally a cold phase scraping it off. Ian:      Scraping it off because of the wet material it just goes everywhere. It flops everywhere. Now, if these contractors are not geared for that butt up work you can get into all sorts of problems with this texture coatings basically just goes everywhere. If it is not being [unclear – 7:48] the enclosure. Essentially you can’t do those works really without if not full enclosure. So non-licensed, just normal standard non-licensed contractors, they are not generally geared up for building enclosures. Neil:    Unless you could point actually because when you think about it asbestos contractors that build enclosures day in and day out. It is cooler than art form. If anybody has ever had to go try a layout big thousand gauge pulley so it is meet or delete. It covers everything. It is a pain in the ass. It is a real real difficult. Ian:      Yeah, because you have to get the sheet in crisp because if you don’t you get stuff stuck in place. It just corrects automatically. Neil:    Yeah, in the folds and the rest of it and then you take it all down and before you know they shit all over the floor because you didn’t see it. Because literally that texture coating just goes everywhere, yeah. I would always recommend using the licensed contractor but particularly we’re the notifiable non-licensed stuff. Again, ever more of a reason to use a licensed contractor. The set up for that they are geared up for it for any eventually whereas the non-licensed contractors if something does go wrong, or it does go right, not according to plan, well, they might have to stop the job and come back to it or get another contractor in which could be a pain because they are not set up for it. Ian:      And they are going to fold to the background knowledge as well. There is occasions where non-licensed works can slip into the licensed category depending on the material they are working on and the removal process. There are occasions where you can slip into that category. And if you’ve got a licensed contractor on the job they are going have to acknowledge the background. They are going to have previous experience in doing those works. They are going to have the air monitoring results to backup that up and they are professionals it’s what they do day in and day out. Yeah, remember, asbestos first not last.

What’s the difference between non licensed works and notifiable non licensed works?

John Crockett

Today’s podcast is from a slightly different angle.  Neil and Ian are talking all about Health and Safety with an interview of John Crockett (IMaPS, SIIRSM RSP, ACIOB) who is the health and safety manager at Acorn.  They discuss about how Johns career has developed and the changes he’s seen over his long time in the industry.  John gives advice on what he’s seeing on a daily basis and how to combat these issues, plus the no1 thing that clients need to know about health and safety.  Plus a whole host of other chat in and around health and safety and asbestos.

Today’s podcast is from a slightly different angle.  Neil and Ian are talking all about Health and Safety with an interview of John Crockett (IMaPS, SIIRSM RSP, ACIOB) who is the health and safety manager at Acorn.  They discuss about how Johns career has developed and the changes he’s seen over his long time in the industry.  John gives advice on what he’s seeing on a daily basis and how to combat these issues, plus the no1 thing that clients need to know about health and safety.  Plus a whole host of other chat in and around health and safety and asbestos.

Interview John Crockett: What’s the outlook with Health and Safety? 

How do you get the right asbestos contractor?

In this episode Neil and Ian discuss the importance of a statements of cleanliness post non licensed asbestos works. When it should be completed, by who and what it should confirm.

In this episode Neil and Ian discuss the importance of a statements of cleanliness post non licensed asbestos works. When it should be completed, by who and what it should confirm.

Asbestos Works: Statement of Cleanliness

In this episode Neil and Ian interview Robin Bennett founding Director of Start Software. Robin provides a real insight to how asbestos software has advanced over the last 20 years and where it’s going. Robin Bennett is the founding director at Start Software and has been creating asbestos systems for 20 years.  The designer of SAM, Tracker and the market-leading Alpha Tracker systems, he has worked with most of the leading asbestos consultancies in the UK, Australia &amp; New Zealand.  Start Software’s offices in Adelaide (South Australia) and Telford (West Midlands, UK) enable them to support and sell Alpha Tracker around the world to all sizes and types of organisation with an interest in asbestos. Links to your website and social media sites UK: www.start-software.com Aus/NZ: www.alpha-tracker.com.au  blog: http://blog.start-software.com  Twitter: @startsoftware @alpha_tracker

In this episode Neil and Ian interview Robin Bennett founding Director of Start Software. Robin provides a real insight to how asbestos software has advanced over the last 20 years and where it’s going. Robin Bennett is the founding director at Start Software and has been creating asbestos systems for 20 years.  The designer of SAM, Tracker and the market-leading Alpha Tracker systems, he has worked with most of the leading asbestos consultancies in the UK, Australia &amp; New Zealand.  Start Software’s offices in Adelaide (South Australia) and Telford (West Midlands, UK) enable them to support and sell Alpha Tracker around the world to all sizes and types of organisation with an interest in asbestos. Links to your website and social media sites UK: <a href="http://www.start-software.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.start-software.com</a> Aus/NZ: <a href="http://www.alpha-tracker.com.au/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.alpha-tracker.com.au</a>  blog: <a href="http://blog.start-software.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://blog.start-software.com</a>  Twitter: <a href="https://twitter.com/startsoftware" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">@startsoftware</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/alpha_tracker" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">@alpha_tracker</a>

Robin Bennett: Neil and Ian interview founding Director of one of the leading asbestos software providers - Start Software

In this episode Neil and Ian talk about asbestos insulating board and problems that can be encountered during its removal.

In this episode Neil and Ian talk about asbestos insulating board and problems that can be encountered during its removal.

Asbestos insulating boards and problems with its removal

In this episode Ian and Neil provide a brief overview of what happens to asbestos waste following removal.

In this episode Ian and Neil provide a brief overview of what happens to asbestos waste following removal.

What happens to asbestos waste

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