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Leading Saints Podcast

Latter-day Saint (Mormon) Leadership Best Practices

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“I am a Young Single Adult Advocate” | An Interview with Rob Ferrell

Dr. Robert Ferrell has served as an elders quorum president, high councilor, YSA bishop, and YSA stake president, and has presented at firesides and conferences—including BYU Education Week—about connecting with young single adults. He grew up in the Bay Area of California but lives in Mountain Green, Utah, and is a periodontist working in the Ogden area. He has a bachelor's degree in psychology and a doctoral degree in dental surgery, and he and his wife are the parents of eight children.Highlights7:30 His call as a YSA stake president came while serving as a bishop, forming a new YSA stake11:00 He saw a need for a greater understanding of young adults today, and decided to present at BYU Education Week as an advocate for young adults13:10 Stigmas of the Millennial generation in and outside of the Church14:20 The Gospel of Jesus Christ does not lose people; the culture, tradition, false doctrine, and application loses people15:20 Creating a young adult program needs to start with a strong organizational structure16:00 Most wards are not aware of the problem with the activity rate among YSAs17:10 Priesthood keys and leadership have to be behind the leaders in a YSA program21:10 It can be easy to lose track of YSAs, and family wards need to work with YSA programs to focus on rescuing—most effective when the stake presidents work together with YSA leaders25:00 Worked with his area seventy and coordinating councils and were able to see great success with the programMultiple ward mission leaders were assigned to the stakes that funneled YSAs to their YSA ward, and senior adult couples assigned to be the bridge between the YSA ward and the home stake Returned missionaries are prepared to help rescue other YSAs27:25 Wanted as many of the less-active records as they could, so they could organize and reach out to rescue themFocused on organizational structure with leaders working together Ministering happened among the active members, YSA ward mission leaders handled the rest31:10 The organizational process has to be there to help young adults come unto Christ31:50 #1 cultural concept that must change: YSA wards are not about marriage, they don’t need to be reminded, and that message turns them away34:00 The purpose of the young single adult program is helping them connect with Jesus Christ36:40 YSA programs are not glorified YMYW programs, and activities need to be planned by the YSAs and be focused on things that help connect them to Christ40:15 Leadership by collaboration instead of control: turn it over to themThe Lord used young adults to restore the Church; they can be trusted with the YSA program45:10 Example of giving autonomy: Stake YSA Relief Society presidency recognized a pornography problem with the sisters and taught about it at ward conferences47:10 Encouraged the sisters to turn to their Relief Society president when they have a problem, and take it to the bishop when they are ready to repent49:30 Counsel given to him as the stake president was that you cannot rescue YSAs and then throw the book at themIs that approach too soft? Story of missionary who returned after less than a week in the MTC, due to sexual transgression1:00:30 The sins are a symptom of a more serious doctrinal problem and the purpose of discipline is to save the soul of the transgressor, not to punish1:04:00 Bishops and counselors need to be working on the same level so they can develop relationships with the YSA ward members1:05:00 Behavior vs. doctrine: sin is the consequence of Satan’s real purpose1:08:00 Leaders need to help them resolve contention in their lives1:10:45 Not knowing the meaning of worthiness is the greatest cause of contention1:16:00 Example of young woman who asked, “Where do I find joy?”1:18:35 Doctrine & Covenants 10: contention, worthiness, and false doctrine1:20:30 Doctrine is not black and white but progressional in nature...

1hr 31mins

2 Jun 2019

Rank #1

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Why We Married in the Temple After 20 Years in Same-Sex Relationships | An Interview With Bennett & Becky Borden

Transcript of Full Interview Available BelowBennett and Becky Borden are a married couple who both experience same-sex attraction and who were both in same-sex marriages and relationships for many years prior to returning to the LDS Church and prior to their marriage to each other. Bennett and Becky both grew up in the South in active LDS families. They met about 28 years ago when Bennett was a young man and served his mission in Becky's ward. Bennett became close with Becky's family and over they years they have remained friends. In their early 20s, both Bennett and Becky came out as gay, left the Church and went on to live a gay lifestyle for many years. After many years away they both decided separately they wanted to come back to the church. They met up at Becky's family reunion and knew they should get married. They returned to church attendance, were married and after time had their blessings restored and were sealed in the temple. A lot can be learned and gained from their amazing story, their relationships, their faith transition, their interactions with family and church leaders, and their spiritual experiences. 3:15 Bennett's upbringing 5:00 Becky's upbringing 7:30 Bennett's close relationship with Becky's family 8:00 After his mission, Bennett's first marriage to a woman 9:30 Bennett lives a gay lifestyle and stops going to church 10:30 Becky's journey coming out as gay 13:30 Their relationships with God as they left the church and lived the gay lifestyle 14:30 Bennett's experience studying other religions 16:00 Becky's experience joining several other churches 18:00 What can we learn from our crises of faith? 19:00 Every relationship has goodness to them 20:30 "The light and love of God shines everywhere"/Growth can happen even as we are lost 22:00 Becky's excommunication and the blessing of it 24:30 The thing that brought them back to the gospel 26:00 Bennett's same sex relationship and what brought him back 28:20 Becky and where she was as Bennett's relationship ended 31:00 Leaders and family members and how they reached out to Bennett and Becky while they were living a gay lifestyle 34:00 Love within church disciplinary councils 35:30 Bennett and Becky's friendship as they came back to the church 44:00 How to reconcile thoughts of going back to the church with being gay 45:00 Reading the scriptures assuming it's all true 48:00 Bennett and Becky decision to get married 50:00 Becky's experience meeting with her bishop to discuss coming back to church 53:20 Bennett's experience meeting with his bishop to discuss coming back to church 56:15 How Satan worked to keep them from coming back 57:00 Their marriage by a bishop in Washington D.C. 58:45 Bennett's ex-husband Richard joined the church 1:02:30 How to pray for a child with same sex attraction 1:08:00 How can leaders use Northstar to help them 1:09:00 Message to individuals wanting to come back to the churchLinks:North StarBennett & Becky's North Star Conference KeynoteBennett & Becky would love to connect with anyone who has questions or needs further support. You can reach them at their joint email: Bennettandbecky@gmail.comInterview TranscriptKurt Francom: [00:03:00] Today I’m in a beautiful Immigration Canyon with my good friends Bennett and Becky Borden. How are you two?Becky Borden: Doing great, thanks.Bennett Borden: Very well. Kurt Francom: I first met you two at the North Star Conference back in, what was that? March?Becky Borden: March.Kurt Francom: March of 2017. You were there. You were one of the keynotes, talking about your experience. Now, let’s just get you two in context. Bennett, we’ll start with you. How would you describe your upbringing, where you’re from and maybe what landed you on a mission? [00:03:30]Bennett Borden: Sure, thanks, Kurt. So I’m from a small town in Tennessee, outside of Knoxville,

1hr 14mins

20 Aug 2017

Rank #2

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Creating Engagement Through Ministering Interviews | An Interview with DeAnna Murphy

DeAnna Murphy is a leadership consultant, coach, facilitator, and speaker, and the founder/CEO of Strengths Strategy Inc. and its affiliate, People Acuity, where she consults businesses, coaches, and individuals. She was born in Provo, Utah, but grew up in Canada, and met her husband at Ricks College. They had three children and live in Minneapolis, Minnesota, where she has served as Stake Relief Society President.Highlights5:25 How do we help ourselves and others stay fully engaged?7:35 How can you understand your auxiliaries strength?8:10 How can we apply engagement at home?8:35 To be meaningfully engaged there must be a sense of connection, and an ability to understand your contribution and purpose alignment.12:00 Understand your role/purpose12:45 What is the bigger “why”?14:00 Doctrine and Covenants 43:8,9 The Lord teaches Joseph Smith by council15:20 Ask good questions/teach by council19:30 Get correct counsel on core principles.22:20 To feel alignment while teaching ask:What did you notice about that?What's important about that?What does that mean?What will you do? (How would you apply that?)Has anyone had an experience like that?24:15 John 17- Why does He want us to be one so badly? That my joy might be fulfilled in you.28:35 Which of these points in the lesson are important to Heavenly Father?30:45 The council creates interdependence.32:20 There is no engagement from a talking head.33:20 Co-dependence is the primary voice of us vs. them.34:15 There should not a be a “you people” in our church culture.36:20 Our value does not go up and down like the stock market.38:15 When people begin to see their value through the lens of strength they see God's DNA in them.39:00 We need to understand our identity, but have lost it41:50 If I'm not judging myself, I feel connected to other people and to God42:10 Four categories of strengthsStrategic ThinkingExecutingRelationship driven—Influencers—Relationship-builders50:30 We are drawn to those like us because they validate us, and afraid of those who are unlike us because we do not understand them.53:45 We disengage when our needs are not being met.54:30 What does my patriarchal blessing show me about my strengths?57:40 What can you count on me for? What do I need to feel confident?59:00 The power of one-on-one ministering1:00:00 During one-on-one interviews, pull up an extra chair for the Savior to sit with you as you minister1:00:50 Be okay with no knowing, and always pray with them.1:01:25 During the interviews ask them: How are you doing? What are you learning from the Spirit in your personal study? What are you learning in your assignment? These questions create connection.1:05:00 Finally, ask tell me about the people that you are serving and what do they need?1:06:15 Everyone is a "one" and there is great power in ministering and one-on-one interviews.1"06:55 Ask your children—even grown children—what the Spirit is teaching them.1:09:00 Experience with a group in Abu Dhabi learning six strengths strategies.1:16:45 Read Moses 1:6 with your name instead of Moses: He will magnify your gifts through HimLinksPrint version of Shift Up!: Strengths Strategies for Optimal LivingEbook version of Shift Up!: Strengths Strategies for Optimal LivingPeopleAcuity.comDeAnna's How I Lead interview: Mentoring Relief Society Presidents Through LoveClaiming Your Contribution (for missionaries)Gallup StrengthsFinder (CliftonStrengths Assessment)

1hr 22mins

25 Apr 2018

Rank #3

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What I Learned About Leadership When My 2nd Counselor Left the Church

In August of 2015 I was released as bishop, but my second counselor didn't show up to be release. I was concerned about what he was going through.

1hr 5mins

25 Oct 2016

Rank #4

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Being an Essentialism Bishop | An Interview with Greg McKeown

Greg McKeown has dedicated his career to discovering why some people break through to the next level—and others don’t. He has also dedicated himself to the gospel of Jesus Christ and currently serves as a bishop in Menlo Park, California.From Greg's online bio: "He has authored a remarkable book which was an instant New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestseller, Essentialism: The Disciplined Pursuit of Less. As well as frequently being the #1 Time Management book on Amazon, this book challenges core assumptions about achievement to get to the essence of what really drives success.""McKeown is the CEO of THIS Inc, a company whose mission is to assist people and companies to spend 80 percent of their time on the vital few rather than the trivial many. Clients include Adobe, Apple, Google, Facebook, Pixar, Salesforce.com, Symantec, Twitter, VMware and Yahoo!."In this interview we talk about how the principle of Essentialism apply to his calling as bishop and the culture at-large in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

1hr 7mins

16 Aug 2016

Rank #5

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Mentoring Relief Society Presidents Through Love | How I Lead: DeAnna Murphy

DeAnna Murphy serves as a Stake Relief Society President in Minneapolis, Minnesota. She also runs Strength Strategy where she consults businesses, coaches, and individuals.

1hr 17mins

29 Oct 2016

Rank #6

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Becoming a Master Interviewer | An Interview With David Farnsworth

David Farnsworth was a retired leadership and executive coach that spent years helping organization improve their interviewing skills through the 3D Interviewing method. He passed away in July 2020. In this episode David explains methods LDS leaders can use in order to improve the effectiveness of 1-to-1 interviews and class room teaching through effective questions.Episode Highlights: (7:15) Why do I want to develop my interviewing skills? The question is how do you see your role? Understanding the leader's role in an interaction(11:35) The Fundamentals Be sincerely interested in others. Reading others accurately. Having the vocabulary to articulate. Be willing to be authentic and consistent. Having a good sense of ourselves (self-awareness). Trust others in their ability to respond. Not seeing yourself as the expert, but to uncouple yourself from having all the answers.(17:45) Drawing the Cube exercise (22:00) The Art of Formulating Focused Questions Preparing questions in advance. Draft good questions. Try to put them in a logical order. Examine questions carefully and fine-tune them.(29:45) Active Listening Paraphrase in your own words what the other person has just said: Leaving the other person in control allows you find out how they think, what they're feeling, etc.Three levels of paraphrasing: What was said? (make sure you're clear about what they've said). How was it said? (for example, "I can see this is difficult for you..."). What was not said?Three reactions to paraphrasing - agreement, correction/clarification, or amplification. (44:20) Summarizing - different than paraphrasing. Pulling together the major points of the discussion or topic (your understanding of the discussion). Same three reactions to summarizing as paraphrasing (agreement, correction/clarification, or amplification).(52:45) Sequencing questions - Getting acquainted example. (55:00) Sequencing questions - Problem-solving example. (58:50) Sequencing questions - Classroom example. (67:00) How can I start interviewing using the 3D-I model? "After Action Review

1hr 17mins

22 Oct 2017

Rank #7

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The Art of Teaching Latter-day Saints | An Interview with Hank Smith

Dr. Hank Smith has taught seminary, institute, and now teaches at Brigham Young University. He is a regular speaker at religious programs, corporate training events, school assemblies, and educational conferences. He is a master teacher and in this episode, he shares with us some of his secrets and tactics that we can all apply to improve our teaching. This interview was originally part of the Leading Saints Teaching Saints Virtual Summit.Transcription Available BelowHighlights4:45 Start with remembering why you are teaching: Genesis 44:34 How can we go back to Heavenly Father without these students?7:00 Teaching is like art: There are fundamentals but otherwise everyone's art is different. Get the fundamentals and then play to your strengths.10:45 What to do when a discussion is not happeningWrite out your questions beforehand Add "Why do you think...?" when asking a question Build-in the silence so it isn't awkward Let people know you're going to ask them Avoid the easy questions Be authentic about wanting a discussion18:30 Look at examples of the Savior teaching: John 4Set them up to get their attention Know your students and make it relevant to them Bring up testimony at the right moment25:30 More effective when teaching by a one-by-one ministry29:20 Watch for moments to get to, rather than getting through material30:30 Using gratitude and praise33:45 Collect and use stories38:25 Prepare until you're excited39:50 Mark 2: four people working together to carry a man to Jesus42:45 How to share scripturesPower in translating it into modern language, in word-for-word reading, and in summarizing Ask: did you understand? Read with enthusiasm and personality47:45 There's an ideal, but be okay with the realInterview TranscriptLeading Saints (LS): Welcome back to another session of the Teaching Saints Virtual Summit. This is one of the later recordings that we're doing, and it's been fun to see everything unfold, and people from around the world, thousands of individuals tuning in and hopefully gaining some insight on how to be better teachers in the church. Today I'm back on the campus of BYU, talking with Dr. Hank Smith. How are you?Hank Smith: Hello. Good to be with you, Kurt.LS: Now, tell the 10 people out there listening that have never heard of you, give them some background.Hank: Yes, the 10 out of the 11 who are listening. I've taught in [seminaries institutes? 00:00:52] for...it's been since 2000, so 18 years. I moved over to BYU in 2010, and I've taught here since then. [00:01:03] I work for Deseret Book a little bit, BYU Education Week, EFY, try to spread some goodness.LS: Nice, awesome. As I usually start out with, I want to imagine that we're in front of a room full of new gospel doctrine teachers, maybe seminary teachers, youth teachers, let's go through some points on improving teaching. But where do we start? What's a good jumping off point?Hank: I think for me, personally, I have to remember why we do what we do because it can get tiresome. And sometimes things don't go as well as planned, and you think, "Why do I even try," because it's not working. So you have to remember why. You come back to why.I have to go through my reasons why I do what I do, and in Genesis 44, Joseph is testing his brothers to see if they've changed. This is when he's in Egypt and they've come to Egypt for food, and he wants to see if they've changed, [00:02:03] and so he frames Benjamin. Most people have seen the play, haven't read the book, but most people know the play.LS: Which is a historically [acting].Hank: Right, right. Yeah, totally. They sing the songs right here in the chapters. But in Genesis 44, he said he's going to take Benjamin and put him in prison, and he's going to let the brothers go. And he says, "You can go." He wants to see; will they leave their little brother behind? If they do,


3 Sep 2018

Rank #8

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Women, Priesthood, & Church Leadership | An Interview with Barbara Morgan Gardner

Barbara Morgan Gardner is an associate professor of Church history and doctrine at Brigham Young University, and the author of The Priesthood Power of Women. Her research interests focus primarily on women in religious leadership, international education, and religious pedagogy. She holds a master's degree in educational leadership and foundations and a PhD in instructional psychology, and did post-doctoral work at Harvard University. Barbara was institute director in Boston, Massachusetts, serving more than 100 universities and colleges in the area and acting as chaplain at Harvard and MIT. She continues to serve as the chaplain-at-large in higher education for The Church, and on the BYU Interfaith Outreach Council. She and her husband, Dustin Gardner, live in Highland, Utah.Highlights05:40 - Why was the book written: to help women and understand what priesthood is09:25 - Barbara realized that many members and leaders didn’t separate the hierarchical structure of the priesthood and the patriarchal structure of the priesthood. She wanted to help women to understand the prophet has been asking us to learn more about the priesthood.10:00 - Barbara became more frustrated with women who are not interested in learning about the priesthood than those who are and who may even be unhappy.11:45 - Is this information on the priesthood power of women new, or would someone historical like David O.McKay be aware of it?13:00 - Are we shoehorning this doctrine into today’s culture because more women are asking questions?14:45 - Russell M. Nelson has been asking women to study and know this doctrine.16:50 - What is the difference between the hierarchical and patriarchal structure of the priesthood?19:10 - Why don’t we talk about the patriarchal structure of the priesthood?21:05 - Elder and Sister Renlund’s notions of Big Earth and Little Earth priesthood ties in23:40 - What are priesthood keys and who holds priesthood keys?28:50 - How are keys different relating to the hierarchical and patriarchal priesthoods? Who is “in charge” in a family? What does presiding mean in a family vs the church structure? Who has keys in a temple? In a mission?38:55 - What does it mean that keys will be revealed?39:20 - General priesthood keys vs keys of presiding41:15 - What priesthood keys do women have?43:10 - What can a key holder do in a ward to highlight and enable the priesthood power and authority of women?48:20 - List of questions that are found in the book49:30 - Who outranks whom when men and women have disagreements at church?50:35 - Someone has to preside, right?53:00 - One way priesthood holders diminish authority of women in their homes55:00 - How can we better understand and improve the revelatory process of submitting names for callings?1:02:10 - Women of this time have been prophesied about1:03:00 - It’s never a competition. Men can do more in partnership with women to save souls than they could alone.LinksThe Priesthood Power of Women: In the Temple, Church, and Family, by Barbara Morgan Gardner

1hr 7mins

2 Nov 2019

Rank #9

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The Why of Your Calling | An Interview with Wendy Ulrich

Wendy Ulrich, Ph.D., M.B.A., was a psychologist in private practice in Ann Arbor, Michigan for almost fifteen years before moving with her husband to Montreal (where he presided over the Canada Montreal Mission), then Alpine, Utah. She founded Sixteen Stones Center for Growth, which offers seminar-retreats for LDS women (sixteenstones.net). She is a mother and grandmother, a columnist for Deseret News, a former president of the Association of Mormon Counselors and Psychotherapist, and a business consultant with The RBL Group. Her books include Forgiving Ourselves, Weakness Is Not Sin, and national best seller The Why of Work, co-authored with her husband, Dave Ulrich.


21 Sep 2016

Rank #10

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Church Doctrine, Policy, & Leadership | An Interview with Prof. Anthony Sweat

Anthony Sweat is an assistant professor of Church History and Doctrine at BYU, teaching approximately 1000 students each semester. Previously he taught seminary and institute for 13 years. With an early interest in art he obtained a BFA from BYU before pursuing religious education, earning an M.Ed and Ph.D in curriculum and instruction from Utah State University. His sustained interest and skill in art provides him an avenue of expression that he often blends into his teaching of religion, especially by painting church history scenes previously undepicted. He has authored books including a recent one regarding the temple endowment. His outside interests include basketball and triathlon. Dr. Sweat and his wife Cindy are the parents of seven children.Highlights07:20 Discussion of what constitutes official Church doctrine? Doctrine of Christ; other doctrines.10:23 Culture or doctrine?13:00 Where do we find doctrine? Church handbooks, standard works, official correlated Church publications; Family Proclamation. Multiple witness concept versus “outliers.” Unanimous (by the Brethren) declarations. Cohesive, cumulative statements from Church leaders acting as the Lord’s agents. Reference to D&C 107:27.19:00 Types of doctrines. 2011 official Church statement during the campaign season involving presidential candidate Mitt Romney. What about a single statement by a single leader on a single occasion—binding? Avoid pitting one general authority against another. Are some doctrines more important than others? Are core doctrines unchangeable? What are “supportive doctrines” according to the model (four rings) developed by Dr. Sweat and his colleagues? Can faithful members have differing views on supportive doctrines? Progressing in the next life? Discussion of policies or doctrines that are authoritative, timely and unique to a given time period. Are they “mere policies?” Can they be clarified/amplified?30:13 Don’t try to get ahead of or undercut prophets/revelators. Scriptures authenticate that God honors His prophets. Example of tribes of Israel that were required to wait to receive the priesthood. Orthodox today but heterodox tomorrow. Brigham Young said Section 76 was a “great trial” to him, but he did not reject it and later understood.33:42 Fourth ring: “Esoteric doctrine” is obscured or ambiguous. Role of Mother in Heaven? Is Jesus married? Is there kingdom progression in the next life? What’s on sealed portion of Book of Mormon?34:33 Section 128:9 relates to receiving revelation and is “bold doctrine.” Prophets who hold sealing keys, acting truly and faithfully as the Lord’s agents, have the authority to record on earth and bind in heaven. The role of “agents.”39:51 Dealing with ambiguity in a church classroom setting. Clarity can come through the “wrestle.” Inviting discussion without straying from doctrine. Teaching what is declared and known without shutting off sincere comments about things that are not. “Managing opinions.” Listening without agreeing.49:30 Leaders need to be dialed into core doctrines and official policies.50:25 There are clearly things that have not yet been revealed. Embrace ambiguity. Just as artists don’t always reveal precisely what they had in mind in their work of art, God seems to want us to grow by wrestling with some things where only hints are provided. He wants “seekers” who ask and knock.53:35 Gratitude for Joseph’s role as a called, inspired, and revelatory prophet who nonetheless had mortal weaknesses. Each of us, though weak, can be instruments in the Lord’s hands.Linksanthonysweat.comInstagram: brotheranthonysweatThe Holy Invitation: Understanding Your Sacred Temple EndowmentDoctrine: Models to Evaluate Types and Sources of Latter-day Saint TeachingsApproaching Mormon Doctrine


11 Nov 2018

Rank #11

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Being a Sunday Mom | How I Lead as Primary President

In this episode of "How I Lead" we head back to Edmonton, Canada to speak with Danica Forsyth. Danica has been married for 7 years and is the mother of a 3 year old little daughter. Sister Forsyth was born and raised in Fort Macleod, Alberta before school took her to Edmonton where she met her husband. Through out her interview Danica discusses with us the challenges and blessings of serving in the primary for 7 years and most recently as the primary president. Danica is a registered nurse who works hard at putting her family first while continuing to magnify her calling. Not only is she a primary president but she is also a missionary...Danica shares with us how she introduced a life long pen pal from Japan to the restored gospel.


3 Dec 2016

Rank #12

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Leading by the SPIRIT of the Law or the LETTER of the Law | An Interview with Jason Hunt

Jason Hunt has a PhD in endocrine physiology and teaches pre-med classes at Brigham Young University-Idaho. He is currently serving as a young single adult bishop and has previously served in a stake presidency and a bishopric.Highlights7:15 Culture and rules are not doctrinal9:20 Keyholder applications are different from personal applications11:00 Elder Bednar’s concept of applications: Doctrines are statements. Principles are embedded in the doctrines and tell us what we should do. They never change. Applications change.14:50 Keyholder applications hold true when the keyholder is saying them and would apply to those who are within their responsibility, and they do not extend beyond18:10 Cultural norms are applications that have extended beyond their boundaries19:00 How you view these cultural norms depends on your personal moral theory. The most common are: Consequential theorist: consequences Obligation theorist: rules Divine theorist: what God has said Egoist: personal priorities25:00 The best leadership should be able to move between these theories27:30 When you understand these moral frameworks, how different people respond to the culture makes more sense. Cognitive development also applies.30:30 Jason’s experience considering the story of Noah34:30 It’s important to be open and talk about things, even if you don’t have the answers36:30 Stephen R. Covey: Listen with the intent to understand, not to answer39:30 Pornography, brain addiction science, and the bladder comparison. Identify the justifications. Ensure they trust and are comfortable and willing to share.44:00 The response depends again on the personal moral theories of everyone involved47:00 The Holy Ghost knows what needs to happen and we can be open to that and understand that there can be different consequences for different people47:40 Have empathy for people with different moral theories and respect them for their approach49:00 The divine command theorist must be doctrinally grounded or there can be misapplication within the culture. Examples that happen in a YSA ward.53:20 Egoism: put the mask on first55:30 When you are working with a leader who is coming from a different moral framework there will be friction and it requires greater empathy. We have to learn to step into different quadrants and embrace the differences of opinion58:45 A mission is not a saving ordinance. The temple is the culminating event with the saving ordinances and that is where the focus needs to be.1:00:10 Jason’s motorcycle example compared to technology use: youth do not have the ability to utilize their agency, so they need stages of responsibilityLinksLeading Saints LIVE with Jason Hunt:Series of books by David A. Bednar:Increase in Learning - Spiritual Patterns for Obtaining Your Own AnswersAct in Doctrine - Spiritual Patterns for Turning from Self to the SaviorPower to Become - Spiritual Patterns for Pressing Forward with a Steadfastness in Christ

1hr 8mins

7 Dec 2019

Rank #13

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The Book of Mormon DNA Debate | An Interview With Ugo Perego

From time to time church leaders will counsel with someone in their flock that has concerns and confusion related to how science relates to the Book of Mormon; more specifically how DNA relates to the people talked about in the Book of Mormon.It would be beneficial for all leaders to listen to this podcast interview and also review the links below. This will help leaders to have more confidence when counseling with someone that is having a faith struggle because of a scientific perspectives.Dr. Ugo Perego is currently Director of the Rome Italy LDS Institute. He is a Population Geneticist and has consulted with the LDS Church related to the Book of Mormon and DNA. He contributed to the research mentioned in the Church's Essay about this topic. Dr. Perego is also a bishop in Rome, Italy.

1hr 21mins

25 Jun 2016

Rank #14

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What to do When the Bishop is an Accidental Diminisher | An Interview With Liz Wiseman

Liz Wiseman has been named as one of the top 10 leadership thinkers in the world and teaches leadership to executives and emerging leaders internationally. She is the President of The Wiseman Group, a leadership research and development firm headquartered in Silicon Valley. She is the author of three best-selling books: Rookie Smarts: Why Learning Beats Knowing in the New Game of Work, Multipliers: How the Best Leaders Make Everyone Smarter and The Multiplier Effect: Tapping the Genius Inside Our Schools. Her book Mulitipliers: How the Best Leaders Make Everyone Smarter was recently revised and updated.  In this episode we talk about these revisions and what to do when we have a leader that is a "diminisher."A FULL TRANSCRIPT OF THE INTERVIEW IS BELOWInterview Highlights:3:30 Revised edition of Multipliers7:00 Diminishers as leaders8:30 How do we build a culture of leaders11:30 How to see the accidental diminisher in you16:00 How to approach a diminisher?              Most common strategies (that don't typically work)- Confront them Avoid them Quit Comply and lay low Ignore the diminishing behavior18:00 Experience of Liz confronting a Relief Society President21:00 Role play- good guy/bad boss25:45 How to respond to a diminisher- Curiousity approach/ask questions         "I wonder why?" Have empathy.  Who did wrong by this person?  Who micromanaged them?27:40 Having empathy for the people we work under changes the dynamics28:15 Instead of excluding the diminisher, ask their opinion30:00 You don't get to change other people but you can change your response31:00 You have the choice to be the Multiplier yourself.  It doesn't have to come from the top32:00 Choose to respond with love33:00 You don't have to be the boss to be the Multiplier34:15 Fluid leadership37:00 Defensive moves- turn the volume down39:00 Retreat and regroup- example from Apple executive Steve Jobs42:00 Assert your capability- good strategy to deal with accidental diminisher- "I got this"46:15 What Liz has learned about her discipleship of Jesus ChristLinks:Multipliers, Revised and Updated: How the Best Leaders Make Everyone SmarterOther Liz Wiseman interviews with Leading SaintsFull Interview Transcript:Kurt Francom (LS): Liz, this is your third time on the Leading Saints podcast, and I welcome you back.Liz Wiseman: It's good to be here. You know, I actually thought it might be my fourth time, but it might-LS: It may be!Liz Wiseman: It might be the third or the fourth, but I hope you're suspicious that I'm out for your job, that I actually want to be the host of the Leading Saints broadcast.LS: There you are. Well, it's yours.Liz Wiseman: Because I keep coming back. LS: You speak the words, and you can be the host of Leading Saints. I think you're much more qualified than I will ever dream of being. Nonetheless, [00:03:25] I always mention how kind you've been to the Leading Saints organization, and the way we've interacted. I do name drop your name for various times. "Yeah, I actually know Liz Wiseman, you know, so, she's a pretty big deal." Right?Liz Wiseman: We teach together.LS: We do, we do. The reason why we got this interview together is, you have recently revised your world-renowned, best-selling book, I'll build it up as it should be, of "Multipliers". You done a revised edition, is that right?Liz Wiseman: [00:01:00] We have. We've done a revised edition, it's really just started for me as just a little bit of a thorn that was in my side because there is this question that keeps coming up over and over. I've been trying to address it, and that led to this next edition. The question that had just come up for so many people, they say "I read your book. I very much want to be a multiplier, but I have to say, my biggest [00:01:30] angst is the fact that I'm stuck working for a diminisher. What do I do?


21 May 2017

Rank #15

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Leading with Trust | An Interview with Stephen M. R. Covey

Steven M. R. Covey is the son of Steven R. Covey of “7 Habits of Highly Effective People” and co-founder of Covey Link and the Franklin Covey Global Speed of Trust practice. He is a highly sought-after and compelling keynote speaker and advisor on trust, ethics, sales, and high performance, and speaks to audiences around the world. He is also the New York Times and #1 Wall Street Journal best-selling author of “The Speed of Trust", which teaches 13 Behaviors of High Trust Leaders. This is a groundbreaking, paradigm-shifting book that challenges the assumption that trust is merely a soft social virtue, demonstrating that it is instead a hard-edge economic driver. Trust is a learnable skill that makes organizations more profitable, people more promotable and relationships more energizing.Highlights3:19 What it was like growing up in the Covey home and how the principles his father was teaching in the marketplace were first taught in the home. Things like “green & clean”, “listen first”. The principles in the book were for the marketplace but were started at home with his family. They were the guinea pigs of “7 habits”.4:40 How he started on the business side but shifted career path to current leadership roles5:20 Not one thing that lead to “trust” as his focus, but many different things that lead to that. There is a high cost to low trust Trust is learnable Trust is not just a good thing, and social thing but it is a multiplier and key to leadership. All things are better with trust. Trust and love are critical, you can love and not trust but it is best to have both. It is better to be trusted than loved. (David O McKay) Love is critical. It applies to everything, business, church, marriage, every level of human interaction.10:40 “Fish are the last ones to discover water.” How to determine amount of trust when we are called to a position. We need to be intentional, not just use position power, but rely on credibility, influence, trust. Seek best interest of others.12:50 Positions may not come with trust. Description of low trust tax, that may confer to us from prior leaders, as well as low trust dividend.14:00 Trust is built through our credibility and behavior: Credibility: character trust (integrity, intent, care, more about others well-being, showing we care) and competence trust (current, learning, performance, do what we say) Behavior – how we do whatever we do, we want to model behavior that builds trust We want leaders that care, and are very competent as well. We don’t have to be perfect, we have to be willing23:00 We need to look in the mirror and see how we are doing with trust.24:10 How do we help those who have a deficit of trust – first look inward. How do I focus on my credibility, my confidence? Declare intent – what you are doing and why. Extend trust to others, people will return the trust. There is a risk. We are good at understanding trustworthiness, but not always good at understanding the importance of extending trust – trust others. The quickest way to make someone trustworthy, is to extend trust to them.28:50 Don’t treat people according to their behavior, treat them according to their potential. They will rise to that trust.29:30 Behaviors that build trust: Extend Trust – make sure they know you “trust” them to fulfill their calling Clarify Expectations Practice Accountability33:45 “To be trusted in the most inspiring form of human motivation”. It brings out the best in people. Less micro-management and better trust returned to you.34:45 Our positions/hierarchy type leadership need to be changed to a leadership of trust & inspire. If we trust people, they will perform better37:30 Two more behaviors identified: Council – should be collaborative -- listen first, try to understand, and reflect that you are trying to understand. Not judging, not agreeing, not disagreeing, just listening.


10 Jun 2018

Rank #16

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Bearded Bishops, Rated-R Movies, & the Honor Code | An Interview with John Hilton III

John Hilton III was born in San Francisco and grew up in Seattle. He served a mission in Denver, and got a Bachelor’s degree from Brigham Young University. While there he met his wife Lani and they have six children. They have lived in Boise, Boston, Miami, Mexico, Jerusalem and China. Currently, they live in Utah. John has a Masters degree from Harvard and a Ph.D from BYU, both in Education. John is a Professor of Religious Education at BYU.John has published several books with Deseret Book, most recently, The Founder of our Peace, and enjoys speaking at Education Week, and other places. His education research has influenced policy both in the United States and internationally. John loves being with his family, doing humanitarian work, learning Chinese, and performing magic.©BYU PHOTO 2011 All Rights ReservedHighlights7:04: John quotes President Uchtdorf in which the former addresses the many “shoulds” and “should nots” that become a challenge in our lives. We can lose peace in our lives when we focus on admittedly good ideas, but aren’t grounded in the Gospel of Jesus Christ.8:50: What are “Fence Laws”? Imagine an unfillable hole in your backyard, which poses a threat to children who may fall in. You therefore put a fence around this hole, which represents sin. The fence represents the protective effort against anybody falling into the sin.9:45: We are already protected from sins by commandments, which John refers to as “core laws”. Yet some still feel the need to add additional “fence laws”. E.g.:Core Law: The law of chastity, i.e., no sexual relations outside of marriage. Fence Law: No kissing until the fourth date, and kiss will last no longer than five seconds. Fence Law: No going into the bedroom of a member of the opposite sex.10:47: Some fence laws have prophetic sources, like those found in the For the Strength of Youth, etc. There is a goodness to fence laws as guided by the spirit or other divine sources, like prophets.13:57: Examples of positive fence laws.15:22: Dangers of focusing on the fence laws while forgetting the commandments: “I didn’t go into the bedroom of a member of the opposite sex, but I still broke the law of chastity.” Children need fences, but the choices should shift away from extrinsic fences to self-imposed fences.16:50: Too many good fences can become a burden.22:58: “Take my yoke upon you” meaning.25:49: Ward traditions that become fences.28:56: Allowing the spirit to fill in the details around prophetic direction.30:14: Anecdotes where a personal fences law caused harm:Unrighteous judgment Offending others Teaching others incorrectly43:20: Fences should help us feel the Holy Ghost45:50: Leading Saints’ contribution to fence laws: learning by seeking to understand the purpose behind a fence.48:14: How to step back from the rush to judgment.51:48: When to correct and when to ignore as leaders.53:10: Did we become members of Christ’s church in order to argue with others what true discipleship looks like? Paul, when using dietary habits as an example of arguing over something inconsequential, said “For meat, destroy not the work of God.” Romans 14:20.55:14: “The work of God” and your role, the bishop’s role, and our common goal.58:01: Trusting prophets as “seers”, even if we can’t “see” the point of their counsel.100:08: Review of four key points:It’s good to have spirit-driven fence laws Some fence laws can be burdensome Know the mark: loving God and loving our neighbors Judging others over fence laws, and teaching doctrine100:35: “Lord, is it I?” mode: who needs to hear this podcast? Look inward.1:02:58: Upward empathy toward leaders.204:18: ConclusionLinksThe Founder of Our Peace: Christ-Centered Patterns for Easing Worry, Stress, and FearJohn's article discussing this topic: A Fence Around the Law – Safety Net or Beam in Our Eye

1hr 7mins

18 Apr 2020

Rank #17

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What Every Bishop Needs to Understand About Betrayal Trauma

Interview Transcript Available BelowIn this episode we interview Dr. Jill Manning, a licensed marriage and family therapist, and Anne Blythe, Director of Betrayal Trauma Recovery. Jill Manning is a PhD level marriage and family councilor and has been practicing for 17 years. She is on two national boards, Enough is Enough and App Status.  She lives in Colorado. Anne Blythe spent seven years trying to save her marriage as her husband battled a pornography addiction. She currently coaches women online who are going through a similar situation. She has a website and hosts a podcast, Betrayal Trauma Recovery. Her website and podcast are dedicated to helping support women through this trauma.  Episode Highlights 2:26 Betrayal trauma is when someone who loves you violates your trust in a critical way. This betrayal can happen to these victims multiple times. 9:36 Anne struggled to put the pieces together in the midst of her trauma and recognize this was in an abusive relationship. 11:13 Sometimes Bishops can have a hard time helping couples through these pornography addictions as two different perspectives are shared, ”he said, she said”   12:11 For Anne going to church during this time was extremely difficult. She kept going because she knew it was right. 13:51 As a Mormon culture we are a trusting people. That can make it hard dealing with addicts who are not always honest due to shame and minimizing the situation. They can also gas light the situation and manipulate reality. 14:36 When helping in the “he said, she said” situations step back and evaluate who is motivated by what. 15:41 It can take women some time to realize they are in an abusive relationship 18:50 It can take months or years to get the full story from the addict. Help teach them that it is ok and normal to spotlight the situation. 21:52 The addict is not mentally capable of divulging everything at once. 22:13 The spouse can be the barometer for what is really happening. 24:21 Secondary Trauma is trauma that comes from asking for help and feeling dismissed. 26:19 For the victims it can help to see action being taken and the addict held accountable. 30:44  Consuming pornography is unrighteous dominion. 31:29  Emotional, spiritual, and financial, abuse is real and often linked to pornography addiction. 34:11  Studies have shown that 2/3 of people struggling with pornography addiction have been found to have a mood disorder. Those studies also show that 44 percent have a personality disorder and narcissistic traits. 34:14 Three studies have shown that 71 percent of women meet the criteria for PTSD as victims of their spouses pornography addiction. 35:29  Zoom into helping the victims with safety first. That includes being physically and spiritual safe. 37:35 Lean on Heavenly Father to help you through this and always establish emotional safety. Resources and Links: Enough is Enough Betrayal Trauma Recovery  Steve and Kayla's Story of Sexual Addiction and Recovery Jill Manning's WebsiteInterview Transcript:Kurt Francom: Today we are welcoming into the podcast Jill Manning and Anne Blythe.Dr Jill Manning: Doing well.Anne Blythe: Great.Kurt Francom: Jill, maybe let's start with you. Tell us about your background. What does the Leading Saints world need to know [00:05:00] about you and what you offer to this discussion?Dr Jill Manning: Sure. I'm a PhD level marriage and family therapist. I've been practicing for approximately 17 years now. I'm from Canada originally, but based in Colorado. I sit on two national boards, Enough is Enough, which focuses on internet safety, and also APSATS, which focuses on certifying and training those that are specializing in partners of sex addiction work, and I'm a clinician in private practice.Kurt Francom: Awesome. I love to have a good, solid [00:05:30] expert to throw questions at, for sure. Anne,


29 Oct 2017

Rank #18

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Can God Be Disappointed in You? | A Presentation by Kurt Francom

In this episode, Leading Saints Executive Director, Kurt Francom, shares his closing session from the Liberating Saints Virtual Summit. He approaches the subject of supporting and mentoring someone through a difficult struggle with pornography, from a doctrinal standpoint. Highlights 3:00 Approaching the topic from a doctrinal standpoint 4:20 Behaviors vs doctrine/heart 5:15 “The study of the doctrines of the gospel will improve behavior quicker than a study of behavior will improve behavior. Preoccupation with unworthy behavior can lead to unworthy behavior. That is why we stress so forcefully the study of the doctrines of the gospel.“—Boyd K. Packer 6:40 Change the heart, leading to a change in behavior 8:00 How Satan tempts us, catching us in our own traps by creating contention in our hearts (Doctrine & Covenants 10:12, 26, 63) 11:10 Satan’s attack on our identity causes contention (Moses 4:11, Matthew 4:3) 14:00 Setting our own trap (example from The Lion King) 17:15 Steve’s story of overcoming addiction 19:40 Satan uses shame to alter identity “As a shame researcher, I've learned that wherever perfectionism is driving us, shame is riding shotgun.”—Brene Brown 22:20 “What does that say about you as a person?”—Sam Tielemans 23:15 The adversary’s work and glory is to destroy the agency of man. Shame leads to altered identity which leads to a lack of agency. 24:55 “I am an addict” “No one wants to be defined by their hardest struggle, and so we have to find this really interesting space between owning it and identifying it but reject being labeled by it and reduced by it.”—Brene Brown 27:00 Does this reduce or expand the individual’s identity? 29:50 Examples of Tom and Tim in the bishop’s office 33:10 A change of heart leads to good behavior Offer hope Explore doctrines (especially mercy and grace) Admit you can’t “fix” them Define the purpose of the behaviors (CPR: church, prayer, read scriptures) Turn them towards their Father Overwhelm them with connection 44:20 Story of James 47:45 Disappointment: another tactic of the adversary The principal’s office, the dentist’s office, and the bishop’s office 51:10 Contention created when we believe God is disappointed in us 52:30 Can God be disappointed? Can God be surprised? Doctrine & Covenants 3:1-3 Doctrine & Covenants 10:67 “Repentance isn’t His backup plan in the event we might fail. Repentance is His plan, knowing that we will.”—Lynn G. Robbins 57:10 Example of learning to walk and falling down “This shepherd, our Good Shepherd, finds joy in seeing His diseased sheep progress toward healing.”—Dale G. Renlund “A car is made to run on gasoline, and it would not run properly on anything else. Now God designed the human machine to run on himself. He himself is the fuel our spirits were designed to burn, or the food our spirits were designed to feed on. There is no other.”—C.S. Lewis 1:01:15 Kurt’s scripture study shame cycle example: “You could _ and I’d still love you.” 1:05:45 “The Christian does not think God will love us because we are good, but that God will make us good because He loves us.”—C.S. Lewis 1:06:20 John 14:16 1:07:50 The Heart of Man movie clip: Think of the violin as commandments and covenants 1:10:10 If ye love me, hold on to my commandments Abraham 3:26, Doctrine & Covenants 78:18 Alma 33:16 Romans 8:38-39 1:13:50 Luke 15:20 When he was yet a great way off Links “The Atonement Works for Me”: One Couple’s Recovery from Sexual Addiction Brene Brown TED talk: Listening to Shame James' story on the Unashamed, Unafraid podcast The Heart of Man movie clip The Heart of Man movie Transcript Kurt: Everyone, this is Kurt Francom with Leading Saints, and this is another session of the Liberating Saints Virtual Summit. But this time, well, it's just with me. I hope that's okay.

1hr 21mins

30 Sep 2019

Rank #19

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An Open Letter to Bishops From a Wife of a Porn Addict

Sara Walker currently lives in Amity, Oregon. She served in the Chicago Illinois North mission, met her husband at BYU-Idaho, and has a been striving to improve her marriage and help her husband overcome his addiction to pornography. Enter Sara...Dear Bishop,Thank you for your service as a bishop in the Church. I believe you were called of God to your calling for such a time as this. We need people who are willing to be on the front lines in the battle for families and individuals against sexual addiction. I am hoping to give you some insight into what women with husbands involved in sexual addiction (SA) need from you as an ecclesiastical leader. I have talked with many women who are dealing with this in their lives, and their stories are varied and poignant. All the women who shared their insight did so knowing that I would be submitting this to you. Out of respect for them and the battles they continue to fight, I won't use names or specific details.The feelings and thoughts expressed in this letter are my own, although not every item listed has been applicable to me and my situation. It is my hope that you will use this letter—as well as the spirit of discernment—when counseling with individuals and couples, as each situation is somewhat unique. There are, however, a number of similarities between them as well. I will be attempting to address those.I feel like it's important to begin this by sharing with you some attitudes and attributes of the addict. Many of those who come to you with SA will be men—although not exclusively. Therefore, I will use the term addict and husband interchangeably. When a man comes to you admitting he has looked at pornography, please consider the following: Most men do not fully confess everything the first time, or the second, or the third… They may say they don’t have an addiction, that it was just a here-and-there problem. They have likely struggled for years, and are only coming to you because they got caught. They have lied to themselves and to their spouse for so long that they believe many of their own lies. They are so programmed to hide everything that it usually takes a “hitting rock bottom” moment before full confession happens, and sometimes not even then. Often there are things like masturbation and infidelity that they are not talking about.As a bishop, please consider asking the difficult questions. Be specific. Ask: Do you masturbate? Have you had virtual relationships or physical relationships? Do you go to strip clubs or porn shops? How often? For how long? Do you use your phone or tablet? Do you call hotlines? And so forth. They do not need to be graphic in the details of what they do, but they do need to be accountable. Many of these men have a distorted sense of time. They will say the last time they looked was a few months/weeks ago. In reality, it was likely sooner and for longer than they would admit. They are most likely in something referred to as “addict brain” or “addict mode.” Unless they have been actively working at recovery, they are in addict brain. It gives them a distorted sense of reality. (For more in-depth discussion of addict brain, see the book, Like Dragons Did They Fight.)Dealing with someone who lives much of their life in addict brain is difficult. When we—the women dealing with this—come to you for help, we often have no one else to turn to. Begin to educate yourself about the nuances of SA. Each of the below items is just a brief overview; this is meant as a starting point and not a comprehensive document. Please consider the following as you seek guidance in counseling us:1. Do not imply or flat out say that if we would give our spouse more time sexually he wouldn’t have this problemThis is probably the number one source of depression, frustration and abandonment women feel from ecclesiastical leaders. This is the quickest way to alienate the wife. Women will immediately throw up a wall when a prie...

1hr 11mins

22 Mar 2017

Rank #20