Cover image of Sales Funnel Mastery: Business Growth | Conversions | Sales | Online Marketing
(34)
Business
Education
Careers

Sales Funnel Mastery: Business Growth | Conversions | Sales | Online Marketing

Updated 6 days ago

Business
Education
Careers
Read more

Sales funnel specialist Jeremy Reeves, owner of www.JeremyReeves.com, reveals what's working and what's not when it comes to creating automated sales funnels. You'll discover unique and innovative profit strategies to grow your business while adding more automation, more stability and more cash flow to your bottom line. You'll get privy access to business growth strategies, conversion rate optimization tips, marketing automation tactics, authority building, and much more. Most episodes are short and to the point so you can get back to work and implement his suggestions. Subscribe now and listen in to the worlds #1 most trusted sales funnel authority to grow your business!

Read more

Sales funnel specialist Jeremy Reeves, owner of www.JeremyReeves.com, reveals what's working and what's not when it comes to creating automated sales funnels. You'll discover unique and innovative profit strategies to grow your business while adding more automation, more stability and more cash flow to your bottom line. You'll get privy access to business growth strategies, conversion rate optimization tips, marketing automation tactics, authority building, and much more. Most episodes are short and to the point so you can get back to work and implement his suggestions. Subscribe now and listen in to the worlds #1 most trusted sales funnel authority to grow your business!

iTunes Ratings

34 Ratings
Average Ratings
30
2
2
0
0

Awesome Podcast

By Brooke Craven - Aug 29 2017
Read more
Jeremy host of Sales Funnel Mastery highlights all aspects of marketing and sales in this can’t miss podcast. The host and expert guests offer insightful advice that is helpful to anyone that listens!

Great podcast!

By Trinculos9876 - Dec 18 2016
Read more
Great insights into customer psychology!

iTunes Ratings

34 Ratings
Average Ratings
30
2
2
0
0

Awesome Podcast

By Brooke Craven - Aug 29 2017
Read more
Jeremy host of Sales Funnel Mastery highlights all aspects of marketing and sales in this can’t miss podcast. The host and expert guests offer insightful advice that is helpful to anyone that listens!

Great podcast!

By Trinculos9876 - Dec 18 2016
Read more
Great insights into customer psychology!

Listen to:

Cover image of Sales Funnel Mastery: Business Growth | Conversions | Sales | Online Marketing

Sales Funnel Mastery: Business Growth | Conversions | Sales | Online Marketing

Updated 6 days ago

Read more

Sales funnel specialist Jeremy Reeves, owner of www.JeremyReeves.com, reveals what's working and what's not when it comes to creating automated sales funnels. You'll discover unique and innovative profit strategies to grow your business while adding more automation, more stability and more cash flow to your bottom line. You'll get privy access to business growth strategies, conversion rate optimization tips, marketing automation tactics, authority building, and much more. Most episodes are short and to the point so you can get back to work and implement his suggestions. Subscribe now and listen in to the worlds #1 most trusted sales funnel authority to grow your business!

Rank #1: 5 Reasons Funnels Fail To Convert

Podcast cover
Read more

In this episode, we discuss the top 5 most funnels fail to convert. If you're suffering from a low (or negative) ROI, these are the places you want to look first!

Resources Mentioned

jeremyreeves.com

Want To Work With Me?

Visit http://www.JeremyReeves.com or email me at Jeremy@JeremyReeves.com

Enjoy!

Transcript

Hey, what is going on everybody. Jeremy Reeves here with another episode of the sales funnel mastery podcast and today is Monday, May 2nd and I am really excited for this. We have a lot going on this week. We are launching a new funnel actually on Facebook. I think I told you about that in the last podcast. I am excited about that. I actually did not even really start nothing is even created yet. We are doing a PDF to a tripwire and then you know, to essentially testing that with an upsell and then if that particular market focus works, then we are going to build out a whole funnel for it.

We are kind of doing like a little mini test for it based on the you know, the test that I talked about in the last episode.

So that is going on live this week, we will see how that works, see how that does, see if we need to make any tweaks you know, that kind of thing and then we will kind of go from there, but I am excited about that.

It kind of goes right into what I am going to be talking about today and that is 5 Reasons That Funnels Fail To Convert you know.

So in the last episode, I kind of talked about our last funnel that we tested really, really quickly that have like no thought into it and it did not really work all that well. The concept that we are testing did work, but the actual funnel itself did not you know, did not give a positive ROI on it.

So it kind of give you like a glimpse into why that did not work. So I want to expand on that overall topic of why funnels fail to convert you know, because funnels have you know, the word sales funnel you know, the buzz word sales funnel has been around for I do not know a couple of years now.

I have been doing them since like 2009, 2010, something like that, but you know the word really did not yet big until I do not know maybe like roughly 2 years ago or so.

And there is a good reason for that you know, because they worked you know, it is just plain and simple, they worked, except sometimes they do not, you know, and that is when they are not done properly you know.

And there are a lot of reasons why they would not be done properly.

So today, I am going to cover 5 of them, okay.

The first one is and really, probably the biggest one, is -- actually not the biggest one, but it is one of the bigger ones is that your message to market match is off, right.

So if your message to market matches off so let me give you a quick definition of message to market match, right.

So when you are selling something, you have to have, there are 2 parts to the equation. Just like you know, if you are going out and you are trying to pick up a girl, you have to have chemistry or a guy if you are a girl. You have to have chemistry between both people for that relationship to work.

If a guy walks up to a girl and he thinks the girl is attractive and cute and sweet whatever characteristics he is going for, but the girl does not feel that same way back, that relationship is not going to work, okay, and vice versa you know, maybe that girl thinks the guy is attractive, but the guy does not think the girl is attractive, still not going to work.

For that to work, for that relationship to work, both people need to be kind of like in sync with each other. They need to both find each other’s physical and you know, whatever, emotional, mental characteristics and traits appealing you know. They have to like their personality. They have to like how they look. They have to like how they act, all that kind of thing.

And it is the same way. When you have -- if you think about that in terms of your product and then your market, you have to make them both be in sync with each other.

So you can have a product, for example, in coming up with this new funnel that we are going to do, you know, what I did was me in my place, I wrote down -- I went outside, I have a cigar and I went out on my whiteboard out in my patio outside my office here, and I wrote down all the different -- I have my whiteboard out and I draw a line down the middle and I put PDF on 1 side and then I put tripwire on the other side, and I wrote down -- I think it was about a dozen ideas for PDFs for this, you know, for this new funnel and then on the other side, I wrote about a dozen ideas for tripwire.

And then what I did was we kind of as a team went together and well me and main marketing guy, Sean, we kind of get together and we look at both sides and I came up with my top 3 of each of those. So I said, okay, you know, this PDF is going to be perfect with this tripwire you know, and did that 3 times. He did the same thing and then we narrowed it down to 1, right.

And the reason that we did that was because there were some and I wish I had it, actually here it is, let me pull up real quick.

So for example, one of the PDFs that I was thinking about doing was X number of ways to maximize revenue from your existing list, okay. So, you know, think about that, that probably sounds pretty good, you know. You have a list and you know, I was going to show you, you know, whatever 7 ways to maximize revenue from your existing list or whatever that was except if you did not have a list, right.

That audience if you think about that who is that attracting, that specific example is going to attract people who already have a list. If you do not have a list and you are kind of in the beginning stages that is not going to attract you, okay.

And in the funnel that we are doing, we are attracting people that are in the beginning stages okay. So that one may not be relevant, right.

And you know, and then some you know, tripwires, let us see, like email segmentation templates I was going to do because the one upsell that we have is templates you know, copy templates and a big part of that is email templates you know, prospect templates and segmentation templates and buyers templates and you know, promotion templates, webinar templates, all kind of stuff like that in there.

So, again, you know, email segmentation template is going to be a great tripwire for a segment of the audience, but not for a very you know, not for a beginning part of the audience and this funnel that we are going after the end game is not to get them into coaching or you know done for you which is normally what we are doing. The end game is to sell them our products, right, $500 or less.

So there, in the beginning part of the market, they are not you know, I am not going after 7-figure business owners. They do not want that kind of stuff typically. You know, they want -- you know, the 7 you know, $500,000 plus are more looking for coaching done for you, that kind of stuff, whereas, $500 or less again, typically, looking for more information because they cannot afford the other stuff because you know, the business is not big enough, alright.

So the message to market match is making sure that what you are selling matches what the market wants, okay, and you have to look at your market and understand exactly who you are selling to and then of course you know, with the whole message, that is the copywriting. That is all you know, I would not go into that. That is all obviously going to be relevant in our Facebook ads, in the landing page, in the you know, in the tripwire page, all that kind of stuff.

Second one is adding too much complexity too early. So you know, if you have not heard this before I have basically 3 stages of a sales funnel and that is the foundational stage where you are getting the foundation setup. You have your unique selling preposition, your lead magnet, your core offer, and 1 upsell and like a buyer’s sequence to keep in touch with your buyers to kind of prime them for when you get more offers later on and keep them happy, get them good result, that kind of thing.

Then you have your maximization stage, okay, and that is when you are getting in the things like segmentation and going offline and you know, testing and things like that, right.

Understanding your matrix is a huge part of the maximization stage. Basically, what you are doing is you are taking your funnel and this is where you get more complex. You are really looking at your funnel and saying where are the leaks and you plug those leaks, okay and then in the perfection stage that is when you are getting up to 7 figures plus.

That is more split testing. You already have all of the components of a sales funnel. You already have you know, it is all segmented the right way. You have all the emails in place. You have all your various pages in place. You have things like retargeting. You have things like behavioral triggers. All that stuff and then you are looking you know, you are going after perfection. So you are going after this is like the last couple(inaudible 8:56.4) where you are testing different positioning, you are testing different offers, different prizes, all that kind of stuff and this is what I do for a lot of my clients that are 7 figures plus on retainer.

You know, is doing this kind of perfection stage, alright, but the point of this is know where you are in you know, in you know what stage, you should be in you know. If you are in a general sense, I like to say up to 500,00 or so you know, again, this is all you know, it is not like -- this is not black and white nothing in the life is black and white.

So take this you know, with a little bit(inaudible )this is just like a general rule of thumb, but up to about 500,000 in sales, gross revenue, you are going to be your foundational stage.

So you are going to be one to nail your USP. What is unique about you, you know, what is different, what is valuable about your business. You want to nail that. Nail your market, your message, all that kind of stuff.

Five hundred to a million or so, you know, maybe a million and a half, you are going to really be focusing on your maximization stage okay and then after that, after a million and a half then you are going to go really focus on your profession stage because then you can you know, you can afford to hire somebody to do stuff like that you know.

So the point here is do not try to make it too complex too early. Really nail your foundation. This is something I have been learning a lot lately with a lot of my clients is we really have to focus, take a step back and really just absolutely crush the foundation you know.

I always like to say that you know, the wider the foundation as you scale your business you know, if you are looking to scale foundation is before scaling. Maximization is when you are starting to scale, so think it that way.

If you are trying to scale your business, you have to have your foundation in place because number 1, you know, the wider your foundation, the more sturdier foundation, the faster you can go upwards before it starts to get shifty you know.

If you only have a tiny little narrow foundation and you start to scale, you are only going to be able to go up you know. Think of this in terms of a house. You have a tiny little you know, a couple of feet foundation, you are not going to be able to go up very high before the house starts you know, getting all shaky and wobbly, right and falling over.

So make sure you absolutely nail your foundation first before you start worrying about crazy stuff and getting in the multiple segmentation and behavioral sequences and like all that kind of crazy stuff that you read about. In most cases, that is not necessary. You really just have to -- just nail your foundation.

The third one is failing to understand your prospects buying cycle, alright. So it is really, really, really important to have congruency and relevancy throughout your sales funnel, alright and this goes back to the message market match, right. These are fairly similar. You know, going back to my example, with my lead magnet, you know, I am picking people in a different part of the buying cycle. If I were going after 7 figure business owners, I would be talking about segmentation. I would be talking about behavioral triggers and sequences. I would be talking about you know advance copywriting, things like that because that is what is going to attract the 7 figure plus bigger business owners to get them into my you know, done for you services, alright. Our done for you is typically like roughly 500,000 plus, again, generally.

So as you can see like I am attracting different types of people, alright. You know, lead magnets for beginners you know, resources, that is a good thing for beginner because you are not trying to attract somebody 7 figure plus they already have all the resources and tools. They are not worried about that, right.

So understand where your prospects are in your buying cycle and then kind of have triggers throughout your sales funnel that take them through and get them to the next stage in the buying cycle, alright.

In the buying cycle, I will do a separate podcast on that, because that is a whole other topic, but you know, for now, just think about where, what different stages you have of prospects that are in different stages to the buying cycle and then if you are doing you know, have different -- you can have different funnels for each one or if you only have one, focus on one of them, right.

So the client that I talked about, I do not know last time or the time before, that she is a coaching client, and she basically went from doing launches like 2 to 3 times a year you know, she is getting worn out of it that kind of thing and I helped her build the funnel. I mapped it out for her. We walk through it you know, coaching, she built it, but I kind of built it with her essentially because you know, (inaudible 13:49.4) coaching and she is now making about $1300 a day right, which is whatever that is like $500k a year or whatever from this funnel and what is funny is that, that funnel is only half done because what we did was we brought people in through different lead magnets, again, attracting different people in different stages of buying cycle and then they go into a funnel.

In her case, there is basically the super beginners and then there is people slightly more advance. She is not going after about anybody really advance so it is like kind of the beginner and intermediate areas.

And we only did the beginner part of it, right. So the only part that we even did was the very beginning course that she has and so she is right now working on doing you know, the second half of it. So that is going to probably double what she is doing now and she essentially started from 0 you know and within I think it took her about 6 weeks maybe because she had some other stuff going on and she went from essentially 0 $1300 a day just putting that funnel in place because it is a bad ass funnel.

That is failing to understand your buying cycle.

The number is 4 not understanding lifetime customer value, alright.

Too many people trying to profit as much as possible on new customer acquisition, alright. It does not allow you to profit very much you know. Think about how much money it cause. Think about getting let us just say 5 times ROI on frontend acquisition or let us just say 3 times because that is probably more realistic if you are doing like a course you know, versus like coaching or something like that, right.

So you are spending $1, you are getting $3 back, alright, good you know, but what people do not understand is that is all they focus on is, oh, I am spending $1 and getting $3 back, right. Well that might happen in the first 30 days, but what would happen if your funnel was based around getting that $3 but then turning that $3 into $10 or into $20 and that is very realistic when you are talking about you know, your backend.

There are so many things that people can do to turn their buyers into repeat super fans, you know, and nobody does it. I cannot even begin to describe how many people I talked to that do not focus on their buyers and I am talking about 95% plus of people that I talked to.

Most of the people that I talked to are at least $500 or more and a lot of them are million dollars or more and they are still not focusing on the backend and they are not focusing, they do not understand what lifetime customer value is, right.

If you really get a solid backend in place, that $3 could very well be worth $20. So let me put it this way, would you be willing to spend, get to 1 to 1 ROIs, spend $3, if it is going to turn into $20 over the next you know, 3, 6, 12 months, hopefully, the answer is yes, you know.

And so I want you to think about that you know, look at track people over, I like to track one short term lifetime customer value and one long term. So short term might be okay, you get people in your funnel. What are they worth over the first 30 days, alright. And all of you have to do with this is you know, tag them whatever like, just for example if you are doing Facebook ads, you tag them as Facebook ads and then you run a report. So, it is you know, it is May 2nd now let us just pretend it is May 1st, at the end of May so you get all your people in through Facebook right and you look at those people and you say, okay, you know, you track -- let us just pretend that we track all of the April, so we track all of April, so you look and you say, okay, these people came in you know, in the month of April and then at the end of May you would look back, what are they worth throughout the month of May, right.

So they came in all throughout April you know, up until the end of May because that would be about 30 days isn’t that sound perfect, but you need (inaudible 18:05.7) how much money did those specific people, so let us just say you brought a thousand leads in throughout the month of April. How much money were those thousands leads worth in the month of May or since you know, since they came in the first 30 days, right.

You can even tag them for the first 30 days you know, and then you look, hey, you know, where is my list of first 30 days. How much are they worth for the first 30 days, you know. How much money do they generate. And that is it, that is your value per lead in the first 30 days and then you can do the same thing for a year, right.

So you tag them, you know, first year and then you look back after a year and then you say, okay, how much were they worth over a year. I mean it is very, very easy to (inaudible 18:47.2) stuff out. It is really not complicated.

And then you look, and you say, Wow, you know, that is amazing. I thought you know, I was only getting 3 to 1 times ROI, but after a year, I am getting 20 to 1 times ROI.

So what you do with that is you know, the big secret here is you can scale so much more when you are willing to spend more money to acquire a new customer.

So you might have your “budget” $3 per lead, that is your allowable cost per lead is $3 because you know they worth $3 right or whatever your numbers are.

So if you look and you say, holy God, you know, they worth $20 over the first year, right. Wouldn’t you be willing to spend you know, more than $3 to acquire something that is worth $20 you know, hopefully, the answer is yes and that is what you do, then you go out to people and you say, hey, look, you know, I am willing to give you 100% of the upfront fee, you know, say your product is $100 or whatever and now your -- you are willing to spend $50 whatever, well don’t you think that your affiliates that your joint venture partners would be much, much, much more willing to spend more or you know, to put more effort into promoting your product to service if you are willing to give them double your ROI now. Don’t you think that you can reach a broader audience base if you know, you are willing to spend $1 or whatever it was back then and now you can spend $3, or $5, or %10 you know, whatever your number is.

I mean, you know, you can -- if you think about it, you know, typically, the more specific you are with your targeting when you are doing paid ads the higher ROI you get. So imagine like a little tiny little circle that is your circle of influence or whatever you want to call it, right. Well, if you can spend more money that circle gets bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger, right. And your competitors they do not know this. They are only willing to spend $3 as well. Well now, if you know the people are worth $20, maybe you are willing to spend $10.

So if you are willing to spend 3 times as much as your competitors, who do you think is going to win, right. Think about that. I want that to be -- that is a huge, huge lesson for most people and they do not know it. They do not know the numbers. They do not know you know, how powerful that can be. That is how Jay Abraham took Icy Hot from whatever they were like $50,000 company to like it was like a $25,000,000 company in 18 months. That is the exact principle he used because he knew that -- I think his numbers are just less than (inaudible 21:40.5) the other day.

His numbers were let us see, they found out that the Ice Hot, you know, the bomb you put it is like you know, it is kind of like (inaudible 21:50.2) right now because it is sore, but they were willing to give people $3. The product sold for $3, they were giving people $3 to sell it, okay, so they were giving 100% of the profits and they went out to a whole bunch of retailers and did that but the reason that they did that was they knew that over the first year their average customers worth $25 in that first year. So they were not losing money, alright.

And they also knew that people would -- they would spend $3 on day 1 but day 15, they would buy another model, right, and they set their terms for net 30. So they, you know, they were essentially giving people 100$ upfront but they knew that their average person was going to order within that first month.

So they were actually making $6 the first month giving out $3. So they were still getting off 50% really in the first 30 days, but then they knew that over the first year, they were worth $25. So they were getting whatever that is again 8 times you know, they were giving away $1 to make $8, right.

And that is how they went from whatever it was, it was like 50 or you know, a couple of $100,000 or something like that just -- it was like barely, just a (inaudible 23:08.5) little business and he is (inaudible 23:10.2) like 25 million and again, do not quote me on the numbers there, to within like 18 months you know. That is the power of this, alright. So think about that.

The last one is, thinking that the money is in the list, right. Everybody says the money is in the list, the money is in the list, the money is in the list, no it is not, not at all. The money is in the relationship with the list, alright.

You can have a list and I know people with list of a hundred thousand, a million people, and I also know people that have a list of ten thousand and are crushing the people with a hundred thousand or a million. The reason for that is the relationship with the list, alright.

It does not matter the size of your list does not matter, alright. You can show this by if you look at your list right now, let us just say it is, I do not know, 50,000, you think you have a big list, right. You think that is impressive. Go through it and see how many inactive people you have in there, because I guarantee you it is probably around 50%. I guarantee you because I actually just did this for both of my list.

I guarantee you that roughly 50% of the people in your list have not opened a single email in the last 3 months or more.

Go back and look at that and that is just an easy way to show you that you know, you can lop off 50% and you are still getting the same amount of opens, right, but you know, in a bigger contacts, the relationship is in -- the money is the relationship. The money is within the trust that you build with your list and that is through things like you know, telling stories, you know, being personal, being transparent, being trustworthy you know, building that trust with your audience, resonating with them and the emotional triggers that are going to help them resonate with you and that is different with every audience, you know, showing them that you are the person that is going to help them solve their problem, adding value to their lives.

You know, things like that are going to help you in the relationship with your list, you know. I always tell people that people that are little bit newer to this that if your -- I just lost my train of thought. If you are going out to your list and you are sending them emails and they are not responding and you know, things like that, it is not doing what you thought it should do for the amount of people you have in your list, it is because your sending them again it comes back to message to market match, right.

You have to -- they are signing up for specific reason and you have to give them reasons to trust you because their attention is on a hundred different things. So why are they paying attention to you, alright.

You have to show them, that is actually partly what our new funnel that we are doing. That is actually what is about essentially. I forgot what the title is going to be. Essentially about you know, I actually I called the (inaudible 26:18.2) email, which, maybe I will tell you guys about that once it is done, but essentially, it is a simulate, resonate, and shocky email, right.

It is a 60% open rate email, I might as well talk about it now, 60% open rate email that is essentially what we are going to be talk about, it is a quick little report, it is only like 6 to 8 pages. I am actually going to start finishing it today, but I called it the (inaudible 26:44.3) right.

So the simulate, resonate, and shock email. So I will talk about that more you know, once it is done. Maybe I will even do a podcast on it, but yeah, you know, there is a lot of things -- if you go in my list you get basically like an (inaudible 26:59.8) email that is essentially what this you know, what this does is I bring you into my world and you instantly know who I am, what I am about, who I can help, who you know, why you should resonate with me that kind of thing and if you don’t then I will tell you to unsubscribe you know, and that is what this whole thing is about. So I will go into -- maybe I will do a separate podcast on that, but you know, the point here is that the money is not in the list. The money is in the relationship with your list.

So do not sit there and think that it is okay to email your list once a month or once every 2 weeks even, you know, once a week should be the minimum, you know, and I sometimes I am guilty to this myself, but you know, there are so many auto responders in my list that most people are getting messages more than once a week.

So even the final broadcast once a week you know, most people are getting messages at least you know, at least once a week and plus, most of my list is on my you know, listening to this podcast anyway so it is a little bit different.

But anyway, that is it, I hope you enjoy this. If you know, if any of them really resonate with you, go back and re-listen to them, all of them are extremely, extremely important. If you want your funnel to convert, they all have to really you know, if you want to take your business to the next level, that is what you have to do you know, so if you want to get a little bit more in depth with all this, the 2 kind of main ways to work with us is either through coaching or having us just build your funnel for you. Everybody kind of want things for different reasons, so if you are interested in either of those, shoot me an email or just go to jeremyreeves.com and you know contact me. You could shoot me an email at support@jeremyreeves.com otherwise, if you enjoy this episode, if you think you know, your friends will benefit from it then you know, make sure you are telling people about it. Make sure you leave reviews so that our itunes rankings can go up and you know, give more people value you know. I put a lot of time into this.

So I would appreciate that and also if you leave a review, I will send you the 101 Conversion Tips PDF where you know, I list out 101 different ways to increase your conversions, start your sales funnel, and that is free. I used to sell it for $77.

So any of those would be very, very appreciated.

So that is it. I hope you get a good start to your May and again, if you are interested in working with us, then just shoot us an email or go to jeremyreeves.com and fill out the form on there, alright.

I have a team meeting in about a minute, so I will talk to you soon.

May 25 2016

30mins

Play

Rank #2: SFM EP 33: Structuring Your Sales Funnel Based On What Growth Stage You're In

Podcast cover
Read more

In episode #33 we discuss how to structure your funnel based on what stage of growth you're currently in. You should be focusing on different sales funnels and strategies based on your strategic goals, and in this episode we break them down into the "profitability" and "maximization" stages. You'll even get to hear my upcoming plans for a new business I'm partnering in, how I just made a client $70,000 in a week doing a tiny launch to his own list, and so much more!

Check it out, share it and let me know what you think!

Want To Work With Me?

Visit http://www.JeremyReeves.com or email me at Jeremy@JeremyReeves.com

Enjoy!

Transcript

Hello, everybody. This is Jeremy Reeves and I'm back today with another episode of The Sales Funnel Mastery Podcast. So today this is going to be another fairly short episode. I'm actually flying in one of my employees from Italy this weekend, actually might do a podcast with him, maybe we'll go out and have a few drinks and we'll come back and do a podcast I think that'll be fun, actually.

So one of the things that we're doing is strategizing a whole bunch of stuff for the growth of business and kind of the direction we're headed, the vision, all that kind of stuff that makes really, really big changes. If you've been following me, you know that this year has been I've made more huge changes that I've ever have and we're make even more. And the cool thing is all of them have to do with getting better results for our clients which is kind of awesome.

So when is think that we're going to be doing is putting some systems in place get guest podcasts, guest interviews on the podcast. So that's one thing coming up to the podcast. We're going to be doing it a little bit more frequently -- that kind of thing.

So with that said, what we're going to be talking about today, a lot of people get kind of stuck -- they don't really know what to do with a business, they don't know how to structure, what they should do first, what does she do second -- that kind of thing. I just brought in a new client and me and him are actually doing a revenue share deal which is basically -- I get them to send me basically an upfront fee for the initial (01:59) and then instead of doing a flat fee, so you know, I'm going to be doing A, B, and C for you, you're going to send me X dollars. We do upfront fee plus revenue share.

So I'm just kind of struggling to strategize what were gonna do for you in -- that kind of thing. It made me realize that a lot of people kind of don't know how to build their funnel in stages and this idea also came because a lot of clients come to me and I don't know if we should kind of do a mini funnel first, get that profitable and into a bigger one or if we should just do it all at once -- you know, that kind of thing.

So basically, there are two different ways of doing it. The step that I recommend, or the stages, you can call it, number one is the first thing you should do, you should be (02:52) about this, basically profitability and then maximization. When I'm talking with clients, if you come to me you should know that I don't push giant funnels right from the beginning if it doesn't make sense for the client.

What I usually do is kind of the stage 1 profitability funnel and the stage 2 maximization funnel. And that's because. I mean, number one, I want case studies -- that's why I have a million and a half case studies and get the results that we do is because we do it in steps that make it kind of easy wins.

The first stage is getting to profitability. Most businesses that I've come in contact with are already profitable what is just like taking it from whatever it is to essentially more profitability and the first thing that I always look at is you have all these different leverage points in your business you have all these key levers and what I look at is where are all the opportunities that you're not taking advantage of?

For example, this new client that came on, his name is Nick. One of the first things that I'm going to do for neck is that he get tons and tons and tons of visitors to website and people that come on to his list -- he has almost like a cult-like following, so people that come on to his list tend to buy in pretty large percentages. So the problem with that is that he has a hard time getting people on his list -- he's not doing very much to get people on to his list.

So step number one is going to be get people on his list. Another thing is that his prices -- he's getting a 70 to 80% close rate on his packages that he sells (I'm not going to get into too much information about it just for, you know, right privileges) just say 70% of client which is too high. If you're selling basically over 50-60% of people, it means your prices aren't low enough. So the first thing is that we're going to be implementing new packages for him to sell. That are probably going to be 50-100% bigger from then they are right now.

I don't know exactly how I'm going to structure that you know it might just be "it was this and now it's this". More than likely, I'm going to give him choices. So instead of "okay, it's for coaching sessions for for whatever thousand dollars or whatever it is" -- I don't even... I forget the prices on top of my head. I'm going to do something like 4 packages for $1,000 or you can buy 8 for $2,000 or whatever it is so kindly give them tiered approaches and then there's all kinds of things will do with that. We'll have some decoy offers in there. We'll make it so that if they go for the higher end package, it's this complete no-brainer badass offer -- that kind of thing.

Those are just two -- there's a lot more that I'm going to do with them and I may able to do a future podcast about it but for now, that's just kind of two examples of easy wins that we're going to go after so that's the type of stuff that I'd like to do with clients first. You know, sometimes, depending on the client that I'm working with, I actually do a little promotion for them in the beginning.

For one example, actually a promotion that I just did 2 weeks ago, the client came on (and I like to get client's an ROIs as fast as we can) so what we did was we just did a promotion to his list, he had a monthly membership, and I said "hey, why don't we just do a quick promotion, get you some money in the bank", (and I actually got a percentage of that too), so I said "instead of me charging you, I'll just just take a percent of the sales", and it was actually a pretty large percent in that case.

So what we did was we did a promotion and took his monthly subscribers -- he had them on a monthly, like 37 bucks a month, and we really made a good offer for them to upgrade to the yearly that's all we did. So it's nothing complicated, it's nothing fancy. In fact, we could have done a way better job just in terms of what the offer was but that was his easy opportunity. He he was able to get basically 12 months of revenue from the subscribers at least not even close to his 12 months of revenue but we were able to kind of pull that in in a week so I made a little over $70,000 in a week. It was actually a 60000, rough numbers, 60 grand from people that upgraded and another 20 in potential people from people who took a trial offers that we did and 50% of them, roughly, they (07:55) with the trial.

That could've been better but we had some PayPal issues and some random credit card issues -- things like that. So bottom line is that I made him $70,000 in a week before any other thing was done. So whatever he does, we're kind of figuring out what the next steps are now, but that gives him a big cash influx to then put towards more copy or better strategy for building whatever funnel we're going to do. So that's what I mean by getting profitable.

Basically, what you want to do is, regardless of where you're at, if you're not doing as well as you should be and you're having a hard time getting paid traffic to work, you're just kind of struggling, you're floundering, sometimes things work, sometimes it doesn't, it's not consistent. If you're in any kind of service or really, product business too, you're having that roller coaster income -- where your income is kind of like it dips down, and then the next month it's high, it dips down, next month it's high, dips down -- you know, that kind of thing.

What you want to do is get the funnel in place just to get it profitable, get it? So that it can sustain you. Don't worry about getting this complicated, fancy funnels and survey funnels and really advanced segmentation -- and that kind of thing.

I actually have a new webinar about taking to the second level, the next level, you know the maximization. But if you're struggling a little bit right now, don't worry about that because what happens is -- and its not that I don't work because it obviously works but that's the second level -- what happens is -- and I see this over and over and over and over again -- people get stuck they see it and it's like "oh my god, that's just too much I can't do it", and mentally, it just paralyzes you. You can't figure out how to get everything done, if you're coming to someone like me, it's too expensive -- you know, that kind of thing. And then it just never gets done and then a year goes by and you're at the exact same place that you are right now.

When people come to me, I try to not get them to fall into that indecision trap. What I'll typically say is that "okay, let's just get a simple funneled out", and that differs a lot between various businesses but let's just say it's just like a typical landing page and you have a retargeting coming back to that and then you have a sales letter with a free trial exit pop-up, you have some prospect emails, you have some buyer emails and a couple of upsells -- like that's a pretty typical upsell funnel. If you're offline, maybe you add in some radio ads or newspaper ad or direct mail or you know, that kind of thing.

If you're some kind of service, you add what I call ' Pre-engagement Framing Sequence' which is basically before people talk to you, you're kind of like pre-selling them on the call to talk to them like for a free consultation or whatever so it looks different from between the different businesses but the thing is if you are not already doing really, really well, we want to focus on that is just getting to that point where are you can sustain your self, you have a little bit of cash to invest back in the business, you can buy paied traffic -- that kind of thing.

So you just get it to that point first and then what you do is you move on to -- you look at it again and say "okay, now that we're here, what are the new opportunities?" because when every time you change something, new opportunities are going to pop up. So now, maybe you realize that you have a very specific segment of the market that is willing to pay you more, like, you can kind of break down what you do and give a service to a very specific segment of your market.

So what you do in that point, now we're in stage 2, the maximization part, is, well, maybe you have a really high-end coaching program, so let's just say you have the coaching program, just for example, for 2,000 hours, what are the parts of stage 2 might be looking at the opportunity that you have a segment of that market that is willing to pay you 4 to 5 times more money for a very much more specific service that gets them really fast, really good results.

And you might be able to not with a coaching program that's instead of 2 or 3 grand, maybe its 8 or 10 grand I need you a launch for them -- so you're basically splitting them up and then maybe move on and you segment people in the beginning of the funnel based on their interests and then that increases not only your front end conversion rates, but it also increases your lead rate ratio. So if you're closing just say 2% of people before, maybe you'll get that up to 3% or whatever the case is.

And then you can add in you know things like behavioral emails and that's a thing I do a lot, you can add in a different automated webinar, usually that's kind of step number 1 for service businesses at least. You can add in higher-end services, you can add in direct mail, you can add in doing phone calls two people who just bought, to new customers. You can add in different upsell packages interplay what you're doing is finding smaller and smaller -- you're getting more segmented as you go.

So that's kind of the big thing with step number 2 -- it's segmentation and just looking and it comes with a lot more strategy now that you're kind of moving up to like and upper echelon of business and instead of just trying to make it work, now you're trying to kind of sky rockets the business and really take it to scale. So you're doing all these things, maybe add in more upsells depending on what pages they buy or they go to -- you know, they're getting emails, they're getting different sequences and that there's a lot more that you can do with that. I have the kind of breaks it down for you.

So again, kind of a summary of everything is that if you're in this phase right now where you're doing okay -- you know, you're doing well but you're not doing great, then we want to do is really hone in just get your funnel in place. Spend somewhere between like 5 to 8 to, like, $15,000 for sale getting your funnel in place now as a stage 1 funnel. You know, those are the prices that I would charge for, something in that range, again, it differs tremendously but then once you go past that, what I do with clients is that once we see the results, is like "okay, now you're doing really well", why don't we take that to the next level?"

So then we go back and we say "okay, what does stage number 2 look like for you?" and then we go back and we restructure the funnel and say "okay, we're going to add in -- we're going to do a survey up here -- we're going to split them into three segments for autoresponder series, we're going to redo the sales letters, we're going to split the sales letters up so instead of having one general sales letter, you have one for each of those segments that we found out on the back and also we're going add in a high-end service so we're going to do a webinar for that, for all the buyers and then also all the prospects who don't buy and we retarget them into that webinar, we'll do a postcard campaign for all buyers that sends them to that webinar and then we'll reach out maybe to specific people based on their behaviors, what they're doing in the website" -- so all that stuff.

And then we kind of retool it so you go from where you are now to stage 1 which is doing well, you're sustaining yourself, you're growing but not quite at the piece that you want to, and then you move on to stage 2. And that's when things really fun because then you start looking a lot more at your Analytics, you start breaking things down into hyperresponsive segments and all that stuff and you really start honing in on your back end and then once in that stage you kind of focus from -- most businesses want to be profitable on the front end and it's a giant mistake.

It's okay in the beginning if you're just trying to get into that sustainability, that's stage 1 -- you know, a lot of businesses are at, but if you really want you scale it, we want to do is get to break even on the front end and then let your back end take care of all your profits and I know it all sounds kind of counter-intuitive but it's pretty much what every giant company in the world does whether you want to believe it or not but yeah it allows you when you break even on the front end, allows you to go after a more broad audience and then you use all the automation tools and all the different segmentation tools and things like that break it down so that you can go after a broad audience that you're still talking to them in a very specific way that allows you to attract, acquire the most amount of customers I'm trying for less than your competitors are or you're basically spending more money to acquire each customer because you have the backend to them, make up for it that's basically how you go from stage 1 to stage 2.

Okay? So I thought that was pretty long-winded, I hope that helps and if you were -- you know, a lot of people on this podcast I get tons of people who listen to this and they get in touch with me because they want me help them build their sales funnel so if you are a little bit confused -- you know, kind of what funds you need the started going from where you are from point A to point B or if you just didn't know, if you're trying to do this all on your own and you just didn't know how to structure it cuz there's a million and a half different ways to structure a sales funnel -- I hope that gives you a little bit of clarity.

If you're getting a lot out of this podcast, I have two requests actually, cuz I never really ask, but if you're enjoying this podcast, I just wanted to ask you to leave me a review. You just go to iTunes or whatever you listen to and leave a review for the podcast and then shoot me an email I'll find something to give to you for free I don't even know what it is right now but I'll send you something I'll look through my files, maybe if I have an old product in there but I don't sell anymore -- something like that -- I'll shoot you something for free, kind of like a surprise thank you gift.

So again, go on iTunes and leave a review on how the podcast has helped you. That's going to help me -- again, I want to do a bigger push two kind of grows a podcast so that's pretty much the biggest thing that's going to help -- so again, if you getting value out of this, which I know a lot of you do because I get emails all the time, then I would really appreciate if you would go in -- it only takes 30 seconds to leave a review.

And the reason actually why I'm saying this is because I actually left review for somebody else. So go ahead and do that and also if you are interested in building a funnel, just shoot me an email. It's Jeremy@JeremyReeves.com, let me know that you're a podcast listener that always helps, I always like to know what parts of my marketing are working well and that kind of thing.

So just get in touch with me, let me know where your business is at right now, where you're looking to take it, that kind of thing and will hop on the phone and see if me and you are a fit and yeah we'll go from there and I know I'm doing a lot of exciting things for clients and then after this week we're actually -- one of the things on our list is creating an unforgettable experience for clients so it's going to be pretty badass.

So anyway, I hope you enjoyed this, look forward to another podcast episode -- probably in the next week or so. Again, I'm probably gonna end up doing a kind of a drinking podcast with one of my employees, Shaun. So that's going to be pretty interesting. So yeah, I will see you and make sure you tune in and also, by the way, I got a question a couple of days ago about somebody -- he wanted to know how to get updates of the podcast when I do new podcast episodes and one of the ways to do that is just go and get on my list cuz I always send that on broadcast email, when I have a new podcast out.

So just do that and I have a lot of cool stuff on the site. I have webinars, I have free reports, and stuff like that. So just kind of get on my list somehow and whatever sounds cool to you and then you can go ahead and you'll get emails when I have a new podcast. And and then also if you have a podcast player on your phone, then it should update automatically, okay?

so that's it for me today, I will talk to you soon and again, number one - leave a review, number two - get in touch if you want help building your funnel, and then number three - go to our website www.JeremyReeves.com and sign up for everything if you want to get updates from when I launch a new podcast. Alright! I will talk to you soon. Bye!

Sep 29 2015

21mins

Play

Rank #3: How To Structure The Perfect Sales Letter

Podcast cover
Read more

In this episode, I walk you through one of the templates we use for constructing a new sales letter. I walk you through each individual section and explain what it is, why it's there and how to write better copy at each stage. Enjoy!

Make sure to SHARE this podcast/episode with your friends, then leave us a REVIEW and get my "101 Conversion Tips" Cheat Sheet... free! Send an email to support@jeremyreeves.com with the name on your review.

 

Resources Mentioned

* http://www.JeremyReeves.com

Want To Work With Me?

Visit http://www.JeremyReeves.com or email me at Jeremy@JeremyReeves.com

Enjoy!

Transcript

Hey guys and girls, Jeremy Reeves here with another episode of the Sales Funnel Mastery Podcast and I am really, really, really excited today. We have a client in the real estate coaching market and as you can imagine you know, I do not know how familiar you are with Google but getting something like that approved in Google is not an easy feat and we just got her approved in Google which is really, really exciting. So that is awesome. So I am very excited about that.

So now comes the moment of testing and tweaking and doing that for everybody here.

So today, I want to go over -- I want to go over basically what it takes to craft a sales letter okay. Basically, the structure of the sales letter because I know a lot of people kind of struggle with this, they you know, they are not good writers. They do not really know how to lay it out, structure, that kind of thing.

So I want to take you basically step by step through the basic sales funnel structure that we used for you know, for our clients and I want to preface this by saying that this is just kind of a beginning template to use, okay. This is not something that needs to be followed 100%. In fact, the sales letter for the client that I was talking about does not follow this sequence okay, because hers is very, very story-based.

So we kind of weaved all of this stuff into her story okay, like we used her story to structure it like this. Okay, so there is -- you know, in that case, we broke the rules, but I mean that is what we do every single day, day in and day out. So we have the knowledge and the skill set to be able to do that. If you are in a position where you -- you know, you cannot afford to hire a copywriter that can you know, knows when and how to break the rules, this is really, really, really good structure for you to follow okay.

So first of all, you are going to start off with the headline. Actually, let me step back. First of all, you need to know that you are writing to their core desires and frustrations. One of the biggest mistakes that people make is when they are selling their product, they talked about you know, the features of the product. They talked about why the product is so incredible and you know, and this kind of thing and that is kind of how the page starts and that is the wrong way of doing it because the first thing when you are writing your copy, you need to be writing to the core desires and frustration. You need to be writing the copy to overcome all of the objections and the beliefs.

Basically, you have to overcome all the objections and that in turn helps them believe that your product is going to work for them and it is going to be the solution for their problem and that is what makes the sale, okay.

So as you are writing, that is kind of the core of everything is to write to their core desires and frustrations and overcome the objections that they have in their mind so that they believe that whatever it is that you are selling is the solution to their problem, okay.

So with that said, first of all, you are going to start off with the headline. Everything, you know, I mean basically every page that you have starts off with the headline. So in the headline -- this is going to differ based on a lot of different factors but you know, one of the good places to start is you know, is kind of bring out and say, Hey, do you have this problem. Now you do not actually say, you know, are you suffering from you know, whatever gout or are you suffering from you know, whatever it is.

You can also kind of, you can also write this in a way that tells them that you could help them with the problem, okay. The headline is essentially used to grab attention, okay. I am not going to go like the various headline templates and all that kind of stuff right now.

The headline is used to get their attention, okay. Imagine your prospect is looking at different screens and they scroll across, they see your headline, okay.

You want that headline to get them to read the first sentence of the copy. That is the goal of the headline. It is not to sell your product. It is not to do anything else but to get them to read the first sentence of your copy, okay.

And then, that brings them into the opening or the lead, okay. That basically what you want to do, okay, is you want to intrigue them, okay. The lead is all about curiosity and intrigue and tapping into the dominant emotions that they are feeling as of this moment.

So you know, let us just say, you know, Hey, have you ever woken up in the morning and you know, you wake up and let us just say that you are selling something for pain relief, right. So when was the last time that you woke up and by the way, I am doing this off top of my head, so it is not going to be perfect.

When was the last time you woke up out of the dead sleep and took you know, took one step and your knees buckled and you know, you curse to yourself thinking why cannot I just have the joints that I used to have when I was a teenager, you know. I am sure that the last time that happened is probably this morning. I am sure it has also happened yesterday, the day before that, the week before that, the month before that, the whole year before that and if you want that to stop I am about to show you, you know, 3 things that are going to help you heal your joint pain without expensive medications, without you know, any dangerous surgeries you know, blah, blah, blah.. okay.

So essentially what you are doing is intriguing them, tapping into those, to those dominant fears and emotions and desires that they are currently feeling and getting them again to read the page, to read the next sentence. That is all -- as you, as you are building your sales letter, what you want to do is get them to read the next line. That is the goal all the way to the bottom and if they keep doing that, they will buy your product because you are essentially saying the right things, you are overcoming their objections, you are tapping into the desires that they have, you are showing them that your product is the solution for their problem, that kind of thing, okay.

So that is the lead, it is essentially -- you just, you resonate with them, you know. You kind of -- you have a discussion with them. Hey, you know, are you suffering from this you know, I can be able to show you this, you know, blah, blah, blah and you are being very, very empathetic to their you know, to their needs and desires and frustrations and all that kind of thing, okay.

And then you are going to lead in with credibility and sometimes, a lot of times, you will actually, you will actually show them you know, you will actually give them content, okay. So if you said, you are going to give them 3 ways to -- in this section, you are going to -- this is kind of like the body of the copy. You are going to essentially given them what you just told them you are going to give them, okay.

Usually, like when you are structuring this, if you say that you are going to help them whatever, overcome whatever problem they are facing. This part of the section is the, is kind of like they credit about you actually doing that and the way that you structured this is that essentially you just -- you overcome their objections okay. So you know, if they said, you know, if in their mind if your market thinks that the best solution for them is you know, again, going back to the knee pain problem. If they think that the best solution for them is going to the doctors getting steroid shots, getting surgery, that kind of thing, you then overcome that objection by showing them why that is not necessary, okay and that of course leads them into your product which would be like an all natural safe solution that kind of thing.

So in the body of the copy you are essentially you know, you are telling your story, a lot of time that is usually how it is. Okay, let me step back for a minute and tell you my story. Let me tell you how I got here, you know.

And the recent one I wrote for one of my clients we kind of did that. We opened with a really like -- it is a really engaging lead that got them and it kind of like shook them up a little bit, but then we went back and we did. We said okay, you know, let us come back to this in just a minute okay, and then I went into their story you know, let me tell you how I first discovered this new, you know, incredible miracle nutrient thingy.

And we told them about this (inaudible 9:05.8) that he had through the rainforest and how he met this guy and he gave him this like mystery substance and you know, it was just really like dramatic story that lead into him discovering this new thing that he then you know, that he then test it and you know, we talked about his background and how his background allowed him to do all this like fancy testing on it to make sure it work properly and test it on people, you know, blah, blah, blah and you know, I went through all this expense before I brought it to you and that kind of thing.

So you layer this -- the body of it with credibility and proof that what you are about to show them you know, actually works and a better choice than something else that they have, okay.

So that -- I mean you get to the part where you are at the introduction. So this is just basically an introduction of the product. So you know, introducing product X and then you know, product X is a revolutionary new thing that does this and this for you.

In particular, you will find out that the you know, the second you start taking it or the second that you know, you kind of you know, introduce into your life, you will experience and then bullets, okay.

And that is the next thing you know, is bullets you know, it is going to help you this, this, this, this. It is also going to help you this, this, this, this. In a sense of -- a lot of times -- and this is why it is hard to structure a sales letter because everyone is very, very different you know. This is a longer form of sales letter. If you are doing something like a product page, that is a little bit different, okay, and that is actually something that we are doing right now for a client, 2 of them actually.

So you know, after you introduce the product, you go through step by step exactly you know, what it is exactly you know, the details of it. So like if you are selling an information product that is going to be the modules, you know. In module 1 and then the tail of it. In module 1, you will discover -- you know, bullet, bullet, bullet, bullet, bullet. In module 2, you will discover bullet, bullet, bullet, bullet, bullet. If it is a supplement or a product you can talk about you know, the details of it, so exactly you know, what ingredients are in it and exactly how it was made and why it is made like in a certain unique fashion.

Basically, you know, you are layering on the proof and the credibility to what you already started talking about but now it is more along the lines of, okay you know, I have already, I have already kind of found out that you are having this problem and that is what you did in the very beginning of it. So they would not be reading the page if they did not still have that problem. So hey, you know, I already told you about the various solutions and why they do not work and here is the new solution that does work and let me show you why it works so well. So you are in that stage right now.

So you know, so you talked about the product you know, you talked about -- you know, a lot of people go into the benefits or the features. Basically, features are okay, the problem and I know there is this big thing with copywriting, the problem is, if you only write about features, it does not tap into the emotions, it does not tap into the desires that your prospects are having to overcome the problem that they are facing, okay.

So that is why you have to say feature and then the benefit of that feature, okay.

So again, it is not just feature it is feature plus benefit.

So let us just say that -- for example, we just had a product that were about to launch from one of our other supplement client actually. And we talked about this liposome delivery you know, nutrient delivery, and it is basically liposomes help deliver the new trend to your cells and you know, they help absorption. Basically, it is more (inaudible 12:55.3) but you get more out of it you know. So for every milligram that you take, you are getting -- it is that much more potent because of this new delivery system.

So we talked about you know, the liposome delivery system but we do not say like, Oh you know, it does this -- like we talk about how it benefits that person, okay. We talk about why the liposome delivery system is important to getting better results from the product and how it is going to change their life because of that, okay.

You go through all those. You kind of pile them on there. And then you get to the you know, the price, the guarantee that kind of thing, so it’s you know, Hey, it is only you know, it is only whatever you know, it is a dollar a day you know, whatever your pricing is, price justification. You say why it is such a bargain for them and you can do this by the way, you can do this regardless of how much it actually cost. It does not matter if it is $10, if it is $15,000. You should not be selling a product that you cannot deliver at least 5 to 10 times the value for. So, if it is $10, it should be worth at least $50 to $100 for them. If you are selling over $10,000 it should be worth at least $50 to $100,000. So you can say, you know, I mean the price justification is basically the same. It is structured the same way regardless of what you are selling. So you have the price justification.

If it is a cheap product, if it is kind of just an impulse buy you do not have to go into this very long, okay. If it is you know -- essentially, the higher price it is the more you have to justify the price, okay. (inaudible 14:38.5)

And then you go into the guarantee and by the way you know, it is you know, it is thousand dollars and you know, if you do not get XX result within 90 days, we will refund you in full and you know, whatever your guarantee is. We will give you double your money back. We will, you know, you have a lifetime guarantee, whatever your guarantees, you talk about that and then you have a call to action, okay.

And then you go into who it is for and who it is not for. So you list out a couple of the qualities of the people that you want in buying this and of course, you know, you are making this up. So you are not going to say like, you are not -- in this part you do not get too specific, okay. What you do is you get, you get specific enough so that you are telling, you are explaining the right type of person that you want to buy this. So, you know, you are looking for achievers. You are not looking for people who are going to use this as to get rich quick scheme and you know, that kind of thing.

So you are keeping it like semi broad but you are using it in the way this kind of like you know, a little bit of like reverse psychology. You kind of have to -- it is a fine line of thread. And this is where good copywriting comes in, well, I mean the whole page does but you know.

So essentially, you are telling them specifically the type of person that should be buying this and the type of person who should not be buying this. So for example, if you are selling a let us just say a product for crossfit athletes right. You are going to say this is for people who you know, who love crossfit, who you know, could not stand doing long boring cardio you know, it is not for people who like the skinny fat look and you know, only you know, they want to stay skinny, they do not care about muscle and that is why they only jog and they do not work out you know, whatever it is.

You are essentially creating polarity. So in who it is for, you are saying exactly who it is for and then who it is not for. You are kind of making fun of the people that you do not want to buy. You are making fun of the -- if you are thinking of it in terms of you know, us versus them, okay, so think of like Mac versus PC. If you are thinking about it like that which every market has this you know, the whole us versus them. For me the us is you know serious entrepreneurs looking to build a serious business. They are looking to grow and automate the marketing as they grow, make it more casual stable that kind of thing.

For me the people who it is not is you know, people looking to do you know, get rich quick kind of products or projects I mean, you know build funnels where they just want to build it and they never even touch it again, they never even think about it again, like that kind of thing, that is my you know, nemesis. That is the exact opposite of what I am looking for, okay.

So essentially, you are creating polarity and then you do what it is and what it is not. So you say like you know, this is you know, it is going to help you do this. It is not going to help you. It is very similar to the who it is for and who it is not for but it is just you know, kind of slightly tweaked a little bit.

And then you can do you know, you can do something like a comparison chart, you know, you go into -- you are going in for the close now, okay. So you could do -- a one good close is you know, you are at crossroads, by the way you have another call to action after the who it is for and not for and what it is and is not, you have another call to action.

And then the last section is the you know, the close. So you know, you are at the crossroads right now. You came in to this page knowing that you are suffering from problem X. I showed you why there are better solutions out there that you do not have to listen to everything else you know, that has been said about solving this problem. I have shown you a proof that you know, you could see through all of our case studies. You can see it through the experience that I have you know. Again, you kind of reiterate all the proof that you put on the page just in case they skim the page and did not really see it. You reiterate all that proof in a quick little summary okay.

And then you say, so now, the choice is up to you. So you put it in their -- you put the decision you know, in their hands. You give them the responsibility okay which I mean it is because they are buying. So you say you know, there is basically you know, imagine closing your eyes you come into fork in the road. If you take the left you are going down the same path you have always been down. You are going to stay in pain, you are going or you know, whatever the problem is soon the, you know, the knee pain example, you are going to stay in pain, you are going to put yourself through you know, torture for the next however many years you know. Every year that you live, your knees are not going to get better unless you take action now.

Like you give them basically a motivational (inaudible 19:13.8) you know what I mean and say why they are essentially crazy for not taking action right now or you can look to the right. The right is you know, when you invest in my product and you know, within 7 to 30 days or 7 to 10 days or whatever the timeline is for you, you know, you are going to feel this much better, it is going to do this for your life you know, your friends are going to wonder what your secret is, you are going to be able to you know, jump up out of bed with no pain, you are going to be able to you know, play with your grandkids again, you are going to be able to do activities like play golf without pain every time that you come in for the follow through, you are going to be able to you know, whatever. You essentially paint a picture for them for the future, okay.

So in the left side, you are saying why the past was so bad. On the right side, and this obviously be (inaudible 20:07.6) you are going to paint a picture for them. Paint a vision of the future for them about what is going to happen to their life when they buy your product okay, and that is essentially your close and you have another call to action and then you sign off you put you know, thanks in your good health you know, however you sign off you know, on your things and then you can have a P.S. you know, I am not a believer like -- there is a very old kind of myth in copywriting that everybody reads your P.S. I am not a believer in that because I have seen you know heat map studies and I have watched videos of people you know, reading pages and that kind of thing and it is really not how people read pages.

So you could either put a P.S. or not you know, a lot of times, for example, one example is if you have proof that does not quite fit into what you are talking about before it is like you know, you kind of going like A, B, C and then like F, but it also adds a little bit more proof, it is kind of like a little side benefit you know, it is kind of like if you are going out and buying a TV and you were like, Ah, no that is alright and then the guy comes and says, Oh, you know, I will give you this cool fancy remote if you buy and I will give you, you know an extra like 6 months warranty, it is kind of like that extra little tiny push to get you over the fence. That is what the P.S. is you know, in my opinion is good for and then that is your sales letter.

Obviously it sounds a lot easier than this. But you know, again, that was a long form sales letter, okay. If you are selling a product page, I know not everybody listening to this is going to have a long form sales letter, okay.

Just for example, we are getting into the SaaS space the B2B SaaS space, so by the way if you are listening to this and you have a B2B SaaS company, shoot me an email because I want to talk to you about something. It is going to be probably the most badass thing you would ever seen in your life. That is actually one of our 2 secret projects that we are working on right now.

So anyway, in SaaS companies, you know, they are not going to have long form sales letter. What you do in situation like that or if you are selling a product or you know, you just do not like the look of a long form sales letter whatever the case is, essentially, what you are doing is breaking this structure down into the various pages of your website, okay.

So you know, I mean it is kind of hard to explain, I have to show you an example, but essentially, just think of this, you know, you have the headline, you have the opening or the lead, you have the kind of transition like the empathy resonating with them that section which is usually part of the lead, you know, you have your proof and credibility, you have your introduction of the product, you have the bullets, the benefits like you know, exactly what the product is, what it helps you know, what it does for you that kind of thing, you have your guarantee, you have you know, who it is for and not for, you could put in like a comparison chart, you have -- let us see you know, (inaudible 23:19.1) better than competition which you know, goes along with the comparison chart, you have your close and you know, P.S. that kind of thing.

You can break that up into different pages of your sales funnel, and if you need an example of this just shoot me an email. I can send you an example of this if that would help you, otherwise, I hope that explains it.

So that is it, that is kind of how you structure a sales letter. That is kind of basic formula that you can use to structure sales funnel if you do not have the money to hire a copywriter or if you just want to kind of check the copywriters work or whatever it is or if you just hire us and you do not worry about any of that because you know it would be done right.

Anyway that is it, I hope it helps you. As usual, if you enjoyed this episode share with friends, go on iTunes and leave as a review and remember that if you leave us a review and shoot me an email at support@jeremyreeves.com we will send you our free product that is something that we used to sell for $77 it is a 101 Conversion Tips that you can use to increase your conversions throughout your entire sales funnel and yeah, if you are interested in getting in touch, support@jeremyreeves.com and my staff will forward the email to me and otherwise I will talk to you soon.

Feb 16 2016

24mins

Play

Rank #4: Clayton Makepeace On 1.5 Billion Dollars In Copywriting Wisdom

Podcast cover
Read more

In today's episode we talk to the $1.5 BILLION dollar copywriter - Clayton Makepeace. Clayton is an absolute legend in the industry and is now semi-retired, working with just one single client, yet he graciously came on the show to talk to us about how to write world-class copy that increases revenue every single time. This is a must-listen episode!

Resources Mentioned

awaionline.com

Want To Work With Me?

Visit http://www.JeremyReeves.com or email me at Jeremy@JeremyReeves.com

Enjoy!

Transcript

Jeremy Reeves: Hey everyone, this is Jeremy Reeves with another episode of a sales funnel mastery podcast and today I have on the line, one of the best living copywriters in the world right now, his name is Clayton Makepeace, and I will let him get into his you know, into his background and all that kind of stuff and who he has worked for, what kind of copy he writes, and all that kind of stuff, but let us just say this, he has made -- he has up to 1.5 billion dollars in sales writing copy which blows me out of the water.

So Clayton, how are you buddy.

Clayton Makepeace: I am doing good. It is good to be here.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I am excited to have you.

So before we you know, we get into questions and all that kind of stuff, tell everybody a little bit you know, go into a little bit more detail about who you are, who you have worked for, some of the copy you have done and that kind of thing so they can get a good understanding of who they are listening to.

Clayton Makepeace: Sure, well, really quickly. I have been writing copy for 43 years, it is about to be 44. I started back in the 70s. I have written for the health industry as well as for financial. I started out in the financial industry and then people (inaudible 1:11.1) and said, hey, we want to start an alternative health newsletter, would you write a promo for it and I agreed reluctantly.

So we launch Health and Healing which was the world’s first alternative health newsletter. We sold 2 million subscriptions to that $29 newsletter.

Prior to that, I had taken two companies to over 100 million in sales (inaudible 1:42.4) we start from $300,000 a month in sales to $16 million a month in sales in 1 year.

Jeremy Reeves: Wow!

Clayton Makepeace: And then (inaudible 1:49.7) company from about $20 million a year in sales to $120 million and then I started freelancing again and did the Health and Healing thing for Phillips.

Then in the late 90s, I established relationship with Weiss Research and we turned safe money reported to the largest $98 investment newsletter in the world at that time and (inaudible 2:23.4) doing their acquisition program as well as their health style promotions. We just completed one selling high price investment advisory service.

The service went for $3,000 and we did 15 million dollars in 4 months on that promotion.

So it is a lot of fun, keeps you active that is for sure.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely, definitely. So that kind of gives everybody a good background that you clearly know what you are talking about after that much you know, that experience and you know, it is a pretty impressive you know resume.

So I have a whole bunch of questions lined up for you and I could probably have you on the phone for the next like be in a week and a half straight, but we will kind of keep it within you know 45 minutes or so.

So I kind of -- I have some questions some are for copywriting you know, just salesmanship and then the other ones are for basically, I think it is going to help really anybody in the service industry you know, get clients and then also make like maximize the money that they make with clients you know, themselves and for other clients.

So let us start with something of the copy questions. So my first one is and this is you know, I know that you could probably talk about this one for an entire day, but you know, when you are researching and you are one of the big things with copywriting and you know, writing any kind of package is the big idea you know, the hook.

So what is your process for finding that you know, because there is one big one for each and another is kind of like a couple of mini ones even throughout the packages, but do you have any kind of specific process that you go through with that or do you kind of just keep like researching until it you know, until it hits you or what are your thoughts on that.

Clayton Makepeace: Well, usually the hooks come fairly quickly to me. I do not have to -- I almost never do research in order to come up with a hook.

I am looking for you know, what is a hook? What is the purpose of it? Right. Well it is something that is going to focus the mind on either the problem that the product solves or on the solution itself, right.

So if you are focusing the mind, let us say, in the financial area. You are focusing the mind on the problem well the problem might be an impending crash in the stock market. So that would be your lead. That is where you would be focusing on. You would be explaining why you know this is about to happen. How much people lost last time. How you know, bloody it is going to be this time that kind of thing and you would begin with that. That would be your hook.

If you have a product that has a really unique solution, then you might begin with that and that is basically the big promise headline.

We have -- we are working at a promotion right now where the profit potential from these investments if you win is like winning a lottery. It is like you know, even that is $10,000, walk away with 10 million dollars. I mean it is just enormous, okay.

So, on something like that, you might want to lead with the actual benefit of the product. Also, quite often we will look at the product and I will say, what is a good metaphor and we are talking about the lead you know, how to get in, how to start the conversation.

So I will say, what is the good metaphor for what this product does. One of the products I am working on right now, look at it, okay, well this product is like having a rich uncle anytime I need money I just need to call him up and he will send a check or it is like having my own personal ATM or is like having a money tree in my backyard. Anytime I need a little extra money, I just go out and just pick it off of the tree or it could be -- maybe it is like a slot machine that pays off every single time you pull the handle, right.

So I came up with a bunch of these metaphors that very quickly focus the mind on the benefit. Wow, could it really be that easy, right, and then it is just up to you to explain, yeah, it can be.

Here is how it works. Maybe it could be a story if you have one or it could be constructed or it could be (inaudible 7:05.7) from the news. Anything that your prospect is thinking about -- he has feelings about. So he is worried about it. He is curious about it. He is fearful about it. He is excited about it. So somebody is reading about the elections right now for example that is dominating the news. How are they feeling about the elections. How are they feeling about the various candidates. How can you take what he has already thinking about and insert yourself into that conversation that he is having with himself.

So those are just some of the things that I look for when I am looking for a lead.

Jeremy Reeves: Okay, nice. What if it say something like you know, because even in the -- I do a lot of work in the like in a supplements base health, the health industry and some of the products that (inaudible 7:54.9) a lot of benefits.

So one example is like turmeric you know, it does not just do one thing, it is like it helps with your brain, it helps with you know, metabolism and fatigue and all different kind of things.

How do you -- if it is something like that works not just like the one big benefit or one big problem that is kind of like mixed up you know, how do you take a look at things like that.

Clayton Makepeace: Well I have done a lot of supplement promotions as well. In fact, I have one -- we mailed 90 million pieces of. It was for (inaudible 8:27.4) for health resources.

I have to say that, basically, you stopped looking at the product and you start looking at your market you know, if a particular substance lifts your mood and also prevents heart disease which do you think you should leave it. You know, you are going to leave with a health problem that is shared by the largest number of your people and that is also intense enough to make him want to take action to alleviate it and that is why you know, typically and I know there are some promotion now where brain supplements are starting to work and anti-aging to a lesser extent, but those things have never done as well as because you are talking about things that are not screaming, crying, problems that people have right now, right.

So they have never worked as well as the prostate cure, the heart cure, the blood pressure cure, the cancer cure you know, arthritis cure you know, the things have people are dealing with every single day. So I would look for the benefit that shared by the most people and is also intense enough to cause people to want immediate relief.

Jeremy Reeves: Okay, got it. That makes a lot of sense. And so you know, speaking of you know, a lot of -- I mean really, a lot of it comes down to or almost everything comes down to understanding who you are talking to you know, so I am sure you have some kind of process for doing the research, understanding the market, understanding the product that you are selling, all that kind of stuff.

Do you have like a structure way of doing that or you kind of just start you know, dig in somewhere and then see you know, where it leads you or is it something like you do this first then second you know, how do you --

Clayton Makepeace: I do not have to worry about that too much anymore because I am focusing on the financial market and so you know, I learned decades ago who these people are and I have got a pretty good handle on that. It has not changed much over the years, but for example, when I went in to the health market for the first time it was like 1990 and I was doing my first health promotion and I say, well I do not even know who these people are you know, there bunch of -- (inaudible 10:48.7) you know, obsessed with their own health and so I did not share anything in common with those folks and so I went to the bookstore and I went to the aisle with all the books on various aspects of alternative health and I started looking at the chapter titles. The titles of the books and also the chapter titles and I figured out you know, which ones were the best sellers and so again, you know, the people I am going to be talking to are the people who made these the best sellers, right.

Then I went to the news rack and I looked at the alternative health magazine like prevention and others and all other world health magazine and I looked at the various covers that they had and you know, I knew from friends of mine that did work for (inaudible 11:48.6) had several covers for prevention magazine each time it went out and so they had years of research on what kinds of articles (inaudible 12:01.7) on the cover that sell the magazine.

Jeremy Reeves: Okay.

Clayton Makepeace: So you know, by looking at what -- again, by looking at what my prospects are reading I got some really good cues as to who they were and what would get them and then also you can go to the Standard Rate and Data Service which is (inaudible 12:23.2) 30-pound book (inaudible 12:25.9) can get it all electronically, but Standard Rate and Data Service, you can look up all the competitors of your client. You can also look up your client and you can find out what the people bought in order to get his list.

Then finally, you go to your client you say, hey look, show me what has worked in the past. Show me what has not worked in the past. Show me the most effective or successful promotion in any of your competitors are using and show me some (inaudible 12:58.1) that they put out there.”

And all of that is -- not just a cue to what is working, it is a clue to you know, who your market is and what will get their attention.

Jeremy Reeves: Okay, got you. So at this point you know, you have your -- you understand who you are talking to, you have the lead, you have the you know, the headline, the big idea all that kind of stuff so then you know, you kind of write the package.

How about the offers? That is an area that I found that a lot of people do not put enough attention on you know, and I have worked with -- I worked with I mean everybody from you know, people kind of just starting to work with the 12-figure company right now. And a lot of -- I have done a couple with like infomercial kind of products and when I worked with them, I noticed that like 80% of their thinking at least goes into exactly what the offer is going to be you know.

So when you are putting these packages together, how do you put an offer together including you know, the bonuses, the price point, even the names of the products, things like that.

Clayton Makepeace: There is a lot there. Mainly the products for example, we are not selling Campbell suits so we do not have to you know, naming strategies are very different in the retail space than they are in the directors (inaudible 14:14.3) because in the retail space, the whole idea to come up with the name that will stick in someone’s mind so the next time they are at the store maybe they will remember your product and buy it, right. Very tenuous. (inaudible 14:28.0) direct response (inaudible 14:29.1) very nervous with that kind of nebulous, tenuous connection, but that is what they are doing you know. They are just trying to get a name that will stick in your brain.

In our promotions, the name of the product quite often does not show up until 2/3 of the way through the promotion you know. We (inaudible 14:49.6) third of the promotion capturing the guys attention getting him to read. The next they are telling our story and the final (inaudible 14:57.2) presenting our solution which is a product.

So the name of the product is less important to us; however, whenever I may name a product I tried to get a benefit into the name and I try not to worry about it being too descriptive. For example, I am working on something right now, it is a service that helps you invest in small mining shares, right. A gold mining companies that are very small and the stock is cheap. They are called Junior Miners.

You know, somebody wanted to call it Junior Miner, (inaudible 15:39.0) something like that, right. Well that is descriptive, but there is no benefit there and also there is too much information. The word junior makes me think that maybe the service is not worth that much so you know, because I do not know if you are really -- if junior is modifying miners or if you know, describing a service you know, it would be quite simple to just drop it and say, Mining Millionaire you know, we are gold mining millionaire. Now you got gold because you know that your market is extremely excited about gold. Mining which is descriptive. We are not you know, we are not buying bullion we are buying money shares and millionaire which is the benefit, right.

So I tend to look at it that way for (inaudible 16:31.3). The author needs to write -- if you are a freelancer though your client has already spent hopefully hours and hours on author and comes to you with a product that is fairly well conceived and (inaudible 16:46.4) comfortable with based on their own testing and their own track record.

So that is usually good, but I always encouraged writers if you see something that you think can be improved, talk to your client about it because they love that. They feel like they are getting something extra other than just copywriting.

I just had a situation where they gave me a product per month and I said, I absolutely hate it and they said, well, we are going to do it anyway and I said, well, okay, and I just turned to one of my junior copywriters and I said good luck buddy you know, this is your project and then probably should say this, well, actually Clayton, we are hoping you would write it.

So I said okay, you know, I guess you know, if that will make you happy, I will write about it -- tell you right upfront this really sucks.

And so the first thing I did was I changed the name of the service (inaudible 17:42.4) was I changed the focus of the service and the next thing I did was I changed the offer. It was the buy 3 years kit, 5 years offer. I changed the guarantee -- basically, I did not have to promote the service that they told me to promote because I completely changed it into something that it was not (inaudible 18:01.4) to promote.

Jeremy Reeves: Nice.

Clayton Makepeace: So when you see opportunities like that, take them you know.

In terms of the author, basically you are just looking to create as much value as you can. We have a fairly standard template in the newsletter field. If you subscribe to 1 year, you will get 1 or 2 special reports and a premium. So you are connected with the subject matter at hand, and if you take 2 years, you will get 3 to 4 additional reports and the reports are given a value and so you know, the best offer you get you know, I just wrote 1 week at $700 in free gifts and discounts and so in terms of the price of those newsletters basically the industry will said the price for you because you are competing against other newsletters and so you know, you look around and you will say okay, well $29 seems to be what I am competing against. We can always have up or down from there, but that is kind of the industry standard.

With pricing for premium service products, the price is directly related to the profit potential of the advice that you are given. So if you are doing an income service where you basically promising them that you will double their yield and they will get 6% instead of 3%. You can charge $5,000 a year for that because unless they got a couple of million dollars that they are investing you are not generating that much money for them. So you know, your price is lower, but if you got option service or a warrant service that has (inaudible 19:40.7) you can demonstrate of 2%, 3%, 4000% per trade.

Now you are talking of service where you can charge a lot more money and the other variable course (inaudible 19:53.0) some of the service is we have to limit the number of people that can get in because of liquidity problems and so we you know, we will limit 500 or 1000 people, with that limit it is just (inaudible 20:08.9) to raise the price. So those are just some of the things that we look at in terms of offer.

Jeremy Reeves: Okay, yeah, got you. So how about for buyers, it is kind of another you know, another area that I see -- huge mistake that a lot of people make typically online you know, people they call themselves you know “online marketers” you know, they are all focus on getting the lead you know, getting the first customer then they kind of forget about the buyers which is obviously a giant mistake because that is where all the money is you know.

So what about buyers, you know, you write all these promotions to get people, I mean, you know, they are both first time buyers and then repeat buyer promotions, but do you have anything in place any specific examples that you can think of where it was a very structured approach like you had a package that was specifically meant just to get a first time buyer and get them in the door and then you had something that went on or hold sequence that went out to then get them you know, to kind of you know, opt in to the higher level packages.

Clayton Makepeace: You know, for some really good stuff on that you should talk to Todd Brown. I can give you his contact information.

Jeremy Reeves: Oh, yeah, (inaudible 21:18.4).

Clayton Makepeace: Okay, so Todd is really great on this but you talked about funnels and yeah we have -- if you buy a product from us, let us say you come in as a lead and your response is something on Americas 10 best (inaudible 21:36.6) right. It is a special report, so you read the report and you opted in, you come to a squeeze page so we have your email address, but you do not buy anything okay, so you come on to our (inaudible 21:50.4) well there is a 7-week funnel process that you are about to go through as a new lead on our funnel.

The first week and it is really interesting because first we assumed that you are (inaudible 22:09.0) because you like the product that you are looking at, but you just did not buy it. So we come back to you with a better offer and then we try another product along those same lines and then we will try something wildly different.

And something else wildly different. Each week is a week long campaign where we -- with a deadline because a deadline is the most powerful tool you got online to get people to act. So 1 week campaign aimed at moving you into one of these products. After 7 weeks you see that the totality of what we have available for you.

And there is a very good chance you will obey the purchase. If you come in having bought a product you will also get a funnel designed to introduce you to (inaudible 22:59.4) and introduce you to other products so we could basically cross sell you. You come in on a $29 newsletter, we can cross sell you to another $29 newsletter or we could push you all the way up to a $3,000 trading service, and it is amazing.

Some of these people come in for $29 and their next purchase is $3,000. Others come in at $29 and they will buy another $29 and another $29 for God knows how long so that is on the low end of the scale. It is a wide end of the funnel, right. The leads that come in and the first time buyers of low price product.

So funnels are the answer there and Todd is great because he automates and does all kinds of fancy stuff and he can be working with us on our stuffs too. The other thing is will you buy a high price service. It is a complete (inaudible 23:54.6) deal. If you just spent $3,000 with me I am not interested in selling you another product right now.

What I am interested to doing is making absolutely sure you do not exercise the money back guarantee because you know I sell 15 million dollars worth of products, half of those people cancel I am out 7 million dollars, 7.5 million. So you know, it is very important to me to get you to consume the service and to experience some winners and so the funnel there is not aimed at making a sale at all, but is aimed at getting you to participate to engage with the service, to consume it, and so very different kind of approach.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely. I call that a personal coach campaign because you are kind of taking them through like you know, just getting them to use the product, get a result from it that kind of thing. I love it.

Clayton Makepeace: Exactly.

Jeremy Reeves: Alright. So how about -- I have a feeling that we have similar thoughts on this, but what are your thoughts on writers block.

Clayton Makepeace: Yeah. I do not ever have it, I used to, but over the years I have developed an approach to writing so that before I ever have to sit down and do the hard work of actual writing I have something that approximates the rough draft, but I did not have to write you know.

So I go to the process of outlining you know, I will sit down -- let us say you give me a product, right. And the first thing I need to do is read the product profile. Identify the benefits and any unique selling proposition. You know, a lot of our products will have benefits that are common with other products that hopefully some of them will also have unique benefits that no other product has so I am looking for that and then I asked myself several questions.

First question is what must my prospect believe in order for this product to become absolute mandatory for him to purchase. What must he believe in order to make this a mandatory purchase for him.

The second question (inaudible 26:13.6) identify 2 or 3 things maybe 3 or 4 things.

My next question is you know, what must I say to him or show him to make him believe those things without a shadow of doubt and that is my researcher question, right. You know, what chart do I need to show. What quote do I need from the famous person. What do I need to show him to absolutely nail down you know, that this is a mandatory purchase.

Then I got this Ryan Deiss we were on the phone the other day with my mastermind group and Ryan is a real cool guy. I love the way he thinks and he said, he likes to sit down and basically draw a word picture of his prospect before he uses the product and after he uses the product you know. Basically this is -- and you can use it just like that in your copy you know.

In fact, I did it once with the (inaudible 27:18.9) product where I showed this guy reversing his own heart disease and canceling his appointment with the heart surgeon you know.

In picture 1, he is on the bed at (inaudible 27:30.9) and in picture 2, he is out dancing (inaudible 27:33.6) or something.

So you know, you have this before and after picture. How is this product going to change your prospects life. How is it going to bring value to his life. How is it going to change him as a person.

And then finally the final question I asked is what is he worried about, frustrated about, angry over, or excited about right. What are the things in his life that have him feeling these emotions. There are typically -- what I am looking for here are topical things, news, things in the news you know, because this is how I am going to get his attention.

You know that old national anthem (inaudible 28:22.9) you know (inaudible 28:24.8) the word sex and then underneath it just said, now that I have your attention and then you know, it told you what was in the magazine. That is a very effective technique for what we are doing, not quite that blatant.

I am doing a campaign right now for example that has to do with credit spreads, right. What could be more boring than credit spreads, right.

So how did I start the engagement process. Well, I looked around and I said what is that everyone thinking about right now. What is everyone have their (inaudible 29:00.7) right now, the elections, you know. If you are republican, you hate other republicans because they vote for Cruz and you vote for Trump, you know.

If you are a democrat, you hate republicans and you hate other democrats that are supporting Hillary if you (inaudible 29:17.5) support.

So you know, everybody is up in arms over the elections and so that is all anyone is thinking about, it is all in the news.

So instead of starting my campaign talking about credit spreads, I started out by doing a survey and asking people to tell me who is going to win the election you know, who is going to win this nomination, who is going to win that nomination.

And then over time, and I said I will give you my prediction (inaudible 29:44.7) in the meantime I want (inaudible 29:46.7) from you. Like that is the conversation started that way but then later when my analyst said you know what he was predicting. His prediction was you know what, it does not matter because this thing which I named the golden red show, is credit spread is already determined that we are about to go through 4 years of hell in this country no matter who is president and so now is my transition into the product.

You know, that is how you use this topic (inaudible 30:23.7) to get their attention. Now that was a stretch usually you do not have to go through that much of a stretch but that is an example of a stretch.

So that is it, and I take those things and I create a strategy document and I create an outline for what I am going to write then I say, what is the (inaudible 30:44.3) do we need here in order to make this point and that because my research request.

And now I sit down ay my computer and I have got this completed outline with all of the facts and figures in it and it is time to start writing.

Jeremy Reeves: And you are already 80% done?

Clayton Makepeace: 80% done. You are right, you know. So now you just have to turn it into a conversation, simple, you know.

Jeremy Reeves: Nice, I love it, yeah. I actually -- I like how you kind of laid it out like what do they have to believe you know and then how do you, you know, what do you have to say to have them believe that. I love that. I am going to start using that actually. That is good.

Alright, so moving into a little bit more of the business side of all this. I have a couple of things in here for people who are on the service side of thing, but then also you know, also clients who are hiring people like us you know, so what do you see -- I am trying to figure how to say this, when you are -- actually you know what, let us start with this one. When you are working with clients and they complained about people they are hiring you know, contract or service providers, copywriters, marketers, things like that, what are some of the things that they, that kind of you know, piss them you know, that pisses them off a little bit about people they are hiring you know, taking away the results and all that kind of stuff because that is you know, you kind of get the result or you do not. But you know, in terms of like the working relationship you know, what are some of the things that you see clients not particularly enjoying about working with copywriters. Does anything come into mind.

Clayton Makepeace: Yeah. A lot of things. I am a client you know, I have gone to a point where although I write copy every day, I also hire other writers every day and I have got a staff 3 in-house writers. We also hire freelancers.

So I see it all the time. I think the first you know, the first thing is, this is not my first -- this is my first rodeo. So do not try blowing smoke at my ass you know. It is physically impossible if 3 grandmothers all die while you are in this process you know, or you know, 6 grandfathers to get hospitalized still you cannot make your deadlines. If you are struggling, if you need help ask for it. If you do not understand your assignment, if you have questions ask them you know. It is a sign of intelligence you know. It is a sign that you thought this through, you thought about it and you have some valid questions.

I am working with Eric Patel right now. Eric is a great writer. One of the top guys in health industry and every once in a while, he will work with me on a financial project. Eric is just, he is great that way you know, he is very intuitive, but there is no question he would not ask.

The other thing is you know, communicate, if you are going to blow a deadline, that is fine. You know, Gary (inaudible 33:54.9) once said to me you know, I hired him to do a project, but I asked him when I am going to expect the first draft and he says, Clayton, my man, he goes the heartbreak of a blown deadline, has quickly forgotten in the warm blow of the new control.

That is so true you know, but just do not be working on somebody else’s project and you know, we are doing -- not working on my project and putting me off. At some point, I am going to give you a kill if he did not tell you (inaudible 34:30.1) call me again.

Another mistake that probably the most -- 2 mistakes real quick and then we can move on. The first mistake in copy that I see all the time is just (inaudible 34:46.4) or a disconnect between the product or the problem that you are talking about and the solution that you are offering you know, this happens a lot in the financial field. It would happen a lot less in the health area, but in the financial field it happens a lot (inaudible 35:05.8) with some like the elections that their backend is all about something else and there is no connection whatsoever. There is no transition. There is no way that these 2 have halves of this puzzle fit together.

The other one is copywriters who will just simply make grand sweeping statements and expects the prospect to believe them you know, (inaudible 35:37.7) your prospect is not an idiot, she is your wife you know, and so you treat your prospect with respect. If you are going to make a statement as hard to believe, back it up. If you are going to make any kind of a statement that is key to them making the purchase, back it up you know, and respect their intelligence. Do not -- you know, read it critically.

One of the hardest things for copywriter to do, you are in love with your copy, you just spent a month on it (inaudible 36:11.5) The hardest thing for you to do is to read it as a critique would, as a scenic you know, read it and say, oh, bullshit every other line you know, and ask yourself how can I make this absolutely believable.

Jeremy Reeves: I actually -- sorry I cut you off. Really quick, I was listening to an interview, I think it was David Doidge, I might have that (inaudible 36:35.6).

Clayton Makepeace: We are having dinner with David tonight.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, so you could ask him if he said it. It was a couple of weeks ago, I think I forgot, I listened to all kinds of stuff. I think it was him though and he was talking about the amount of benefits to put in a package and he said, he was saying that sometimes you can have too many benefits because it dilutes the big promise that you are making you know, and I love that and he said a lot of people the mistake they make is saying you are going to get you know, A, B, C, D, E, F, G you know, all the way down to Z and then they do not back up each individual one with you know, with proof and he said that actually because you know, even like little -- it kinds of adds up if they do not believe a tiny a little bit it is like okay you know, I will keep going, but then if you say 10 things and you are not backing up 10 things then they are like alright, this guy is bullshit you know.

Clayton Makepeace: Absolutely. Think of the situation where you have the one main benefit that you really focus on your entire package and then in one section of a copy you say, oh by the way you know, users have also recorded the following: Bullet, bullet, bullet, bullet, right. But they are pushed way down. You do not have to believe those things in order to buy, right.

The whole reason to buy the product is that one major reason you have upfront.

Jeremy Reeves: I love it. So working with clients, I know you have always been huge on doing you know, (inaudible 38:03.7) deals, royalties, things like that you know. How do you go about structuring it with the client. I know in most of the area that you have worked with that is kind of you know, (inaudible 38:15.1) and all that. That is kind of like what they do you know, so they are used to that, but if you are going after somebody who they were not in that world like it was a new thing to them you know, how do you go about approaching them with (inaudible 38:28.8) hey, I am going to write this for you for X dollars, it will take you know whatever 8 weeks or whatever it is you know, how would you kind of position the pitch to get a royalty from it or some kind of (inaudible 38:40.3) deal you know, something beyond the one-time fee structure.

Clayton Makepeace: You know, Jay Abraham did this with the IcyHot. It is actually a little well -- it depends on the kind of (inaudible 38:55.9) you are talking about. If you go to a work for Agora they already have a royalty program all set up. They know what their use (inaudible 39:02.6) you might be able to negotiate up a little bit if you have a super hot hand, and they really want you, but pretty much, they have a standard royalty rate you are going to pay.

When you go to somebody that is not used to paying royalty or does not used to hire any copywriters, then you can do what a friend of mine did once. He just simply said, look, I am going to give you two choices in terms of how to pay for this, you could cut me a check right now for $25,000 and I write this or you can cut me a check for $5,000 now and give me 10% of revenues, if it works, right.

So you know, most of these people are not that bright frankly and they are going to say, I am sorry but it is true, they just instinctively in a knee-jerk manner will go to the lower cost today. They will go to the $5,000 you know, but I had a project once where I had 10% revenues and for 30 days work I got paid 2 million dollars.

So you know, I mean it is a -- and Jay Abraham made like 20 million on that IcyHot deal, you know. So you know, I like that idea of giving him a choice.

One time I even went so far if you you know, every once in a while maybe 5 or 6 times in a lifetime if you are lucky, you will come across this guy with a kick butt product who does not have the first clue about marketing and he knows he has got a great product and he just cannot figure out why nobody is buying it, and you can go to him and -- you only do this if you are absolutely sure, but you can go to him and say, man I tell you the truth, I would pay you to (inaudible 41:08.2) and write this, but here is what I am going to do, I am going to write a promotion and I am not going to charge you a penny, but I want 10% or ask for 20% you know of the revenues and negotiate down from there.

So you know, either give him a choice or let him pick the one that is going to end up making you the most money because it is less money out of pocket for him upfront or I mean use that -- I ended up with a 5 year client out of research publications by making that offer to Johnny Johnson back in the 70s. I said, you know, your (inaudible 41:45.2) I can really kill it, you know, and I tell you what, I am going to write a promotion for you, if you promise to mail it, test it, I will write a promotion for you and if it works, you pay me my normal upfront fee and my royalty, if it does not work, you pay me nothing and it is like a no brainer.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely. I take it you know, if I was hiring someone and they said it to me. I think that is you know, I think you -- kind of just have to look at that as you know, what would I you know, what would be a no brainer it is almost like putting together an offer just for a product but you are doing it a service you know.

Clayton Makepeace: Exactly, and think if you are talking to somebody, you put yourself in a client’s shoes. You talk to somebody and they show that kind of confidence you are going to want to hire him.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely. Alright, so we are kind of coming up on time here. So let us do two really quick questions. This first one might take a minute or two and then the second one is a really quick one.

So the first one is, if you look back over your career you know, it is now spanning you know, whatever it was 46 years or whatever it was, if someone was you know, kind of in the beginning stage of that or you know whatever the stage of that and you were looking back over your career and there were like 2 or 3 big things that you know, held you back that you can help somebody to kind of not hit those road blocks you know, what would they be and let me know that -- that question came out a little bit weird, let me know if that was clear.

Clayton Makepeace: Yeah, I think you are asking what would I ask if I was you know, --

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, exactly.

Clayton Makepeace: Well, the cool thing is you know, today, there is 9 million people out there well I would not overstate it, but today you have access (inaudible 43:37.8) good copy coaches, right. So back when I was getting started (inaudible 43:43.4) was my copy coach. I was brand new, he is a little older than me. He was already established and so I heard he was a good writer and I figured out who he was writing for and I subscribed to their publications and so I started getting all his great direct mail pieces and I would run you know, run at the mail box grab at one end and get my scissors out, I start cutting them out. I had a book for headlines. I had you know, I outlined a piece so -- it was amazing how consistent his outlines were.

And I would look at the subheads, I look at every part of the author. I would memorize it. I never would steal anything but you are internalizing all of the stuff so the next time you write something is there. You get what he is doing right without doing anything verbatim.

So that was how we had to (inaudible 44:37.5) and then my buddy, Gary Halbert, came along, Dan Kennedy came along, AWAI came along and Gary Bencivenga with his Bencivenga bullets. All of these guys are there to help and so you know, you got to take advantage of this. This is like it is a gift from (inaudible 45:03.0) from heaven you know, that you got these writers who have done great things in their careers and they are willing to help you.

The questions that I would have had would have been pretty much the ones that you have asked me today. The ones about how do you connect with your market. How do you organize your promotions. How do you avoid writers (inaudible 45:29.4). How do you structure an offer you know, all of those things, and it is amazing when Mike Palmer came to visit a couple of weeks ago and we have drinks and Mike is a guy that wrote End of America for Stansberry. He sold 750,000 subscriptions after that one video sales letter and you know, just to talk to my -- and we were just sharing, well, how do you do this, how do you do that and our approaches were so different, but I learned from him and I think he may have learned a little bit you know, from me. In fact, one time, Mike called me up and said, can I just come to your office and sit in front of your desk for 2 days. I just want to -- I do not want to talk, I just want to watch you work and I said sure you know. So you know, he did that and like I said earlier, we have a dinner with David Doidge tonight, your friend (inaudible 46:31.9) to get his career started.

All of these people have slightly different approaches to how they do things (inaudible 46:39.6) will sit down and write 350 fascinations before he starts writing a copy you know, and you can learn from each of them. So you know, I guess what that boils down to his networking you know. Spent time with other writers. Go to the American Writers and Artists boot camp every year in October. You will meet 500 or 600 other writers there. Join a mastermind. I have got a mastermind group. We had a couple of group members and we all share secret Facebook page plus we have webinars every month.

So you are constantly (inaudible 47:16.0) each craft plus you can show your copy to other people, other copywriters give (inaudible 47:24.5) so you know, networking is very, very important. It is a gift that we have today and you take advantage of it.

Jeremy Reeves: Definitely. Fully agree. Absolutely. Alright, so the final question is and you can throw out as many as you want, one or twenty or you know, whatever kind of pops in your head, but what are some of your favorite copywriting or marketing books, because a lot of times you know, some of the best copywriting books are not you know actually copywriting books you know, so besides any of your own stuff obviously you know, because I have gone through them and they are just ridiculous (inaudible 47:59.1) amazing there, but you know, any kind of you know, normal books. What pops in your head as kind of must reads for people either learning copywriting or just marketing you know selling in general.

Clayton Makepeace: Well, you know, I kind of find I guess because I am an old guy you know, when I read modern day books, current day books, and copywriting, they seemed to me (inaudible 48:23.0) regurgitation of what Claude Hopkins wrote, what John Caples wrote, what David Ogilvy wrote, what (inaudible 48:33.5) wrote, what Eugene Schwartz wrote. Those are the guys -- I was speaking last year at the boot camp for AWAI and American Writers and Artist and I asked a question, how many of you have read Tested Advertising Methods, and maybe 10% of the people in the room raised their hand. Now these are people who just spent thousands of dollars to go through a conference on copywriting and they had read the masters, you know, blows my freaking my mind. You can go to a library, get this book for free and read it and it is pure gold, right.

So again, Caples, Hopkins, Ogilvy, Eugene Schwartz anything by Mark Ford too, more modern day, Mark is absolute brilliant guy. Ready, Fire, Aim is awesome. He wrote copy logic with Mike Palmer, is also awesome.

So you know, that would be my advise you know, to go to those guys and read all of the masters first and then start building up what they already knew what 100 years ago, 50 years ago.

Jeremy Reeves: They figured it out a long time ago. I cannot even imagine what they could do if they were alive now with all the you know, split testing, so easy now and all that kind of stuff, it is just (inaudible 50:06.0) brilliant, but yeah, I totally agree. For anybody listening, if you know, they were a lot of things for (inaudible 50:12.3) so I will -- I will put all of my favorite books which are basically the same ones into the show notes so you can go and I will have the links to all of them and all that kind of stuff so you do not have to worry about remembering all the different names. You just click on the link.

Well, hey, Clayton, I really appreciate you coming on. It was really fun for me. I was really looking forward to this interview as a copywriter myself. You are kind of a you know, you are one of the legends you know, so it was an honor having you on.

Before we hop off you know, what can people do to find out more about you, get in touch you know, wherever you want to -- wherever you want to send them.

Clayton Makepeace: Well, you can contact American Writers and Artist Institute. You can go to their site, awaionline.com and poke around, looking for me. If you cannot find information on my mastermind group you can always send an email though to help you out.

Also, ask them about August, I am going to be doing an intensive, I think it is going to be in Denver and the point of this intensive is basically speed writing, I am known as one of the fastest copywriters out there and I am going to take for 3 days, I am going to take a group of 50 writers and we are going to -- I am going to teach them my method for creating really great sales pages in a week or less. So check that out too.

Jeremy Reeves: Sounds fun. I am going to check that out myself actually.

Sounds good. It was -- again, it was a pleasure having you off and we will talk to you soon.

Clayton Makepeace: Alright, take care. Thanks for having me.

Jeremy Reeves: Thanks.

May 18 2016

52mins

Play

Rank #5: How To Launch A New Product Into A Crowded Marketplace

Podcast cover
Read more

This week, we talk about how to launch a new product into a crowded marketplace. I'll walk you step-by-step through exactly what I'm about to do for a client in the beauty industry to help them maximize their revenue with minimal risk. Enjoy!

  Resources Mentioned

Amazon

Transcript

Jeremy Reeves: Hey what is going on guys and girls. Jeremy Reeves here with another episode of The Sales Funnel Mastery.

And today is actually labor day that I am recording this. I figure you know, we did not really have anything going on. Actually, well, in the morning at least today. One of my buddies coming over later on and we are going to go out and do some stuff, but we did all of our stuff over the weekend with the kids. I got pulled over which was awesome, always a fun experience and it was by (inaudible 0:44.8) and I was going 20 over in a work zone. So that is always a fun time. And the best part is, it was on my way to a kid’s birthday party that is 2 hours away. So it was an awesome day.

No it was not that bad. My nephew had a birthday party and it was fun. They live about 2 hours away and you know, we had a really good time with the boys and with our family and all that kind of stuff.

Anyway, so, today, I am basically just doing a couple quick things then I am going to head off. I am actually going to take some time today in the afternoon. I am probably going to work until about noon or so. Go for a nice long run and then come back and work on my car a little bit. I am actually getting back into detailing cars.

So I used to be into detailing cars when I was probably about 16 to 18 maybe like in that range you know. As a young kid, you know, you get excited working about cars and you have your own car and all that kind of stuff.

So I used to be really into detailing cars and I am getting back into it now.

So yeah, anyway, so what I want to talk to you about today really quick. I am going to make this kind of short, is basically my thought process. I thought it would help for you to kind of understand like me given marketing challenge and then how I came up with solving it okay.

And my thought process goes into the strategy that me and this client are going to do, right.

So essentially, they came to me and they had a product that it is not really selling. Well, it is a physical product. I am not going to give away too much about it just because this is going to be -- it is going to be confidential once we officially you know, move forward with the project. They are not officially client yet, but well they soon.

So I am not going to give away too much about it, but I will kind of just give you the overall you know, kind of the high level concepts of everything.

So, essentially, it is a physical product. It is a beauty product that -- I am trying to think of how to say it. So, it is basically a beauty product that -- it is a beauty product, right. So, it is not a cream. It is like a device essentially that does a similar thing to a lot of salons, but does it in a much cheaper way and you only pay for it once and that kind of thing.

So it is kind of a cool story behind it. It has got a good level of price justification in it because you know, you can use it once or twice and it kind of pays for what you would pay in a salon and you get similar results. There is a lot of proof behind it and that kind of thing.

And I actually just got an email back at some -- it has some stuff to do with -- it is a therapy developed by NASA which is awesome. So you probably already know, you know, what the big hook is going to be.

So they came to me and they were like, hey you know, this -- you know, it is a great product, but it is not really selling that well you know, do you want to you know, basically can you help us you know, we have tried a couple of things, they are not really working that well and you know, can you help us.

And so essentially what I came up with right, was a couple of things, alright.

So when it comes to selling a physical product like this and it is in the -- it is like a $250, so it is not -- it is not like the high-end range. It is not the low-end range just kind of like in the medium range where you, you know, you have to think about the purchase, but you do not really have to you know, maul it over for like a month, I mean it is $250.

So what I said to them was, I said, alright, you know, you are not getting great results now. Number one is because the website -- the website copy is really bad.

So I said, number 1, we have to redo that because we need really good copy, right.

Number 2. This product lands itself well to demonstration, okay.

And when a product lands itself well to demonstration, then it lands itself well to an infomercial style video, okay.

And I actually got to write them back. They thought I meant like a 2 minute, like an actual infomercial 2 minute you know, 2 minute spot that kind of thing which we may or may will not do while I am jacking my (inaudible 4:57.5) here today. In the future, right, but for now, I do not think that is you know, quite the place to go. I was thinking more of like a 15 to 20 minute kind of spot, but infomercial style, right.

And then you can kind of use that video in a whole bunch of different settings, right.

But the big thing is, you know, 2 of things that are missing is proof okay and the concept.

So the concept is a little bit new if you look -- if you think about in terms of the buyer’s journey or market awareness more specifically, the market is not really aware right, of this therapy or the product that kind of thing.

So we have to start with education, okay. And that is what my you know, a lot of what I am going to be writing is going to based on okay, because the market is not aware of the product or why that therapy work so well, right.

As compared to something like if this was like a beauty cream right, most people know you know, what a beauty cream does right, it gets rid of your lines and all that kind of stuff.

So you can go more into like the ingredients. You can go more into the emotional benefits of it -- it kind of go right to that.

This one is a bit of a new concept, so you have to start with more education, okay. You have to start a little bit slower. The sales process is just a little bit slower because you have to go into more of how it works right, rather than why it works and why it is better right.

You have to first set the stage for how it would actually works. How it would actually gets you results, okay.

So we are not going to talk about the science behind it and that kind of thing and that is for the NASA story comes in which is awesome. I am actually excited to write about that. It is kind of funny, I actually get kind of like you know, like giddy, like a little kid when I find out that there is really good stories behind things because as you know, stories sell very well. So -- I always love putting stories together. I will go out and take a cigar and a glass of Bourbon or whatever and take my white board outside of my office. Outside of my office there is -- we have a big patio and then we have our yard, the fence, and there is woods behind it. So it is like a really beautiful view of all the trees and you know, all kind of stuff and I love it. This time the year is just -- I love it and fall.

So anyway, so I will go out and actually story board, right. The whole like how the story, like you know, what the set up and story is going to be. How are we going to you know, kind of take them through like an emotional journey and how the story fits into -- how it is going to benefit them as a consumer and you know, all that kind of stuff, right.

So stories are going to be huge part of this, okay.

Now the second part of this is so you know, the first part is conversion right. So we have to redo the website copy. We will probably come out with some kind of PDF or you know, some kind of thing education-based PDF. Think of this as kind of like a consumer’s awareness guide or consumer buying guide that type of thing right and we will talk about -- that way we can talk about the science, to get them really excited and that way in the sales copy, we can get more into the emotional benefits and to hook them in with stories and show you know, demonstrate the product so they can actually see it and you know, get into all that type of stuff right.

So we are kind of doing like a 2 stage type of selling approach here.

Then when it comes to actual marketing sales right, they made a mistake of -- so they have an investor behind this product and the investor actually has some experience in infomercials which was good to hear. I just found that out. And you know, as an investor, they are going to want like when they are giving someone money, they want the results fast, right.

So the mistake that I think they made is they went with an SEO firm, okay. That is a very, very long term strategy, right. We are talking several months, years like it is a very long term strategy. So I think that was kind of you know, mistake number 1 that they made. So I am going to you know, I will kind of talk to them about that.

So when I am looking at this, when I know what the product is, when I know where -- what stage of the buying process most of this marketers is going to be in and what stage of market awareness that the market is in, right, which is on the lower end of the scale. There is a scale of 1 to 5 (inaudible 9:13.5) now I think -- I feel like I did a podcast on that or might have done a blog post on it if you want to check through the blog.

So there are 5 stages. They are probably about a 2 I would say. Most products are either 3 or 4. They are probably about 2 -- maybe even 1, as I get into it more, I will figure that out, but anyway.

So what we are looking for -- when I (inaudible 9:36.9) when I was thinking about this, I said, alright, what do we have to do here to get -- you know, we need momentum, right. That is the big thing here. We need momentum. We need proof. We need you know -- we need some kind of social elements behind this. We need some you know, big influencers who will be taking about this. We need some buzz about this, that kind of thing.

So I said, okay. Number 1, it is a physical product, let us go to Amazon right. So we will put together -- we did not do this yet. I actually just sent them the proposal the other day and you know, so we are probably going to move forward. We just have to figure out some of the finer details.

So this is what we are going to be doing.

Number 1 is Amazon. Lands itself perfectly to Amazon. It is going to give us you know, a couple of reasons for Amazon you know. Number 1, their paid traffic is awesome, right, because you are targeting buyers anybody going on Amazon you are not going there to like research information, you are going there to buy something.

So we will target you know, specific keywords send them there and we will see how -- essentially, what we are looking for is number 1, we want to do product validation, right, and on my end I want product validation because this is going to be (inaudible 10:44.0) share you know, type of situation.

So I want to get -- I want to put together a campaign that we know right off the bat, how people like the product itself because if people do not like the product you know, then I am going to go back and say okay, you know, look it is just -- it is going to be too hard you know, too much of an uphill battle from here and for me you know, and then you know, kind of just you know, and get out of the situation you know, and then also for them as well you know.

You need product validation first, okay.

So if you are looking something, you have a physical product or even a service whatever it is, you need product validation first, okay. You need people that are excited to get -- to move forward with it, right. So we need that first. So Amazon is a really good way to do that, okay.

So this in paid ads, put together page you know, all that kind of stuff.

Second thing that does -- so number 1 is going to validate the product because of the conversion rates are really, really bad on that then we have to figure out okay is it the product, is it the copy are we not talking enough to you know, are we not -- do we not know enough about the market. Is this not you know, good timing for the market you know, what is going on that the conversion rates are bad, okay. So that is going to be step number 1.

Step number -- and then the second part of Amazon is that -- as you sell it, even if you do not make a ton of money on it, you get feedback right. You find out why people love the product. You find out why they do not like the product. You find out why they are going to buy. Why they are not buying.

So you get a ton of feedback from Amazon that you can then use as you scale the project because we are doing a couple kind of free strategies or low cost strategies first before we get into paid traffic. On Amazon, we are doing paid traffic, but it would be on minimal scale you know, maybe $100 a day or something like that. So we are going to do that, right, Amazon right.

And then we also not only are we getting product validation. Not only are we getting feedback, we are also getting proof because we are going to get reviews. We are going to get people giving us testimonials that we can then use in you know, in other market, okay.

Then, step number 2 and basically this is kind of where we at now or where you know, basically what we got enough to at this point is influence or outreach, okay.

So I said, alright, we want fast results, that is going to be Amazon, okay. That is going to get some momentum going, right.

So Amazon boom, right.

As Amazon is going, as we are kind of crunching those numbers figuring all that stuff out, we are going to reach out to influencers, okay.

So we are going to look at people like you know, big bloggers and podcasters and you know, people what they called vloggers. I hate that word, but you know, video bloggers you know, and all that kind of stuff and you know, even you know, models on Instagram and you know reaching out to people, giving them free samples in exchange for a review or a testimonial or their feedback or whatever that is. Trying to get them to push that out to their audience, right, only if they love it, obviously. You know, obviously, they are not going to give it to their audience if they do not like it.

So that is going to be kind of phase number 2 and then -- so that is going to not only are we going to get more feedback, it is kind of like a repeating loop here. We are going to get more (inaudible 13:57.2). We are going to get more sales. We are going to get more reviews and testimonials. What that also does is it generates buzz.

So if we are getting these influencers to generate some buzz in the marketplace, we can then have more proof. You can see how the stuff stacks on top of each other (inaudible 14:13.6) proof stacking. That is a good idea. I might have to come up with that concept. I might have to dig into that a little more.

So we are going to do some proof stacking. Used that the first time ever. They are -- I just coined the term for you.

We are going to use proof stacking and you know, we will use that in the market, right. So we can then say that like, hey you know, this big blogger in the industry loves it and this guy does and then we can use that to leverage things like PR. We can use that to leverage things like getting on webinars right because it is going to be harder to do a joint venture with somebody on the webinar than it is to just say, hey, you know, check this out if you love it, tell your audience about it, alright.

So if we get people that are saying they loved it, then we go and you know, we get one of these A players and then we reach out to other A players and say, hey, you know, do you want to do a webinar about it you know, this person, your buddy, or your competitor or whatever loves it you know, I love to send you and if you love it you know, we will do a quick webinar. I will walk you through. I will give you percentage of the commission whatever, right.

Notice by the way, that there is barely any risk here you know, (inaudible 15:20.6) risk going into any of this.

So it is going to also make the investor happy. When I came up with the strategy, I have that investor in mind because that is -- he is going to have a huge influence on the decisions that are made, right, because he is the one with the money. He is the one you know, putting his funds into this.

So I kind of did all this wraparound that investor, right.

So you also have to figure out when you are making strategies like this, you also have to take into consideration all of the factors right because if I said, oh, let us do you know, Facebook ads, we are going to spend thousand dollars a day, the investor would say, ahh.. nope.

That is not going to happen because I already sank a lot of money into this and we are not going to do that, alright. So make sure you are considering all factors, okay.

So at this point, we have Amazon and we will also redo the website probably at the same -- just kind of so it is there -- kind of one of those things like we are not going to send traffic rate to the website probably, but it is kind of just there like it kind of just needs to be there. It is one of those things you know, what I mean, that it is just like kind of you know, kind of just needs to be there.

Then we are doing influence outreach. We are doing webinars on people and then the next 2 things that I said was PR right. So as we do this influence outreach, as we do webinars, as we do Amazon we are building up all this proof and credibility, well then guess what, don’t you think that this has a great story for PR. Don’t you think that we can go to some local stations and you know, if we tell them that this NASA technology is getting amazing results and it is a breakthrough thing and it helps you, you know, get amazing results in a fraction of a cost of going to salon and blah, blah, blah. Don’t you think the media would eat that up you know, they would love that. So I think PR is a huge strategy here.

The next thing is customer virality right. And again, all of these are very, very, very either low cost or no cost strategies, right. Again, you know, I am thinking of that, that investor. I am thinking of you know, the cash flow that is available. I am thinking about these other factors. That is why -- it is how I came up with the strategy, right.

So the last thing is customer virality right. So basically, really great products spread. So if you have a physical product one of the biggest ways to grow that product is by like organic virality right. Getting it to spread organically by getting people to talk about it, right. So how do you speed up that process because it is hard in the beginning right.

It is like a snowball you know, snowball is tiny in the beginning as you know, the farther goes down the hill, the easier it is to keep rolling and keep gathering momentum, but somebody is going to push that snowball first, right.

So you know, we are going to come up with some ways -- I have not mapped all this out yet, but we are going to come up with some ways to basically, essentially like you know, give free things if they tell their friends right.

So after they buy rather than trying to upsell them in you know, all these kind of stuff, we are really just going to focus on the core message like we have to rather than putting together this big huge elaborate funnel and having all these various products, we are going to put 100% focus into the product and into the market okay. So exactly who is that market. Exactly who we going after. Exactly what benefits they want to hear. Exactly what emotions do we have to pull at to get them to buy. Exactly what you know, what pain points do we have to hit. Exactly what objections do we have to overcome.

So we are nailing that first, okay, and then we are going to start once we really, really, really like crush all that, then we will move on to things like you know, adding in creams and adding in you know, I do not know extra strength or you know, whatever it is that we come up with for you know, upselling and cross selling. We have to nail it first with the product itself, okay. We have to prove that it is a valid product in the marketplace first, alright.

So one of the things that we are going to do is customer virality and you know, just things like essentially you know, we can do contest, we can you know, give them free things if they tell their friends. Basically just to start getting that ball rolling and getting the conversation starting around this, okay.

And that is pretty much it.

So I do not know, how long that was, maybe a little bit longer, it was about 20 minutes.

So anyway, that is -- I thought it would be kind of cool to take you into my mindset you know, as I am coming up with ideas and strategies for my clients you know, that is kind of what I do you know what I mean. That is how I come up with things and you know, when I have clients that say, hey, you know, what do we do that is essentially how my brain works to come up with the strategies for them you know, it is always looking at all the factors is looking at the lowest cost you know, the lowest risk ways to you know, to get things out there. Sometimes it is not the lowest cost by the way. Lowest risk does not mean lowest cost right. If someone has a huge like a lot of cash flow, their time might be a bigger risk factor than the money, right. So you have to take that into consideration. You know, all the various factors and that is what I came up with right.

So yeah, I hope you enjoy it. I hope you have I know, by the time you listen to this it will be after labor day, but I hope you already had a great labor day. I am going to be like I said, I am going to be working in the morning and then I am going to spend the afternoon with you know, with the boys and my one buddy who is -- he is from Boston. He only comes in once or twice a year. So I spend a little bit of extra time with him. I am going to you know, wash and wax the car. So it will be fun. Put some good music on. Probably throw up some marketing podcast on or something like that as I am doing it.

Yeah, and it should be a good day, but anyway, I hope you enjoy this episode. As always, if you enjoy this episode which I hope you did. If you are still listening, I am assuming you did. So if you are still listening make sure that you are telling your friends about it. Make sure that you give us a review on iTunes, that is the biggest compliment you could possibly give me. I get people all the time that when I talk to them, they are like, this is the best podcast I have listened to. You give the most actionable advice and you know, it is like the best strategy and blah, blah, blah.

So yeah, you know, if you are thinking that in your head now, make sure that you give us a review, right. It would be absolutely hugely appreciated and we are giving you free things too you know, like I said, the conversion cheat sheet you know, there is 101 you know Conversion tips in there that you can use for you know, for your website you know, whatever you are doing, there is like basically, your whole sales funnel go through.

So we will send you that. Just send us an email after you leave a review and as always, if you want to reach out and work with us you know, whether doing a funnel day to come up with a strategy like I just went through or to actually helping us or working with us to help you build out your own sales funnel whatever that is then reach out support@jeremyreeves.com alright.

That it is for the day. I hope you have a good one and I will talk to you soon.

Sep 07 2016

22mins

Play

Rank #6: How To Crush It With High Ticket Products & Services

Podcast cover
Read more

Today we discuss why EVERYONE needs high ticket products & services in their sales funnel, and THE most effective way to sell them for the highest ROI possible. Plus TWO big announcements!

  Resources Mentioned

support@jeremyreeves.com

Transcript:

Jeremy Reeves: Hey, what is going on everybody. I just recorded a new episode and I completely forgot to tell you that my wife, Katie, is pregnant with number 3.

So we have Connor, he is 5. We have Logan, he is 3 and now we are going to have a new born coming in February. So she is whatever, 13 weeks now, so we are very, very excited. We actually just went last week I think it was for her first you know, high-risk OB appointment you know. She is high-risk because she has epilepsy and then our oldest son, Connor, has autism so they basically they monitor her like crazy. We actually go I think it is like once a month now and then it is after when she hits past like 20 weeks we are going to -- we go for like every week and then after 30 weeks, it is like every week.

So we are going to have a lot of doctor appointments coming up.

But I just wanted to tell everybody that you know, that you know, she is pregnant with number 3. We were trying basically you know, all last year I think, whatever the time, this year, not last year. I am very, very proud of the fact that all 3 of our kids were planned and we you know, we are in the process of trying for all 3 of them you know what I mean, I love that fact, you know, we have always wanted kids and we kind of you know, made a plan for them and actually stuck to the plan which is kind of awesome you know, I think it is kind of rare because life gets in the way and either you do not have as many as you wanted or you accidentally have more than you wanted you know, which is, I think is more the case but you know, I am very happy and excited about the fact that you know, we not only you know, wanted 3 and kind of planned it out, but we are actually like in the process of trying when she get pregnant with all 3. So it is kind of awesome, but anyway, enjoy this episode. I have actually another big announcement on this episode so enjoy it.

Hey what is going on everybody, Jeremy Reeves here with another episode of the sales funnel mastery podcast and I was just thinking about something, okay.

So I have been talking with a lot of prospects and clients lately and we just got some really, really good result with one of our clients who basically -- he was selling a product essentially between $2,000 and $3,000, okay. There are 2 different choices, the one was, I think it was like $1997 and the other one is $2094 something like that.

So he, you know, he was thinking of the best way to sell it that kind of thing and I said, well, I think we should do you know, we should set up an automated webinar to sell it, right.

So in his case it was actually hi-breed because he you know, it is in the trading industry so you know, people want to see live charts, right, rather than you know, if you are looking at prices of stock and it is like from 3 years ago you know, obviously it is going to be very irrelevant.

So to make it relevant you know, we decided that a hi-breed approach is the best thing where we, you know, we have you know, 80% of the webinar automated and then he kind of just pops in to show a couple of charts and you know, and that is it.

So we launched and here you have one you know, that he was already doing and you know, and all that.

So I redid you know, his webinar and that is going to bring me to my next point but so we redid it right, and what happened was the first time, now this is with no -- this is you know right out of the gate to -- I think it was a mix of paid you know kind of warm traffic.

The first time right out of the gate he sells -- It was somehow, I still to get the final numbers, but it was roughly $30,000 from 1 webinar right, it took him -- he was on there for like whatever half hour or something like that.

$30,000 okay and that was from by the way, it was not like you know, thousand (inaudible 4:37.9) registered, it was something like 400 people who have registered I think something along those lines and 150 showed up, so whatever it is I am going to do the math here and get up my trustee old calculator here so $30,000 divided by $150 is $200 per person who attended the you know, the webinar and it would also be $75 per you know per registrant right.

So that means he could he spend 30 -- basically, if you wanted to just get a double ROI you know, 100% ROI. You could basically spend about $37 per lead to get a 2 times ROI, right.

So now the average person is getting leads for roughly you know, let us just say $2 to $3 something like that, it is going to depend on the industry, but if he is making $75 per registrant right, that means that he can -- if you want to get a 10 times ROI, say he was getting $250 a lead right, let us say $250 a lead right, probably would not get that right off the bat because of the (inaudible 5:59.0) with you know, (inaudible 6:00.3) but if he was getting $250 a lead which you know, is reasonable once you kind of get down to it.

That would give him a 30 times ROI, okay. So even if he did a third of what he actually did and made only $10,000 that means he would still be getting a 10 times ROI on you know, his paid traffic right.

And you know, there are 2 kind of things that I want to talk about it here.

Number 1 is that if you are selling anything high ticket, you have to be selling on webinars. Webinars are so bad ass that it is ridiculous and they have been, for years, and they will continue being because as -- unless somebody comes out with some kind of a crazy new technology which it still would be a webinar, just a different type of technology, maybe there is more interaction or something like that or you can have -- I know like people are coming out with like a 3D video where there is a like hologram or you kind of like in the room you know, so I could see people in the future doing kind of live presentations and you can actually walk around rooms and like all kinds of crazy stuff you know, we are not there now, but that is going to be coming in the future, but essentially, like if you are selling anything high ticket, you need to be doing some type of presentation, right. We are just going to call it presentation for now.

A high ticket, you know, is essentially like anything like maybe $500 plus right, you know, that is when you should really start selling webinars even lower than that you know, even if it is like I mean kind of a typical recommendation is anything $197 or less you could probably sell via text, anything above that I think is you know, webinar, something along those lines you know, it really depends and you could test out if you do not think it will work best, but let us just say anything you know, $200 to $500 plus is kind of considered high end, right.

Definitely need to be doing webinars to sell that because anything less is just -- you are not going to sell it because you know, you have to just you know, you have to get into the core emotions of your audience and the best way to do that is with webinar.

So if you are sitting there and you are struggling through sales and you know, anything like that, and you are selling anything that is you know, just say $200 plus or $500 plus, you are kind of in that range right.

Definitely consider putting together a webinar or presentation right.

This also includes if your lifetime value, so like if people are spending you know, just say $50 a month, but there are staying with you for a year okay, well that is a $600 value, right.

They are still going to need that kind of push you know in that direction with a webinar, okay.

So now that we have that covered, right. So if you are selling anything you know, just say $200 to $500 plus, that would be considered kind of webinar territory.

Now if you are local, if you are brick-and-mortar business, what you would probably do is you are essentially doing a webinar in person you know, an old school you know, traditional workshop right, were you are bringing people into your place of business and you are putting on a workshop and you sell them at the end, right. Same exact concept. People have been doing it forever, right.

And I apologized if you could hear my dog barking outside, I do not know what she is barking at.

But you know, again, if you can get people into your you know, into an actual live presentation, you can close up the 30% of the room doing it that way. I have clients doing that.

So for example, financial adviser or you are like a chiropractor or a dentist or something like that definitely consider you know, doing facebook ads, google ads, getting people to a workshop in your actual business or you can rent out a space if you want and selling them in person, right, the best way you can possibly sell it.

And then you know, of course, if you are online, then you do the online workshop, online webinar, you know, whatever kind of terminology you want to use, okay.

So that is kind of who should be doing this, right. So if you are in that crowd. If you are not in that crowd and usually do not care then you could you know, you do not even have to listen to the rest of this episode unless you wanted (inaudible 10:15.4) learn how to sell better which probably (inaudible 10:18.1).

If you are in that crowd okay, there is a really important point that I want to make here okay, and I am actually in the process right now of building a course. I have not launch a new information course in like 3 years and it just recently hit me how much of a skill we have for you know for launching webinars okay.

So we are coming out with a course showing you how to do that and I am actually, it is actually kind of cool because I am going to break it up. There is going to be like kind of a core philosophy in how everything works, but then I am also going to give you, you know, the templates and you know, training videos for each you know if you are selling a product or service because it is you know, you are going to sell it differently depending you know, the scripts can be different, depending on the product and service.

So I am actually creating a course right now probably going to launch it in September or so, I mean it is going to be bad ass you know, the whole you know, I am going to explain the exact you know, kind of how to set it up what you should use, but actually give you script for every single thing in it right. So it is going to be bad ass.

So shoot me if you want any more information on that just shoot me an email. If you have any kind of feedback on that, that you want to give because I am outlining the products right now. Actually, just recorded 1 piece of it this morning.

So anyway, essentially you know, one of the things you know, when you are talking about funnels, when you are talking about whatever kind of funnel it is, a lot of people get hung up on what is the structure look like you know, where do we put the opt ins, where do we put the upsells. Listen to me, that is not important right. That is -- you know, you need that right, but what is important is the messaging, okay.

So many people I cannot imagine -- I cannot even begin to explain how many people are like, Oh well, you know, they come to me and they are like, oh well, you know, it is saying I am pitching them -- doing a webinar for them, they are like, oh well, I mean I know how to set up a webinar.

So I am just going to do it myself, right and it is like, sure anybody can set up a webinar. I mean it is not that complicated, but do you know how to exactly sell you know, in the webinar I mean that is where the difference is that is like saying, oh well, I can write a sales page, but okay, can you do it properly right. Do you actually really know how to dig into the core emotions and you know, dig in to the you know, all the persuasion elements that you need to actually sell whatever it is that you are selling and for most people, the answer is no, right. Just because you can do it, does not mean that you can do it correctly, right. And that is the big, the big crocs here.

So you know, when you are doing a webinar whether you are doing it yourself or you hire somebody to do it, whatever the case is, you have to focus you know, you have to start with really nailing down your core message you know, what is the webinar going to be about, okay. What is sexy in your market.

You are also going to have to look at you know, how does that -- how does that topic translate in actually making sales because you can come up with any kind of sexy topic you know, but is that going to actually -- is that going to be congruent with what you are selling, okay. That is what a lot of people miss, alright.

This is the kind of the stuff that I am going to cover in this course that we are going out with.

The second thing is you know, once when you actually get (inaudible 13:51.4) because you have to have something that is sexy enough to get people to the webinar right and then you have to have a structure, a framework for that webinar that not only keeps them engage in the webinar, but sells them you know, again, it takes them kind of down to slippery slope just like a sales letter, okay, it is very, very similar.

You have to get people -- it is kind of like you know, the topic of the webinar is the same thing as the headline of sales letter. It is meant not to sell them but to get them into it right, to get them to start reading or in this case start listening.

And then the way that you know, the framework that you have for your webinar, the way that you -- the selling structure that you have throughout the whole webinar is meant to actually sell them right on whatever it is that you are selling whether it is product or service and that is what you really need to focus on is you know, what is the big idea behind this. What is the big concept that when you introduce this, this concept to you know, your audience they are going to think holy shit I need this product now. This thing is going to like completely transform my life you know, if you are selling like in this case you know, within the webinar, if you are selling anything high ticket you know, I am going to be targeting people right who are selling anything probably like I am going to probably say you know, $500 plus, right.

So if you know, if the course is like a $1,000 or something, it is like listen you only need to make 2 sales of this and it is already paid for itself. You will do that at the first webinar that you have on.

So you are -- you know, I am going to, kind of focus on doing it fast because I am giving you all the templates all the frameworks everything for this you know, we will even have services set it up for you, you know, all that kind of stuff. I will have those like in my upsells and all that kind of you know, good stuff right.

And it is like look, you know, you are going to pay for this literally within 1 week of getting it because we are going to show you how to set up this webinar within a week okay and I mean it is just going to be you know, you just launch it to your list right, whatever you have and you are probably going to make at least 2 sales from that right, it kind of bad if you did not, and even if you do not have the big list right you are probably going to make at least 1 or 2 sales and then you -- the whole goal there is going to be to sell it you know, via paid traffic. So you know, it would be like another 6 figure you know, automated revenue (inaudible 16:16.9) for you. At least 6 figures.

So if you are going to do that, you have to have all these pieces in place. You have to have the big main idea of getting this in place. You have to really narrow down exactly who you are selling it too and then you have to have the messaging correct.

You have to have all these pieces in place that keep people engaged throughout the webinar because if they do not get to the end where you are actually pitching right you are not going to make any sales right. If people are dropping off, you are not going to make any sales.

So you have to, not only get them in engaged, get them interested in the webinar, you have to get them onto the webinar and then you have to get them to stay throughout the webinar and then you have to get them to buy whatever you are selling at the end of the webinar, okay.

So you have to have -- and there is framework and structures and you know templates and systems you could put in place for all of these to improve each individual aspect of it right.

And that is what you need to do like if you want a successful webinar I mean we have I just realized how many of our clients our doing webinars I do not know why I never realized this before, but it kind of just hit me recently and you know, it is one of those things you know, we have kind of systems and templates that we used when we build this webinars for our clients right, and that is why we get such good results with them is because we have processes and frameworks that we used you know so that whenever we make these webinars we are not starting from scratch. We are starting from a proven formula that works regardless of what it is that you are selling you know, because I help my clients come up with you know the idea and all that kind of stuff but (inaudible 17:55.6) script it all the whole thing out for them. So we know what sells and what does not you know that kind of thing.

So there (inaudible 18:03.8) less guess work you know what I mean you know, that is like if you have a high ticket, anything high ticket whether it is product or service right. Even if you are selling service going to free consultation you should still do with the webinar in most cases right.

Why do you think I have so many webinars, it is because they worked you know, it is because when people watch them, a very high percent of people get in touch with me you know, that is why we have webinars, that is why I am always coming out with new webinars because they worked, right, and I am always testing new ideas.

The cool thing is, with webinar, you can record an introduction and you can record a close and then when you want a test to a new concept, all you have to do is change the body of the content right. Maybe like the first slide where you are talking about like what you are going to talk about on the webinar.

Oh my God, there are so many different amazing ways of these webinars, they are by far, one of my favorite things to build for clients because it is just you know, when I get somebody that is coming and they say, I want to build a webinar it is like I know the results are going to be there right.

As long as they have a good message, they have like, you come up with a no brainer offer you know, that kind of thing it is just bad ass how good the results are you know.

So the main point here is if you are trying to sell something high ticket, first of all, if you do not have anything high ticket come out with something high ticket, right, $500 plus. And again, you can do this for like $200 plus right, in a lot of cases, it will work really well right, but let us just say high ticket is like $500 plus for now just for kind of easy you know, simplicity here.

When you are doing this you know, the choice is kind of okay do I put it together myself or do I get a professionally done right, and if you are putting it together yourself you know, you have to follow kind of what I just talked about you know, a lot of people are like, oh well, you know, we are going to do this, we are going to do a prewebinar sequence, we are going to do a postwebinar sequence and you know, we are going to send them reminders and blah, blah, blah, blah, and it is like, yeah, but if you do not do that the right way, it is not going to do anything okay.

I can sell more on a webinar with no prewebinar sequences, no postwebinar sequences, they just show up to the webinar you know, whoever (inaudible 20:31.6) just kind of it drops off and I guarantee you, I can outsell most people who have all these fancy stuff in place with you know, all the you know, prewebinar you know, kind of (inaudible 20:42.7) sequence to get them excited for the webinar and then all the various behavioral segments that you can do after the webinar based on the behaviors that they take and all that kind of fancy stuff and listen that should be there in place, but if you have that in place, but you do not have the core foundation in place, you are still not going to do good right.

You know, as compared to, if you really nail down the core foundation of what it takes to sell high ticket product right because it is different than selling a low end product right.

If you really nail that foundation and that foundation by the way is the, you know, the hook, the big idea of whatever it is that you are selling coming up with a really, really good offer you know, having content that is congruent with whatever it is that you are selling. Having a title of your webinar that is congruent with the content of your webinar you know.

If you have really nail all that, you are going to sell so much more than if you have all these fancy bells and whistles in place, but you do not have that core foundation in place, okay.

So that is where you have to start, so if you are doing it yourself, make sure that you have that in place you know, if you do not, if you cannot afford us or you know, whatever, that is fine, but make sure you have all that in place and that is why I am coming out with this is because you know, our fees to do with this automated webinars are not cheap you know what I mean. They are not technically cheap in terms of like actual you know dollars, but they are cheap when you compared it to like the results that you get right, like this client, he got a multiple times ROI you know, John in his first webinar, and now he runs that every single week, right.

So it is -- I mean it is just, it is a complete no brainer for clients that you know, have the revenue right. And you know, of course, if you are listening to this and you have a high ticket product or service and you, you know, this message resonates with you then I want you to get in touch with me right, because you know, we have really narrowed down, we have really solidified our you know, our processes and our systems and our frameworks for building out these webinars for clients right.

So if you do not want to wait for the product to come out right and either way is fine like if you do not have you know the funds and you would rather just wait for the product to come out next month you know, it is probably going to be $997 you know, that is probably -- I am just going to throw it out there now I mean it is very likely going to be the price. I have to think about it more but that is probably going to be the price, it is affordable for any you know, real business owner.

So you know, if you really do not have the funds then just do that you know, that is totally fine, but if you have the funds you know, and a lot of times you know, I have even helped clients do like a little promotion to their list to come up with a funds you know, I have done that a lot, but if you have the funds for building anatomy of webinar which is typically you know, like the $6,000 to $10,000 range to build out one of these automated webinars for you wherein we do the whole thing, there is only one little kind of piece that we you know, basically you know, we work with you for like the content piece of the webinar because you are the you know, you are the content expert. So we kind of work with you on that aspect, but you know, if you have the funds, definitely get in touch because we are killing it with our clients with doing these you know, doing these webinars. I just you know, helped another client do it and they are making -- the last time I checked, you know, she was making $1,300 a day with you know, with her automated webinar you know, I mean we have done a lot of them you know, I have done some launching products you know, I have done and that was the one it did 6 times expected revenue. I did you know, somewhere, he was making $57 for every $7 that he spent you know, I mean we have done a lot of these for clients not to mention myself you know, they do all of our webinars really well, you know. A lot of the clients that I talked to on the phone have gone through the webinar and then they get in touch with me you know.

So anyway, if you are interested in talking about you know, us building one of these webinars for you, feel free it is support@jeremyreeves.com and my -- that will go into my support team, they will forward it to me. Yeah, let us you know, talk about doing this for you because you know, our system, we can get them done fairly quickly. It takes I do not know, maybe 4 weeks or so depending on exactly what we are doing like I am building one now and it is for -- someone actually that I was on a summit with right, she interviewed me to go in her summit and then she hired me to build the funnel for her.

So with hers, there is a little bit more because we are doing a -- basically, we are doing a promotion after the webinar. We have a couple of upsells and downsells. We have a thing you know, one of her funnels is working really well you know, we are king of putting that together before the webinar. So there is a bunch of different ways to do it, but you know, it is taking more of like 6 weeks, but usually, it is about 4 to 5 something like that kind of also depends on how many other clients we are working with it at the moment, all that kind of stuff.

But anyway, if you are interested in that, get in touch and we will talk about you know, I can give you specific quote. I can tell you exactly how long it is going to take exactly what we are going to do for you, but you know, for now, just think about, I mean it is just a results like that is the big thing you know, the nitty gritty specifics really do not matter that much you know like how many emails we are putting in this sequence you know, blah, blah, blah.

What matters is the result that you are going to get right, and the fact that you know when we build this, we build them so that you can profit from paid traffic right and you guys know how often I talk about how that is the holy grail of marketing because when you can run facebook ads and you are making ROI from those facebook ads, you are set. I mean you can go on vacation for 3 months and you know, the ads still run and you still make money and you know, especially if you are selling a product you know, you can automate the whole thing so you do not have to worry about it and you know, it is a beautiful thing.

So that is it for today, I hope you enjoyed this. I hope you get a lot out of like how you know, the frameworks of building a webinar and like what you should not do which is basically you know, putting your focus on like the you know, the nitty gritty specifics and not focusing on the foundational stuff you know, it actually helps you sell you know whatever it is that you are selling in the webinar.

So if you are interested, just get in touch at support@jeremyreeves.com again, you know, the fees are typically like the $6,000 to $10,000 range that depends on what you are selling basically how complex it is you know, if it is something simple, it will be on a lower end you know, free consultations things like that if you are selling a service on the lower end of that, if you are selling an information product you know, the pitch takes longer so that would be in the higher end you know, something like that.

So get in touch and we will talk to you soon and until next time, you know, regardless if what I would like to leave you with is you know, if you do not have a high ticket product, think about what you can come up with that is $500 plus, right, and if you already have one and you do not have a webinar, that should be the next thing that you do okay. I know you have a lot of priorities, that should be like number 1 on your list because it is just going to make you sell more I mean it is just, every single time it helps you sell more you know, so do that and again, you know, if you do not really have the funds or if you just love to do stuff yourself you know and you have a talent for it then wait for next month for the product to come out you know, again, it is only going to be about like $1,000, it is really not much especially considering you know, you are going to make that back probably the first webinar you ever run and then otherwise, if you do not like going through all that hustle because they can be kind of pain in the ass to set up sometimes, then you know, then get in touch and we will build it up for you right and we will you know, we will make you some more money.

So that is it, that is all I got for today. I am actually going to go back and start working again on my client’s webinar right now actually because that is my project for the day.

So I will talk to you soon. I hope you enjoyed this and I will see you next time.

Aug 10 2016

29mins

Play

Rank #7: 2 Huge Lessons Learned From A Failed Facebook Campaign

Podcast cover
Read more

In this episode, I walk you through a new Facebook campaign I
recently launched, which failed. We were testing out a new concept
(which worked beautifully) but the actual campaign didn't do well.
I walk you through exactly what it looked like and most
importantly, why it DIDN'T work and what we're changing for round
#2 to make it work like gangbusters. Enjoy!

Resources Mentioned

www.JeremyReeves.com

Want To Work With Me?

Visit http://www.JeremyReeves.com or email me at
Jeremy@JeremyReeves.com

Enjoy!

Transcript:

Hey, what is going on guys and girls, Jeremy Reeves here again
with another episode of the sales funnel mastery podcast. Today, I
am going to tell you about a giant mistake that I made last week,
right. So, everybody you know, I kind of decided to do this podcast
because everybody always talks about the amazing things that they
did you know. They only talk about things that are going well you
know.

So let me -- I will kind of throw it in there real quick. I
actually just got a testimonial from a coaching client of mine. We
did a funnel day, kind of map out the funnel and then she
(inaudible 0:38.5) coaching client to kind of you know, put the
funnel together and she actually just emailed me over the weekend
and told me that that new funnel is now converting 3 to 5 new
customers every single day to a $350 product, so that is, whatever
that is, like $1300 a day from nothing before that, and it is
consistent too because it is through an automated webinar. We have
this whole sequence set up. So I am pumped about that. So that is
-- we will start off on a good note there.

So what I would like to talk about is a huge mistake that I made
with one of my own campaigns, right. So, if you are on Facebook
maybe you saw one of my ads recently. I just post a campaign this
morning. Essentially, what it was, was Facebook ads to a report, my
top 10 resources and tools that I used to build sales funnels,
okay. That was the free PDF download and then after that it was a
$7 upsell to my 9 Growth Hacks for sales funnels, right. So 9 you
know, funnel hacks if you will, right.

And then after that was an upsell for copy templates, okay. So
that is the funnel, alright. So, I want you to think for a second
about why that funnel is a terrible funnel, okay. I put this
together really fast, I was testing a concept, that is why I put it
together really fast. I think we put it together like 2 hours. It
was just stuff that I already had, kind of just threw it together,
you know, threw some Facebook traffic, couple $100, Facebook
traffic and I was testing something else. So it was not really like
anything they put any thought into. It was more of a concept that I
was testing, but I want you to think of that and think of the
funnel and I want to see if you can figure out what the problem
was, okay. So again, Facebook ads okay, to a landing page and opt
in page that gave away a free report and that report was the top 10
tools and resources that I used to build sales funnels.

The first product was 9 Sales Funnel Hacks, okay.

So think about you know, think in your head what might be wrong
there, okay. I am going to give you a second to think about that
and then I will tell you what went wrong and I will tell you some
of the stats too.

Okay, so a couple of seconds. So did you come up with anything?
Did you figure out what the problem was? So basically, if you think
about it -- so let me start with -- I am going to give you an open
loop here for a second, let me give you cliffhanger and I am going
to tell you some of the stats first, right.

So Facebook ads were doing well. Not usually relevant and I
think that -- I think the relevancy scores maybe -- I think it was
like 4.5 something like that, not great. I was paying $2 a click,
so not great, alright on the relevancy side of things.

And that I think was because, I just threw some -- again, we are
just testing a really quick concept. I just kind of wanted to see
how it played out. So I did not put a lot of time into thinking
about the audience, alright. It was just a whole bunch of internet
marketing gurus and you know, things like that.

Actually we are testing a new thing with Facebook ads and that
actually work out well.

So that was kind of okay, you know. If I had somebody else doing
it for me you know, which normally I would then it would do better
and if I actually put some thoughts into it, you know, the
relevancy score would go away up the cost per click especially with
would come way down you know, $2 cost per click is way, way too
much you know, it should be a $1 or less really.

So that part was kind of okay for this test, right.

The conversion rate was about 50%, alright. So that was awesome
because we are getting $2 of click, we are getting roughly $4 cost
per lead, alright and you know, and the various ads had different
metrics, but that was like kind of the overall.

The one that had most of the traffic was about 350. Another one
was about I think it was about 5 and average about $4 cost per
lead, alright, which you know, $2 cost per click, $4 cost per lead,
gives you 50% opt in rate.

So that of course was great, alright. So 50% opt in rate to the
report offering you know, the resources and tools that I used to
build funnels.

So I got -- I think it was 75 people threw it and my goal -- now
let me bring you up, let me pull up my thing here. This is what we
needed to break even, okay. So this was going to be a campaign that
we want to break even. I do not want to profit on it. I want to
break even because I want to get new customers and essentially
build my list and generate customers for free, okay, that is the
whole purpose of this campaign, it is kind of the end game, it is
something that I want to scale and spend you know, like $1,000 a
day on or something like that you know, that would be, whatever
that is you know, 500 new leads a day, something like that.

That is kind of where I want to take this and you know, I would
not be able to -- if I am going to scale it basically the further
you scale, the less profitable you are going to be. So essentially,
I want to break even on the first transaction, alright. That is the
whole goal of this and to do that I made a little calculator and
what we would -- the numbers we have to hit are $2.50 cost per lead
okay, that is achievable considering we already hit $4 and the you
know, the cost per clicks for like $2.

So I could easily get that down to you know, $1 and get whatever
like a 40% opt in rate and that would give me a cost per lead of
$2.50, roughly.

So and then we will do a 1000 leads total let us just say it is
a day or month or whatever it is. So tripwire price $7 and an
upsell for $97 and if we get a 10% upsell on the tripwire so 10 out
of 100 people buy the $7 product and then 2 out of every 10 of the
tripwire buyers by the upsell, alright.

Very realistic numbers if you have the right offer and the right
relevancy and the right targeting all that kind of stuff, that
would essentially bring us to break even, okay.

The revenues spent or the whatever it would be, the cost per
lead would be $2.50, the value per lead in that scenario would be
$2.64. So that is basically an ROI of 106% so it is just above
break even.

Those are the numbers that we are trying to hit with this new
campaign.

Now, what was the ROI? ROI was 0, right. So we ran 75 leads
through the campaign and got 0 sales. Now, remember, we got 50% opt
ins in the front end, that is great, it is more than where we
wanted to be so that is awesome.

We got 0% to buy the tripwire, okay, and by the way, this is
only stats like immediate, they have not gone through the email
sequence so we will get some sales, but it is not even near where
we need to be because we need to be at 10% tripwire conversion, so
I should have had 7sh sales by now or at least maybe like 4 and
then let the email you know bring in the other 3 right.

So here is the reason why this one did not work, right. The
reason is because of relevancy, okay. Actually, the reason is
because of its relevancy and a problem, alright. So there is
basically 2 reasons.

Number 1 relevancy. The thing we are selling is not relevant to
why they join in the first place, okay. So they are coming on to
the list opting in for resources, okay and then we are saying, hey,
here are our sales funnel hacks you know, it is kind of a very --
it is a little bit of a generic product. It is actually really bad
ass product for $7, you should go buy it from the website. It is
really, really, really good for you know, I mean for you know, for
a $197, but the topic of it is very generic. It is not very
specific to solving a very specific problem okay, and when you are
marketing especially on paid traffic, you need a very relevant
problem to give very specific solution you know, to that problem,
alright.

So the problem was number 1, the relevancy between the opt in so
the PDF that we are given away and the product, alright. So if you
are looking at your funnels and you are having trouble with that,
look at the relevancy between step 1 and step 2.

So that was the first problem, but the -- I think the bigger
problem here is that we are not attracting people with a specific
problem, alright. So if you think about it, you know, the opt in --
everybody likes tools and resources and stuff like that, but think
about the person who -- think about the people who are retracting,
right. There is nothing wrong with them you know, specifically, but
in terms of trying to sell them something we are not giving a
solution to a specific problem okay. So they are downloading tools
well, I mean what problem do they have. They are not dealing with
anything specifically. So anything we offer to them is going to be
like, you know, whatever, you know, they may or may not be dealing
with that problem and you know, not only are we giving -- not only
are we not giving a specific solution to a specific problem, but
they may or may not even be having a problem and we are trying to
sell them a generic product, alright. So you can see on both sides
the opt in and the product that we are trying to sell are not
really relevant to each other. You can make a case for it but they
are not you know, specifically congruent to each other, not
specifically relevant to each other and were attracting people that
are not dealing with the specific problem that we can then solve
for them, alright and that is why this campaign failed, okay. And
again, you know, this is not normally -- I kind of did this to you
know, show you guys and I realized it is kind of putting me in a
bad light, but again, we put like 5 minutes of thought into this.
It was like, hey, what do we have, let us just throw it together
because we were testing a different concept, right, and so we were
not really even looking for the results. We are kind of just
testing something out that I cannot really reveal it yet.

So the concept that we were testing actually did work. So we got
a win out of it, but you know, I saw the results on this, I just
look at it this morning and I wanted to show you guys number 1 that
you know, if you are listening to somebody that is teaching you
about marketing, they should be telling you what they are doing are
wrong too, because I know that for me, and I am sure for you too,
all of your biggest lessons that you have learned come from your
mistakes, right, not from your wins. It is always the mistakes that
lead to the lessons.

So I wanted to show you this one and really to help you because
a lot of people especially with paid traffic, it is hard to get to
work you know, paid traffic and so you have to do a lot of testing
and tweaking and you know, all kinds of different things.

So if you are doing paid traffic you know, the big thing with
paid traffic is you need -- you cannot be going to and reaching out
to a general audience. You need to be going out and offering you
know, picking segments of your audience and giving them a very
specific solution, alright.

So the campaign that we are putting together now is for that. It
is actually going to be for emails you know, so it is going to be a
whole you know, a whole solving email problems essentially. I would
not go through the whole thing yet, but that is essentially what is
going to be. It is going to be a very specific problem, very
specific solution, it is going to be a very logical kind of chain
of products you know, that we are going to do and I can pretty much
guarantee you that is going to be 10 times better than this
especially considering this one did not make any sales. Now again,
(inaudible 13:28.1) 75 leads you know, we really do not have enough
to see but you know, again, we were just testing a different
concept, but I thought it was a good mistake, a good lesson for you
guys and girls to work.

So yeah, so that is it. I hope this helps you make 1 last
mistake in your business. I am actually going to go to the drawing
board a little bit later in my day today. It is gorgeous here in
Pennsylvania, so I am actually going to be mapping out the next
funnel later on today, you know, going to take out a cigar, you
know, take my white board, take it outside, have a cigar and lay
out the whole thing. That is what I do when working with clients is
lay out because you need you know, you need the specific problem.
You give them a specific solution you know, kind of take them down
to funnel and that is what I normally do with clients. This time,
you know, I am just testing on something real quick.

But anyway, I hope that helps you. If you would like to chat
about doing one of these funnels for your business whether it is
you know, converting to your existing audience, whether it is
taking your existing funnel and making it thousand times better,
this is kind of like what we specialized in is taking something
that is already working well and making it just completely taking
it to the next level. That is kind of like what we did with
Melissa, who is now making $1300 a day from her funnel you know,
which before you know, we started working together, she was doing
actually, I will do a separate case study just on her once I get
her approval on everything. I can kind of walk you through the you
know, everything that we did for you know, it was a pretty bad ass.
She is a bad ass entrepreneur, but anyway, I hope you enjoyed this
and reach out if you are interested in chatting about a funnel,
otherwise, if you are enjoying this podcast by the way, everybody
you know is telling me you know, what an amazing podcast is because
I just laid it out there, I am honest, transparent and I know you
guys like that. I know you guys like that I actually deliver value,
believe it or not you know, a lot of podcast it is all about you
know, they bring on interviews and it is all about their stories
and all that freakin crap. So you know that and we do not do that
here.

So if you are enjoying this podcast, you know, tell all your
friends about it. It is shred on social media. Give it a review
that is the big thing here. That will lead to a bigger growth for
the podcast you know.

So anyway, I hope you enjoyed this and I will talk to you
soon.

Apr 27 2016

16mins

Play

Rank #8: 3 Crucial Questions To Help Focus Your Growth Efforts

Podcast cover
Read more

In today's episode, I walk you through the 3 crucial steps I ask myself and my clients when we're thinking of the fastest, easiest path to grow. Very important to know as you put together your 2017 plan. Enjoy!

Resources Mentioned

None

Transcript

Jeremy Reeves: Hey what is going on guys and girls. Jeremy Reeves here with another episode of The Sales Funnel Mastery Podcast.

Today, I want to talk about something that -- I have been thinking about actually since yesterday.

So I have a phone call with someone yesterday, David. Hi David, if you are listening to this. I do not know if you are listening to podcast or not.

But David and I are going to do a funnel day together. It turns out he actually lives like an hour from me which is kind of awesome. I do not really you know, find too many people who also live in Pennsylvania and especially close to me. So that is kind of cool.

And you know one of the things that we kind of talked about and will figure out during the funnel day is kind of where to start, right because he has a lot of things going on, they are already doing really, really well in business, but they do not really have good sales funnel in place. So we are going to work on this kind of you know, taking them from doing well to doing you know, really well you know, from great to extraordinary that kind of thing.

And so I have been thinking since I talked to him yesterday about you know, when you have a lot of things going on or even if you do not have that many things going on but you are you know, you are looking to grow you know, it is December 1st as I am recording this and you know, if you are looking to grow for next year like you know, a lot of you guys and girls are probably thinking about 2017 now and it is like alright well you know, I am making my plan for next year and where do I start? Like you know, what are the things to focus on because there is a billion different things that you can do, but there is only one of you, you know, and even if you have a team there is only 1 team. There is only a certain finite amount of people on your team that have a finite amount of time. So you have to figure out how to spend that time wisely.

So I pretty much you know, when I am looking at you know, where do you start first right.

There are really 3 big things that I look at, okay and the first one is, where you already have momentum.

So you know, look at your business and if you have a hundred things going on and you are looking to find new growth in your business start with you know, where do you already have the most momentum, okay.

And I typically like, I like to maximize the places that are already doing well.

So for example if you have let us just say that your main source of traffic is affiliates, right. Could be affiliates, could be cold traffic you know or you know it could be like pay-per-click, Facebook or Google or whatever or it could be you know, SEO or whatever it is.

Look at you know, figure out where you already have that momentum and maximize that first okay.

So if you are already doing Facebook ads before you start going into you know, Youtube and Nativeads and you know SEO like all those other things. First, maximize what is already working in your business.

That is going to help you find you know, faster growth than if you start a new like a new traffic channel for example right.

If affiliates are your biggest thing, then maximize that first right. Really nail down that process first before moving on to you know, to other things, you know, to other traffic sources or to other you know, conversion things that you are testing or whatever it is.

So that is the first big one is find out where you already have momentum. Put your focus there first right and maximize that first before moving on to other things.

The second thing is what is the biggest leverage, okay.

By the way some of these may cancel the other one out.

So you are going to have to you know, there is a little bit of a gut call in here and that is why these funnel days are so valuable with people because we talk about you know, we discuss all of this. We go through all of this. It brings clarity in everything and we figure out we kind of consider all the different angles and figure out which way is the best one okay.

And (inaudible 4:03.5) is just experience. It is your gut. It is your intuition figuring out where to you know, where to go next.

So anyway, so the second one is you know, what is the biggest leverage, okay.

So you know, you guys have probably heard a lot about leverage you know, it is always you know, if you want to grow you know, figure out where you can have the most leverage because for every you know, ounce of energy that you put in you want to find what is going to give you the biggest output for the least input essentially, right.

So you know, figure out. Look at your business and say okay, where do I have leverage. Where is you know, so for example let us just say that you have 8 different products right, and one of those products is by far you know, head and shoulders a clear winner that gives you the most revenue right.

So for example let us just say that you have just for example’s sake. Let us just say that you have 7 like lower end products for like $50 or $100 and then you have 1 that is $1,000 right.

Well you might want to focus on the $1,000 product because that is going to give you the biggest leverage right.

Maybe you put together webinar for that or maybe you know, whatever your kind of sales process for that is going to be.

You have to look at where am I going to find the biggest leverage. Like where can I get the biggest growth from least amount of effort okay, because essentially if you can you know, if you have 8 hours in a day and it is only going to take you 2 hours to work on the you know, the thing with the biggest leverage, okay.

And you can you know, you are going to get a bigger impact from that than if you put 6 hours in something else right.

Where are you going to spend your time, you are going to spend it on the one where you can get the biggest leverage with a least amount of effort, okay.

Because then that freeze up your time to also include other things to add other things into the mix you know.

To make new hires or to start new marketing channels or to start splint testing or you know, whatever your time is best spent doing okay.

So you know, number 1, look where you already have momentum. Number 2 where is your biggest leverage, okay.

So for him, he is in like the health space okay.

So he has various products and supplements and things like that and so for him, the biggest leverage you know, there are kind of 2 ways that you know, I feel we are probably going to go about it.

Number 1 he already has momentum selling you know bags right there are these like (inaudible 6:34.7) bags. So there is already momentum there okay, but then we are also looking at what is the biggest leverage and that is more of the supplements because there is a lot more opportunity there to grow over the bags okay.

So that is probably like what I was talking before about where you have to look at all of the different factors and say okay well you know, what is the best one like using your intuition.

For me so far, not knowing that much about the business yet I will find that out more when we do the funnel day.

That one is probably going to be the winner looking into the supplements because that is where I have a lot of my expertise. That is where he can find the biggest opportunity for growth okay because you know, it has a higher margins. There is more places to sell it. You can get into cold traffic whereas with the bags it is you know, a little bit harder to do that you know, because there are not like such -- as easy as it sell you know, that kind of thing.

So there are a lot of factors (inaudible 7:32.2).

The 3rd one is where can you get the quickest win.

So a lot of times -- this is really about knowing your own personality right?

So for me, not always, but sometimes, I can push back the reward for a very long time okay.

So for example, I just launched the high ticket freedom formula course, alright.

I worked on that for you know a good portion of this year knowing that I was not going to see any kind of financial reward right, for a long time and that is okay because I knew that once it went live you know, the reward was going to be worth it okay.

It is actually -- we are actually going live on Facebook ads tomorrow with that. So that is really exciting.

I am not sure when this is going live. If Andrea gets it live today then -- she is my VA, then it will be going live tomorrow, but anyway, so you know, where can you get the quickest one?

A lot of people you know, and this is not a good or bad thing. It is just kind of it is what it is.

A lot of people need confidence, alright.

They need confidence in order to keep progressing.

So rather than -- and this is what I do with a lot of my clients. If I have a really big funnel that I am putting together for clients that is going to take like 2 or 3 months right. A lot of times what I will do is get them a quick win upfront.

So for example, for this client, right, we are probably going to figure out a lot of stuff that we can do over the next like 3 or 6 months, but I do not want to have to make him wait to get a return on this investment right because when I work with clients, one of the you know, the first things that goes through my head is how do I get this client a return right, where they are making money back as fast as humanly possible.

And for him, you know, it is December 1st today, right. So what is coming up in a month for health. Everybody wants to lose weight.

So you know, there is a very, very good chance that we are going to do a promotion, some kind of promotion this month or you know, set it up for early next month or whatever. We will figure that out with him to get him a quick win.

So that win is going to basically pay for my fees right and then the rest is kind of just -- he already got that win and the rest is gravy right.

So you know, where can you get the quickest win is the 3rd big one.

What I do is when I am working with clients especially during these funnel days. That is what I look at right.

So you know, we look at where you already have momentum. We look at you know, where is the biggest leverage in the business? What is the biggest opportunity for growth and the easiest way to get that you know opportunity you know, so if you have a whole bunch of trip wires that is probably not the biggest opportunity.

If you have some kind of standout products or services that are higher ticket and you know that kind of thing, the biggest leverage is probably getting a funnel like a paid funnel to that to work properly right.

And then the 3rd thing is you know where can you get the quickest win.

So while you are thinking about 1 and 2 that is like more of a long term, right, you are also thinking about the short term and that is where you can get the quickest win, okay.

So can you do some kind of you know promotion to get a quick win? Can you do -- if you are going to put together a big funnel, can you do just one piece of it, launch that to your audience get the results and then use that to kind of springboard to the rest of the sales funnel right.

So you know, those are just kind of -- a couple quick things that I look at you know, I know everybody is going to start thinking about planning that kind of thing and you know, those are some of the ways that I look at you know, essentially how to achieve faster growth in the easiest way because there is you know, you can find growth. Anybody can grow, but it is a matter of how hard it is and how reliable is going to actually happen, right like the chances of it actually working.

So those are some of the ways that I work with clients and also in my own business for you know, looking at growth right.

So I hope you enjoy that.

If you want to get in touch about doing a funnel day feel free to reach out. You can email support@jeremyreeves.com. Just let me know if you want any more information about that.

It is basically where we spend an entire day together and kind of map out you know, everything in your business. It really depends on what your goals are you know, it is all based on you. There is not like you know, we do this then we do this then we do this. It is all based on you know, where you are in your business and what you are trying to achieve.

I have done them in the past where you know, working with multi-million dollar companies that you know, the owner just wanted more free time right and we figured out ways to automate her marketing and you know, put together an automated sales funnel and she actually took a 2-week vacation for the first time -- completely unplugged in, I think it was like 8 years before that which is kind of awesome you know

And then there are other things that (inaudible 12:16.4) looking for growth you know. I actually just did one a couple of weeks ago and showed the client a lead generation technique that doubled his leads right, within -- it was like 2 days after the funnel day and he -- he actually emailed me and he is like, Oh my God dude, I just got like double leads and yeah so everything above that I mean it is you know, double leads and then we have also put together stuff for you know, higher conversions throughout the sales funnel, all that kind of fun stuff you know, I can go on and on.

Another one actually I did last -- I think it was last year.

Last year you know, she -- and I talked about this in the high ticket freedom formula webinar. She quadrupled her business since you know, since our funnel day and it is really just about focusing you know, it is about okay, well what is working you know, where is the leverage and you know, let us nail that and that what she did and she quadrupled her business. She went from -- it was around $20,000 a month and now I think it averages $80,000 a month. She has had a couple $100,000 plus months. In fact, I think last month, she had $100,000 because she does income reports.

So I follow her you know, keep in touch.

But anyway, if you are interested in that, shoot me an email it is at support@jeremyreeves.com and we can chat about that and yeah that is it for today.

I hope you have an amazing weekend. I hope this helped you and anything else I can do to help you just let me know. Talk to you soon.

Dec 01 2016

13mins

Play

Rank #9: How To Progress Through Each Stage Of Your Sales Funnel

Podcast cover
Read more

In this badass episode inspired by a question asked by a podcast subscriber (Daniel), we cover a question that A LOT of people get hung up over. The question is "At what point do you recommend creating a secondary product/service to offer to customers on the back end as an upsell?"

This question leads me down a full-fledged path of strategizing and structuring your funnel based on which of the three phases you're in. It's one you don't want to miss!

Make sure to SHARE this podcast/episode with your friends, then leave us a REVIEW and get my "101 Conversion Tips" Cheat Sheet... free! Send an email to support@jeremyreeves.com with the name on your review.

 
Resources Mentioned

* JeremyReeves.com

Want To Work With Me?

Visit http://www.JeremyReeves.com or email me at Jeremy@JeremyReeves.com

Enjoy!

Transcript

Jeremy Reeves: Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of the Sales Funnel Mastery Podcast. Today, we are going to go over -- it is actually kind of funny because this morning I just wrote an article about the ‘3 Phases of a Sales Funnel’, right. And then I got back from lunch and also in my list of things to do today was recording new podcast episode.

So I got back from lunch and I checked my email and there is a subscriber from let us see -- Daniel. So hi Daniel, how are you?

So he wrote in basically asking -- he essentially said there is (inaudible 00:00:55) but he essentially said, at what point do you recommend creating a secondary product of service to offer the customers on the backend as an upsell.

So it actually -- he had really, really good timing of that question, so thanks Daniel. So I am going to answer that question. You know, not only when should you add an upsell because I know there is a lot of people that are listening to this already you know, have an upsell.

So what I am going to do is I am just going to kind of take you through the article that I wrote called ‘The 3 Phases of a Sales Funnel’ and it is going to help you -- and I think it is going to help a lot of people on here because, a lot of people get struck in kind of like the structuring phase like what do I do next, what is the next step, what will I do after that, okay now that is done then what you know, that kind of thing.

So I think this is really going to help crystallizing, clarify a lot of the kind of mental blocks that you are having about this, alright.

So you know, throughout all of my you know, various years of doing this and helping people build sales funnels you know, I have helped all kinds of entrepreneurs to build sales funnels everywhere from you know, people with supplements to people with services, to e-commerce stores, to brick and mortar sales funnels and basically everything in between.

And I have kind of come up with 3 different phases that everybody goes to. Does not matter what type of business it is, does not matter what you sell if it is a product service B to B, B to C, online, offline it does not matter at all right.

Everybody goes through this -- this phase, right.

So phase 1 is the foundational stage so this is kind of like the setup and test stage and this is where Daniel is right now. So you know, this is essentially when you are first getting off the ground, right. So in this stage, you are not really looking to you know, 10 extra business or anything like that. What are you looking to do is you know, reclaim some of the time that you are putting into the business by automating some of your key marketing processes and also increase revenues by having more marketing systems in place and have a little bit more consistency and reliability in your cash flow, right.

So the types of people that are going to be in this stage are -- if you are just starting out, you are kind of boot strapping, you are in that you know, that guerilla marketing stage where you are just going out and hustling and trying to get sales, right.

You are probably in either below 6 figures or in the low 6 figures so you know, say somewhere between and you know this varies but roughly between 0 and I do not know, maybe $200,000 or so, okay, couple hundred thousand, right.

It is also for people who are doing well without a funnel but are kind of a little bit hesitant about marketing and that is really because a lot of these people are like even -- like for example, I have a client that is doing about 3 million dollars right and that was basically without a sales funnel. You know, that was -- I guess she was doing 3 million. So that was without a sales funnel. So then we went in and we helped her and she is still in the process of putting it all together and all that kind of stuff.

And she did a little bit different like nothing super crazy because she wanted to kind of see the results first and then you know, it was new to her. So she wanted to start a little smaller, okay.

So this stage is not -- it is not there to maximize your profit. It is really to get a foundation in place that can be built upon as you increase results and then you get more cash to then reinvest back into your marketing campaigns, right.

So what are you going for in this stage, you are really trying to figure out exactly you know, who you market is, what your USP is, exactly how you can help people, what makes you standout that is different in the marketplace right. That is what that stage is about you know, figuring out you know, starting and get some systems in place, marketing and like operational systems all that kind of stuff you know, add a couple employees that kind of thing, just to get your legs going you know, just kind to kind of get a little momentum in the marketplace, right.

So what makes up you know, if you are going to think about a list of everything that makes up your kind of foundational marketing funnel, it is going to be your unique selling prepositions. So in this stage you are finding out you know, like I just said, you need to know exactly who it is that you help, what end result that you given them and how you do it in a way that is unique to you and your company, right.

Because that, once you have that, that is going to be the cornerstone of all your marketing communication that you have throughout the funnel. So there is no point in going to phase number 2 or getting into like you know, crazy segmentation and all that stuff without knowing your USP because then you are just going to -- you are going to have to go and redo everything, right.

I also recommend having basically a lead magnet, a prospect email sequence, at least 1 core offer and 1 upsell offer and a buyer sequence, okay. So you know, lead magnet as you know, I am sure everybody knows this is like something that you give away for free to get people to raise their hand to say, ‘Hey, I am interested in what you got’, you know, so it could be a free PDF, video, webinar you know, physical book that you give away free plus shipping, something like that.

So when they opt in to that you know, so it is like, ‘Hey you know, raise your hand if you are interested in whatever it is’, losing weight 7 days or less whatever. So they opt in, they go into your prospect email sequence.

These -- the prospect email sequence this first one is basically designed to show people that you specifically are the person to best equip to help them solve their problem. So they should be written you know, in a way that is entertaining, engaging, valuable and offers a chance to click on you various links to go to your products and services, okay, pretty simple.

And for this phase, I usually start off with you know, 10 emails over 30 days is a good -- actually 11 emails over 30 days alright, because you should also have an indoctrination email in there which I might do a separate -- I am actually writing an article about that too. So I might do a separate podcast just about that.

So 11 emails over 30 days but the first 2 go out immediately you know, when they opt in. Then you should have -- I usually recommend you know, some people just say, oh well you should just have 1 service or 1 more product or whatever, I usually like to do 1 you know, 1 core main offer and then 1 upsell offer of some sort, right.

So you really in this stage you do not want to go much higher than that because again, you are trying to find out exactly what your USP is, exactly what traffic source you know, what is working for you, what types of marketing works you know, what types of people are attracted to you -- you are trying to like pull out your personality a little bit because it takes a while to get that. You know, you are trying to get all this foundational stuff in place, okay. So just 1 main offer and then 1 upsell offer, okay.

And then a buyer sequence, so people who buy your product, they should get a buyer sequence. If they buy your main offer, then you, you know, your first couple emails are essentially like, ‘hey, thanks’ you know, is to get them to actually use the information so they will get a good experience so that you can then get case studies and testimonials things like that, so you can start building your proof.

And then as it goes up to you know, after the first couple of emails, then you start getting into, ‘hey you know, maybe you have seen some results already you know, if you have not, here is a couple of ways to get better results’ and then once you have you know, ‘here is another thing that we offer that is going to get you even better results’, okay.

So that is basically the foundational funnel right.

Now in terms of you know, in terms of the next phase which I call the maximization stage okay. This is you know, I do not really like to say like, oh it’s you know, like he said, in a book that he was reading by Mark Ford, I forgot what the book is called, let me look real quick. It is called, and it is really good – ‘Ready, Fire, Aim’ which by the way, it is an awesome book, Mark Ford is brilliant.

So ‘Ready, Fire, Aim’, if you have not read that, go pick that up by Mark Ford it is awesome. It might be Michael Masterson I forgot which name he uses for that one. Michael Masterson is his -- like pen name.

So he says that you really should move on to this next stage, you know, until like you should really only have like 1 core offer until you hit a million. I think it is a more like maybe the $500,000 mark, something like that, but you know again, it kind of varies, I do not really think that is -- I do not really think that you can put you know, -- I do not really know that you can a number on it because there is too many factors involved.

So you know, let us just say roughly you know, $250 to $750 okay, somewhere in that range just when you should start thinking about phase number 2.

Phase number 2 is the maximization stage okay and this is when basically you maximize the potential of your marketing funnel, okay. You are not maximizing your funnel. You are maximizing the potential of your marketing funnel, okay. It is kind of like putting a supercharger on a car but not having the other things that are going to maximize the supercharger like if the supercharger is capable of producing 800 horsepower but you also need you know, an upgraded exhaust, you need an upgraded headers like all that kind of stuff. By the way, I apologize for anybody who does not anything about cars but you know, supercharger makes the car go faster but you also need some other parts to really maximize the power of the supercharger, okay.

That is what the maximization stage is. So essentially getting all of your stuff in place and then on the next phase which is like the testing and perfecting stage that is what you actually maximize everything.

So in this stage, you are going to be implementing all the various pieces that make up for the potential -- they make up the potential for the perfect funnel, okay. So again, I typically you know, let us just say somewhere in like the $250,000 to $750,000 range, so let us just say roughly $500,000. Mostly because at that point, you already know who your market is, you already know you know, a lot of the factors that are working so then you can put things in place to then you know, kind of move up the ladder.

So a couple of things that I recommend for this stage right. Number 1 is segmentation. So this is when you are going to want to begin segmenting your funnel. So that means that you know, you can segment your prospect lists so you can speak to them in a very much more articulate way for you know, for example you can segment them by you know, men versus women or by age or by interest or whatever make sense for you.

It also means segmenting your buyer’s emails and putting them into unique categories based on what they have purchased in the past. So let us just say that you have 2 or 3 different you know, you have 2 or 3 products in your upsell chain right and I am just pretending I know some people might not have an upsell chain but you know, if 2 or 3 different products of services they are only going to get emails in the buyer sequences based on the things they have not bought, okay. Whereas in the beginning, maybe they already bought you know, essentially you are just doing 1 buyer sequence and that is for every, any buyer and then in this you are going to segment them based on exactly what they bought, okay, I hope that make sense.

And you are also going to want to make sure that you know, if they bought a $997 course, you want to make sure that you are not trying to sell them something for $97 because it does not really make funnel. It does not really make sense.

So you know, if they bought something for $997 then you want them to be going up the ladder not down the ladder, okay.

So you know, there are a whole bunch of places to do this by the way, you can do it on your landing page, you can do it based on the opt in so they could get different email sequences and you know, list or campaigns based on what type of opt in they have because you know, if you have 1 for your report that is like you know, how to lose weight by juicing you know, and then another for your report, how to lose weight by running. Well, obviously 1 person is more interested in the nutritional side and the other person is more interested in the exercise side, okay. You are going to talk to those people very, very, very differently, okay.

You can also do things like you know, for one example you know, you might send it like a pop-up quiz determining you know, which -- if I was doing this for you right, I could say, I can have a pop-up quiz. I can send you guys 2 quiz that says, hey, you know, here are a couple of questions that you can answer about your business and I actually might do this, it is actually kind of good idea you know. I would ask you a couple questions and based on your questions it would tell me if you were in which of these 3 stages and then based on which of those 3 stages, I could then determine what -- you know, I could then have an educated guess on what the solution would be.

So for example, if you are in phase 1, well then my products would be a really good solution for you because you probably do not have the budget to go out and hire somebody for a sales funnel, whereas if you are in phase 2, where you are at least you know, couple hundred thousand dollars in revenue then you know, most likely have the revenue to be able to hire somebody like us, right. So you could do things like that.

So there is a lot of different ways to segment your audience. I cannot really go into the whole thing here because that is --- you know, that is like a whole book in itself, let alone you know, part of a podcast.

So the next part is filling in your product suite. So basically, you are just gonna want to look for any gaps in your suite of products and services, okay. So you are going to be wanting to look in 2 main areas, 1 is adding some type of continuity program so you can help generate a little bit more consistent cash flow and then the second part is coming out with a higher price products and services that give people you know, whatever results that you are giving in your first product come out with something that is higher-end or gives an even better, faster, easier results, okay.

You know kind of a general rule of thumb with that is that the more access they get, either to you or the more detailed information in the course, the better, faster, and easier results then the higher you can charge, okay.

And then the next thing is -- the next thing that you going to want to focus on in phase number 2 is getting paid traffic to work, so scalability, right. You are going to want to make sure that your funnel is scalable.

So in phase 1, a lot of your traffic is going to be from things like SEO or joint ventures or you know, doing things you know, having like a platform you know, like this, this is a platform where I can kind of share my ideas and I get a lot of people who listen to this and become clients you know, some kind of platform like that.

I also write a bunch of guest articles, I am on other people’s podcast that kind of thing. So that is all traffic in like stage 1, right. And then you can also -- and keep doing that, by the way as you move down on stage 2 and 3 that is totally fine because those -- you know, the stage 1 traffic sources are generally a lot more profitable right, like per, you know, per visitor like your ROI is a lot higher but they are more time consuming.

So as you go in phase 2 into paid traffic well paid traffic you are not going to have the same ROI but it is a lot less time-consuming because you should have somebody you know, managing your traffic for you and you have a lot more reach, you know, whereas if you go on a podcast you know, maybe you are in front of I do not know, couple hundred people, and you might get like you know, 10 to 50 opt-ins something like that versus you know, you spend like an hour or 2 hours of your time versus you know, doing paid traffic and you could get you know, a thousand opt ins every single day with 0 work, right.

But the thing with paid traffic is it takes time you know, a lot of people are like, ‘oh you know, the first time we do anything with the funnel is going to be instantly profitable’, well you know, sometimes it works like that and that is awesome. Other times it does not, it kind of depends on your industry. If you do that in a health niche, for example, then it is probably going to take you a little bit of time, a little bit of testing and tweaking to really get that to work, so that when you put in $1 you are going to get $1.50 or whatever it is, right.

So paid traffic is really like the big thing in phase number 2, okay. Because honestly, like when you get to the point where you can spend $1 and make $2 I mean the game is over, because if you can outspend you competitors that is when you win every single time because you know, you essentially just outbid them in everything that you do, so that is kind of like the you know, the holy grail here.

And a lot of these other things help make that happen so by doing segmentation, by filling in your product suite that is what is going to allow you scale because you are going to have a better backend to make your profits because if you want to scale, you are probably not going to make a ton of money upfront you know. You might make maybe like a 10% to 50% return like you know, if you spend $1 you are going to make $1.10 to $1.50 back in most cases on the frontend, okay or even break even, it is fine.

Where you make the money in phase number 2 is in the backend. So phase number 1, you are making all your money in the frontend. You move to phase number 2 that switches to the backend, okay.

The next thing -- and the last thing for phase 2 is hybrid marketing. So a lot of people, if they -- you know, they call themselves “online marketers” which is the biggest bullshit in the history of the freaking world. Please if you call yourself an online marketer just take you know, take your -- grab your right wrist with your left hand and smack yourself across the face with it because if I was there with you, I would do that for you.

This is a huge, huge, huge mistake and also, I mean you know, I am kind of saying that well, semi-sarcastically, I probably would not smack you in the face but it’d be kind of fun but anyway, if you are only doing online marketing right, it is okay, in phase 1 it is okay, because you are essentially focusing just on, like, being profitable actually getting money, coming in the door so you can reinvest it.

In phase 2 you really, really, really want to start switching to hybrid marketing because -- I mean this is like -- I mean this is the topic for an entire book but you know, just the kind of like sum this up, I mean there is just so many different ways to generate business in both areas that it is just stupid not to, you know. A lot of times your lead acquisition costs are cheaper on the internet but if you are not doing things offline you are missing an entire segment of the market, you know. You cannot do things like postcards or have salesmen to call customers after ordering which by the way is one of the fastest way that you can scale paid traffic, just a little hint there. You know, doing trade shows, doing events, doing speaking, doing direct mail letters, joint ventures. I mean there are so many different things that you can do offline.

For example, I am gonna be coming out with something called funnel weekend, right. That is going to be an offline event that I am doing and it is going to grow, you know, it is going to be one of our new things that we are doing this year to grow the business, right, and I will do an announcement when that gets a little bit closer but it is going to be pretty awesome.

So basically, you know, do hybrid marketing. If you are in phase 2, start thinking about hybrid marketing and how you can start moving offline right, not only offline but both online and offline, okay.

Phase number 3 is the perfection stage. So in this -- if you have ever heard the song, this is the song that, I forgot was it doesn’t end or never ends. This is a song that doesn’t end or never ends, I do not know what it is, doesn’t end, I do not know I think it doesn’t end. It is kind of like this you know, this is the phase that never ends, okay.

So phase 3 is basically split testing. It is basically taking what you already have and getting it perfect because no matter who you hire right, I am saying this as somebody who builds sales funnels and one of the best out there, by the way. No matter who you hire to build your sales funnel it will never ever, ever, ever, ever -- it is impossible to be perfect the first time that it is done because nobody is psychic, you know. Trust me, if I was psychic, I would be the first trillionaire in the world because I would be able to say, ‘hey, this is going to -- you know, we are going to do this and because we already know that you know, we have done our little psychic shift in our mind and you know, we found out we have kind of tapped in to the ethers and they told us that this is the best possible combination of all these hundreds of variables, okay’. And if I have that ability, I would be trillionaire probably tomorrow.

Unfortunately, you know, we do not have that ability. So that is why split-testing was invested.

So you know, in stage number 3, you should have your metrics. All your metrics should be you know, you should have them laid out, you should be you know, counting them or whatever, not counting them but keeping track of them on a monthly basis or weekly basis and a couple that you should do you know, cost per lead definitely, also do that per channel. So cost per lead and cost per customer. Do those per channel. At least do, like, cold traffic versus warm traffic if you do not want to get like super segmented with it.

You know, in phase number 3 like you are definitely in the 7-figure range. A lot of them are in 8-figure range you know, that kind of thing. So you can afford to start segmenting a lot of stuff, right, and it is worth it because you will find that you know, some traffic sources are worth like 10 times more for you and some sub traffic sources like for example, if you are using AdWords, you will find that, you know, AdWords might be -- you might get a cost per you know, cost per customer of, you know, whatever $10 on AdWords where maybe it is $100 on twitter something like that you know, I mean obviously that is just an example but -- And then you are also, if your average cost per customer is $10 on AdWords you are going to find that you have some keywords, this goes back to the 80/20 rule, you are going to find that you have some keywords that you are getting cost per customer probably $2. So guess what you do. I can let you figure this one out. You do more of that. So, again, very easy.

Another thing is lifetime customer value and then also value per visitor, right. That is a good place to start there is more but that is a good place to start for most people.

So what are you going to be doing in this stage is basically looking, breaking down your funnel step-by-step you know, the opt-in process, the -- you know, how many the percent of open rate percent click rate and your emails, your conversion rate on your sales page, your conversion rate on your order form, your conversion rate on each of your upsells and all that kind of thing.

And you are going to test every single, little, tiny step for that funnel and you are going to keep getting each step better and better and better, okay and that is the last stage and really that process never ends, right. That is -- you know, because by the time you find the what are you going to get you know, the maximum conversion well you are going to have a new product so then you will have to test that or you are going to have a new marketing channel you know, traffic channel, you are going to have to test that, you know.

So things change. This process just never stops. So once you hit phase 3 it just keeps going and going and going and going and then you know, eventually you outsource that part and then you sell the business and then you know, you make a big you know, bundle of cash and then you go and sit on the beach and get fat for about a year and then you come back and you do the whole process all over again.

So couple of really quick things before we wrap this up because this actually went a lot longer than I thought but I was on a roll there.

So couple quick things with split-testing, okay. Do not test small, right. So do not test things like button color or different fonts or the color of your background, right. That is just -- I cannot stand when people talk about stuff like that because it is ridiculous, it is absolutely freaking just insane. I spent a lot of time in the conversion optimization world, I am not like I do not really you know, I am not you know, a CRO conversion rate optimization specialist, but it’s, I mean it is absolutely part of the process. You know, I have gotten offered jobs by some of the best companies in the world to do this stuff and you know, that kind of thing but you know, it is -- you know, everything that I read about it is just, oh, it makes me cringe.

So anyway, those little things, do not test stuff like that. Don’t, you know, it is not worth it, right. If you have been split testing for 5 years and you cannot find wins anymore then you can start testing things like that were you are going to get you know, maybe 3% to 5% increases or whatever, right, but in the beginning you want to test things that are going to make a profound difference like your offer which could be you know, your guarantee, your price-point, your terms, what is included, the bonuses, how it structured you know, like the media format, like PDF versus video that kind of thing, your positioning, your target market, your media format so for example text versus video, preselling strategies so what they see before the sales letter and you know, a million other things.

The next thing is, segment your traffic. So I already talked about this you know, make sure that you are segmenting your traffic and a good place to start again is cold versus warm. So test your cold traffic which would be like you know, most paid me there you know, if you are doing Facebook ads, you are doing you know, Google ads, you are doing Twitter or Instagram whatever, post cards, anything like that, that is your cold. And then split test that, have a different funnel essentially like you have -- you already have your funnel, so you basically duplicate it and then you keep the one you have as your -- as your warm funnel essentially and keep that like for things you know, on your website and when you are doing joint venture traffic and things like that.

And then you have your cold sales funnel and that is specifically for paid traffic, okay. So that is a good place to start and then you can also do, you can also breakdown even more by like you know, AdWords funnel versus the Facebook funnel or you know, you can get crazy like that but that is kind of like the more advanced version of all this. Most people are not gonna have do that -- so do that.

The next thing is discover why it works. So when you are split testing, do not look for wins, right, you have to look for learnings you know, hopefully they correlate you know, you get a win and you learned something, but a lot of times, you learned more when you lose tests, so keep that in mind. That is why not every test is a bad test.

So for example, if you test the exact same sales copy in you know, in video format versus text, will you find out what your audience prefers and believe it or not, regardless of what the gurus say, not everybody likes video, trust me on that. And another thing, if you test payment plans, right, and an overwhelming majority of your audience chooses the payment plan over the one-time option. Well, you just learned something pretty valuable that you could use you know, for future use, okay. And very similar to this is look for business wide applications, right.

What I mean by that, is you know -- if you test headline right, that headline is kind of specific to that whatever it is that you are selling versus if you test something like video or text like if you have the exact same text, you have a text and you have video and you find out that your conversion rate is 30% higher with text or video or whatever it is, then you know that you should use text in the future or you should use the video in the future, right. That is going to depend on your market and other factors to but you know, things like a headline is going to be very specific to that product so that is not a business-wide application, that is a product specific application versus something like you know, again, you know, video or text or payment options or something like that.

You can apply that in every single product throughout your funnel, right. It is not going to be a 100% but it is going to be you know, in most cases like you have 10 products and you do you know, a video versus text and the video wins, well, then you can do essentially like a second test to like a confirmation test, do it on another product and if that one wins by similar amount well then you know that you can probably count on putting that you know, that find into the other A products and it is also going to give you a similar increase, okay.

So that is about it, it has been over a half hour now. So I hope you enjoyed that. If you know, as usual, if you enjoyed this please leave us your review just go on iTunes and click the little review button and then shoot us an email support@jeremyreeves.com and we will send you our ‘101 Conversion Tips’ which is a PDF that I used to sell for $77 and I will give you that for free for leaving us a review just you know, obviously tells which one that you left and then also if you know anybody who is looking to get a sales funnel created just let me know.

Again, support@jeremyreeves.com just let me know that you are interested and you know, and my team will forward it to me and we can kind of discuss the details.

Also, while I am here I am going to be out in San Diego at the traffic and conversion summit from the 8th until whatever that is, the 12th I am checking my calendar now, 8th until the 12th, yeah, so I will be in that Monday on the 8th and I am leaving Friday morning the 12th, so basically the 8th to 11th.

If you would like to meet up, if you are kind of interested in you know, talking to you know, to me a little bit more about having us build your funnel and you want to meet up I will happily buy you a dinner or something like that. I know that my schedule is really, really booked already so I cannot promise anything but just shoot me an email you know, maybe we can make it happen, maybe not, but you know, it does not hurt to ask you know, I already know that I have a dinner basically right after I land in you know, in San Diego and then I am going to a yacht party on one of the days I am not sure yet and then I am doing another funnel day while I am out there actually kind of a double funnel day and then possibly another one.

So anyway, just shoot me an email. If you are interested in meeting up out there and you are you know, you are considering working with us, you want to kind of meet in person whatever, then hey -- you know, even if you just kind of see me walking around make sure you say hi but that would be cool to meet up.

So shoot me an email, support@jeremyreeves.com let me know you are going to be out there and we can see if we can make something to happen, alright. So with that said, I hope you enjoyed this episode, this was a fun one for me, I think we have covered a lot of stuff and I hope this really helps you get a little bit of clarity on helping you know, like kind of structuring your funnel and when to do what and how to -- when to move onto the next stage and all that kind of stuff.

So I hope this helps. I will talk to you soon.

Jan 26 2016

33mins

Play

Rank #10: Doberman Dan On Never Giving Up

Podcast cover
Read more

In this episode, we chat with "Doberman Dan", Dan Gallapoo. Dan has gone through more disasters and failures than most people do in a lifetime, yet has figured out a way to "get up" over and over again. We talk about what it means to be a REAL entrepreneur, how to continue to push forward when everything around you is crumbling, and much more. This is a must-listen!

Resources Mentioned

dobermandan.com

Transcript

Jeremy Reeves: Hey what is going on guys and girls. Jeremy Reeves here with another episode of The Sales Funnel Mastery Podcast.

I am saying my own title wrong.

And today I have on the line, a good buddy of mine.

His name is Doberman Dan. If you guys have been around you may or may not have heard his name.

He is a little bit of an underground kind of guy, a little bit how I am and he likes it that way. He likes to do things to himself in the dark.

Dan is -- he is basically the true definition of a kitchen-table entrepreneur you know and that is kind of what we are going to talk about today is you know, what a real entrepreneur is and some of the stories that he has.

I know -- I met him down in -- I think it was Florida?

Doberman Dan: Yeah. We were in Naples.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. Naples. Both kind of working with the same client and so we you know, had a fun night out and I heard some of his stories. I am not sure he is going to repeat them on here or not but he has got some interesting tales and so we are going to get into that.

I am going to kind of give a little bit of a disclaimer that you may not want to listen to this when you are in front of young children or sensitive wives or husbands.

If anybody is sensitive to language, I have given Dan full permission to be himself, so we are going to see where that leads.

And you know, like I said, he has got some interesting you know, stories to tell.

So with that said, Dan, tell everybody a little bit more about your story and kind of you know, where you started you know, some of the things that you have done in your life. What you do first of all and we will go from there.

Doberman Dan: Well thanks for the opportunity Jeremy. I have been looking forward to this. We had fun down in Naples and I mean really other than some emails we really have not a chance to speak since then.

Jeremy Reeves: I know. It sucks.

Doberman Dan: So cool. So now we got to do that and then you get to record it and other people got to eavesdrop I guess. So I am going to tell all the crazy stuff you did on Naples after several weeks (inaudible 2:27.0) lampshades on your head and all that stuff.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. I was drinking at Manhattan that night I think.

Doberman Dan: That is right. That is right.

So my story is I am a guy who grew up in Barberton, Ohio. So raised by poor parents. They are good people, just poor. Poor because they were poor in thought and -- you know, not to make excuses, but my mother grew up in (inaudible 2:56.8) poverty and if you ain’t seen Mississippi poverty, you ain’t seen poverty. It ain’t like the poverty you know, you and I see Jeremy when I lived in Ohio and you up in PA.

This is 3rd world poverty. So you know, that affects a person and they usually (inaudible 3:16.3) so that was pretty much my life had been decided for me because of that conditioning and my faith so to speak was for me to graduate from Barberton high school and do the best -- get the best job I could possibly get which was at that time (inaudible 3:38.1 ) rubber companies in Akron, Ohio, but I get fired (inaudible 3:41.8 ).

Unfortunately, in 83, when I graduated (inaudible 3:46.5) started moving out of Akron. So yeah, I did figure out what the heck I was going to do and to keep this short, I bounced around from thing to thing. Took the first jobs I could get and they were a lot of them. Vacuum cleaner salesman.

Jeremy Reeves: Nice.

Doberman Dan: Yeah.

Jeremy Reeves: That had to be exciting.

Doberman Dan: So exciting. I was not door to door though, although, I have sold stuff door to door too, not vacuum cleaners but (inaudible 4:16.4) distance service door to door, but yeah, the vacuum cleaner gig was I was manufacturers rep, but I would go into retail establishments and I have to sell the people you know, looking for vacuum cleaner. I had to sell them all my particular brand and so --

Anyway, one of the gigs I got was in security at the mall and then that lead to loss prevention job in a department store.

This pre-camera days Jeremy if you keeping imagining this we lurked the floor in you know, just civilian clothes with a bag on our hands like we were shoppers, but we are out looking for shoplifters.

So that lead to meeting some of the local cops and then some of our friends I worked with say, Hey, work at city of Dayton, giving civil service test for police officer. We are going to go take it next week. You want to go?

And my first reaction was, well, yeah I guess. I will take the civil service test but anything after that if they call me in for an interview you know, I have to be honest about my drug use in high school and he was like, wait you are going to be disqualified because I smoked a lot of weed.

Anyway, long story short, the Dayton Police Department understood that that was part of the growing up phase and they hired me.

And that was supposed to be a temporary gig Jeremy while I went and sought my true life form dream of being a professional musician.

So the police department thing was like, ah well, I can (inaudible 5:50.3) buy some guitar gears and recording gear you know and then when I get (inaudible 5:55.9) money saved up, I will move out to LA and go to musician institute or something.

Anyway, my temporary and I am doing (inaudible 6:05.3) temporary job with the city turned into a 12 year gig and through 9 of those years, first 3 years full time police officer, part-time entrepreneur, but part-time failed entrepreneur every single venture. I tried to go in, just crashed and burned.

It was painful.

If I got (inaudible 6:35.2) or I would have been living under bridges and eating up dumpsters.

So through just at filing, getting tired of beat my head up against the wall, and all these failed ventures, I stumbled upon this dude name Dan Kennedy.

You have heard of Dan right.

Jeremy Reeves: A little bit.

Doberman Dan: Speaking of an underground guy. Nobody in online marketing or direct response marketing has ever heard of Dan Kennedy.

Jeremy Reeves: He is probably the most well known marketer I think that has ever lived.

Doberman Dan: I am going to agree with that.

So I bought some of Dan’s stuff because it was promising that it could help you get a lot of customers and whatever business I had at that time (inaudible 7:16.8) was failing miserably I thought well maybe this is what I need, but I totally got flipped around when I realized, man I just bought some really bad copies in a 3-ring binder in like really bad audio cassette copy, probably like 8th generation audio cassette copy.

If anybody remembers audio cassette it is like, would you make a copy of a copy of a copy 8 times. The quality of that is like (inaudible 7:47.7).

Jeremy Reeves: They sound like The Martian.

Doberman Dan: That is right.

And I realized -- oh by the way, the product was awesome. It was all information about direct response marketing which I did not know anything about, but I realized this Dave Kennedy dude just sold me this thing paper and ink and a few cassettes for $400 with a letter and I thought, that is a way cooler business than any of these other ones I have tried to get going.

So yeah, they got me started down the path of direct response marketing and copywriting and that led me starting my first mail order business in 1995 which was an information business in bodybuilding market.

That was after 9 years of failure, that was the first business that works for me and about a year later, it was making -- not a lot of money, but it was making enough money to get me free of the police department job.

So ever since 95 that has been my whole deal.

Me starting businesses like that on my kitchen table with nothing but a yellow pad, a blue pen, and this squishy gray matter between my ears.

Jeremy Reeves: Nice. Yeah. And you know, I know you used to be on the bodybuilding.

In fact, I actually saw a picture, I do not know. I think this is you. There is a gray picture -- if you look up Doberman Dan in Google there is a gray picture of you I think when you were younger. It is in Fitness Atlantic. I am going to Skype it to you right now.

Doberman Dan: I am 51 now, I am sure I was in much better shape when I was younger. I am sure of it when I was younger.

Jeremy Reeves: There. I just send it to you. I am going to put that picture up in the show notes just to embarrass you.

Doberman Dan: (inaudible 9:33.6) make sure it is me. My goodness. I am downloading it now. This will be interesting. Is it the one in the blue shirt?

Jeremy Reeves: No. No. You have your shirt off.

Doberman Dan: Oh no, no, no, no. That is not me (inaudible 9:51.9) any pictures of me with my shirt off.

Jeremy Reeves: Okay. It looks like you actually.

Alright. Never mind, I cannot embarrass you then.

Damn it. Alright.

Anyway, so getting back to copy and not talking about your shirt off. As exciting is that would probably be to listen to.

Doberman Dan: At this point, at age 51, it will be exciting to know one.

Jeremy Reeves: So I mean you used to be a huge -- are you doing anything with that anymore. I feel like you sold that business a while back right?

Doberman Dan: Yeah I did. That infobusiness in bodybuilding niche led to a supplement business. My first supplement business because I figure it out you know, (inaudible 10:34.2) I am making pretty money selling infoproducts to these guys, but these guys are -- spent a lot of money on supplements.

So I just kind of figured, all I need to do with my customers who buy my info is just flipped them to buy supplements from me. They are already buying the stuff. (inaudible 10:50.9) buying them for me and that 10x my business (inaudible 10:54.8) overnight.

So that was fun, but I sold that business quite some time ago yeah.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah that is -- I work with a lot of people in the you know, the health market now and that is one of their main strategies is like, hey, I am going to teach you how to do this and then the pitch is so easy. It is hey, look, you know, I just taught you how to do whatever like overcome this or you know, get bigger or get skinnier or you know, get better vision or feel better or whatever it is and then it is like, hey do you want to just take a pill and you know, and you will get that result and it is such an easy like just you know, like you said, 10 times your business and you know, I think that is why -- it such an -- like a congruent up sell to what you sold them first you know.

I think a lot of people missed that you know, when they are doing up sells I see people they are selling 1 thing and then you know, you get to the next page or they have the backend and they are selling something that is like, it is like kind of in the same realm, but it is really not like hey, you know, it is not the next logical step you know.

Like infoproduct to a supplement is a perfect logical step because it is like hey, you can either go through everything. Do everything on your own. It is going to take in the next 6 months to get results. It is going to be complicated blah.. blah.. blah. or you are going to just take this and you know, you get bigger or get skinnier or whatever and it takes like 3 seconds you just pop the pill.

I actually just took a fish or krill oil supplement as you were talking.

But yeah --

Doberman Dan: I agree.

Sorry to interrupt.

You just pointed out something that is you know, from your observations there is really downright brilliant. It is a great marketing lesson and it is also a good lesson in human nature that people want the magic pill.

So the closer your stuff whatever that is your product, your services, your advise can be to a magic pill most likely the better it is going to sell.

So the bodbuilders like I said they will buy information, but what they really wanted is they wanted the magic pill or they want -- I want the magic protein powder that I can drink this today and tomorrow I wake up looking like Arnold.

And even so that is what they want to buy you know, they are buying protein powder and creatine stuff.

So I sold what they wanted.

Now the reality is all that stuff helps okay, but what they really need was better information. They were all eating like crap and they were trained right. So I quickly flipped my business model to sell them what they want and give them what they need about infoproducts that I was selling now became bonuses that I gifted my customers when they bought supplements.

Jeremy Reeves: Nice. I like that.

So I have a -- I have a transition. I am stretching it a little bit, but I wanted to bring it up and I am going to warn everybody that if you are still around family you may not want to be, but do you think -- we were just talking about the magic pill, right.

Do you think that that is what politicians are selling?

You know, if you think about everything going on with you know, with Hillary and doofus right.

You know Hillary and Trump you know, think about what they are selling people.

It is the magic pill.

Hey, you know, elect me and you are going to get this and this and this and this and you do not have to do anything for it because all you have to do is pay your tax is what you are doing anyway and I am going to fix all your problems for you, you know.

What are your thoughts on that and just you know, politics and kind of government in general?

Doberman Dan: That is not a stretch at all, political issues. That is totally related. Yeah. I mean I would 100% agree with that.

I think that is what -- I think that is what these guys are selling. They are selling the magic pill because they are -- I mean as far as marketers, they are smart.

Jeremy Reeves: Their marketing is insane.

Doberman Dan: Maybe not the politicians, but at least whoever their handlers are. You know, they understand the psychology of persuasion.

Listen, even the most logical amongst us wants to believe in the magic pill. There is something in us that wants to believe it even though we know it just does not exist.

And so they are offering all kinds of stuff you know and you know, we are going to take care of you, cradle the grave, healthcare is going to be free you know, we are going to make university free now, this and that is going to be free, it is going to be so much better because we are running it. Thank God we are getting the evil greedy capitalist out of this shit and you know, we are taking it over.

And people want that.

I will correct you (inaudible 15:59.0) something you said and the part of the pitch is you just keep paying your taxes, we are going to take care of -- well, half the people are not paying taxes.

So we have arrived at the point where the productive 50% are supporting those who choose to be unproductive.

Jeremy Reeves: That is a good point.

Doberman Dan: You know, here is the bottom line.

Anything that the government -- the government produces nothing. The government does not produce values.

Anything the government gives you, they have taken from somebody else and they have taken it by force, by either use of deadly force or the use of incarceration or the threat of deadly force and threat of incarceration.

So if you are taking money from the government you know, I do not see how anybody can feel good about that because what was given to you was taken away from somebody at gunpoint.

In (inaudible 17:01.6) well they have so much you know, they deserved (inaudible 17:04.6) take it from them. Really? Let us apply that to you.

I am going to show up your house with a bunch of armed guys and I am going stick my Glock 19, my sidearm of choice it is like 98.

I am going to stick it in your face or better than yet I am going to stick it in your children’s face and I am going to tell you everything. I want half of everything you got right now and if I do not get it, I am going to incarcerate you and your family or worse, I will just -- if you resist and do not go on peacefully, we are going to kill you.

Because you have so much and others have so little.

And I am not talking about people who are not capable of producing from themselves you know.

My gosh, we should help them. We personally (inaudible 17:53.5) the people. The government has no business being in that business because they screwed up. They take 99% of the money from themselves and use 1% of it to help the people who need help.

Jeremy Reeves: I am going to interrupt you really quick right there.

I just saw a thing the other day. Now this is not government, but it is just -- it is kind of the same when you are talking about like efficiency of you know, people like, oh I paid my taxes and it goes toward this and this and this and the fact is, it does not you know.

So I was just reading something the other day about Red Cross right you know, big charity everybody trust them.

Doberman Dan: For good sample.

Jeremy Reeves: Right. They got a half of billion dollars, I think it was last year. I forgot the timeframe. Just say it was last year right. Half a billion dollars and their thing is they build houses in like 3rd world countries that kind of thing right.

So half a billion right. Guess how many houses they build with it?

Doberman Dan: With the half of billion, you could build a lot of house.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. Just take a guess.

Doberman Dan: I have no idea.

Jeremy Reeves: Go on. Throw some out there.

Doberman Dan: I mean, if you are building nice solid you know, house. I mean you could build thousands of thousands with that much money.

Jeremy Reeves: Six. Six houses.

So they are building basically you know, whatever that is like 85 million dollar houses.

That is the efficiency.

You know, compare that if that money went to an entrepreneur and that was his business to be able to build houses and somehow he got compensated for that right.

There are some type of incentive to do that you know, how many you think could be build? They probably build them for -- I do not know, say $20,000 each, so that is I do not know what the hell the math is on that one. It is a lot you know.

If it is 50,000 even it is -- Jesus (inaudible 19:40.1) 10,000 or 100,000 houses versus 6 you know what I mean.

I think that goes to kind of prove the point on that you know and it is just you know, who is going to build the roads of all entrepreneurs well you know. Who is going to do this for us entrepreneurs.

And it is going to be cheaper. It is going to be more fare because there is actually competition. That is like you know, people -- that is actually another good point you know, bring it back to marketing is when people say, hey, you know, I am going to try to find an industry with no competition and it is like, no, because nobody is buying anything there you know.

Doberman Dan: That is right. There is a reason there is no competition.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. And it is good going into markets with competition because even if you are new to it, it forces you to be better, you know what I mean.

Regardless of what it is you know, someone comes out with a similar product as you. Well guess what, you got to go back to the drawing board.

You got to figure out how to make yourself better you know. That is what being an entrepreneur is all about you know.

It is not about just creating something, making money and just sitting there. It is about creating something, making money, and then going back to the beginning and saying okay, how do we make this better. How do we you know, improve our efficiency. How do we you know add more value. How do we you know, whatever. And it is just you know, people I think forget that point you know.

Have you ever had any experience with that? Like you know, as you were building some of the businesses that you have over the years, have you ever kind of come across a situation where you know, you have it, it was doing well and then all of the sudden something happened whether it is a new competitor or you know, Google banned you or you know whatever you know, something happened and you have to kind of go back to the drawing board and you know, you kind of hit that “O shit moment” and you have to go back and then kind of made everything better you know, than it were been?

Doberman Dan: All the time in every single venture I have started since 1995.

Once, the last supplement business -- the supplement business that I sold back in 2012 which I started in 2004 because of things like that, because of changes in Google AdWords and other online marketing changes that happened, like I lost half of my business overnight.

I had this dream that I am going to start some deal that after get it going and tweaked in and doing testing, I get it going good. It is just going to be smooth sailing and it is just going to keep going like it never happened.

There is always something that happens like you mentioned. Competitors coming in (inaudible 22:18.6) you know.

Advertising media being taken away, Google AdWords, I mean we have been through several versions of that.

Facebook is now -- many people are going through. I just went through that just a couple of months ago. Facebook ads are working great. Facebook ads just going to hell overnight.

Email marketing just kicking ass. All of the sudden open rates across all different platforms AWeber, Infusionsoft all these different 3rd party platforms.

Boom. Open rates cut in half. Now all of the sudden, you know, less than 50% of the people who used to get through messages are now getting them.

It happens all the time and it is still frustrating but let us take a 30,000 feet from above view on this Jeremy.

I think the reason most people become entrepreneurs even if they do not know it at that time because everybody says they get into this for the money or the lifestyle or both.

I do not really believe that is why they are in it. I think that is -- those things are serendipities.

I think the person who is attracted to this lifestyle is getting into it or even if they are not conscious of it because they want to grow as a human being and you cannot be the same -- let us say you are making a $100,000 a year now in your business and you want to make $200,000, you cannot be the same person you are now and grow your business to the point where you are making $200,000.

You have got to grown and improve as a person and all these challenges that constantly hit us as entrepreneurs and things working great all of the sudden go to pot all that stuff.

It is your self-improvement process.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah.

Doberman Dan: That is you know, I mean like, it seems like it sucks at that time. It is it biggest blessing from the universe you could ever possibly ask for.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah you know what, I think that is a good point. You know, people still you know, kind of think of the whole mindset thing.

It is like, oh well you know, mindset does not matter. It is just you know, cookie it is (inaudible 24:41.1) you know, but honestly, I have never ever, ever, ever in my life come across a person that was really successful that mindset was not the number 1 thing that they focused on you know.

It is like you need like the skills or whatever you do, but if you do not have the mindset to back it up, the ideas never even come you know. The thoughts never formed.

If you are not ready to grow when you know, shit hits the fan like you just, you crumble you know and that is why you hear a lot of entrepreneurs something happens and they just never get out of it you know, they hit that they hit the rock bottom and you know, the rock is just keep tumbling all over him versus you know the really successful entrepreneurs. They hit rock bottom all the time you know, a lot of us.

And thankfully, like as you get more -- as you get more successful it seems like the bottom is a little bit higher you know. So like I know my old failures like you know, looking at them now is like who freaking cares. It was like (inaudible 25:42.8).

Whereas now it is like, it is easier to kind of pick yourself up off the floor you know what I mean, because you you know, because you are better as a person you know. You have more skills, you have a better mindset. You can push yourself through it.

I think a lot of people you know just expecting to go smooth all the time. They expect to launch a product and it is profitable. Boom day 1 you know, like how often does that really happen.

You know, it requires testing and tweaking and then it becomes profitable and then you know, you start multiplying the profits and then guess what? Eventually, like you said, something happens and it goes back down then you got to figure out okay, you know, what happened or why it happened. How do we fix it you know.

And like you said, a lot of times, when the bad things happened that in the moment you think is like the most horrific thing ever. Like you said, it is typically like a big blessing in disguise and you can rebuild the business a lot stronger than it was because when bad things happened it reveals the weaknesses that were in the business.

So then you rebuild it with by strengthening those weaknesses so then you know, it does not happen again, hopefully.

Doberman Dan: That is so true. And the mindset is a key to all that. I have had a love-hate relationship with mindset back when I was the 9-year serial failure entrepreneur.

I got deep into all the (inaudible 27:11.3) stuff (inaudible 27:12.4) all the classic stuff. I mean constantly listening to those tapes you know, somebody got the Amway business so I was going to all those functions and you know, I was deep into it as you can get. I mean could quote chapter and verse all of the stuff you know.

Every day and (inaudible 27:29.5) I am getting better and better (inaudible 27:31.5) and all that stuff you know.

Things in my life were just not working. It was horrible and after a while I just got fed up and I am like you know, the hell with this. Let us just focus on pragmatic stuff and I learned direct response marketing and copywriting and I just put my head down and just work like a fiend and things went well because of that, but they never went really well.

I would grow things -- I would get things going that would grow really fast and I have this big successes and then you know, I would lose all my -- I have gone broke 4 times. I have gone legally bankrupt once and then completely broke another 3 -- almost 4 times but 3 times for sure broke like nothing.

And that kept happening and you know, but still I was able to persist just because of an insane work ethic and just stupid persistence like anybody in the right mind should have quit and I was keep going.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. Sometimes it helps being slightly insane.

Doberman Dan: (inaudible 28:45.9) insanity. Insanity has my vote. (inaudible 28:50.0) crazy people are the happiest so but I just always hit these brick walls until recently and I think I finally found my balance. I mean, yeah, it is mind status such a huge part of it and there is stuff that you know, I do not understand why it works that way.

First of all you feel better when you have the right mindset so that affects what you do and how you react to stuff that there is some other energy-related, quantum physics-related things going on with that too.

The past couple of years since I finally found my balance between the pragmatic but just do a whole a bunch of stuff and work like crazy. Balancing that with the right mindset the floodgates have open (inaudible 29:36.3) 21 years but you know, in most cases, one of my friend says, it is not a skill set, it is a mindset.

If you have the right mindset, you can get the skill set you need to do whatever it is you want or you can buy the skill set you need by hiring somebody else or you know, if you really got a vision, you will find people with the skill sets you need who will follow you.

So yeah, mindset is huge man.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah and you know, one of the things you are kind of talking about was the ability to just get back up you know when you are down and just the ability to push through it with just you know, (inaudible 30:21.1) determinance is that a word?

Doberman Dan: It is now.

Jeremy Reeves: Determinance, I am going to use that in email.

Remember everybody you heard it here first (inaudible 30:35.6).

Shit. Now I forgot what I was talking about.

Doberman Dan: Getting up once you get knocked down.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. Yeah. I mean it is like anything else in your life you know.

If you want to like you know, you have been into bodybuilding and the only way that your muscle grows is that if you add you know extra stimulus that is not used to and you push your body to grow.

You know if you go and you do this you know, you are curling 40 pounds every single time you go, well guess what, you are going to get strong just like -- just strong enough so your body can lift that weight comfortably you know and it is not going to get any stronger because why would it. That is all you are doing every time, but if you go into the gym every single day and every time you are pushing yourself you know, your body has to adapt and that is how you get stronger and bigger and you know, the same thing losing weight. I mean, you have to go into a deficit you know to lose weight and you know, sometimes that means being hungry you know, and you just have to say well freaking shit, I want to lose weight you know. I know I am hungry, but you know, you just kind of push through it.

I feel like a lot of you know, since the whole like (inaudible 31:40.8) talking about before you know, we started recording you know, I am all about lifestyle, but a lot of people take like they start a business and they are like, oh I want a lifestyle business.

And they think that they can do that from day 1 you know and it is just not the case you know.

You have to have that momentum first before you can have the lifestyle like you have to do like you did. It took you 21 years, but now you have the lifestyle you know.

It may take some people longer. It may take some people shorter you know. I think it is a lot easier to make money now than it was you know, back in like 90s and everything because it was you know, with just you know, online marketing methods it is so much easier to just get your you know, get your name out there.

But yeah, I mean, I think that, I think that like rugged entrepreneur mindset has vanished since the internet came out you know. What do you think about that?

Doberman Dan: Well, it seems to be vanishing in the U.S. but since to be thriving in other countries like Asia.

In fact, Dan Kennedy told me just a few weeks ago that if he were younger man and was not in the process of pretty much scaling down to retirement in the next year or so he would be completely focused on Asia because they have the mindset and the work ethic that we used to have here.

Although, you know, I should not generalized. There are still, there are still a lot of people who have it here.

Jeremy Reeves: Oh sure. Definitely.

Doberman Dan: You know, it seems to have been brainwashed out of entire generations.

Yeah. It is the persistence. It is the -- it is just getting back up when you get knocked down that I do not know man. It does look seemed to be that we have that like we used to know. It sounds like (inaudible 33:37.0) and maybe we can blame the government. I mean they have been --

Jeremy Reeves: Might as well.

Doberman Dan: (inaudible 33:45.2) they have been working really hard since about World War II to condition that mindset in the people because of their agenda.

And you know, like hey, do not worry about it you know we got to take care or take care your cradle to grave you know just get on the gravy train man. Just (inaudible 34:05.6).

And you know, so there is that safety net like for me that was not an option. There was no safety net. The option was I made this work or you know, I am literally homeless which I have been literally homeless. Thank God I have this piece of shit 10-year-old Ford Taurus to live in for about a month while I went through that, but you know, those -- I did not have any other options, so I had to get that go.

And I will say this. People asked me how did you keep doing it after so many failures for so long like 10 year, a decade of one after the other business failures you know, at least 2 to 3 years.

So the truth of the matter is every time something (inaudible 34:57.3) I give myself a certain period of time where I do the pity party thing, but then after that it is like, alright. I am done. It is now, it is now time to stop crying in my beer and get back up and go at it and jeez man even if -- even if you just are a complete screw up and do not know a damn thing just do process of elimination you will eventually stumble up or something works for you.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. It is funny. I actually do the exact same thing like whenever something goes bad or you know, I do a client project and it does not you know, turned out as we hoped for the first round or something like that and I just you know, you get that like failure feeling. Oh my God, you know, I am worthless. I am like you know, I sucked in what I do you know, you go through that whole kind of alter ego where you are just like horrible person.

I actually set like I will set a deadline so if it happen right now you know, if I got an email or something you know, it is 2:45 right now and if I got an email I would say, okay you know, like I would lock upstairs. I would be (inaudible 36:01.7) my wife would be like, Jeremy what is wrong. I would say nothing. She says something is wrong. What is wrong you know, you go through that thing. And then I would tell her and then I would say, alright, you know, what -- after like an hour you know, because the first like hour or so you just feel like (inaudible 36:14.4) and then like after like an hour it is like alright. I am giving myself a specific timeframe you know.

I am allowed to feel like hell for the next whatever it is like the rest of the day or whatever and then you know, you put on your calendar alright, now that is over. Pity party is over. Now it is back to work and we got to figure out what was wrong and how to fix it and how to you know, make sure that mistake never happens again you know.

Doberman Dan: Absolutely. You know like, you go back out in the garage and you go ahead and take down the news you put up and like okay, well.

Jeremy Reeves: So speaking of like you know, you were saying you kind of after so many failures there is just enough of them that you made that is kind of process of elimination.

What were some of the things that you know, you kind of you know, you made all the failures for how many years like a decade or whatever and then you started, I mean you are like fantastically good on what you do and you have some huge successes.

So like what was the turning point?

What was like the big kind of “Aha Moment” that you had after all the failures?

Doberman Dan: I think it was just the process. I do not think I had all the sudden flash of brilliance and thing and the dots connected.

It all came from well a couple of things. I mean in spite of really, really bad conditioning, I just knew it just made logical sense if 1 human being can do something then even if I am not as smart as them not as good looking, I do not have any money, I can do the same thing, maybe better.

So that kept me going, but you know what it was, it was getting back up after getting knocked down. I mean if you just keep getting up to bat and swing it at that thing with all your might you know, eventually, you are going to get a hit and you know, in some people if I have led people to believe this then I apologize, but you know, some people think after certain number of years who just well you have got it nailed and everything you do is a home run now.

It is still like 8 out of every 10 swings at that ball is a complete strike out you know.

It is just that continuing to get up to bat to go through the numbers you got to go through to get to the homerun or you know heck. You can make a really great career out of base hits.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. Lot of people do.

Yeah. It is actually funny because the playoffs you know on right now. I always watch the -- my wife loves the Red Sox so I always watch whenever they are in the playoffs. So I always watch it with her and they just lost actually and you know, David Ortiz retired and you know, Big Puppy.

And he was you know, one of the best players they have had in a long, long time and you know, his average was I do not know what it is exactly, but it was roughly you know, .3 which means that guess what. He went up to bat 10 times, he only got on base 3 out of 10 and he was like one of the most famous baseball players right now you know what I mean.

He is like an absolute rockstar for 3 out of 10 and you know, it’s -- that is I think how most entrepreneurs are.

And there are a lot of ways I think to increase that like if you know, if you already have a big influence in your industry and you are launching a new product that you have done surveys, you have done all the research to figure out that they definitely want it that kind of thing like you are going to improve your chances, but you know, when you are coming out a new stuff, I mean it is you know, like I was telling the client the other day.

You know, I was kind of talking to them about it and I said you know, if every entrepreneur hit not even a homerun but -- even minimally successful with everything they did, everybody in the world would be an entrepreneur you know what I mean.

Like the only -- like you have to be an entrepreneur if you are willing to get punch in the face and then you know, kicked a couple of times while you are down and then stand back up and then have like 3 more people punch you in the face you know and then have a truck run over you while you are on the ground and go through that you know for years and then be able to stand up on your own you know.

I think that it is just --

Doberman Dan: That is a good analogy because that is how I feel sometimes.

Jeremy Reeves: It does. Like you said, even now you know, even people who are successful. I think it is something that a lot of people do not share is like a lot of people are not vulnerable enough and you know, but we all go through it you know, I do. You do. Every successful person does. Dan Kennedy you know, I am sure he has been doing it for you know, like 400 years now you know, like we said before, he is one of the most you know, well-known marketers that is probably ever lived and I am sure he still has a ton of promotions that bomb you know what I mean.

Doberman Dan: He does.

Jeremy Reeves: And you just you know, you go back to the drawing board and you find out why it failed and then you redo it and then you find out why the second one failed and then you know, you redo it and then you just keep doing that until it wins you know.

It is kind of the name of the game.

Doberman Dan: It is the name of the game. I think too many people who give up too soon you know, the problem is do not compare your backstage to somebody else’s frontstage.

So in our -- we got a weird world that we live in Jeremy.

This internet marketing world -- right now I guess this would be considered my frontstage okay.

I am on an interview and you know we are talking about my experience and my successes and stuff and I used to go to these interviews and I would think (inaudible 42:08.0) I mean this guy is making a billion dollars a minute with everything he does you know.

I can barely pay my bills and well you know, there we go. That is comparing your backstage with the person’s frontstage.

When you are seeing somebody on stage in situations like this and they are talking about their successes most are not going to mention all the stuff that just went horribly wrong and it was bad because it is still I mean you never -- sorry if I am discouraging anyone, you never reach a point where it is just like -- Oh I am now successful, it will be smooth sailing from here.

Now, as long as you are building something it is going to be like for every 7, 8, 9 times up to bat it strikeout or for every 100 times off the bat 99 times are strikeout you know, 100 times of base hit you know, it’s good base hit. You get (inaudible 43:07.8) but that is just the real world man.

So do not feel bad if you are in the middle of that. That is like perfectly normal. You are right on track just -- if you have been feeling bad it is probably because you are comparing you backstage to some other (inaudible 43:24.0) frontstage.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah and I can tell your Dan Sullivan’s fan with the frontstage and backstage.

I know exactly what you are talking about.

And actually another thing that he talks about before we wrap here -- another thing he talks about is the gap you know.

I do not know if you are familiar with that concept, but basically, you know, when you are like when you look at yourself and you are actually doing pretty good you know. You are making a decent income. You are hitting some you know, successes. You know, you are chugging along and you are looking at all your competitors and everyone else who is doing better than you and you are making yourself feel like hell.

First of all, I mean that is normal, it is human nature. We are always going to compare ourselves to others you know.

You are going to feel better if you do not do that, but it is a lot easier said than done.

I even find myself doing that sometimes you know.

I can -- I have kind of train myself to catch it so it does not happen very long. It is kind of like a couple minute kind of thing anymore, but if you just change the frame of it and rather than comparing yourself to what you want to be right. Like comparing like you are the middle here and there is the past behind you and there is a future in front.

Rather than comparing yourself to where you want to be so like say you are making $100,000 a year now you want to make a million right, huge gap in between there.

Compare yourself to what you used to be you know like you, you know. Compare yourself to like when you are going through you know, some of the bad times. Compare yourself to the worse times when you were you know, broke and living in the car and right now like if you compare it to your past it is going to -- you are going to feel like royalty even in your worst spot you know, rather than comparing to you know, where everyone else is and there is just that huge gap between that and it makes you feel horrible you know.

And then you know, it kills your creativity. You cannot focus. Like you just -- you kind of get in that like depressive state and it is hard to climb out of that you know.

So it is just about shifting your focus I think.

Doberman Dan: Yeah. It goes back to mindset too.

The gap in the (inaudible 45:33.5) was a huge epiphany for me that you know.

Anybody that is profession is tendencies like I do which by the way is just that is not noble. Being (inaudible 45:46.2) is not noble. It is a form of self hate and it is just pure torture. I mean you would not tweak your worst enemy like that, but anyway, those of us who have been cursed for whatever reason with the profession as tendencies are always looking at the gap and again comparing our backstage to somebody’s frontstage and look at the gap like, oh man I wanted to make (inaudible 46:12.2) much money. I wanted this size of business and I am only here.

Man you are really beating yourself up. Why don’t you turn around every now and then and look where you are now from where you came from and that might be a huge revelation to you.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. Absolutely. Well said.

Well hey. I know we got -- we both going to hop off here in a minute here, but you know, before we jump off. Two things. Number 1, if there is anything that you know, you got on this podcast and you kind of had in your mind that you have some kind of big insight that you wanted people to know. Let everyone know before you know, before we wrap up if I forgot to ask you question or there is just something that is like burning inside you that you just kind of what everybody to know.

If you have anything like that and then secondly, tell everyone where they can you know, hear more about you and kind of get onto your list and just you know, listen to your shenanigans and help them grow their business and all that kind of fun stuff.

Doberman Dan: Well thanks for the opportunity to do both those things. It is kind of funny Jeremy. Initially, I had the intention that I was going to talk about some recent revelations breakthroughs that I have had in -- as far as marketing goes, but it was all mechanics stuff you know. It was like this type of funnel and marketing versus this type. I kind of -- not kind of. I mean I had it on my head to talk about that, but you took it in a direction --You are a good interviewer man.

You took it into the direction that I was not prepared for, but I believe you know, based on 30 years experience now as a serial entrepreneur, it was something way more important than the mechanics. I was initially going to talk about it.

So I would say now that if I am going to leave somebody with something I would say this.

You are not broken. You are as good or better than anybody else.

If anybody has done (inaudible 48:19.8) like if you think what I have done is pretty cool. Oh trust me. My dear listener. This is nothing that you cannot do. I can with 100% -- I would bet every penny I have that you can do it and I think Jeremy is the one who dug up the key to making that happen.

This interview today, you have dug up the key to making that happened and that is just to continue to get up time after time no matter hard they knocked you down. You just continue to get up.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. Absolutely you know. One thing I would like to add to that is do not look at this you know, because I think what we covered today and I know like we you know, have the conversation before we started and we were going to talk about like totally different stuff, but you know, and that is why I do interviews like this. That is why I do not script questions because a lot of times you just get on the path and it is just the right path you know.

I think this is way more valuable than if we talk about like oh you know, what is the last 3 split test that won for you and you know. What is the -- how do you write better headlines or whatever.

The one thing that I kind of wanted just to expand on is do not look at everything especially the gap I would say.

Do not look at everything just in terms of business. Apply it to all of your life right. Apply to it your health. Apply it to your relationships with your wife or your husband. Apply it to how your parenting you know. Apply it to if you are spiritual you know, your spiritual practice or your religious practice whatever you are into you know.

Look at how -- because we all you know, we all want to grow especially entrepreneurs you know, we all have like you said before. We all have that drive to get better you know, that is what makes us entrepreneurs.

So get better you know and get better without guilt you know, God, that is a good headline you know.

Doberman Dan: I am going to totally swipe (inaudible 50:19.7).

Jeremy Reeves: But honestly because you know, we all feel guilty if we have not hit our goals in the timeframe that we want to hit them in right.

So rather than doing that you know, look at your life and say well where was I before you know and how much progress have I made in my health, in my relationships, in my whatever my slip, my revenue, my parenting you know, whatever it is.

Look at that and it just puts you on such a better mind frame you know and I have got to train my wife even like when I get in mood like this because you know, I am like you, I am kind of perfectionist not really in terms of -- I kind of (inaudible 50:55.5) in certain things like in results you know what I mean.

And she can tell like instantly when something bad happened and I am in one of those moods and I have kind of like trained her to say like alright well you know, what happened before this. Where were you before you know. Are you better than you were then and you know, the answer is almost always yes because it is just constant improvement you know in all the areas in my life you know.

I think if everybody looks at their life in those you know, in that frame it just makes you a lot happier and being happier and being more creative and just like kind of mentally you know free I guess makes you therefore a better entrepreneur, a better husband, a better father, a better I do not know maybe not health, but although actually yeah because you know, your mood affects what you eat a lot you know.

That is kind of the final thing I would like to add in there.

So before we head off. Where can everybody learn more about you?

Doberman Dan: Well the best place to get into my world is my website, at dobermandan.com and if anybody wants to they can -- I have been publishing a print newsletter delivered the way God intended newsletters to be delivered and paid for an ink. Why I get old fashion postal mail.

So for 6 years I have been publishing that. It is a paid newsletter, but I will give people a free PDF version in one of my newsletters at dobermandan.com and I also have a podcast called Off The Chain With Doberman Dan that you can find on iTunes and I would just be thrilled if you show up occasionally and listen to me running my mouth on my podcast.

Jeremy Reeves: Sounds good and you know, like always, those links will be in the show notes. So do not even you know, you do not even have to try to remember it, just click the link on the show notes and you will go right there and yeah.

Well, hey man, it was a pleasure not only catching up, but being able to share our conversation with everybody else. It is a -- I think that is one of the things I love about being able to you know, interview people is that you know, you can learn from some amazing people and you know, improve your own skills, why you are helping everybody else you know.

I think it is kind of an awesome.

Doberman Dan: Well thanks for the invitation. I had fun Jeremy. I appreciate it.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. Sounds good. We will talk to you soon and thanks again.

Doberman Dan: Thank you.

Nov 23 2016

53mins

Play

Rank #11: The 10-Step Personal Coach Email Campaign Template

Podcast cover
Read more

In this episode, I had a beer and was feeling generous so I decided to walk you through one 10-step template we use for client work, called the "personal coach campaign".

This is a campaign designed to create loyal, raving customers and help them get better results from whatever it is you sell, plus upsell them to your other products and services. It's something that 98%+ of businesses are missing but 100% of you need!

Once again get your pen and paper handy. It's a doozy!

Resources Mentioned

* http://www.Kinowear.com

Want To Work With Me?

Visit http://www.JeremyReeves.com or email me at Jeremy@JeremyReeves.com

Enjoy!

Transcript

Hey everyone, this is Jeremy Reeves here with another episode of the Sales Funnel Mastery. I am here in Pennsylvania, I am always in Pennsylvania. I am here in Philadelphia, there we go. My brain is partially functioning today. I am here in Philadelphia. I am here down here for strategic coach who come down once a quarter.

So I just got a good work at him. I now have a nice strong beer in front of me, it is a Stegmaier Octoberfest which if you are in -- if you ever get to see it, if you are in it, it is kind of a local beer from -- it is actually brewed about 10 minutes from my house, but if you ever get up into the northeast Pennsylvania area you should definitely try it. It is a really good Octoberfest if you are into you know, craft beer and things like that.

So what I want to talk about today, I am actually if you guys do not know yet, I am in the middle of writing a book, right. So that is kind of awesome. I am really excited about it. We are actually -- we are about, we are roughly halfway done. I just started in the end of December. So it is now the very beginning of February, but halfway done and I am expecting to finish it within the next 2 weeks or so.

So if anybody is out there and has been writing a book for like years, I think you are absolutely insane. It really does not take as long as you think it does. So what I am doing is actually, I am taking, not all the chapters can land themselves well to this, but I am taking out some of the chapters and I am actually recording it you know, as a podcast and you know, things like that, okay. So only really a couple of -- I like that but it is kind of a cool way of you know, 2 birds in 1 stone.

So what we are going to talk about today is your buyer’s campaign, it is a personal coaching campaign is what I called them, right.

Personal coaching campaigns are essentially you know, I have built, oh my God, I do not even know how many funnels, dozens and dozens and dozens, I do not know, hundreds, I don’t even know, but you know, we have gotten you know, whatever, around $50m in results for our clients and all these good things, right.

One of the things that I have noticed and this does not go just you know, so you do not feel guilty, this is not just for people with businesses just starting out. I have seen 7-figure businesses really lack on this and what they are lacking in is taking care of their buyers, right.

I mean, I cannot even remember the last time that I took on a project for a 7-figure client and they actually had a very specific buyer sequence in place. That is how bad this is, right. It is the absolutely ludicrous because they are the people that are paying you money. Everybody focuses -- I talked about this all the time -- everybody focuses on the people who have not given the money yet which is just freaking nuts. I just do not understand that. I mean, it is kind of like you know, you have, you know it is kind of like being out in the bar and you are trying to pick up a girl and there are 5 girls sitting you know, like in the, whatever, in a row or whatever and obviously if you are girl same thing for guys.

So there are 5 girls sitting in the bar and you are going up, you are trying to talk to them. Well, 4 of them are like get away from me, you know, you are fat you are ugly, you know, I do not want to talk to you, you know, you are bothering me, right. And then the 5th one is like, Oh, yeah, hey, you know, she is just as pretty and gorgeous as all the other ones and she is like, Oh, yeah, hey, you know, come sit with us, you know, sit next to me, let’s talk.

It is basically the equivalent of you going back to the 4 girls and trying to talk to them even though you have number 5 talking to you already and interested in you, okay. That is how insane this is. So hopefully, that kind of makes it clear.

So what you do -- I am going to actually take you through. We have a little bit of a templated system for writing buyer’s emails for our clients and I call it the Personal Coach Campaign because what you are doing when you make this sequence is you just sold them something to get them some type of result. They want to get that result. So this campaign is dedicated to helping them get that result. That is really a simple as it is, okay.

And then there is other things in there that we will talk about, but essentially, you are just trying to help them get that result that they want because most people, when they buy your product or your service are not going to actually use your product or your service, okay.

So this campaign is to try to spur them in the action to try to get them the results of that they are looking for, okay.

So basically, it goes like this.

The first email, it is just kind of like a thanks, you know. Typical thanks email. There are a lot of different ways you can write it. I like to add a lot of personality into it, but these are fairly you know, they are pretty easy to write. It is kind of like thanks, you know, your order will be shipped out, here is your credit card, you know, your credit card will be shown as this and all the typical stuff. So that is kind of the immediate email, okay.

And then emails number 2 and 3. This is only in roughly 10-day period. So emails 1, 2 and 3 are within the first roughly 10 days or so, okay.

Email number 2 is essentially what to expect, okay. So it is kind of a prepped and this is, this is kind of you know, one thing to keep in mind is do not take this with a grain of salt because everything is different, alright.

How am I going to say this is kind of like if you are sending physical products, but if you have SaaS business it is going to be basically your client on boarding sequence. It is going to be getting them to actually use the product because in SaaS there is a million study showing that people who do not -- you know, the faster people use your software, the longer your attention is going to be, okay.

So you have to have these systems in place that on board the client gets them to use whatever it is that you are selling, whatever software as fast as possible, but it is the same thing if you are selling a physical product. It is the same thing if you are selling an information product. It is the same thing if you are selling a service.

I have something like this that I do with my clients it is not like a 10 step sequence because I am talking to them one on one, but we just put in a new client on boarding system that essentially, instead of -- it is basically the same thing of what to expect, you know, you are prepping them for to get the results to do the business with you, okay.

So in email #2, it is basically what to expect prepping them for what is to come and reminding them of something that can give them better results.

So whatever your next upsell is you are reminding say, Hey, by the way, you know, if you have not seen it yet go check out this if you are looking for -- if you are, you know, if you are go getter, if you are a high achiever then go and get, go take a look at this, it is going to help you get better results easier. It is guaranteed, you know. All the various kind of copy tricks that you would normally put in email. That is email #2.

And obviously, there is you know, we can go through template and template and template of each of these. This is just kind of a basic summary of each email.

Number 3 and again, this is would be send on roughly the 10th day. Again, that is going to change depending your business, okay. Is what to do now that you have it. So you know, again, they might have it instantly so maybe you want to put this one second and just skip that second email, okay.

Again, you have to be able to take this template and customize this to your business and that is why people do things like funnel days. That is why people hire us because we can do that for them.

So anyway, so email number 3 is what to do now that you have it for better results. So it is kind of like we usually do 3 tips, you know, that is kind of our sometimes there is more, sometimes less, but for example, we just did one for a supplement, right and it was like for any kind of supplement, you want them to basically get in better overall health.

So you put tips in there like, Hey, you know, as you are starting this also make sure that you are, you know, number 1 sleeping more, drinking more, eating better, exercising, you know whatever the case maybe, make sure that -- we always do something with habits because if it is something that you are prospect or client has to use, you need to get them in the habit of using it and that is really, really, really important and I cannot overstate it what I just said. So go back and you know, hit the little arrow that goes back 30 seconds to listen that again.

You have to get your clients and customers into a habit of using your product or your service okay.

Number 4, 5, 7, and 9 you know, and again, roughly okay. Kind of these middle emails. A lot of these are basically just using proof in different ways to then tell a story or transition into overcoming some type of objection to get them to the next step, okay.

So maybe you want to use -- so number 4 maybe use a case study. So you tell a story about a guy you know, you can say, Hey, you know, Mark was one of our clients and you know, 6 months ago he was you know, hundred pounds overweight and you know, his doctor told him that his liver was failing and yada, yada, yada, yada he was going to die and then you know, he came to us and he said, ‘hey what can you do to help me?’ and we told him about this thing and how it, you know, how it changes your whatever, it changes your metabolism, it does this and this and this. Whatever the case maybe.

So you tell a story that is wrapped in a case study. So it is a case study/story, okay. So you don’t -- it is not a testimonial. I want to make that clear. It is not a testimonial. It is a longer case study. Maybe think about it like 1 to 2 pages.

So you are essentially just telling story about someone else in their position that got over you know, that got the result, got a better result by taking the next step which is whatever your next upsell is, okay. I hope it make sense.

Email number 5 is roughly the same thing okay, by the way, emails number 4, 5, and 6, okay. So emails number 1, 2, and 3 are roughly in the first Sundays. Emails number 4, 5, and 6 are like number is going to go out on day 30, okay. So the first 6 emails are in the, you know, 30 days. This is a 60-day campaign just so you know. So we are at number 5 here, again, some type of proof which transitions to overcome an objection to the next step, okay. And again, it could be a case study. I mean, there is a lot of different you know, there is a lot of different forms of proof, okay. Pick one of them find something to back it up and then talk about it, you know. And that is again, if you need somebody to do it that is why you hire you know, somebody like us because we can do that easily.

Email number 6 so that is 4 and 5 are basically using proof to overcome the objection which you know, to transition, to get them to take action to the next step, okay.

Email number 6, again, roughly is 30 days and essentially this is the check in, you know. Hey, how you doing, you know you have it for 30 days, do you have any questions, is there any way we can help you, you know, did you get any results yet. If you have, then shoot them over to us. We would love to help you and get even better results and then by the way, when you reply then you say, hey, if you want to get better results we have this other thing for you.

It is not to do it in like a weird way, it’s to do it if it is going to help them, okay.

I have to reiterate that because a lot of people are going to do this just to sell something and that is so -- it is just such a wrong mindset. So you are only going to offer them something if it is going to truly help them, okay. Do not offer it to them if it is not -- if you do not believe in your heart that it is really not going to help them because it is unethical and it is just you know, morally wrong. So don’t do it.

Number 6 again is 30-day check in.

Number 7 again same thing as 4 and 5 just proof which transitions to overcome an objection to the next step.

Number 8 is a referral request. So, Hey, you know, if you have enjoyed everything you have seen so far, if you have gotten results, if you have used our software and you love it you know, why don’t you share it with a friend and then you go into the benefits of why they should share it with their friends okay.

Referrals have to be written in a kind of certain way to really be effective. You cannot just say -- most people when they are writing referrals, they kind of just say, Hey, you know, why don’t you refer us to your friends because we want more business and you know, it is like the worst pitch in the world.

Essentially, what you have to say is, Hey, you know, we can create a win-win-win here. If you talk to us about your friends, number 1 you win because if you have ever told a friend about a restaurant or movie or a new kind of widget and they tried it and they loved it you know how happy that made you feel to help your friend to solve a problem or have fun or whatever the -- you know, be happy, right.

So it makes you feel great to help your friend. It also helps your friend because they get helped to you know, solve the same solution that you did and you guys could even collaborate on it, you can talk about it together, so to try to form like a little tiny community there, get them talking about you, okay.

And then the third win is that we win because we are able to serve one of our favorite customers and you know, we like to attract customers like our customers, you know. We like to attract -- we like to go out and find our best customers and then find people like them because we know that if you are doing everything that we are telling you, if you actually getting results that means that you are somebody that we truly respect and we know that you are probably hanging around with other people that are similar to you, okay.

So in that type of language, right and that is your referral request and that is somewhere in the range of day like 45 or so.

Number 9 is the same thing as emails 4, 5, and 7 and that is basically proof which transitions to overcome an objection to the next step, okay.

So another case study is good here. I like to kind of do the first one of these as a case study. The middle two or some type of -- some type of like media proof like a scientific study or maybe somebody in the media talk about you or your method of doing things or whatever it is. Some type of proof outside of the company, okay that adds authority to you.

And then email number 10 is a testimonial request. So you kind of set it up as, ‘hey’ -- and you can actually have -- in my, I own Kinowear, the website that shows guys how to dress better, right. So one of the things that we do -- we have not automated this yet, I really should. Kinowear is kind of my redheaded step child, it is you know, so again I always talk about why you should do all these things. Do not feel bad if you do not do all these things because I -- you know, I do funnels for a living on a daily basis. Every single day I wake up and do funnels.

And I have my own side business and we are still working on the funnels. So you know, just because that side business is you know, a tiny fraction of you know, the revenue that my consulting business brings in. So we do not put that much attention on it, you know. The case is or the fact is, you should have some type of testimonial request and so we do it roughly once a quarter. It is not automated in that business basically because I am lazy. There is really no other you know, there is no other excuse. I am just being lazy but you can easily automate this and what we do is instead of just saying, Hey, why don’t you send us a testimonial because I mean nobody response to that, you say, you give them something right. So you can give them some type of upgrade, you can give them a free bonus, you can give them a gift certificate off of an another purchase, you know.

One of the clients we are working with now is doing an Amazon gift card give away, you know, so when they, you know, actually that is set up in a different way but what you can do with that idea is send them to a giveaway and do maybe a month later or a quarterly giveaway were everybody who sends in their testimonials over that quarter can then join the giveaway and then they have a chance to win whatever it is right.

And I am actually doing testimonial for somebody tonight actually, probably or tomorrow morning for strategic coach that is actually, exactly what they are doing is you make a video testimonial, you send it in and then they are choosing -- I think it is, I do not know, 3 or 5 people to have a consultation with Dan Sullivan personally, you know, which is the founder of strategic coach.

So that is another way that you can do it you know, but again, it is -- you do not position this as Hey, help us. You always have to and this comes back to just copy you know, copy strategy is you cannot write it in a way that is hey, do this because it is going to help us. You have to write it in a way that is saying, ‘here is what’s in it for you’.

So in the terms of a testimonial you know, they are kind of annoying. You have to go out of your way to do this especially video testimonials. So you say, ‘hey not only are we going to give you X, you know, also you are going to help people, you know, I am sure you care about other people that have been and you know’, you throw all the guilt trippin’ here. You can say I am sure that you, you know, do you remember what it was like you know, before you came to us and we helped you, you know.

And then you could say something like, you know, there are you know, thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of other people that are in the situation that you used to be in and this is your chance to actually help them.

The reason that you are going to help them is because if you send in a testimonial, it is going to give them the confidence to move forward. It is going to give them the confidence to do business with us which is going to help them get the result they need and you can feel, you can feel you know, proud of the fact that you were able to help you know, you were able to help influence the you know, their decision of thousands of people over the next couple of years and change their life indirectly, you know, something like that, I mean I am just saying this on top off top of my head obviously if we wrote it, it would be a lot more concise and you know, written better but that is essentially the message that you are trying to get across.

So that is it, if you are going to -- basically, if you have if you are selling anything, you should have a buyer’s sequence in place, right.

And so one of the things that I am doing for one client now is we are doing a 2-phase funnel. So we just wrapped up phase 1 and he does not have his backend yet. We actually did a funnel day to help him, to figure out ideas for his backend because he is doing really, really well on the frontend, okay and then -- but he does not have backend and you know, and he said, okay, you know, let us get it on the funnel day to figure out how to make more money. So the first thing I said, was 'okay, you need a backend'. So we spend I think it was about 2 hours of the funnel day figuring out exactly what he was going to sell you know.

So yeah, anyway, so that is it. I hope you enjoyed this. I hope you will share it with your friends because it is going to make you feel good, remember? I hope you share it with your friends. I hope you leave us a review and if you have any questions, comments, support@jeremyreeves.com if you want to work with us, if you want to -- if you have any questions about any of our products or you know, anything like that, if you need help in any way just shoot us an email, support@jeremyreeves.com if it is relevant, if my staff cannot answer it they will forward it to me or if you want to talk about you know, doing a project together then obviously they will forward it to me and yeah. I hope this helped you and I will talk to you soon.

Feb 25 2016

21mins

Play

Rank #12: Using Metrics To Catapult Your Business Growth - Safely

Podcast cover
Read more

In today's episode we dive into one of those "bland yet unbelievably important" topics - metrics. Metrics are the LIFEBLOOD of your business yet probably 10% or less of companies really track them properly and use them to grow their business effectively. In this episode I'll show you exactly what metrics to track, how, and how to use the data to skyrocket your business growth.

Listen To The Podcast

[powerpress]

Resources Mentioned

AdWords

Want To Work With Me?

Visit http://www.JeremyReeves.com or email me at Jeremy@JeremyReeves.com

Enjoy!

Transcript

Hey, what is going on guys, Jeremy Reeves here with another episode of the sales funnel mastery podcast.

And today, we are going to talk about something really exciting and that is Metrics. We all love numbers right.

So Metrics are the lifeblood of your business you know. There are so many businesses out there that do not understand their metrics and honestly one of the big you know, the big factors -- I mean talked to a lot of people everywhere you know, from people that are kind of just you know in the low 6 figure range all the way up to $300M companies, right.

I am actually working doing a project for Agora right now. I am trying to be one of their controls that is bringing -- actually, I am not allowed to say confidentiality wise the numbers, but basically, it is many, many, many, many, many hundreds of thousands per month you know, kind of call that.

So one of the big determining factors or one of the big differences that I see when I am talking to various levels of business owners is and I can see kind of how savvy they are as business owners. It is how well they understand their metrics, right.

So I have talked to some clients and you know, usually, when I talk to people the first questions that I start asking are you know, how much are you getting per lead you know, what is your cost per click. What is your cost per lead. What is your conversion rate. What is your like on your opt in page. what is your conversion rate on your sales page. What is your you know, average order value. What is your average customer lifetime value you know, all of these metrics are really, really important because if you look at business, all business is money in versus money out, right. That is really what it comes down. Money in versus money out.

If you are bringing in more money than you are spending, it is a good business. If you are -- you know, obviously that is relative. If you are spending more money than you are making, it is you know, you are not in a good situation and even with that, and I am sure everybody listening to this can agree of how important that is to know that because mean, you know, it is literally you know, it is kind of like you know, your health and you have no idea what is going on with your health. I mean, obviously, that is a bad situation you know, and that is when you get into trouble.

And you know, even with that, I am sure everyone listening can agree on that, that metrics are like one of the single most important things that you need to know in your business, and yet, very few people actually know them you know.

Think about your business, do you have a spreadsheet you know, calculating all of your various metrics in your business or at least something like analytics showing you, you know, the visitors you are getting, your conversion rates, you know, analytics can track all that on your website you know, things like that. If you are doing Facebook or AdWords, are you really tracking everything that you are doing so you know exactly what is working, exactly what keywords are working, what are not working, that kind of thing.

So I give you a couple of examples here. So I had a lady, she had a dog training business and she came to me and she is like you know, it is not working, I do not know what is going on, blah, blah, blah, you know, I bought this business and you know, it is not really you know, I do not know if this is the case, but I felt like she felt like the person who sold it to her kind of gave her like a crappy business.

It actually turns out, I actually sat with her and I you know, we put the numbers together and it actually turned out that the business was freaking phenomenal, right.

She was getting -- and this is with like pretty much no marketing experience just handed to her. She was getting 9 times ROI on her ad spent, but she did not know that because she was not tracking things properly you know and it is a huge mistake but it is so, so common that it is unbelievable.

You know, most business owners unless -- anybody under 7 figures it is almost rare for people to really, really, really, really have a really solid grasp of their metrics and the funny thing is, it is almost impossible to go above 7 figures if you do not know your metrics.

So it is kind of a weird you know, irony there.

So that is one thing. Another thing is that I am working with another client and I just had a meeting with him yesterday and you know, the topic was okay, you know, how do we keep you know, how do we continue to improve things. How do we continue to improve our metrics.

And one of the things that I said was, I said, okay, and their businesses is a little bit complex because they are bringing leads in for 1 business and they get a certain dollar amount for those leads, but then they are also using those leads in another one of their businesses.

So it is kind of -- it is more complex than you know, than the average kind of business and then there are also selling leads you know, that kind of thing. So there is a lot of different factors in play here, but I am going to try and keep it simple.

What I said was okay, you know, for the average customer that comes to your doors, how much are they worth to you, you know, long term and they said, well, kind of depends. And also another kind of wrinkle in here is they have an online and an offline funnel. So the funnels had different metrics, so the offline I think was worth $130 a lead or a customer and the online worth $180 or might be -- it does not really matter.

So I said, alright, let us at least you know, I do not think we are going to get this perfect, but let us at least get kind of the baseline, right. Let us at least get an estimate and say, okay, you know, let us just say that you know, they are worth $150 on average, at least, it is better than nothing you know, it is not a perfect kind of thing, but let us just say $150. Let us also put in a little bit of buffer in there, so let us just say, you know, they have to be worth you know, $130 or so to kind of be worth it to continue you know, getting those leads.

So essentially, what I said was, okay, let us pick a number, let us just say it is $150, I forget the numbers off on top of my head. I deal with a lot of different businesses, so I have all kinds of different metrics going on in my head right now.

So let us just say it was $150 just for you know, just for argument sake here.

So I said, alright, your average person’s worth $150, right. Now, what is your allowable cost per new customer, right. So how much do you want to profit because you do not want to spend $150 you know, to then make $150 over time. You are essentially just you know, getting a zero return and you are not even getting it back for like the next you know, a couple of months or year or whatever it is.

So let us just say we brought it down to you know $120, right. So the allowable cost is $120 to then make $150 in whatever the next 6 months or so, right. So they are making $30 you know, essentially, you know, 20% ROI over a 6-month period. Not great stats, but they are doing a lot of volume, so it is a little bit different when they are doing a volume (inaudible 7:32.1).

So I said, alright, so you are able to spend $120 per you know, customer that you bring in the door. So let us now look at your advertising and figure out what is working and what is not.

So we have your allowable cost per new customer, is $120, right. So I said, alright, their main advertising was AdWords, right, which makes it easy.

So I said, alright, let us now look at all of your keywords because your average -- I think her average was, I think it was $130 something like that, let us just say it was $130. So I said, alright, so if your average cost per new customers $130 that means that you have some keywords that you are probably getting new customers for you know $30 or $50 and you have other keywords that are probably going upwards of $200 to acquire new customer and what we are going to do is take that $120 right, and have a little bit of a buffer, but essentially anybody -- any keyword that it is costing more than $120 to acquire new customer we ditched them. We removed them and then all of the ones that were under $120 especially the lower ones, we are going to ramp them up as high as we can that way you can keep a similar volume right, you spend for the customers that are really profitable, we are going to go up a little bit but you are also getting rid of all of the customers that were not profitable, right.

So it is going to even out. So now you are actually going to end up spending much less money probably around 25% less, but you are still getting a similar amount of volume, right.

So your actual profit is 25% higher, obviously, you know, those are -- we literally just started this yesterday. So those are not real numbers. Those are just you know, kind of estimated numbers, but you know, that is what happens when you really understand your metrics, you can do things like that, like when you know, okay, I need to get leads in for $2 because I know that you know, one in ten leads is going to convert and -- just say one in twenty leads is going to convert 5% conversion rate and that means that, what is that, I forget the numbers.

I just finished up sending an appeal letter to the IRS, my brain is a little bit funky. They are trying to screw me up (inaudible 10:05.6) for something that was their fault, but anyway, so you know, we are getting leads for $2 each, one in twenty convert that means that is a 5% conversion rate that means that you are getting a new customer for $40 right.

So if you know that, then all you have to do is find advertising where you can find customers for less than $40 right. That is it, and maybe you know, whatever your numbers are maybe that customer is worth $80 over the next 3 months or 6 months or whatever it is, but all you really need there is your -- you have to know first of all what your lifetime customer value is and you have to define that.

So you can do -- I like to do a short term and a long term. So I like to do typically what is the customer worth in the first 30 days right because that is short term. I mean, you can -- most people can afford to you know, kind of have that cash flow going in 30 day periods right, without you know, drying up your bank.

And then I also like to look long term. So long term is very, very, very different for some people you know or for everybody you know. For smaller companies let us just say under 7 figures, that might -- long term might be 3 months right or maybe 6 months, depends on how much cash flow you have, depends on how profitable you are already.

For bigger companies so for you know, a couple of 100 million dollar companies for 8 figure companies even, you might stretch that out to 6 months or 12 months or 2 years or you know, some companies, they gauge their lifetime customer value over like a 5-year period right, but that is when you get into the really high number.

So let us just say that your short term is 30 days and your long term is just say 3 months right. So what is -- let us do 6 months actually because that is a little bit more realistic.

So alright, so what is your customer worth in the first 30 days, okay. So figure that number out then what are they worth in the first 6 months and what you will find is that if your new customer is worth and again, these are just hypothetical numbers, they are going to vary drastically in all different industries, all different businesses, I am just kind of throwing this out there.

So let us just say that your new customer is worth I do not know, $50 in the first 30 days, okay, but after 6 months, they are worth $100 right. So what you have to look at is okay, well, to be able to scale my business I can then spend $50 to acquire new customer because I know that I am getting that back in the first 30 days then you essentially break even on that customer the first 30 days.

Now the goal, I mean typically, when I do this, I try to break even on the first like 48 hours, but I am just using 30 days just you know, just a simple exam.

I like to typically and again, this depends on the client. It depends on your business. It depends on the goal of the you know, campaign that you are doing you know, because there is all different types of campaigns. There is lead generation campaigns. There is audience awareness campaigns. There is profit campaigns which is usually going back to customers. So there is all these different things to consider.

So then you say, okay, you know, so you know, and I have this advertising. I know that I am making $50 per customer in the first 30 days, but I am also making $100 in the first 6 months so is it worth it you know, then you have to look at -- so you have your lifetime customer value for 30 days and 6 months or 12 months whatever you want to do then you say, okay, so what I am willing to spend to get that customer. I know that they are worth $50 in the first 30 days and $100 in the first 6 months, okay and it is only going to increase in there, so they might be worth $200 in the first 2 years or whatever.

So then you have to say, okay, well, what ROI do I want. What is my allowable cost. So, maybe, if you are in a good cash flow situation, maybe you can do spend $50 to acquire the new customer and just break even in the first 30 days knowing that you are going to double your ROI you know, over the next 6 months right.

If you are kind of bootstrapping a little bit more you might say, okay, we are going to only focus on -- we are going to get super, super, super laser targeted and I can spend $30 to make in the first 30 days right, knowing that they worth $50, so you are going to essentially profit $20 per customer in the first 30 days and then $100 over the next 6 months, but you have to figure out your allowable cost and that is a little bit different for everybody, it depends on your risk level, it depends on your available cash flow, it depends on what advertising you are actually using. So all these different factors, right.

The whole point of this is that you have to know these numbers, right. So if you do not know these numbers that is the first thing that you should do.

Now if you are just starting you do not have to worry about it too much because you kind of have to find you know, your bigger play -- if you are in you know, the lower 6 figures like you know, just say 0 to I do not know $2 or $300,000, I would focus on a little bit more on really narrowing down your message, right. Your USP, your exact audience, your exact offer that you are giving them and why you are unique and special you know, different and all that kind of thing.

But if you are above you know, just say quarter million or so, you really, really, really, really, really, really need to start focusing on your metrics and really get a good grasp on them because when you know your metrics it opens up everything because then you know exactly what your promotions have to convert. You know exactly how much money you can spend. You know exactly how much money is going to be in your bank you know, if you are paid traffic at least because when you are doing paid you know, and that is kind of the holy grail when you can make traffic work to paid traffic then you know that, hey, if I spend $10,000 this month that means I am going to make just like $12,000 in the first 30 days, I am going to make $20,000 in the next 6 months and you can actually predict how fast you are going to grow with your business, right. So I hope that all make sense.

So that is my (inaudible 16:27.3) for today, as always, if you enjoyed this episode or this podcast in general, make sure you are telling your friends about it. If you are on any Facebook forms or you know, whatever you are on you know, make sure you tell people about it so we can kind of grow the community a little bit more. Like I said, it has been growing really, really fast lately, basically it doubled in the last 2 months or so which is awesome, I am really excited about that and it makes me want to continue to do it.

Also, if you leave a review that is going to help us grow the fastest, it only takes like 30 seconds and you know, it would just be you know, if you really enjoyed this, it would be a huge favor to me if you just leave a review on itunes. Again, it takes like 30 seconds and it would be a giant favor to me. I spent a lot of time putting these together and thinking about it and for going out and finding guests and all that kind of fun stuff, so it would be a huge favor to me plus it is only in your best interest because I am going to send you my 101 Conversion Tips free if you leave a review.

All you have to do is just leave a review and then shoot me an email support@jeremyreeves.com letting me know that you left a review and will send you that over.

I actually got a -- I got an email from someone the other day that did that and he looked through the 101 Conversion Tips you know, PDF, and he said -- he was like, oh my God, I cannot believe you are giving away this for free. He said, I actually feel bad for going through this because you need to be charging money for this you know, so and I used to. I used to charge $77.

The reason by the way that I am giving away for free right now, it is not going to be forever. The reason that I am right now is because some of the things in their not all, but you know, there is a 101 Conversion Tips and probably, I do not know, 15 maybe are a little bit outdated, things that you know, used to work or old formats, things like that and I just have not updated it yet.

I used to do my site on HTML with Dreamweaver and all that and since I switched over to well, thrive that I am using now it you know, basically, I just have not move that product over. So it is something I used to sell for $77 and basically just have -- I just need to update it and then started selling it again, but again, I am giving it away for free simply because out of laziness, I do not really have anything else that I could think to give you. So I am just giving it away that because I thought it would be cool, but yeah.

So anyway, leave a review. Tell your friends and I will talk to you next time. I hope you enjoyed it. Bye.

Jul 08 2016

19mins

Play

Rank #13: How To 2-3x Your Personal Income With The Breakeven Line

Podcast cover
Read more

Most people are SO close to living a lifestyle most people only dream of, but they're stuck in the "average to above average" trap. In this episode I walk you through exactly how close you are by looking at your "breakeven point" and how you can actually 2-3x your personal income without even growing your business that much!

Resources Mentioned

support@jeremyreeves.com

Transcript

Hey everyone, Jeremy Reeves here again with another episode of the sales funnel mastery podcast.

Today, I want to talk about money, right which we basically do every time in the podcast. So I just got back from New York city. I got invited to a yacht party up at New York city, so that was really fun you know, one of the cool perks of you know, owning your own business and knowing cool people that you get invited to stuff like that you know. It has been a lot of fun. I met a lot of really bad ass people. So I am kind of excited to you know, deepen the relationships of those people and you know, I got a lot of awesome pictures and having a great time.

So now I am back and swinging things and you know, one of the things that I was actually thinking of on my drive home was the breakeven point, right.

So this is something that you know, if you are listening to this you know that I talk about a lot and I want to kind of take the step further at this point because there are 2 you know, there are 2 kind of concepts that I have with breakeven and people do not realized how powerful it is you know.

So the first one is breaking even on your marketing and you know, I always say that that is like the big kind of (inaudible 1:29.5) that is the big turning point in a business is when you hit breakeven with paid traffic, I am talking about. Because then you can afford to buy paid traffic and you can scale it up and then get you know increase the business to the backend, right.

Very, very few businesses are profitable from first time customers you know what I mean. In 95 plus percent of businesses, most of the actual profit in that business and I am talking about revenue, I am talking about actual net profit that you actually you know, get to keep is made on the backend not on the first time purchase, right and that is why I talk about that all the time.

In this one, I am actually talking about more of your personal finances. So I am going to run you through a couple of things and I want to show you how powerful this is right.

Before I get into these numbers by the way, I made a little chart. I am going to try to make it very simple to follow. There is not too many numbers. So I am going to make a simple (inaudible 2:30.8) right.

So what I want to say before I get into this is, Yes! I realized this is not perfect, okay.

It is really hard doing spreadsheets like this taking into consideration like every little thing you know, taking this consideration marketing cost and which I kind of (inaudible 2:48.5) into COGS which I will get into in a sec and taxes and like you know, all that kind of stuff you know, having more employees as you grown and that kind of thing.

So that stuff is not included in this, but it is really you know, those are kind of small numbers you know with this anyway so they really would not add up to all that much.

So let me give (inaudible 3:10.2) right and basically what I am going to kind of show you is how close you are and this is for anybody that is you know, you kind of in that situation where your -- you know, you are doing good, but in your head you know that you can do so much better, right.

I want to show you how close you are to that.

So if you are at that point where it is like you know, you pay yourself a decent salary you know, the business is doing well but it is not really growing as fast as you hoped.

And you are just like kind of sitting there and it is like, why the hell I am always kind of just in this phase where it is like I am little bit better than average you know what I mean. And I know a lot of entrepreneurs are in this phase you know.

First of all, I think the reason for this just you know, my own kind of theory on this, I think the reason is, it is a mindset thing, it is a mental thing.

I think you have an image of yourself of what you know, what can be possible and what is kind of possible for your own life and I think you kind of just create this like self-perpetuating loop that keeps you in that cycle of like kind of just above average or right at average or just below average or wherever you are right now.

If you are in that stage where you have been there a while, it is most likely a some sort of psychological thing you know, and I am not saying you are weird or anything like that. It is a conditioning thing you know, growing up maybe your parents you know, were kind of average -- financially, I am talking about. That kind of thing, right.

So not to get into like the whole psychological thing, but I want to walk you through this and show you how easy it is to actually go way above that and give -- and pay yourself way more money than you are making right now, right.

So and again, these are example numbers I know yours are going to be different. I know it is not perfect, right, but just take it as the example, right and you can create your own spreadsheet to do this.

So let us just say that you are gross profit every month is $20,000 okay. You are paying your employees -- so all of your employees combined $10,000 a month, right. And your COGS like you know, cost of goods sold.

So this -- what I am putting here is basically marketing plus whatever it costs you actually get the product out of the door you know, so if you are selling physical product, it is like the cost of the product and shipping and that kind of thing. If you are selling a service it is going to be mostly marketing you know, that kind of goes into this. So that is another $5,000 and then you are paying yourself $5,000 a month, okay.

At this point, you are breakeven. The business is breakeven because your you know, you are making $20,000 a month in actual revenue, right. You are giving $5,000 to yourself, $5,000 for you know, COGS and $10,000 to your employees. So you are breakeven, okay.

And that is kind of where you have been hovering you know. You are kind of just at that stage where you just kind of sit in there. You are not really growing that much you know, that kind of thing.

I want to show you all you have to do to double and by the way when I am talking about your income, I am talking about like your actual personal income like what you actually pay yourself, okay, because that is -- you know, a lot of people build their business you know, for revenue and it is like, why, you know.

I was just talking to a client of mine actually. I did a promotion for him last year. I made him I think it was $80,000 something like that. So he reached back out, we are going to do kind of a similar thing and he was you know, telling me, everything that has been going on over the last year.

And one of the things that he did was he was paying himself very, very, very, little right, and just plowing all the money back into his business and that is okay in certain instances -- in his, it is because when he sell, he is a building a business to sell. When he sells it, his industry it sells for really high multiple of cash flow or revenue rather.

So for him, like his goal is just maximum revenue, right. So in that kind of thing and it is totally fine and it makes sense.

For a lot of people that I talked to, so if you are in the kind of lifestyle business, right. If you have a service business or you know, you are not -- you are kind of like me, like my mine is more of a lifestyle business. I am not looking yet max revenue. I am looking at max personal income, right, and where I can find leverage points and things like that, okay.

So that is kind of who I am talking to. If you are building your business to sell it purposely you know, that is the whole goal of your business, then this would not really apply all that much, although, it is still a good exercise to really know your numbers.

So with that said, all you have to do to double your income right, so remember the gross profit was $20,000. All you have to do to double your personal income is get another $6, 700 a month. So that is like another 1/3 of your top line revenue, right.

Let me show you the numbers there.

So this one, you are getting, instead of $20,000, you are getting $26,700 in gross profit. You are paying yourself now $10,000 a month instead of $5,000. So you doubled your income right, still the same with your employees. Still the same -- well COGS, I did is 25% by the way. So that stays true at 25% right, so that is now $6,675 and that is really the only one that even goes up right.

And now you are at let us see, now you are at gross profit of $26, 700 and your basically your, you know, your revenue now is $25. So you are you know, a couple of sandwiches above breakeven, but you are paying yourself $10,000 a month rather than $5.

So you just went from $60,000 a year to $120,000. Huge, huge increased right.

I can tell you from personal experience. Huge, huge, huge difference in your lifestyle right. Going from that like you know, once you get pass the $100,000 mark, you know, it makes a very, very, very big difference in how comfortable you are, you know what I mean. There is kind of like under $100,000 a year in most places, I mean everywhere is different you know, under $100,000 and you are really not living that great of lifestyle you know, it is kind of just average you know, whatever.

Once you get a $100,000 you know, you are at least starting to be able to do things more comfortably. You are not worried about money all the time that kind of thing. And then you know, once you get about like $150,000 or $200,000 then you can really start to get you know, like a more lavish type of lifestyle you know. Then you get above like $500,000 or $1,000,000 mark and you are renting yachts and things like that, right.

So anyway, and that is, by the way, that is kind of in the United States. I know that is going to be different based on the county you are at and all that kind of stuff and you know, your inflation rates and your you know, cost of living and like all that kind of stuff.

But anyway, so that is all you have to is basically add about 1/3 to your top line revenue and you double your own personal income and then if you do that again and you go from $26,000 to $33,300 you can then pay yourself let us see -- you can then pay yourself $15,000 still have the same $10,000 in place and then your COGS go up from at the beginning at $20,000 they were $5,000 remember 25% off on top my revenue then you go to $8,325 but then and you come out your new net is -$25.

So basically, all you do is you know, if you want to -- if you want to pay yourself more, if you are in that situation where it is like you know, I am working really hard and I need to pay myself more you know, so you can live a better lifestyle.

I want you to do this exercise and figure out what your breakpoint is, your breakeven point because you are going to kind of hit a thing and you can do this by the way with your personal -- kind of your personal expenses and that kind of thing so like let us just say that you on average spend $5,000 a month, right.

Well if you pay yourself $5,000 a month you are kind of just at that stage every month where you like okay, well, I can you know, do my stuff, I can go out a couple of times a month or whatever you know, it is okay.

What you have to realize is that every dollar above $5,000 can go to whatever you want. So you can go.

Let us just say that a brand new Corvette is -- I do not know, I do not even know how much they were. Let us just say that you want you know, whatever your car is right, you know, it is a $1,000 a month, right. I do not even know what that (inaudible 12:24.1) I am not really into cars. I actually used to want a Corvette until I can afford one and when I realized that I can actually afford one I did not want it anymore which is kind of funny. It is also kind of you know, because it is just totally impractical, I mean we have you know, 2 kids you know, that kind of thing and we live in Pennsylvania, so you know, you can only drive it for like half a year. So it is totally impractical. So we have a big you know nice Tahoe.

Anyway, you know, a lot of people they look at people with nice cars and they were like, “oh my God, oh my God” you know, but if your expenses are $5,000 and you are making $5,000 well you cannot afford that, right.

So let us just say, $2,000 car because that will probably buy you, I mean you could probably get like a Maserati for $2,000 right.

So all you have to do you know, is make $7,000 a month then you can then afford a Maserati and you can look like this big you know, hot shot, you have a giant ego and all that kind of stuff. Whereas, you are really not making that much more money than somebody else you know, but you can then afford it and that is the power of this, is when you hit that point, you know, when you hit that kind of like breakeven point, everything above that is so much more profitable you know, it goes to your lifestyle or it goes to your whatever it is or your you know, even if you are looking to this not as lifestyle like not like buying cars and houses and stuff, but investing right. Either back in your business or investing like for personal you know, the real estate or stock market or whatever.

There is always this like line right, where up until at that point, you are kind of just working to hit that line and then everything above that, like every dollar that you make is worth -- is so much more valuable to whatever your goal you are trying to achieve right, and that is what I am trying to show you here is I want you to find that line, both personally and in your business by the way. I have my numbers from both personal and business right. It is going to change over time as you add employees, as you add expenses personally you know, whatever, but it is so liberating having that you know, having that line because then you know like okay, I have to make you know, I have to make whatever $15,000 a month right and that is my breakeven and then everything above that goes like you can save or you can reinvest or whatever you are doing with your extra money. You can reinvest you know 50% to 75% more in most cases after you get pass that line right.

It is very motivating knowing what that line is because then when you have month and you are looking at your you know, you are looking at your numbers for the month and you were like, Oh, you know, yes we got that passed that and that is you know, you can kind of celebrate and you are always just pushing towards that goal. You are pushing and pushing and trying to make sure that that is what your reaching you know, and then of course, you continually increase that goal you know, once you -- are having months were they always above breakeven well then you know, then you start to try and you know change that goal and continue pushing and you know, just being the bad ass that you are.

So that is it for today, I just wanted to -- I thought that was kind of a cool exercise to go through and I know that a lot of people have that you know, and a lot of people they do not really look at it that way you know, but I want you to -- do not just listen to this you know, a lot of people maybe they are going (inaudible 15:53.7) in your car or whatever you are doing, taking a shower or something or you are in the toilet or whatever it is that you are doing, while you are listening to this. Hopefully it is not something too weird, slightly weird is okay.

You know, do not just listen to this and then you know, kind of go to the next podcast and just forget about it you know.

I want you to actually sit down and figure out what your breakeven point is, right. And feel free like if you want to you know, email me just shoot me at an email at support@jeremyreeves.com I can send you my calculator that I have, but basically, it is just you know a spreadsheet, there is gross profit, personal employees COGS, total expenses, and net profit and then you just figure out the calculations for each which hopefully anybody listening to this can do that fairly easily. It is not that hard. It is pretty simple arithmetic. Although, I guess if you are not familiar with the spreadsheet maybe that is different because you have to know how to work a spreadsheet.

But that is it. As always, if you are enjoying this you know, if you like the podcast make sure you are sharing it with your friends, like I have been saying in the last couple of times our you know, our downloads have been going way, way up, it has been continually increasing so if you guys are telling your friends, I would really appreciate it, it is showing in the numbers so that is awesome. I want to get you know as many people listening to this as I can obviously because then it makes it more worth me doing it, right.

I have a whole bunch of really cool interviews lined up for you. We just went and reached out to a whole bunch of new guest to have on here. I think we just booked like 8 of them something like that. So there is a whole bunch lined up for you. I am really excited about it.

Also, actually, I have something -- I have some news for you but I am going to wait until maybe the next podcast to announce that.

Another thing is I am going to be working on a new product which is awesome. I kind of just came up with it. I realized that I am very, very, very good at a certain thing. I am not going to give it away yet, but I am at a certain -- I am very, very good at a certain thing in you know, in funnels you know what I mean. Like there is a lot of different things you can do with funnels obviously, we (inaudible 18:08.2) copywriting and it has to do with that, but it is something that I, for some reason, have never thought of putting training together for and it is going to be really, really bad ass. I am going to spend the next couple of weeks or months putting it all together for you, but maybe next time, I will announce it, so you will know it is coming, something like that.

But anyway, I hope you have a good day. I hope this -- I hope you enjoyed this. I hope it added value to your life and made you, you know, it kind of open your eyes up a little bit and more importantly, I hope you actually go and you know, figure these numbers out for yourself, right.

So yeah, that is it. If you are interested in working together with us you know, to help build your funnel, as always, shoot an email to support@jeremyreeves.com and we will talk to you soon, alright, bye.

Aug 05 2016

19mins

Play

Rank #14: Ben Settle On Personality-Driven Emails

Podcast cover
Read more

In this episode, we chat with the one and only Ben Settle. Ben is a well-known email marketer who has a unique approach to writing emails. We get into the specifics of his unique style, why it works so well, why most people royally screw up the entire purpose of emails, and how you can use it in your own business for better results and a heckuva lot more fun writing emails!

Resources Mentioned

bensettle.com

Transcript

Jeremy Reeves: Hey, what is going on everybody. Jeremy Reeves here with another episode of The Sales Funnel Mastery Podcast.

Today, I have on the line, Ben Settle. Probably a lot of you listening know about Ben.

Basically, he is an email marketing bad ass -- if you bring up the subject email marketing, you have probably heard his name somewhere in there.

He basically runs -- he does not do copy work anymore, anything like that. He kind of just focuses on you know, showing business owners how to write better sales copy with email and we will talk about it a little bit later where he has a news letter called email players which is pretty awesome and we will get into a little bit about that later.

Ben, how are you buddy?

Ben Settle: I am doing good, Jeremy. Thanks for having me on your show here. It is good to be here.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah. I appreciate you coming on.

So before we get into like you know, the actual tips and all that kind of stuff. Tell everybody a little bit about yourself you know, go into your story a little bit so people know you know, who you are or what you have done and why people talked about you in the industry.

Ben Settle: Okay. I felt everybody says good things about me (inaudible 1:25.3) I hope not or else I am doing something wrong.

I am basically -- whenever people ask me what I do -- and being in this industry you know the frustration to that problem. You go to a party and it is not business people, certainly not internet people. What do you do, right. What are you saying..

I used to have these different answers. I would like to gauge people’s response. Like I (inaudible 1:47.6) expand emails. I write (inaudible 1:51.0) emails, but now I will say, I am like (inaudible 1:53.4) who gets paid.

And then they go, what do you mean by that.

I said, well, I wake every day. I write an email, it takes me 10 to 15 or maybe 20 minutes tops and then I am done. I go off and have fun and play all day. That is the essence of what I do and the kind of lifestyle (inaudible 2:09.6) you know, there is people right now out there glorifying long hours and hard work and few hours of sleep and I am like the (inaudible 2:19.9) whatever it is or a writer who does not you know understand grammar, but that is like, I am the opposite.

I have tried to build a lifestyle where -- I do other stuff, but I only have to do that and so that is pretty much what I do.

Jeremy Reeves: Nice, nice.

Why did you make that decision you know, because I am on the same way and everybody listening to this probably is too because that is what I talked about all the time is you know, time freedom and kind of not going after you know, the typical like you work until your eyes bleed just because you know, if you are trying to build a company sell for you know 7, 8, or 9 figures then maybe do that for a couple of years and then sell it and then you know do whatever or like Gary Vaynerchuck says, you know, he cannot live any other way you know, that is just part of your DNA and that is fine, but I mean, I definitely at more along the lines of yours you know what I mean. Work for a couple of hours. Work you know, for a little bit and then enjoy your life you know.

So why did you -- why did you end up you know, wanting to go down that path you know, versus like the work until your eyes (inaudible 3:28.4).

Ben Settle: Yeah (inaudible 3:28.4) and I was just speaking at an event a couple (inaudible 3:32.2) weekend and I remember telling people I am like the anti Gary V. not that I am against him (inaudible 3:39.8) I respect the guy. Do not get me wrong, but I am anti that in the sense of I do the opposite, like I could not -- I am not a -- like he said, he is apparently -- I have never heard the guy talk before. It is kind of funny because everybody (inaudible 3:50.9).

Apparently, I was on this interview called mixology I think with Andrew Warner. Really cool show. He was telling me that in an interview Gary V (inaudible 4:01.5) he is like a mutant. He only needs like an hour of sleep.

I do not know man. To me, like that is not what I want.

So this is probably back like 2004, I was you know, somewhat new copywriter. I have been doing it for about a year or two or whatever.

And I remember being on this guy’s list, Matty Furey.

Now, to me, Matt Furey is the email king. I give him all the -- I mean, the stuff he teaches is the foundation of how I got in to all of this.

Now I hear often a lot of ways not but the foundational stuff. Yeah, I owe that guy everything as far as I am concern. I will be pumping gas at the Chevron right now (inaudible 4:35.6) for him.

He was selling to the fitness niche right. You know, body weight, exercise books master stuff.

He would write an email everyday and he will be done. Sometimes he brag (inaudible 4:45.1) you know. I do not even check his email respond. Just pushing (inaudible 4:48.0) I want to go off. I am in China. I am going to go write often and get massages whole day out.

And I thought, man, that is what I want. I (inaudible 4:54.8) busting my ass like you know, client work. I am like, I want that. I want to go just send an email out and be gone for the day, so I can have the option to do other things if I want and I do. I write novels like monster novels and I (inaudible 5:07.4) joint ventures that I am involved in like in a golf market, but that stuff is optional, okay.

(inaudible 5:12.9) to do this one thing and it is a very freeing way to live. I can still work hard if I want you know, I do. I do work hard. I get bored very easily, but it is nice to not have to, that is my whole point.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah and I think that is a big point you know. It is the freedom to do you know, if you wake up one day and then you are like shit, I just do not feel like working. I mean, you do not have to, you know, versus if you are tied down by a thousand things, it does not matter how you feel when you wake up. You have to work and it is just your grinding through it. You hate your day and that kind of thing.

I totally get that. I love that.

Ben Settle: To clarify a job at that point.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, it really is, yeah.

And I think a lot of people are you know, struggling with that. I think that is how most people set up their businesses.

Ben Settle: You know, there is something -- I am also going to play Devil’s Advocate against myself because at the same time and I told (inaudible 6:05.8) you probably heard me talked about this in Kenny Roger’s thing.

At the same time, those guys (inaudible 6:12.2) building actual real businesses and companies that they can sell off or just leave to a team to run, I wish I was more like that. I mean they are really the winners. They are the ones are going to win this race.

I am just sitting there. I am just coasting along right now. If I get sick or hurt or die, some kind of (inaudible 6:27.1) because I do not have that (inaudible 6:29.5).

So there is freedom there, but it is like the freedom of a drifter and like that (inaudible 6:34.4) David Banner wondering the earth. Well if he breaks his legs, he is kind of screwed you know.

At the same time, I mean there is something (inaudible 6:42.0) to the other side and I should be thinking more like that. I just have not thinking inspired yet.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah. You know, like anything else, there is pros and cons. There is no black and white. There is no perfect way to do things. It is just whatever works for you and your lifestyle you know, what you want to do you know.

So you know, for anybody who has not heard of you, I feel like a lot of the audience listening to this probably has at least a familiarity with you and the style of writing that you do, but tell everybody about like, because your writing is very different than most people you know what I mean.

So I guess walk us through like the -- I guess like the overall framework that you used for writing and I do not know if you can write copy. I know some people can just spout off copy off the top of their heads, but like just to kind to give an example of what it sounds like just so people can see, kind of hear how it is different you know, than like a typical email.

Ben Settle: Well, here is -- they have been hearing me do it since we got on the phone or on the Skype here because I write just like I talk and this is the fact.

If I have a unique way of writing it is only because I have a unique -- everybody has a unique personality. I simply expressed mine through my writing.

How I write is exactly how I talk. In fact, you were talking to Jonathan Rivera you said recently and he is my -- I am going to be doing a new podcast by (inaudible 8:05.8) well I can do new (inaudible 8:07.6).

Jeremy Reeves: That will be interesting.

Ben Settle: I had a podcast for 2-1/2 years with him and he was the producer and I am going to be you know, we ended that in actually just a couple of weeks ago completely. Now we are going to do a new one next year, different one. But anyway, he told me that, he called me on the air once and he went to some mastermind right where there is a bunch of people there that I guess knew me in person.

We have hang out (inaudible 8:31.4) and then like you know, Ben sounds exactly like, on his podcast as he does it in email as he does in real life is the exact same voice completely congruent. You know you are talking to -- you can tell it is a Ben email without even seeing the frontline if you know him or heard him talk.

So all I am doing is writing like I talk which is a very simple principle that I learned from Matt Furey actually. I give him all the credits for it. I used to censor myself. I do not anymore. I am raw, uncircumcised opinion and that is the way I do things.

Jeremy Reeves: Nice. So how do you -- in terms of like you know, because I get a question a lot of you know, how much value do you put it in and like what do you sell. How do you leave the sale like all you know, all the kind of typical marketing questions.

What is your -- do you have like a -- I guess like a framework for your emails, like do you follow a certain structure for them or do you kind of just like blurted out and you know, or do you follow like kind of a certain structure for them?

Ben Settle: Well when I was figuring all this out, I very consciously started figuring out different structures.

So for example, I am going to tell a story and 1 email or I am going to do a Q&A or I just (inaudible 9:41.3) with somebody ask me and I just answer. That is another structure or checklist of some kind or just a rant like a controversial rant and a whole bunch more.

But I had to consciously work all this out and systematized it and you know, that is kind of what I teach these days, but nowadays, it is (inaudible 10:00.1) to me, I do not think any of that stuff. It is just in my subconscious. I just sit down and I have an idea, I start writing and I cannot explain it beyond that (inaudible 10:07.5) it is kind of like (inaudible 10:08.9) right.

When you are trying to learn something, you are consciously unconfident. You know, you do not know and then you go from conscious confidence where you can do the thing while you are thinking about it and then you get to the point you are unconsciously confident which is like driving a car, you did not think about it anymore.

And that is where I am (inaudible 10:25.2) that now, but I did have to work that stuff out originally and just keep doing it over, over, and over for the last you know, 8 or 9 years every day, sometimes 2 to 3 times a day to the point where it is so (inaudible 10:37.1) it is like hard for me not to write an email every day or voice emails.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah and actually, you know, speaking of daily emails. I know you are (inaudible 10:45.9) daily emails and you know, everybody has a different opinion on that of course.

So you know, walk us through like you know, why you do daily emails? Have you tested not doing daily emails you know, have you tested autoresponders you know, what are some of the things that you have kind of try and saw that it work best around like frequency.

Ben Settle: Well, when I first get started many months ago, I did like what the late great Gary Halbert used to teach people to do and I mean this with all due respect to him, but he was (inaudible 11:17.1). I mean he is right about a lot of stuff, but this where he was wrong.

He was big on like send an email when you have something to say and then or only saw once in a while because then you know, people take it more seriously you know, all that what make sense on the (inaudible 11:32.9) especially back in like the 90s and all -- they kind of make sense.

I still think it you know, when the work is well is how I do it now, but whatever, it does not matter.

So I used to do that and so well, I would go months and months and months without selling anything. I would just be giving free content and free articles and then one day like exactly 10 years ago actually because I remember 2006, my friend John Anghelache who is a very good copywriter, excellent copywriter, I respect the guy tremendously, he put together a product for freelanced copywriters like how to get clients and my list was you know, very into that sort of thing I said good, I have got something to sell them right, it is a high ticket, high quality thing I believed in.

So I send some -- (inaudible 12:14.1) asking for the sale and got a bunch of angry mob of angry people. How dare I sell anything. You are pimping your (inaudible 12:21.2) I never sold anything before though.

And that is when I realized trying to appease these loser freebie seekers is the worst thing you can do if you want to have a solid email list or you are not getting a bunch of spam complaints and just trolls and all that.

And so I started you know, thinking about that with why I am trying to appease this people. I have something to sell, I should do it and then of course I ran into Matt Furey’s teachings. He is pure daily email from many reasons like for example, people procrastinate you know, and you can assume it even seeing your last 10 emails just because of spam filters and they are busy.

I get people telling me Jeremy that they made a decision to buy from me 6 weeks earlier than when they actually did. They just did not have the money. They just (inaudible 13:03.5) for reminding them every day.

And here is another thought. If you are trying to position yourself as an expert, personally, I would like to position myself as a leader not just an expert because people listen to experts but they follow leaders, but let us just say --

Jeremy Reeves: It is a good distinction. I like that.

Ben Settle: Yeah, I mean, you are trying to position yourself as some kind of authority, let us just put it that way and (inaudible 13:24.1) something to say once a week or twice a week you know, and then this other guy comes along and he has something to say every day. Who is -- perceptually, who is the leader?

I mean if you do not have something to say everyday on what you are doing, people may not consciously think about it, but unconsciously, they think about this person is really the expert they say they are.

And so, it is that and it is just this consistency, is like talk radio right, like every day you show up.

They do not have read every email, but I am there every day and I am going to get them eventually if they are susceptible to my (inaudible 13:55.8) and the people I do not want will leave peacefully because they are tired of getting (inaudible 14:00.0) emails, so it is fine. It works out in so many -- it is a good way to keep your list strong and keep people kind of addicted to you like literally get a dopamine drip when they see your name in it, (inaudible 14:10.7) what is he going to say today.

And you know, there are so many reasons to do daily and no I cannot think of any reason not to other than pure laziness or like you know, people just (inaudible 14:20.2) why I have to do the work.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah. That is a good point, and honestly, I think that is what it is most of the time you know.

Ben Settle: (inaudible 14:28.4) they do not want to have to do it and I give it (inaudible 14:31.9) I understand it completely. I might even making fun of them because they think I know I should do that I am not doing and I am not doing it because I am being lazy and my rationalization (inaudible 14:43.0) spinning some other reason out, but the fact -- at the same time I will say this too.

(inaudible 14:49.1) of internet marketing as we know it, (inaudible 14:52.3) but I once interviewed him, this is back in 2008 or something.

He says, he only sends 3 a week and he tested it. Apparently, somehow got more sales doing that, whatever. I have never seen that be the case with anybody else but him, but (inaudible 15:08.3) about or anything. He is not a lazy guy so and he likes writing email, so for him, you know, I guess you have to do your own thing.

I think that through writing emails that people want to read. Why wouldn’t you want to be there every day. They are looking forward to it.

Jeremy Reeves: One of things I want to touch on and feel free to rant about this as much as you want.

Ben Settle: I will Jeremy. (inaudible 15:32.1) free to rant. I love that kind of stuff.

Jeremy Reeves: So what are your thoughts on controversy?

Ben Settle: I love controversy. I tell you what. It is one of the things I teach people to do.

First of all, people love controversy. I mean, it is (inaudible 15:49.2) right. People just arguing about the stupid and shit you know, (inaudible 15:54.0) 300 comments long and nobody has made a point. Nobody has change anyone’s mind, but they just like ranting.

(inaudible 16:01.2) talk radio it is a lot of ranting, right. People like to hear ranting about things they are passion about. They like to hear ranting controversial stuff about (inaudible 16:09.2) they disagree about them.

Let me give you an example. Back in the late 1980s, Marvel Comics decided to turn the green rampaging Hulk into a smart gray Hulk, who is smaller, not as strong, he is still strong, but not as strong as rampaging green Hulk because he is kind of like sinister-minded, kind of an antihero kind of you know, just a vicious guy basically.

And all of the green Hulk people were pissed. They are sending letters (inaudible 16:37.0) writers and editors and we are never reading the Hulk again and then they noticed every month that went by, the same people were still there. They did not leave. They are still there just to see how much mad they can get and sales keep going up more.

So controversy, it is a funny thing. Half of your list should disagree you know, half will probably agree with you and that is actually a very good balance and the (inaudible 16:59.8) one, you can pull to your side.

So I am all for controversy. It also shows that you have some balls. I mean, most people are afraid to be controversial and people like to follow brave people. They do not want to follow some timid little rabbit like you know, (inaudible 17:16.7) me as I was. I was as timid little rabbit afraid to say too. I have tried to get to controversial. Now, it is like, I just want to see the expression on their faces change when I say something that pisses them off you know what I mean (inaudible 17:30.0).

Jeremy Reeves: That gives you your little dopamine rush every day when you get hate mail.

Ben Settle: It is a rush of dopamine. I love it. I eat it up. I love and then I use it in the next day’s email to make their point stupid and (inaudible 17:44.0) my part.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. And the funny thing is, I always say like you know, if you picture yourself kind of like in the middle and you are like you know, like a magnet and the more that you pissed off people and push away and polarized people, the amount that whatever like the amount of whatever polarization you have to those people is the exact like in inverse relationship with people attracted to you, you know what I mean.

Ben Settle: Absolutely. I totally agree with that. In fact, that is a major foundation of personal branding like how it is done, at least done.

Most of them do not understand personal branding but done properly that is exactly it. You can almost tell your success by how much people hate you.

And there is something else that (inaudible 18:29.0) deeper thing at work here too. Someone who is not afraid to just give their opinion up. It has to be done righteously. It cannot be done as a tactic or like I am going to be controversial is a tactic.

It is going to be because you really see something that you know is wrong in your mind, in your heart like you are going to talk about it. It makes people realized that you are not me. You do not need them, if you did, you would be dancing on (inaudible 18:52.5) right, and you are almost trying to repulse some away and there is a lot of -- it is under the consciousness. It is not some people think about, but by being controversial that is why people do not go away because they -- there is something about you that they find attractive as a business owner, as a leader, and whatever, and even if they disagree or do they respect you and it is far more important as the late great (inaudible 19:15.5) I would say.

It is far more important to be respected than liked and the more effective you are the more respected you are. So just by getting good at what you do, and proving your point and not giving in like the late -- for example, the late Dr. Atkins, right. I mean, he for years, was getting abuse by the media and people mocking him around. He stood with it. Now he is a world recognized brand you know. There is something to be set for that.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. And I think a good example of not being controversial just to be controversial is like, if you are you know, so like we both agree with the -- we both kind of stand for like the you know, building a business for freedom you know versus the whole work until your eyes bleed thing. So you can be controversial about that. You can say like you know, the other side is I do not agree with that, blah.. blah.. blah.. and that is kind of good way to do, that gives -- you are going to attract people that think the same thing.

And then, but if you want to do the stupid way is kind of like if you are like oh I hate all puppies you know, it is like -- like there is no -- there is no meaning behind it. You are just being an idiot you know what I mean and whether you hate puppies or not I mean I do not know how you can hate puppies, but you know what I mean like it is not actually serving a purpose to say that you know what I mean, I think that is a good --

Ben Settle: I will give you a recent example and so I think -- I think this is like, this will give people an email example too so it is kind of like teaching them email stuff at the same time.

I am not totally against (inaudible 20:43.2) so for last year and a half, I have been studying this kind of kung fu called Wing Chun.

Wing Chun, sometimes people think I am saying Weng Chan.

Jeremy Reeves: I actually thought you did.

Ben Settle: Yeah, well because of my stupid Midwest accent thing, gets me in all kinds of trouble, but I got to shake that, someday, but anyway, I was talking to my (inaudible 21:05.8) just last week and he was telling me about this -- I do not know Chinese phrases (inaudible 21:10.4) it is called flowery hands.

These are like kung fu like and not just kung fu but any kind of martial arts were just all show and it is flashy but it is not really applicable in real life (inaudible 21:21.0) in Hollywood and movies. Most of them is just bullshit, it would never work. It is flowery hands. It is very fluffy. It is made to look cool, but the reality is you are not in balance with anything. You can easily get (inaudible 21:30.7).

So I said, we have some of that and this was an email I sent (inaudible 21:34.4) and then we have some flowery hands in the email world too and I went over some things that I think (inaudible 21:40.9) that people do like will take the Gary V and I am trying to pick (inaudible 21:46.2) I just do not agree what a lot of people of do.

He has this thing I think it is called jab, jab, jab, right hook, like that. Like give something free, give something free and then make an offer. I am completely against that. I think that is very flowery hands. The style looks nice, but the reality is that it is very selfish to not sell on every email and (inaudible 22:08.4) opinion because if you have something that is going to benefit someone’s life, what good (inaudible 22:14.2) at least left a note (inaudible 22:15.5) everyday.

It is kind of like -- if you have a painful urinary tract infection, where it feels like you are pissing a razorblades and all that. You need to go to the store or pharmacy to get your prescription and they have -- the pharmacy (inaudible 22:28.4) and they say look, this is a good will day today, we are not going to sell you anything (inaudible 22:32.2).

Like that is the mindset, the flowery hands mindset or people -- for example, there are people who give their list the option on how often they should hear from them.

It sounds very nice. Very nice guy. Very (inaudible 22:47.0), it is still very selfish and at the same time, it is going to kill your sales (inaudible 22:50.9).

And it is very flowery and I am not saying it would not work and some people can definitely pull it off and it is fine. There is nothing wrong with it, but to me, it is very flowery. It is just for show as to prove that I am not this big salesman. I am a salesman. I am trying to sell you something, but I am going to do it in a way where you like it, you know.

I am like the passive abusive guy you know what I mean. I am going to abuse you, but you are going to like it. And you want more the next day.

So anyway, I did an email about that. I did it once. There are some other things too and that was controversial email. I was not insulting. I was not trying to insult anyone’s specific (inaudible 23:29.2). I was simply giving people a different option for thinking differently basically because most people are thinking in this (inaudible 23:36.2) world (inaudible 23:37.7).

They do not have to listen to me. They do not have to agree with me, but they are going to see another point of view and that could be controversial.

Jeremy Reeves: Okay, yeah, yeah. I mean, honestly, if you look like a really good example of all this right now whether you love (inaudible 23:50.8) is trump, right. I mean, oh my God, I mean the marketing (inaudible 23:55.9) from that guy is just, Jesus --

Ben Settle: I hear you. I mean, earlier this year where I finally read his book, (inaudible 24:03.4) and I am like his whole play from what he is doing is in that book. There is no mystery to what he is doing.

People like to (inaudible 24:09.4) at the reality is just very basic. Principle based versus tactic based and you are right and you know, he is controversial and he does it on purpose, but he is also doing it because he sees a problem that needs to be solved.

Now whether you agree to him or not it does not matter.

I do not give this guy a malicious (inaudible 24:26.9). I do not think they are being malicious not certainly on purpose, Hillary maybe, but like (inaudible 24:32.7) I do not look at him as trying -- I do not agree to anything he says, but I do not think he is malicious (inaudible 24:38.0) I think he believes them and it is controversial and (inaudible 24:41.4) and so as Trump is the same way.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely.

So let us take this you know, because there is like the whole daily email thing right, and I think we cover that pretty well, but how about like when you are doing -- let us just say that you are doing a promotion you know what I mean. So it is like, you are sitting down. You are planning out some actual strategy because you are not going to write -- you are not going to -- you maybe write the same way in terms of like tone and things like that, but in terms of like the actual strategy behind it, that is going to change obviously because you know, you cannot just send out you know, the exact same daily emails when you are doing like a 4 day promotion or something like that.

So how do you switch up the strategy? Do you keep the same tone, I am sure you do, but you know, is there a certain strategy that like a certain way that you like to structure those types of emails or like how does the overall email strategy change based on like the end goal that you are trying to reach.

Ben Settle: It does change at all for me. The same email -- for example, if I had a 100 emails in an autoresponder space the day apart, I write them randomly in the exact same as if I am writing email broadcast and it has never hurt me. It is always done very well.

What I do, okay, -- this might be the better answer to your question. I do not look at email tactically like most people do. Like -- okay, so I have Facebook group. This one guy was in there saying, well, how about this 4 emails I want to send off. This one tells, agitates the problem and this one you know, whatever, it is like problem education and I said, dude you are dead in the water right now because you approaching this tactically and you should be calling from a principle based thing. This is (inaudible 26:20.7) the world’s most (inaudible 26:23.3) negotiator.

The reality is that you should be looking at what your market, what the problems are in your market and writing about that, not thinking (inaudible 26:30.3) agitate.

What is insecurity they have that you can write about it you know. It is really (inaudible 26:36.6) like come from the market first not (inaudible 26:39.2).

And so, that is how I approach for example for a promotion. I say, look, I think I have a real-life example, a recent one actually of something like it.

So I say, okay, so a couple of years ago, I (inaudible 26:39.2) most people do.

So this is back when he had this product that shows you how to do the survey funnels. He does not have it anymore. Now it is like a mastermind, but -- I bring this example up because I beat all his affiliates handily including some pretty big names like I just beat them all and I did not even try (inaudible 27:10.8) burned up somewhat. I was (inaudible 27:10.8) vacation.

All I did was I said, okay, I have affiliate marketers on my list. I have network marketers on my list. I have freelance copywriters on my list you know, I looked at all the people who are on my list and I did an email about each one.

So how could a network marketer (inaudible 27:27.3) this and I write email about that. How can affiliate marketer use this information, wrote an email about that (inaudible 27:32.9) same style and tone and all that, but I was targeting different segments of my market.

I did this recently with Danny (inaudible 27:40.5) you know Danny (inaudible 27:41.3).

I was selling his course builder (inaudible 27:43.6). He simply really -- this is way better than -- like the average affiliate. I do not know if I did the best or not, but you know, way better. I mean, he was very happy about it.

I did the same thing. Okay, so, why would a freelance copywriter need to learn how to build a course. Why would an affiliate marketer need how to build the course. Why would a network marketer (inaudible 28:01.6) it is all about your list and the people on and what they want, tailored around that. That is the principle then you can throw the tactics after the next emails if you want, but starts with that.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, you know what, I am actually -- I am actually working the whole day today and yesterday and tomorrow and probably the weekend actually which I rarely work weekends, but I am just motivated this weekend.

But I am coming out with the new course and that is, well like, what the whole thing is wrapped around because I mean, you know, as a copywriter, you know, you are trained to, you are trained to -- and honestly this is really what separates really good copywriters from really bad copywriters is how much you focus on the actual market, the problems they are having you know what I mean, because you can write -- it kind of comes back to the flower hands. You can make the copy sound great but if you are talking about the wrong problems or you are talking to the wrong audience of if it is generalized, it is not going to sell you know what I mean.

Ben Settle: (inaudible 29:01.6) all the time. People’s flashy headlines, all the shit. They think it is so cool and it is like, you missed the market --

You know, let us talk about this a little bit more. This is very interesting topic.

(inaudible 29:12.0) I do not have the product made yet, so write the ad first, and then create and like create the product in the ad. I did this in the -- work at home (inaudible 29:21.1) we did not have a product, right and we look at the market and I wrote the ad saying if I have unlimited powers what would I teach these people and put it in the ad and then it is like, okay, now we just need to make a product that fulfills all these claims and if we cannot, we just take those claims out. That is the ideal way to do it. Only copywriters are going to get that. Operators are not going to understand that.

Jeremy Reeves: I am actually working on a client project right now and I am just about to finish up all the copy and I literally have not seen her product yet. It is actually not even -- it is not even created yet, yeah.

And what I told her was, because she was starting to make it and I said, wait until the copy is actually done because then like I can just write it and until it sounds freaking awesome, and then --

Ben Settle: Absolutely.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, and then what you have to do is you have to then create the product so it matches the level of copy you know what I mean, versus if you create the product and the product sucks, will -- I mean the copy or the product is the weak link and the copy can only go up to that level versus if you write the most amazing copy in the world and sell the hell out of it then the product has to come out to that level you know.

Ben Settle: Absolutely. It brings it up. It actually raises -- and you know what, when I first got into golf interest like in 2009, I did not know shit about golfing, seriously. I hope I am not slamming too much in your (inaudible 30:39.3)

But I did not know anything about golf, like I was -- I never played a bit, not even miniature golf and but I studied the market so intensely and the product was not ready, but I was able to write 80% -- everything but the bullets basically, without even seeing the product or knew the market and they killed, I mean it absolutely killed it in sales. I mean there is no one even close and so yeah, I agree with you on that.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely. And that is the same thing. I just have to go back and do the bullets you know. Having the product, that is really all you need is just the bullets you know.

Ben Settle: Yeah, (inaudible 31:12.1) that is really how you need it exactly.

Jeremy Reeves: Unless you are doing you know, one of the like (inaudible 31:16.9) old ads where it was just like a headline and then bullets and you know, go here to buy.

Ben Settle: One of my favorite kind of ads to write.

Jeremy Reeves: Then you kind of you know, you kind of need the product, but in every other case you know and I have not really -- I think that is the only time I have heard or even seen (inaudible 31:34.2) like that. I do not think I have ever seen anybody duplicate one of those you know.

Ben Settle: I tried (inaudible 31:39.7) couple case like I have this ebook called Crackerjack Selling Secrets, (inaudible 31:45.8) like a main stream like it is a problem they know they have and they know they want solutions to it and you can (inaudible 31:51.7) it is like informational (inaudible 31:53.5) to teasing, it is perfect.

You do not even have to do (inaudible 31:57.2) you know, just start running bullets, it is like to shoot bullets at them.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, bullets are good. I think the biggest thing people are wrong with them is they almost like give it away in the bullet whereas you know, they are fascinations. They are supposed to be you know, they are supposed to build curiosity you know and I think --

Ben Settle: Yeah. 90% is a good -- like 90% (inaudible 32:20.3) 10% but they need to execute it is like the best kind of bullet, because it is informational like you could be getting educated (inaudible 32:27.4)

Jeremy Reeves: So one -- oh God, I just had it, and it went out.

I love that when that happens during the interview.

Alright, well, I guess we will skip that one.

Oh you know what, you know what I was going to ask you, it just came back.

So one of the things that I always talk about is that you know, when you are doing these type of emails and like a lot of your -- a lot of people think you know, email is dead and obviously that is just total bullshit.

But you know, when it comes to doing email or even social media, it is kind of like the same thing whatever you like your main marketing you know, some people are really good at and by the way, anybody listening to this, if you hate writing emails, but you are really good at videos, you are really good on social media, you can use the same principles and just use it in a different media you know what I mean.

Ben Settle: It is all the same. It is all freaking same. In fact, I have a guy just showing my email players newsletter. I met him while I was speaking a couple of weeks ago. His name is Tyson (inaudible 33:34.0) I hope I said his name right. He is big in the (inaudible 33:36.3) world and he is a video guy. He is great. He is freaking genius at video. He is like (inaudible 33:40.6) all can be applied to video.

I have another subscriber (inaudible 33:46.2) he is a rapper and he was like, Ben, I never write emails but I take it in (inaudible 33:52.2) he is on youtube and it work.

So yeah, what you are saying is absolutely true.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah and so where I was going with that because I went off you know, total spider web there.

One of my kind of theories is that you know, when you are doing this you are basically building a relationship and even if they are not because you said a while ago, you know, a lot of people -- they know they are going to buy, it is just kind of waiting for the right time whether it is money or whether they are too busy doing other stuff or whatever it is.

Would you agree that writing daily emails or even just frequent emails or just having that relationship keeping constant touch, it really just sets -- it’s kind of sets the stage, it builds the trust so that whenever you come out with something, I think this is why you are such a good -- when you do affiliate programs it is because you built that trust you know with them.

You built that relationship with them and it is like, it almost does not even matter what you are selling, it is just like oh well, Ben says this is good, therefore, I need it you know.

Do you agree with that?

Ben Settle: Yes and in fact, I am thinking -- all of the stuff. The relationship is far more important to go back and trying to build credibility and all the stuff because that is the credibility in fact that they like and trust you.

That is why I said there is a different -- copywriting is different than email in that sense. Like copywriting has to be very specific because -- you know, it is a static thing (inaudible 35:13.5) everyday you do not have to pitch benefits and try to prove how great you are everyday. You just have (inaudible 35:18.1) with dialogue just like you would --

It is funny that you brought up like people just buy it.

So I launched this product called Copy Slacker last February and you know, I ordered 50 sets of it because I do not think (inaudible 35:33.7) I thought I get 50 sales or maybe 40 sales. I have like a 177 and I do not know -- I doubt anybody, any of them really read the sales letter.

(inaudible 35:48.2) told me, I just bought you know. So you are right about that and by being there, that is another reason to do daily emails you know everyday like a friend in their inbox.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely. I have heard a lot of product launch you will see it is like you know, hey it is 12 o’clock, the cart is open and you have 10 sales at 12 o’clock exactly you know what I mean.

Ben Settle: That is a function of a very good marketing.

Well it is the very end of February, first couple of days in March I was -- I spoke at AWAI’s web copywriting intensive (inaudible 36:20.3) and Clayton Makepeace was there. It was honored to actually get to meet him and actually be on the panel. I was like, wow it was like my fan boy dream come true.

I remember him teaching. He was -- what we are trying to do, what he was doing in his business is, he wants to (inaudible 36:37.1) so that the sales letters just not even necessary like the selling is already been done before I get there.

And this is what emails (inaudible 36:44.4) you do (inaudible 36:45.4) it lets you sell before it is even like you said, the cart opens and it is got to be close in 20 minutes already because it is already sold out.

Jeremy Reeves: Yep, yep. Who is that, I think it is Joe Polish that says, basically the you know, the product and marketing should make -- oh God, what am I trying to say. I am blanking here again, wow, I must be tired. Jesus.

The purpose of marketing is to make selling superfluous you know what I mean.

Ben Settle: That is all (inaudible 37:21.1) actually.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. I mean the purpose of marketing is basically so that when you are going to sell something they are already sold on it regardless of what it is.

Obviously, as long as in touch with what they actually need you know what I mean. It is not like you can go and sell them like a garbage can and then they are going to buy it you know maybe you can, you should do a test. That will be funny. You should put your face on a garbage can. Let us see if it is (inaudible 37:43.2).

Ben Settle: You know Jeremy I have a rather unusual example of this, okay.

I wrote an email about this many years ago that did pretty well.

So I live in Oregon, where it rains a lot. I live in Oregon (inaudible 37:56.8) specifically. (inaudible 37:58.4) it rains like 80 inches of rain a year right. It is raining all the time.

When I first got my dog, she got to go out. I take her out in the rain because I have to take her out and she was just pacing around, sniffing around while I am getting soak and then she get into the position like she is going to take a crap right like a rabbit looking position and then she would like not crap and then she starts sniffing around me and she did that 2 or 3 times. I am out there for 20 minutes during this (inaudible 38:24.2)

And I was like what the hell -- I called it phantom poop like she is acting like she would poop and she did not. Well then it dawned on me -- it did not take a long to dawned on me that -- if I just wait to take her out when she really has to go when like it is like a periscope coming out of her ass (inaudible 38:41.5) it is coming out, she will go right away and I thought isn’t that how it is with selling, like most products (inaudible 38:49.1) are phantom pooping basically. They acting like they are going to buy. They did not look. They did not sniff around a little bit maybe they can see some other options but if you wait to actually pitch them when they are ready to buy it is a much easier to sell.

So I think that goes in line with what Joe Polish is saying.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely and by the way, please tell me that you have written about that in email.

Ben Settle: I did. I wrote about that. In fact, this is an example all the time when I get the (inaudible 38:49.1) because it makes the point.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, it really does. It does.

Well hey man, I have had a blast you know, I have learned a bunch. I am sure a lot of -- I am sure we have broken a lot of paradigms on this especially if you know anybody listening to this has not kind of been indoctrinated by the settle way.

I hope you have kind of shifted some beliefs a little bit you know, I know your stuff gets really good results for a lot of different people in a lot of different industries you know.

I always like to say that because people are like, oh my business is different and it is like, no, no. It is really not.

Are you selling to (inaudible 39:51.5) yes. Okay, well no it is not.

Ben Settle: Yeah. It is not different and you know what that is my whole goal on these things, is you give people options for thinking differently. They do not have to take my option but at least they know that it exist and if they want more they can you know, come to me for more of it.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah and speaking of that you know, before we hop off, tell everybody you know, where they can find you you know, what should they do if they resonate with your -- you know, your style?

Ben Settle: Okay, well, they should go to bensettle.com and if you give me your precious email address. I am not going to promise I am not going to abuse it or anything, but I am going to mail you okay, but if you give me your address, I will send you the first issue of my 97$ a month “Email Players” newsletter which is a prestigious newsletter, but I will send you the PDF of the first issue obviously, like my autoresponder and there are 24 ways in there that you can start making more sales with email (inaudible 40:44.1) right away.

People have told me they made tens of thousands of dollars just with that free issue, it is yours. If you do not give me your email address you can still click through the blog and there is like almost 2,000 pages of articles on there well over a dozen audio hours of audio and video training, all free. it is bensettle.com.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah and that will be in the show notes for everyone listening. So just you know, go in your phone and click in the show notes and you go right there.

Ben it was a pleasure having you on. As always it was entertaining and educational. Thanks for coming on.

Ben Settle: Thank you Jeremy. Good talking to you again too.

Jeremy Reeves: Yep, you too. See you.

Oct 12 2016

41mins

Play

Rank #15: Melinda Chen on Closing High-Ticket Clients

Podcast cover
Read more

In today's episode we dig into the mind of Melinda Chen. Melinda is a MASTER of high-ticket selling... whether you're selling products, services, or anything else! We discuss how to get in front of your perfect target audience, how to make yourself stand out and get the attention of the "higher ups", and how to then close the deal! Plus she even critiques one of MY promotions I'm about to launch to get in front of high-level clients. Enjoy!

  Resources Mentioned

womenmakingbigsales.com

Want To Work With Me?

Visit http://www.JeremyReeves.com or email me at Jeremy@JeremyReeves.com

Enjoy!

Transcript

Jeremy Reeves: Hey everyone, this is Jeremy Reeves with another episode of the sales funnel master podcast and today I am interviewing Melinda Chen and we are going to be talking about how to kind of reach and make sales to really, really high-ticket clients and I think it is going to be a fascinating interview and you know, basically, Melinda has -- she is a founder of Women Making Big Sales so to just give you a little bit of background about her. She has 15 years of background in corporate sales, and in the past 5 years, she has actually reached 8 figures in terms of her sales track record which is unbelievably impressive. That is a lot of stuff to sell in 5 years.

Now she actually helps entrepreneurs. She specializes in helping entrepreneur’s sell and get in front of hard to reach or hard to access decision makers and to find those big you know, kind of whale clients that we all want to get in front of and not only get in front of, but actually have the you know, the authority and positioning to actually make a sale to because -- we will get in to all the reasons why we should be doing that, there are about a billion all of them which we will go through, but Melinda, how are you.

Melinda Chen: Yes, hi Jeremy, I am very good.

Jeremy Reeves: Sounds good. Sounds good. So I did a really quick you know, intro of you, just to kind of give everybody a quick little background, but tell us a little bit about your story you know, who you are, who you help, what you do, all that kind of good stuff.

Melinda Chen: Yeah. Sure. Sure. I really started selling. I go into trade show since I was age 15. I grew up in a very entrepreneurial family and my parents they have got their business. So by the time I started knowing how to speak English because I was an Asian descent, so by the time I was speaking English relatively well, my dad figured, oh perfect, she will be the perfect translator for business meetings and go into trade shows.

So he take me to trade shows and I loved it. I love the energy. I love all the creativity that came with it. So that is when I decided to keep doing -- keep staying in business and keep doing sales.

Then I graduated from the university. I got my first job as international sales manager and that was really my official sales job, selling educational products to agents around the world, Brazil, Korea, Europe, and I have really realized that wow, there is a logical (inaudible 2:29.4) about sales especially when you are dealing with people who has got a 20 years of experience in sales and I just graduated from university. So I was like, 22 like fresh meat to these sales agents, right.

And then I started really reading lots of books about sales and I did a lot of cold calls. I did about you know, throughout my whole sales career, I have done about 5,000 cold calls.

So really, just to refine those sales skills and eventually master my own art of selling and most importantly is that I really felt -- I love the challenge of getting the really hard to reach big clients and the decision makers.

So right now, I help entrepreneurs reach those client and sell to big client.

Jeremy Reeves: Awesome. Yeah, that is really cool. It is a very unique background. You get started really early. That is awesome.

So you know, what start with because you know, everybody, anybody listening to this and I also want to say, a lot of this is going to apply most of it is going to be the most relevant to anybody in the service industry, but if you are selling any kind of product, this is also very, very, very relevant.

For example, you know, I have been thinking a lot of my clients that you know, they are selling whatever, a couple $100 products, but then one of the things that I helped them with is implementing something like you know, somebody’s -- their highest sales is like just a $500.

One of the fastest ways to grow your business is putting in -- I called it a freedom offer you know, because you only have to sell a couple of them to give yourself freedom.

So I always look and say, okay, what can we -- can we take your highest priced even if it is a product or service whatever it is and 10 times it gives something you know, so if you are selling your highest price is $500 what can we sell for $5,000 you know and so if you are in that position or if you want to be in that position I also want to make sure that you are paying really close attention to this because what we are going to go over covers all that to. It is not just that you are in the service industry.

Melinda Chen: Oh yes, definitely.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. I want to give that a really quick kind of disclaimer just so people are not saying well I am not a service provider, so therefore, you know, this is not going to be relevant to me and even if you are selling products you should be have some kind of service anyway so you know, it should be relevant to everybody.

So the first thing I would like to start with is the advantages you know, what are the reasons in your mind for going after these you know, these big high-ticket clients versus going after you know, going after the lower quantity buy higher quality clients versus higher quantity and lower or you know, lower price but more clients.

Melinda Chen: Yeah, I like to tell people that -- I understand if a lot of people when they started out and they want to go for that, those low hanging fruit, but you should always target big clients because especially if you have a product, and there is a lot of things about I mean it depends on whether you have online product or actual physical products, but the (inaudible 5:33.9) scale is very important especially when you have physical product, you said, oh, I am just going to sell things cheap and sell a lot of quantity, but you get to work with big clients. The cost to acquire small client is actually a lot higher than cost you acquire big clients because the cost to acquire big clients takes a lot of relation building.

Yeah, it does take a lot of time to build that relationship, but they tend to be more stable. There is a lot of -- if you can shape your business the right way then you get a lot of repeat business, but if you are working with small business, a lot of times, you know, they tend to be a little bit more unstable, so depending on the clients or the business industry you are in, but you would reach a (inaudible 6:18.9) after small clients.

So how do (inaudible 6:21.7) after small client. A lot of times, either you do advertising, the marketing. So you are basically giving a lot of money to Facebook, Twitter, and linkedin. They love that. I mean social medial platform, they love this you know. They love small entrepreneurs keep doing advertising with them. (inaudible 6:40.0) the cost to acquire small client proportionally actually a lot higher than getting big clients.

So a lot of small clients I understand that or small entrepreneurs I understand that they might say, oh, I want to start off you know going after smaller clients, but you should always keep in mind that you have to go for big clients for you to actually make that significant freedom if we were talking about or profit because eventually you have to stop wasting your money on small clients, your money and time on small clients.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, and you know, that actually comes back -- I have been talking, actually the last couple episodes. I cannot even remember off the top of my head if they are live or not. I remember recording them. I forgot if they are live or not, but one of the things that I have been talking about recently is, how much more valuable a repeat customer is, like a higher value customer, because you know, the first time you sell a product or service, you have all that cost that goes into acquiring that you know, the client or the customer and then, but then the second time, you do not have that cost you know, so all of your marketing cost is only in that first kind of you know, the acquiring of them, but not the second time or the third time or the tenth time.

So you know, your profit margin is going way, way up as you work with them longer and I think bigger clients are much more in the position to you know, you are going to get not only bigger first time projects, but repeat projects because they have more going on you know what I mean. Would you agree with that?

Melinda Chen: Yes, definitely. I mean we can talk more about big clients and how the psychology of big clients, but definitely you know, it is the repeatable business is one huge advantage to working with big client and they tend to have very small circle of the people they work with. So most likely you can get referrals to other big clients.

So just think about your business, do you want to keep having small client and they refer you more small client or would you like to have one big client and they are happy with you and they refer you to other big clients, and you know, I tell a lot of small entrepreneurs is that if you do not do it right now, 6 months from now on or a year from now on you still be chasing after small clients. You still be working 10 hours a day trying to go after those small clients if you do not go after big clients right now.

Jeremy Reeves: Definitely, definitely. So you know, what are the things like I can hear people listening to this and say, yeah, but you know, Melinda, it is really you know, it is really scary going after these big clients, you know, I am -- maybe you know, maybe they do not have the experience or they have the experience, but they do not have the confidence you know, in themselves, in the results that they produced to go after these big clients you know, so what are -- you know, how do you overcome that like, that fear you know, to going after these big clients.

I remember you know, when I, I mean this is years and years ago, but when I first started going out to bigger clients you know myself, I remember having that kind of trepidation you know that nervousness of oh my God, what if one of them actually says yes, you know what I mean.

How do you help your clients overcome that fear of actually kind of getting started.

Melinda Chen: Yeah, well, I called it a big client muscle. I see myself a little bit like the fitness coach. What we are teaching a lot of times is, it is not necessary revolutionary, but it is like trying to get fit you know, you have a step-by-step process of how to get fit. The same thing with (inaudible 10:22.3) training is that we have a step-by-step process. So you know what to expect. You know that okay, today, we are trying to get a leads and (inaudible 10:30.5) are the few activities we are doing to get a lead and we focus on the activities themselves and also we start by doing it.

So we take baby step you know, today, yes, we understand. We are not trying to call the biggest client today and then ask for a business, but we are going to (inaudible 10:48.7) with some really influential people today and that just go by talking to them, propose your value proposition and share your ideas with them.

So slowly -- I think it is almost like when people step into a dark room, they do not know what to expect, they do not know what is in it, spiders or you know, mouse, whatever. People naturally get scared, but you know, if you turn on the light and just show people that you know, there is a step-by-step process and also you know, just take baby step, the fear to selling to big clients will naturally reduce, but I also like to share with you is that I being a corporate sales for 15 years and the reality is that I sell every single day and when I send an email to a client, before I send it like I am excited they have like he is so going to love it. This is a great offer why would he like it, but the moment I press that send, I am like, no, he is never going to write me back.

Jeremy Reeves: I have had an exact experience.

Melinda Chen: Oh, it is like you are so excited like, oh I have got great idea, he is so going to love it, but then you pressed it and there is the doubt of fear, but the reality we all have it and the difference is like I still do it, I still have that, no I said, when I (inaudible 12:08.0) to see oh, I am like, why the heck is the CEO going to reply to me, but now, I recognize it. I said, well, it is only natural. Melinda, you always have this kind of thing. You always think about it, go walk around, call your coach or call your -- the people you work with and you know that you are going to feel better 2 days from now. Just you know, let it sit and so I think that fear is only natural because it is (inaudible 12:33.6) and I am not going to sugar coat it and say listen you know, you are not going to have fear selling to big clients, the most realistic way is that you will have that fear but the difference is that you are going to now you realize that everybody has that kind of fear one way or another and it is just simply recognize it and then just let it sit and say, okay, let us wait for 2 days and let us see what happens and at the same time you know what to do in terms of the next step.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, and you know what, in my career with the people that know all the things that I do, I am just kind of known as someone who sees the fear, faces the fear, and then does it anyway. My mom, every time I tell her like things that I am doing that are like you know, semi-crazy, she is always like, Jer, I do not understand how you can actually get pass the fear you know, and for me, it is kind of trained because I just always done it. I am someone who you know, I just do not care, you know what I mean. I have a very thick skin I guess, but you know, but I was not always like that.

I remember starting off in my career and I mean it was nerve racking you know, it is horrible, but the more you do it and you realized, hey, things did not go so bad you know, even in the case like this, it is like you know, you are afraid of what they are going to say, how they are going to react you know, they are going to tell you that you are worthless or you know, whatever it is that you are afraid of, it never happens you know what I mean. It never does and it is just that sense of being able to feel it and do it anyway you know, and then just sit on and see what happens you know.

Melinda Chen: See what happens and then you know, I think especially when approaching big clients you need to build a relationship and then the referrals, the introduction. So basically, you need to get in the circle and the fact that you know, you have already build that preparation, you have already had the preparation and you got introduced and then it is a softer contact then you know, we are not talking about just cold calling the CEO.

So to really have you know, just slowly getting to this entourage it also ease up the fear of selling to this person because eventually you will start to feel that oh you know, I think I kind of know this person because I have done so much preparation trying to work with this person.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely. You know what, I can tell you from personal experience that, in fact, actually this just happened today, somebody emailed me requesting to be I guess on the podcast and I can actually tell I was so impressed because she started off the conversation by, hey, I just read this value and then I read this and I love how you talked about this and this and this and I listened to a podcast, I loved how you brought up this topic and blah, blah and I could tell I mean it seemed like she (inaudible 15:35.7) 3 hours of research and I was so impressed because normally it is dear sir/madam, you know, blah, blah it is like really, you know, they get deleted instantly.

So I think a lot of is just about doing research and even if I think that overcomes a lot of anxiety that you have like when even if they can tell you are a little bit nervous when you first get in touch it is like hey you know what, they actually did the research and it almost, it almost creates like sort of like a (inaudible 16:08.1) like you almost -- if somebody you know, get in touch with you and you can tell they researched you and spent a lot of their time really putting a thought and effort into whatever it is a call or an email or direct mail, whatever you are doing, you almost feel obligated to at least give them you know, a couple of minutes to hear their you know, their elevator speech.

Do you agree with that? Do you think that is you know, kind of part of what happens is how people react to that.

Melinda Chen: Oh yeah, definitely. I agree with that 100%. The one of the best strategy that I always used is show do not tell, and show by I mean we are constantly doing this communication, a lot of people asked me so how do you show without telling. I mean when you are emailing then you automatically telling something, but this example when you mentioned about the person trying to pitch getting to your podcast is a very good example. In fact, they are showing that they are the person who would do the hard work. They would do the research. So when approaching the client, I would tell people you know, I mean, there are a lot of different ways and process, but one of really great way to talk about it is talk about their competitor. If you know the name, the decision maker of you know, obviously, you are trying to work with this person, but you (inaudible 17:22.1) in the email conversation you not casually mention the decision maker of their direct competitor then it is showing, very quickly showing that you know that you (inaudible 17:33.6) you know that inside out of the industry.

So (inaudible 17:36.4) that kind of basically doing the research, a lot of research before the call to show that you know, you have done research about this company and about this client and you understand their business priorities. That is worth a lot more than telling them oh here is my valid preposition.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, I love that, I love that. Actually, we are going to talk about a campaign that I am putting together right now, it is actually on my list this week to finalize. I have like 6 giant boxes of things I am going to be sending out to people. Yeah, we will talk about that in a couple of minutes, but yeah, I mean it really goes right along and actually, I actually so -- let me bring it back to an actual thing that I did, this was, maybe 4 or 5 years ago, and there was -- yeah, I think it was about 2010 or 2011 something like that, give or take.

And there was a really kind of heavy hitter in my industry that was looking for a copywriter, so my thought was, alright, this guy, I know that a lot of other copywriters are going to see this so how do I standout you know. How do I make myself so he gets my message and it is like oh my God, I have to talk to this person.

So what I did was I got to know his business. I actually made him a personal video to him, it was not like, oh I made you a personal video and then it is the same thing to everybody, it was actually like, I actually address them by name. I talked about his website and it was a video. I put it on a page and then I send him a big giant like 3 foot 2 mail and then you pull that out, a big piece sheet of paper and it was like a message on there with the URL and then he went to the you know, to URL and it was a video of me talking to him.

And that client ended up being worth, I think it was about $120,000 over 2ish year period.

And I think you know, I remember he told me he was like I was so impressed you know, you made a video for me specifically and he actually showed his entire office and he said, guys, this is the stuff we need to be doing you know what I mean.

Yeah, I agree with the you know, the more you talk about like just not sending out you know, blank you know, kind of just general messages. I mean, it is really, just a marketing principle you know. We are heading you know, in terms of personalization you know, I have so many tests that I have been doing in my clients with segmentation, personalization, and the more you can talk specifically to that person, whether it is a high value or not, the higher your sales go and I think it is especially important with you know, with these really high techie clients when you are going after you know, the really like the decision makers you know in the companies.

Melinda Chen: Yeah, yeah. I think especially the decision makers and that is why there is you know, there is, right now a lot of well going back to a lot of people talking about social selling and how you -- you know, it is going to replay selling itself. I think it presents an opportunity because there are more and more people. They are trying to automate everything but if you can really prove or you can contact these big client and using a lot of personal touch and then a lot of research, I mean we are in this age that there is so much information just right out there publicly for us to grab, you get to pick up important information and show it to this big client, it is so easy to stand out because everybody is trying to automate and everybody is just trying to just do the easy way and there are a couple of you know, so many things that we can do just simply stand out.

Jeremy Reeves: Definitely, definitely. So let us talk about how you actually get in front of clients, so you know, you did the research, maybe you actually you know, maybe I do not know, you make like a spreadsheet or something like that of the clients that you want to reach out to whatever your kind of prep work is, and then you did. You have your list of let us just say it is 100 people you want to reach out to or 50 or 10 or whatever it is, let us just say 50, just so it is a manageable number.

So you go, you do your research on all of them and then it is time to actually get in front of them. So what do you recommend. What are some of the things that you have done either yourself or your clients or whatever to actually get in front of the client. Do you -- you know, do you send cold emails. Do you just call them. Do you do direct mail, you know, what are some of the things that you guys do.

Melinda Chen: Yeah, well the first thing I like to highlight is that there are 2 different role, and today we are targeting with the entrepreneurs. I think it is very different if somebody is a sales person like a B to B sales person or you know, or just general sales person, all they have to do is sell you know, I can say, you know pick 100 names, 200 names and she was your sale target, let us call it, let us you know, use softwares, Twitter, Facebook whatever to connect with your big clients, but I think you know, with your podcast, I think we are addressing those people who are entrepreneurs and who do not have you know 7 hour a day to just sell. I mean we have other things to do you know, it is not just selling although it (inaudible 22:45.8) the most important aspect of business, but you got to do the operational side, the (inaudible 22:50.4) existing clients.

So what I would recommend the first most important thing, the absolutely most important thing for an entrepreneur or solo entrepreneur is that should be very target at in terms who you want to sell and the reality is that you cannot target a 100 big clients at one time because then there is no way that you are going to provide personal -- I mean, then it is a give and take, I mean you will be able to provide some kind of personal, but it is never really that personal kind of attention to those big clients. So that is one thing I really cautioned is that do not target 100 clients.

If you have like a list of 100 then try to narrow it down and then usually if you have that list, what we build is, we called it 2 x 5 formula. So the two, the first two is the prep work, the prep (inaudible 23:45.2) work as absolutely especially with the big clients, use your 100% of your energy to bind the introduction into this client.

So in fact, I would recommend -- personally, I would recommend the first 1 or 2 months focus on building relationship with their entourage and then also we create you know, connection map, it is like a mind map, except it is a connection map, whose connected to whom because regardless of what industry you are in I mean I have sold around the world as I mentioned before South America, North America, Asia, Europe whatever industry (inaudible 24:19.2) different industries. Once you are talking to the big, big clients they all know each other. It is a very, very small world.

So go dig into the linkedin profiles. Look to you know, first of all, obviously, the first thing is you have to make sure what target, either you are targeting you know big time speakers or you know, big buyers with certain industries then really dig into their linkedin and Twitter. See who they are connected to. Most likely is that those people they always use similar service providers.

For example, you know, if you are social manager (inaudible 24:55.4) try to find who are the big PR managers they are working with, because most likely they are working with the -- I mean you are already working with some of the big clients (inaudible 25:04.7) that everybody kind of just what you know, especially big guys, they like to keep their (inaudible 25:10.8) and they like to keep working with similar people or thing, same group of people. Big clients are extremely (inaudible 25:18.3) so what I would recommend is that build that connection or relationship map.

So just take the -- take linkedin and use any mind map or other kind of mind map on the website, there is one I loved and then start drafting this relationship map and figure out what kind of a (inaudible 25:39.4) always go to. Who do they should work with. The service provider (inaudible 25:44.8) always work with then start building relationship with the service provider first. If you want to focus on startup companies, incubators, is there any big name incubators in (inaudible 25:56.5) you know somehow you could provide value to and those are usually what I would really recommend is to connect with these people who are the (inaudible 26:06.8) of influence with people you want to target because the moment that you build trust with them then I mean this is what happened now when I went to get another client is they close on the people I know really well and interest you. I give them a call and say you know, here is what I am thinking you know, here is a few ideas I have for the upcoming project, what do you think and then we start talking about industry.

And what do you mean by talking about industry, basically, you know, we are going to share (inaudible 26:31.7) who might be interested in this, who would this project be useful to.

So this is extremely you know, extremely important thing is fill that relationship map and then start to provide you know building values.

So that is it. We are back to 2-5 formula so that you would be creating at least 2 soft contact with the decision maker and then we do the 5 official contacts and why do I -- instead of saying, oh, do we cold email this decision maker or do we send a cold call or things like that. I want you to tell people try to (inaudible 27:12.4) at least 5 different contacts. So it could be a simple I mean you know, we all know this you know, simple like on Facebook or you know providing some kind of value or maybe meet with the person in the networking or bands and things like that, but the moment you build that 5 then you know that you are -- you know, your whole sales relationship is not going to rely on one simple sales phone call.

Jeremy Reeves: Okay, got you. I love that.

Melinda Chen: You know, so keep you know, (inaudible 27:38.8) formulate that and focus on the first they know you, like you, and then trust you and then slowly build -- you know fill that before you even talk to the person and maybe I am pessimist but I say most likely the first time you contact this person he is not going to say yes to your offer no matter how great your valued proposition is or your elevator speech is.

So plan 5 different contacts so that you slowly bring the client to the final sale speech and it is a very simple way but also just simply have that plan out will ease people’s mind about selling, about you know, oh, you know, he is definitely going to say no, but you are not asking him whether he would need to (inaudible 28:24.3) have this officials sales meeting yet, you are simply saying, hey, you know, here is the quick information about me or I thought this would be interesting and that will be it.

So no pressure and once you have the process you are not going to continue focus on this one specific client, but you do this with other clients and then slowly build that relationship.

Jeremy Reeves: Nice, yeah, I love that. So as you are building, as you are providing these people value, you are getting to know them, they are not going to -- there is no resistance, there is no sales resistance because there is no sales you know at this point.

So they are starting to trust you. They are starting to kind of understand you, you know, you are familiar to them. When and I know this is kind of a generic thing because there is no like oh you know, you do it 4 days after the first or whatever, but if like in general, when is the good time to start then transitioning from okay you know, we kind of built the relationship to you know, transitioning into the you know sales mode you know so to speak.

Melinda Chen: I think when -- this happens actually this sales mode or this transitional mode, we would be planning it right at the beginning. When people are trying to figure out you know, what kind of client they wanted to focus and what their value proposition is, I always tell people it is not just the value proposition, in fact, trigger events that is a lot more important than the value proposition.

I am not saying that you are not providing value. I am hoping that you are providing a legitimate value to this client because if you are not, you know, that is never going to work from my experience. You got to be providing some real benefits to big clients, but also, the trigger events. What it means that right before at the beginning is that every industry is seasonal. So you have to plan what seasonal about the industry you are targeting.

My favorite example would be the product base companies, Christmas shopping season, it is a hectic season and even big clients there is always something late about their planning you know, either there are 2 PR. I have worked with PR companies that PR agent they were able to get big clients because they just simply target the fashion company that did not get into the Christmas shopping list on magazines.

Jeremy Reeves: Got you, okay.

Melinda Chen: So if the trigger events, what are the trigger events that really impact the industry and if you can really focus on that then when you are building (inaudible 30:57.9) like and things like that once the trigger events hit and you have already planned it ahead of time you know what are the important things, a lot of times you know, incubators you know, startup companies there is time to apply for incubating program. There is speaker, the speaker seasons. Coaches, there is always sales season. So you have to know your trigger events.

So once you build that relationship now you got your benefit and you got a trigger event, then you find the people who needs help during those hectic season who are late doing the things that you can offer then it becomes a very natural we are not even selling, you are just calling you know, and say, Hey Jeremy, I know the important day is coming up and I have not seen your information, your product on any social media what is going on.

Jeremy Reeves: Nice. Yeah, and I actually use that approach in a similar way, but slightly different way and that I am really good at taking what people already have and finding the holes in their marketing and then filling those holes.

You know, for example, one of my clients, I reached out to him and he had like a monthly you know membership program and I just reached out to him and I said, hey, his name is Mark and I said, Hey Mark, I have never seen you know, anything on your website like trying to take people from your monthly program to a yearly.

I am like you know, what would you say, what if we you know, what if I do a promotion for you and just simply taking people on your monthly you know program and offering them a yearly plan and you know, I would not charge anything and blah, blah, just be percentage of the people that upgrade you know, and it works you know, and he was like okay you know, there is no risk in it for me, you are doing all the work, I never thought of that idea and it sounds like a good idea because it was actually good timing because he need it like a patch infusion to reinvest back into his product. He is very like techie kind of thing, say he buy a whole bunch of equipment, stuff like that.

You know, and we did it and it was a huge, huge success you know, he made a ton of money. I made a ton of money and it was awesome. So it is a similar thing like it was -- it was not really a seasonal thing, but it was a like a weakness I guess you know you can call it in his business you know, but yeah, I love that you know, there really is, there is a lot of -- you know, most businesses have something like that even if you know, could be seasonal, a lot of businesses are seasonal or it could be if it is not seasonal, it could be something like that where it is more of like a weakness and you just kind of fill that gap you know.

Melinda Chen: Yeah, I love -- I mean there is nothing more than calling a client and say that and listen, do you know what your competitors are doing right now.

You know and then that is just a very simple and again you know, it (inaudible 33:53.1) it does not feel like you are selling the person, but you know, you are really trying to first of all provide the value and have this in cycle conversation and people at this point the big clients are going to figure out that you know, you are not just trying to always repeat it your value proposition and then just go through the same thing. You are really providing insightful information about the industry they are interested in and let us face it, big clients are very competitive. They love to know what happens with their competitors, so it is a great conversation breaker.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely. So let me ask you this. Have you ever tried and this goes back to my promotion that I am about to test out probably next week I would say, because I am going to finalize it this week, but then I still to do all the research and all that stuff beforehand.

Have you ever tried anything with direct mail to reach out big clients?

Melinda Chen: Direct mail, I have never -- I mean I have done a lot of cold calls. I have done direct mails, I do not know how many (inaudible 34:57.6) out but probably in a smallest scales, I have, I would not say I have the most success with, but yeah, I have done it.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. So what I am doing basically is I am putting the other list a very you know, a very targeted list, I know the market really well, all that kind of stuff. I mean I could probably list off you know 30 people off on top of my head then (inaudible 35:26.1) send it out to.

I got to do like 10 weeks, but basically -- yeah, yeah you know, just kind of you know, put it into our current you know, kind of marketing plan that we are doing every week.

So what I am doing is I am doing a thing called lump email and I have this -- I came up with -- I bought these treasure chests right and they are like 5 inches long I do not roughly 3 inches high something like that, I like to have fun with Mark.

Those are all the boxes that we got by the way, I bought 100 of them and you know so they came in like --

Melinda Chen: You must have a pretty good warehouse.

Jeremy Reeves: Well, it is actually in my basement. Yeah, so there are all down there and I actually gave 1 each to each of my boys, I have 2 and a 4 year old, so they each got a treasure chest you know, and so basically, what I am doing is building a list of people in a very specific you know target audience that I have already gotten results before you know, a lot of people in that industry already know me that kind of thing and I am sending it to them. Now, my audience is going to be a little bit different than like really high like super high-end corporate you know, where there is like you know, the hierarchies like 85,000 people you know, mine are typically you know somewhere between -- yeah like between like 5 to 20 employees you know, in that range because a lot of -- you know, this industry, they do not need tons of employees to you know, to go up into like that.

You know my target is mostly in 7 figure range you know, that is kind of -- even like once you hit like $10m it starts getting a little bit too high because then they are starting to get like full-time copywriters and stuff like that.

So what I am doing is you send in the treasure chest you know, in the mail with a letter from me inside the chest and then there is a little lock on it with a key and everything and then we made this whole like story, awesome story and the value proposition are the you know, the offer is basically you know, instead of like, hey you know, call and let’s do a project. It is essentially like, Hey, you know, we are tying in the whole treasure chest thing to you know, you have revenue that is kind of buried beneath the sand and I am like you know, let us get on to quick 30-minute call, I ask you some questions and I will help find some of that revenue for you without mentioning like doing projects together anything like that.

What do you think of that approach? Do you think I am missing anything? Do you think I should add anything else and you know, it is a little bit outside of what you normally do.

Melinda Chen: Well I first of all, I do not really know your business but who are those treasure chest addressed to? Are they directly addressed to the founder or the marketing managers, the founders.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, the founders, yep.

Melinda Chen: And the value you are providing you basically just asking them that you know, you would like to set up a 30-minute call with them right.

Did you write any case studies or what competitive did and then what I meant is that big clients or I mean we are not talking about just corporate clients but the successful people, they are very money driven and I do not know in your letter or inside the treasure chest if you have some kind of thing to you know, you can talk about case study and just very quick you know.

Did you know that after speaking with somebody and we uncovered because the whole point is about uncovering right and convert a specific amount of missing profit.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, so what I am doing, I actually guarantee them that I am going to show them how to increase by a certain amount and then also the weather itself is going to be like you know, like who I am and why I am getting in touch and all that is 2 pages and then I am going to have a another 4 pages just of case studies, just 4 like straight pages of all case studies, more for just like kind of overwhelming proof you know what I mean.

Melinda Chen: I mean, obviously, they know you personally already. Are these people, they already know you?

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, they either they know me, a lot of them have probably heard of me. Most of the clients that I worked with in this industry, when they get in touch, they have heard about me from usually one of their competitors because like you said, you know, a lot of the people in the same industry know each other, they talk to each other, they masterminds together you know, that kind of thing.

So they have either heard of me somewhere. A lot of them read the same blogs and podcast things like that and so they have heard me on air and so they have -- most of them will have if not all, will have at least some kind of recollection of me you know.

Melinda Chen: And how do you plan out that following up. Do you plan on sending a quick email or just a --

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, and that is one question I actually did not even think of that until you were talking about linkedin before. That idea, if you heard me typing before, I was actually writing down the idea.

So that was, I kind of just (inaudible 40:54.2) as you were talking was send that out and then a couple of days after I send it follow over them on linkedin and say, hey you know, I send you package a couple of days hope you got it you know, if you have any question let me know you know, whatever.

I have not quite thought through the linkedin message yet, but yeah, probably on linkedin, a lot of the people I am probably already connected with you know, that kind of thing.

Melinda Chen: Okay, and then do you -- I am assuming that you want to make this. So this is -- you really want to have as dramatic impact as possible right for this. I mean it would not hurt that you know, for me, I mean it is already a very unique idea, but if -- because I do not know the kind of service you will be providing, but if you really want to build that kind of expectation, I would assume that you are going to send this out to the founder. If you are sending this addressing directly to the founder, it does not hurt to really start on if who else will be involved in this decision making.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, that is a good idea. So most of them, I would say probably 90 I mean easily 90% plus of the time, when I am talking to these clients on the phone it is the founder themselves because again you know, again, it is not my kind of sweet spot is like you know, the one the $10M range you know, but it is not like a big you know, like I just did a project for $300m company, but that was a very rare you know, project.

So most of them are somewhere the range between like $500,000 or like $10M or so you know and then yeah, so it is you know, it probably will go to the founder, there might be some exceptions to that like for example, the client that I got a couple of years ago that I mentioned earlier that ended up like the secretary got it but then she passed it to him you know what I mean.

Melinda Chen: Well, I mean, what I would do because and you still want to a lot of them I assumed that they kind of still know you and then you want to really bring forth that like I mean the trust would probably go into the case study and the letter you are writing and especially your online presence and your website, but at the same time, you want to really bring forth that like and know you kind of factor.

So it would not be a bad idea to really figure out who might being bought in this decision making. I mean, it does not mean that they will make that final decision, but for example, if they have a couple marketing people, they really work with social medial, people they work with, send a quick email, right before you send this and say by the way, I am about to send really cool stuff to so and so.

Just want to let you know it is going to be pretty cool look forward to hearing from you and you know, just get people talking to make sure that it is not going to be something that is going to be dismissed or what is even more -- I mean we can talk more after the call. If you really want to get even stronger impact is that you cannot even say that and listen, I am about to (inaudible 43:53.6) it is going to be a limited time offer because I only have not much time, but I am sending this not only to you (inaudible 43:59.4) also to the competitors.

That really boost your authority because you are really doing this something big. He wants people to start talking loud. Jeremy is -- he is launching his marketing campaign rather than just get it, okay, I mean it is a great idea, do not get me wrong. It is really much better idea than sending email, but if you really I mean, since you have already spent so much time you know, creating this marketing thing does not hurt to start. Also, send quick message or linkedin to anybody who might be working with them or to them just say, hey, listen, I will be sending you know largely my marketing campaign. I look forward to see how you -- you make it casual and say, hey, (inaudible 44:41.8) to everybody listen, everybody is going to get and feel free to laugh at me or you know make it you know, make it so that we still (inaudible 44:51.1) you build that like and trust.

I mean you have already come out with somebody who is a bit daredevil. You said you will always love to try something new. Make sure they know you and then all of the sudden that is really personal because everybody is like I do not know what Jeremy is coming up with, but he is coming with something and we will see what it is and then most likely we (inaudible 45:11.0) Facebook or linkedin response you know, have fun with it and then you can talk business.

Jeremy Reeves: Nice, yeah I like that. I like the, I think that is very good advise because it is you know, it is kind of the same thing you know, a lot of times I used things like text messaging you know for like automated text messaging.

So for example you know, one of the things we do with webinars are -- let us just say that the webinar starting at I do not know at 2:00. You can send people a text message or like 130 and then it is like, Hey, quick reminder, you know, the webinar starts in half hour and that boost response rate you know because you are kind of just getting their attention and it is a similar kind of concept with that. It is different but it is you know, it is kind of similar project. I like that. I actually --

Melinda Chen: Yeah, and then I mean mostly especially if you really have to (inaudible 46:02.4) with it, you probably get a couple (inaudible 46:05.3) of you trying to fit anyway. Did you see (inaudible 46:07.1). Hopefully, you get a couple of short messages back and say (inaudible 46:13.3) and people always love to have a little bit of humor, I hope, some (inaudible 46:18.1) and then yeah.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, and especially my clients, I have a lot of fun with my Mark. I mean I you know I go out drinking with a lot of them and so I really have a lot of fun with my clients and I have actually turned down clients because I did not like their personalities.

You know, --

Melinda Chen: No, I get it, I get it (inaudible 46:37.4) if you do not have the right vibe it is just never going to be a long lasting relationship.

Jeremy Reeves: Definitely, definitely. I like that and I can definitely because you know, a lot of them (inaudible 46:45.3) I am going to know their business is and that kind of thing so I can make it send them a really personal message even before they get it and then they are like what the hell is he going to send me now you know.

You know, I can even put it like if they have kids you know, something you know make sure you give it to your kids after you are done looking at (inaudible 46:59.9) or something like that.

Melinda Chen: Yeah, exactly I mean then they really build that expectation and they might be asking their receptionist for that package of, making sure that the reception does not just burn it by (inaudible 47:12.7) or something.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah. I should put that on the package, like do not open in front of your children, something like that.

That message may be interpreted in different ways and -- but yeah so thanks for that. I hope everybody enjoyed -- I did that not only because I am curious myself to see how would you take your concepts because the way you approach is totally different and I always like we are talking about before the call, I always like to take different concepts and different ways of doing business and they kind of meld in together you know and I think that is really hopefully everybody got a lot out of that me and you just kind of going back and forth and brainstorming on that. I know I got a lot out of it.

Melinda Chen: I have a lot of fun so, I mean I am going to try this you know, treasure chest thing not on my kids but on my clients.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, yeah. It is a really, really good kind of fun way to get in touch, get in front of people you know, it definitely gets their attention you know what I mean.

Alright, so with that said, you know, is there anything else that I did not ask about you know, I feel like I let you down if I did not ask you a question you know, something that you want to make sure that people really understand you know before we hop off.

Melinda Chen: I think one thing is that there is -- we are back to have this process is really for entrepreneurs and I think it is important to recognize that focus -- a lot of times theory and what we could do is one thing, but really to have your daily habit and then creating the sales routine is a lot more important than how you want to approach it. I mean it is one thing to have one interesting marketing idea, but as you know, you are going to follow up and you are going to continue following up.

So I think that is a lot more important and challenging for entrepreneurs when we are managing so many things. Yeah, that is basically it and if people want to reach me, they can visit my website womenmakingbigsales.com. I do not just work with women, but I am a woman. Yeah, and they can also visit my Facebook page, Women Making Big Sales.

Jeremy Reeves: Sounds good. Yeah, and I will make sure all those links are in the show notes. So yeah, if anybody is interested in reaching out to Melinda you know, to get in touch, work with her you know, kind of you know, start a relationship, then you know, just kind of click if you are listening in your phone or whatever, just look through the show notes and they will be in there.

Yeah, that is it. Melinda, I really appreciate you coming on. It was a fantastic call. I know I learned a lot. I actually took a whole bunch of notes. If people heard me typing that is what I was doing. Yeah, I really appreciate it. I think it is a very -- it is a very important topic because it is something that anybody and you know, most people listening to this should be doing and if you are not, I mean, you are -- you know, I can tell you from personal experience you are missing out on a lot of money and also not even just you know, I know we have talked a lot about like the money aspect of this, but it is also stress to I mean -- yeah, I mean I do not know if you have this experience, but I know like in my business the more money somebody pays me, the less of the hassle they are you know what I mean, because it is you know, a lot of people and you know, it make sense because like if you are really struggling for money and you give somebody whatever it is, a couple thousand dollars, whatever it is and that is a lot of money to you then you are going to be really nervous and anxious about it and that is you know, I mean it is totally normal, but if you are you know, if you are a bigger client if you, you know, if you are doing you know, $50M in sales and then you ask that person for whatever it is, a $10,000 sale or $20,000 even that you know, the difference between what you are asking and their you know how much cash flow they have available so much bigger that they do not -- they trust you more you know and it is just you know, I have known in my business I mean the project show so much more (inaudible 51:32.3) you know what I mean.

Melinda Chen: Yeah, they did not know what they want and there is always very clear vision of how things need to be done instead of oh, I do not know, I am thinking of changing this, oh I might change this you know, I am going to -- and then suddenly decided they are not going to work continue with this project and then you have that stress out, oh no now I have to look for another client.

So you constantly chasing that to small clients and again, paying advertising money to Facebook, Twitter, and linkedin and again, they obviously still very happy about this so.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, you are making (inaudible 52:01.8)

Alright well hey, I really appreciate coming on. Everybody make sure that you go to womenmakingbigsales.com again that link will be in the show notes and yeah, thanks again, we will hopefully see you soon.

Melinda Chen: Thank you Jeremy. Let me know how it goes, the treasure chest, bye.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, I will, bye.

Jun 16 2016

52mins

Play

Rank #16: How To Sell More To Prospects On The Fence

Podcast cover
Read more

Hey guys! In today's episode we discuss MANY ways you can easily steal from me to convert more of your "on the fence" prospects into first time buyers and raving fans. Enjoy!

  Resources Mentioned

iTunes

Transcript:

Jeremy Reeves: Hey everybody Jeremy Reeves here with another episode of The Sales Funnel Mastery Podcast and today I want to talk about a pretty cool product, not product, but I just looked at the word product, but topic and that is called Product Splintering, right.

And I am going to kind of show you -- you know some of you may be familiar with this you know, with this term, it is essentially you know, splintering up a piece of your product and giving it to somebody in a cheaper a price, okay. That is kind of the same -- that is kind of like you know the (inaudible 0:45.5) of it, but I am going to kind of give you a couple different ways that you can take that concept okay and use it in your business you know.

You guys know, one of my main skills I think that I have in my life is that I am able to take ideas from you know, one industry and use it another. I got that actually from J. Abraham, he is kind of the you know, the one that really taught me of that skill and it is you know, comes in handy a lot. I cannot even begin to imagine or to describe how often I may able to use that skill to get better results in business you know. If there is one skill that you really want is to be able to do that because if you look inside your own industry, everybody is you know, it is kind of like incest you know, everybody is kind of doing the same thing, a little bit of (inaudible 1:33.4) there.

But anyway, so, the reason I thought of this right, I just took my dogs to the groomer, okay. Katie is out with the boys, Connor’s therapy and so she has the car and so I had to take the dogs to the groomer.

So on my way back, I have been wanting to try -- there is a coffee place by my house and normally, I have my own coffee you know, I -- like have my own kind of process, I am little bit of a geeky with the you know with coffee you know, I get the whole beans and I have a French press and like this whole big process, so I am kind of picky with it.

So I do not really like things like Dunkin Donuts and Starbucks and that kind of thing just you know, I am just not a huge fan of it you know. I do not know, whatever, but I usually get that, like if I am out, you know, I normally do not get coffee all that much when I am out because I you know, again, I am kind of picky and I usually just make my own or whatever, but there is one coffee place I went in by our house and it is like, this little locally owned you know, it is not a big you know, mass kind of chain store that kind of thing. It is just that you know, there is this nice lady, I was just talking to her and you know, just a small little store you know, it is not a chain, it got all homemade stuff and that kind of thing.

So, I drive by -- this place is probably maybe a quarter of a mile from my house so where we are is basically like I live in a place where were on the maid ave. going through our town, but behind my house there is woods and stuff like that and it is all very you know, kind of naturistic, but then like, literally you go down like a quarter of a mile down the road and there is a big you know, shopping center and there are all kinds of restaurants and shopping places and like all that kind of stuff. So it is an awesome place to be.

So this you know, this lady opens up her coffee store in that little you know, shopping complex and I have been wanting to try it. So, I finally did today right and I love the coffee and the first thing that came to my head was she needs -- because you know, if you think about it, I mean she is -- she is selling coffee right, it is nothing you know, it is nothing unique you know, everybody has coffee. There is like 84, 000 coffee stores usually either something like a Dunkin Donuts or Starbucks you know, there is like 19 of them every town.

So I literally took the first step in the Coffee’s Fantastic. It is going to be my new favorite place to go.

The thought that immediately hit me was this lady needs to get her foot in the door with clients, right.

So I want you to think of -- just think in your head. I am going to give you a second. Think in your head, I am going to give you a little challenge here you know. Think in the head what would you do? So you own a coffee store, there is a Dunkin Donuts, there is Starbucks, all those kinds of things nearby. What would you do to get business, to market yourself right. So I am going to give you a couple of seconds.

I am actually going to take a drink of coffee while you are thinking.

Okay.

So, here is what I came up with right.

What I would do is, I would just get -- I would hire you know -- I would get like a shit of paper like something super cheap little postcard or business card or something like that probably just a business card you can get like freaking 10,000 of them for like $100.

So printed on a business card and just put you know, whatever like you know, we are new, I want you know, we think that we have the best coffee in the Valley, where I live is called the Valley. So we have the best coffee in the valley but I do want you like I know that it is hard to you know, you probably already had your favorite coffee store and the copy would not be this long by the way, this is just kind of off on top of my head, but you know, you probably already have your favorite coffee store and you know, the problem with doing this is that people are set in their ways. You have to break them of the habit that they are in right, to get them to come to you especially with coffee. People have their habits with coffee.

So you have to break them of that habit and what you would essentially say is, hey, all I want you to do is just come in, coffee is on me, you do not have to play a dime, it is totally free and I just want you -- you know, essentially, like hey, if you love the coffee come back you know, if you do not, keep going wherever you are going you know, no hard feelings, that is you know, whatever.

And all she would have to do is get a business card, I do not know -- I mean they are like you know, they are like 10 cents a piece.

So say, you went out to 10,000 people right at 10 cents a piece that is what is that, $100 right.

And say that a half of a percent switched over to you. Well half of a percent of 10,000 people is, let us see, 1% would be 100 so it is 50 people, that is 50 new customers right and the average coffee drinker probably spends I do not know probably you know, just say $30 a month right and it is probably more of that because I think mine was like $2. So you know, that is basic coffee every other day right.

So you know, say you know, $30 a month you get 50 people, that is $1500 a month for spending $100 right and you just keep doing that, you are only risking $100. You are getting $1,500 back right and that is not even including you know, they had donuts and they had you know, biscuits and they had sandwiches and like all those kind of stuff. That is $1,500 well if you did that in you know all the surrounding areas you could very easily get that up to you know $100,000 business right and that is just with that you know, then you can do a whole bunch of other stuff, but that is just with that. That is only at $30 a month which is just probably a little bit low for you know for a coffee place. I mean you know, if you are spending you know $2, $3, or $4 for a coffee I mean it is, you know, it is a very easy to spend $30 a month on coffee.

So that is kind of the way that -- so basically, the whole you know, (inaudible 7:45.8) to that is, if you have something right, and essentially, like I look at it in like a 2 prong approach you know, you do your regular promotions and -- by the way, you can do this even if you have a high end service and I am going to show you how to do this with the service or product and something like a joint venture, right.

So if you have a service, okay, think of what you can do to get your foot in the door, right. What is your foot in the door offer? Okay.

A lot of times with me, you know, I have people and you know, you know that our fees are typically like you know, in the high 4 figures, 5 figures you know, that kind of thing. We are not cheap right.

It is not like you are spending you know $500 or a couple $100 or something on copy like you know, our fees are you know, pretty high up there. They are not you know, not at the top of the industry, but they are you know, they are not inexpensive to someone who you know, is struggling with money, right.

So a lot of times what I do -- essentially, what I do is basically say like you know, I get a lot of people and they are like, look you know, I want to do this funnel, but look, it is like $15,000 or $10,000 or $20,000 or whatever it is and you know, I am just kind of a little bit you know, little bit anxious you know, they are always -- I get this a lot you know, I see other results blah, blah, blah, but you know, I kind of want to see if it works for me and that is totally acceptable. I totally get that you know what I mean that make sense.

So I get some clients that do that and what I will say is, okay, let us figure it out you know, the project is going to be whatever, $10,000 to say and how about lets us just do like one part of it for like you know, $2,000 or something like that and you look at that if you like the copy then we will keep, we will just keep going right and I have done that a lot of times so you can see like rather than them looking at as a $10,000 investment it is now $2,000 right, so it is a fifth of the price and what happens is you know, I have done that with -- oh my God I do not know how many dozens of clients and I am very proud of the fact that I do that you know fairly frequently and I have never once had a single persona that started that process and did not go through with the project, okay.

So if you are selling a high ticket service do not be afraid to offer something lower to get people just to get their foot and get your foot in the door with them with the relationship, okay.

So that is how you can do with the service and same thing with you know, with the coffee shop you know, you are just taking that principle that concept and applying it to a coffee shop. So the coffee shop, the foot in the door is, “Hey, come in and try our free coffee” you know coffee for her it is super cheap I mean it is probably, I do not know 10 cents a cup, something like that.

So you know, it is almost risk-free for her you know, she is spending $100 or $200 to get in front of like 10,000 people you know what I mean.

So that is you know, a kind of another example.

So let us do this with the product.

So you have a product say, it is $200 right. So you have this and you have whatever 8 modules, what you can do with that is for people who you know, you first start off with your best foot forward right.

So you say, hey you know, the product is -- there are 8 modules it is going to teach you how to do XXX and you know it is $200 okay.

So you are going to get a certain percentage of people that are going to say, “Hell yeah, I want that. It is $200, it is going to help me. I am going to buy it.”

Those are the people they are like your hyper buyers essentially because they are going to buy it you know and they will buy it, you do not have to like hassle them you know whatever. There is just going to -- they love you. They love your product. They are going to buy it.

Then you are also going to have the people that are just never going to buy right and who cares about them, they do not you know, they do not matter. Do not talk to them.

On huge strategy by the way while I am here is find out who those people are and then you know in your -- you know, in your ads, in your targeting, in your copy you know exactly who to push away because the farther you push those people away the inverse happens with the people that you know, if they are on the left side and your perfect clients on the right side. Well, if you push away the clients on the left side, guess what happens, the people on the right side come closer to you, you know, they resonate that much stronger. So it is one really you know, important thing to note is that you should do that and find out who is not buying and make sure you are pushing them away because it is going to attract the people that will buy right.

So anyway, going back, you can say, hey look you know, I understand $200 is expensive for you by the way if that is expensive if people are buying it you know, $200 for price. You may want to look at your copy and because it might not be demonstrating enough value right. So just quick little side note there.

But you can say, you know, maybe you follow up them like a 10-day campaign selling the $200 course, they are not buying it then maybe you wait like a week or two weeks and then you can have another campaign that number one, you can give them a free trial or some template like you know, a lower priced trial maybe $200 is like you know, they spend I do not know $10 or something and they get a trial of it or you can say, hey look, I understand that this whole you know, maybe it is too overwhelming, maybe it is you know, maybe you just do not think that you have the time, maybe it is not in his priority, maybe it is the price whatever it is. Why do not you just take one of the modules. See if you resonate with my concept, my message, my you know, my ideas and then if you love it, then you can buy the whole thing right.

So that is what you can do with you know, with products right.

And then another way to do this is -- so I recently -- I have been going after you know, this certain guy, I have been trying to kind of get on his radar for I do not know, it is probably been 2 to 3 years now right and I am a pretty persistent guy you know, if I want to get on somebody’s radar I eventually will it is just kind of the matter of time.

So there is this 1 guy that I have been wanting to kind of partner up with on some things. He is a very, very, very well known marketer. Probably 90 plus percent of the people listening to this podcast read his blog, right. That is where he does most of his market is through his -- he is a very, very, very prolific content marketer, okay. And he has several businesses, they are you know, couple SAS companies, they are all you know, 7 or 8 figures.

So you know, there is a lot going on and I realized that if I partner up with him on some things, they could lead to a lot of different things, right.

So for the last kind of 2 years, I have been you know, just kind of staying in touch, kind of putting my name in front of him that kind of thing.

And you know, recently, I realized that he has a partner you know, in his business that is kind of like his you know, to say his wingman, right.

He is like his you know, his second in command, his right hand man you know that kind of thing.

So I realized that it is probably a lot easier building a relationship with his right hand man than it is with him you know, because he trusts you know, his -- let us just call him his partner just for easy terminology.

He trusts his partner so if I you know, get in good with his partner then therefore I would kind of get into the -- into his whole business and that is exactly what happened, right.

And you know recently, there is you know, we have been in touch of like 4 different ways that were partnering you know, so he is you know, he is sending me clients and we are -- I am actually doing a project for him and you know, there is a life of all these different things and it is because it is the same concept and this what I mean by taking it one concept and applying it in several different ways right.

I am taking that product splintering concept or that foot in the door concept and using it in several different ways. So in this way, you know, I am using my foot in the door was with his partner, okay, because I knew that you know, the way to his -- kind of like you know, when you are dating, you know, the way to the girls heart is through the parents you know what I mean, is through like you know, if you are trying to date a girl you know, talk to her mom you know, become really good like really you know, kind of cuddly whatever with you know, with her mom and then her mom is going to be like, oh you know, Crissy this guy he is so nice, I mean he is handsome and you know that kind of thing. So it is the same thing.

And yes, I mean that is pretty much it. So basically -- kind of a quick recap.

If you are selling a high -- if you are selling any kind of service right and you want to gain access to a huge part of your audience, a huge chunk of your audience that is on the fence right and you want to push them over the fence, do something where you can take a piece of what you normally give clients and give it to them at not reduce rate, you do not want just discount your rates because that is horrible for everybody, but you want to give it to him at a cheaper price by giving them less, but you know, take like, if there is something in your business where you can get them a really good result in a quick way, you know, just give them -- like think of a quick win, it is huge when you are selling your services, okay. The same thing, it does not even matter what you are selling really.

And then products you know, think about free trials or removing a section or anything where you know if people having excuses they are close, they are right on the fence, but they need just that little extra push.

Think of how you can do that.

And then the same thing if you want to get your foot in the door with people right. For joint ventures, affiliates whatever it is, think of little ways just you know, very slowly chipping away adding value to the life it is always about adding value and that is what I was doing with his partner by the way was, I was helping him basically you know, they were coming up with a new funnel and you know, he is like, oh you know, what do you think about this and I went and I say, hey, let me just help you figure this whole thing out, right.

And then you know, when we were done, he is like, alright you know, what do you charge like you know, to actually build this all out for us and I gave him a price and you know, we are getting started this week.

So think of it that way like if you want to get on somebody’s radar, add value to them and just little by little do not go from not knowing them to just jumping in and being like, hey, you know, I am here, I am here, give me business, give me work. I want your money you know, like that is not how -- you know, that is not how you build relationships you know, you first reached out to them just so they recognize you, okay. The first step is recognition right, just so they recognize your name. So comment on their blog you know, send them an email and just say, hey, your recent podcast or your blog was awesome, I really loved it you know, send them a gift.

I can tell you, you know, you guys know I am huge, I love bourbon right. I am not a huge drinker, but when I drink, I really love you know, the different types of alcohol. Like I love craft beers and really good wines and really good bourbon and you know, things like that, like I do not drink that frequently you know, like on the weekends you know, like a normal person, but when I do, I like to drink really good stuff because I love that experience. I am very kind of experiential kind of guy. Same thing with food you know, I love the experience of eating you know, as funny as that sounds you know, I love like you know, the different flavors and the combinations and like I do not know, I just love the whole thing.

So anyway, so if someone sent me you know, like if someone is trying to get on my radar, by the way, I am not saying to do this, but if someone want me to on my radar, if you sent me a bottle of bourbon, you would instantly be my best friend. Like you would, instantly, I would never forget your name right, just from that and it is like whatever like $30 or $40 for a bottle of bourbon.

And that is all it takes you know, just get your name out there and do something so they are going to just recognize you and then you start slowly adding value to their life, right.

I have a lot of copywriters who want you know, they want me to help them in their business and they will reach out to me and say, hey, I do not even want any money, let me just help you with the product. All I want is your feedback, your critique, right. I get that all the time with people. And I have helped a lot of copywriters you know. I have helped a lot of copywriters do that and because it is valuable. I did the same thing when I was just starting copywriter you know, it is a huge strategy and you know, if you are in any kind of like expertise field do that with somebody. If you want to learn really, really fast and you cannot afford to pay someone to be a mentor, just do something for them for free, right.

And of course you know, you have to have like in my case, I have to look at them to make sure their copy is good first, like it has to be kind of up to a certain level first because you know, they are going to write something for them it is going to be awful and I mean, it would take me longer to edit it than it would for me to write it myself you know what I mean. So like there has to be that foundation there first, but you know, I can tell you like I have gotten a lot of free copy because of that and you know, and it is worth for them too because I critique them on the copy and I you know, I helped them kind of through the whole process you know what I mean.

So anyway, that is it for the day you know, I hope this helps. I hope I gave you a lot of things to think about today you know, just a lot of this comes back to just being resourceful you know, a lot of entrepreneurs are like, oh I do not have this or I do not have money, I do not have time, I do not have you know, the resources.

No.

The resources do not matter. What matters is you being resourceful. You do not need that stuff, right. You do not need money to start a business, okay. You do not need expertise to start a business, right. You can start business in any way possible. You can market your product in any way possible. If there is anybody out there right now, saying that they cannot grow because they do not have funds, that is absolute horse shit, I am sorry. It really is you know, and I do not mean to be like insensitive, but I just want you to -- I want you to look at that belief that you need money to grow, okay. I want you to look at that and smash it with a hammer, right, because it is not true, okay. It is not true at all, okay. That is the biggest one, is money and that is why you know, kind of singling that one out.

You do not need money. Money is you know, a byproduct of being successful. You do not need money to become successful. It helps. If you have money, you know, you can speed up the process, you accelerate the process, but you absolutely do not need money to become successful, okay.

And if you -- if that is one of your beliefs right now, it is totally cool by the way, I have a lot of bad beliefs in my past as well. Get rid of it, okay.

Re-analyze that belief. Figure out why you have that belief and then say, okay. I have zero dollars, what can I do to be successful and that is when your brain starts coming up solutions. You have to give your brain a problem solve then it is going to come up solutions, okay.

So you know, I know I kind of went on a (inaudible 23:06.4) a little bit today. I know sometimes I do that, this definitely is not the most polished podcast in the entire world. I think you guys like that because I get comments on that all the time of how it is like you know, I have never come to this with a script. Usually, I do not even have any kind of outline. I kind of just have the you know, the idea and I just start talking about it. That is exactly what I did today.

But anyway, so I hope you are enjoying the podcast guys. You know, like always, the numbers are continuing to grow. You guys are awesome. I am getting emails all the time just you guys saying how much you enjoy the podcast. That really does mean a lot to me by the way. Just reaching out and saying, hey, just wanting to let you know I loved your latest episode on you know whatever, here is how it helped me. That really like -- I actually love getting those emails. They go to my support. So it is support at jeremyreeves.com, but they forward me every single one of those and even if I do not reply, I promise you, I am looking at it every single one of them.

And I really like -- I love to help people you know, if you guys have you know, known me for a long time, you know that I get such tremendous satisfaction just from helping people you know what I mean. It makes me feel just awesome, just to know that I am helping someone you know what I mean.

So if this is helping you, you know, make sure that you are sharing it with people. Help us continue to you know, to grow this.

I have a whole bunch of interviews coming up. We just launched -- we are doing video podcasting now, we are actually, I just did my an interview yesterday were actually, I think that interview is going to go live next week or the week after, I forget. We are adding questions in there so like you know, kind of like lightning questions to get to know the you know, the guest a little bit better.

I am looking and reaching out for bigger and bigger and bigger guest you know. I have done a lot of kind of underground guest and I am going to start mixing that up with some bigger name guest you know, that you guys I think will enjoy.

So yeah, there is a lot of cool stuff coming up with the podcast. It is only going to get better as you help continue to grow because the more the podcast grows, the more time I can allocate to it, right. It really just as simple as that. It is just simple business decision.

So you guys are the guys and girls by the way that help this grow. So make sure that you are telling people about it. Make sure that you are you know, you leave a review and remember, when you leave a review, we are giving you free stuff you know, we are giving you my 101 Conversion Tips you know, PDF.

So make sure you are doing that because you know, reviews help us grow so much, so they are so important.

So if you like this, that would be the single biggest thing that you can do to help us out is to leave a review and just tell people about it you know.

If it comes up in conversations or you know, put it on your blog or whatever you know, tell your mom about it, I do not know. Anybody who is a business owner.

So anyway, that is it for the day. As always, you know, share this you know, tell people about it. Give us a review on iTunes and then also, if you are interested in working with us, then reach out to support@jeremyreeves.com and let me know a little bit about you, about your business and I will let you know if I can help you know. If you have ever talk to me you know that I am very, very candid. If I cannot help you or if I do not think I am the best person to help you, I would just flat out tell you that, right, and I get a lot of people that you know, I tell that to them. I probably tell more people that I cannot help them than I can -- than I tell that I can help them, if that make sense you know, and it is because I only want, when I take on a new client, I want to know with 100% you know, certainty that I am going to be able to help them you know what I mean.

So anyway, that is it. I will stop my ramble here and I look forward to seeing you next time.

Aug 24 2016

27mins

Play

Rank #17: Ep 30 - Case Study On Finding Untapped Goldmines Hidden Within Your Business

Podcast cover
Read more

In this episode I take you through a case study of how to find untapped goldmines hidden within your existing business. We also discuss why most people are building sales funnels in completely the wrong way and how, when you get your strategy right, you get everything right.

In this episode we'll discuss...

- Why simply putting together a series of pages and emails and calling it a "sales funnel" is going to leave you broke and frustrated...

- How I discovered 1 segment of his customers worth 33x his average customer...

- Why all customers are NOT even remotely equal and how to segment and leverage your hyper-responsive buyers in your marketing...

And so much more!

Transcript:

Hey, this is Jeremy Reeves and welcome back to another episode of the sales funnel mastery podcast.

Alright, so I’ve been going through a lot of changes in my business this year and one of those changes is actually, funny, believe it or not, getting out of sales funnels, okay.  Not that I'm not doing sales funnels anymore, but I'm thinking about them in a very, very, very different way.

Okay, so it's kind of, it really hit me this year that people just don’t think strategically anymore.  It's kind of like, “Oh, I need a sales funnel, let’s just throw together any old landing page” you know, kind of market to any customer, you know, put together some emails and they kind of just, you know, it goes after a broad range of people, and that does not work.

You might get to, I don’t know, you might build a 6-figure business something like that doing it like that, but if you're really looking to grow or if you're really looking to make as much or more money than you are right now by working, you know a quarter or half of the time, you can't think like that, okay.

So one of the things -- one of the bigger realizations that I have had lately is that I'm actually -- since I don’t really care, I kind of had another breakthrough recently that information products really don’t do anything for me, okay.

I have never once in my entire life out of all the thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars had a breakthrough from an information product, and that’s actually why -- I'm actually considering taking all of my information products completely out and just being you know being who I am, giving my best absolute -- you know just zero secrets information and just moving to just 100% service business.  Because, it's just, you don’t get breakthroughs from information products.  All the breakthroughs I’ve ever had in my life came from me, giving somebody else a lot of money.

I spend you know, roughly $25,000 to $30,000 a year on coaching and those where I always have my biggest breakthroughs okay. 

So, just for one example, I was just talking to someone on the phone, and this is you know, kind of the reason that I'm making this podcast, I know they have been scarce lately, hopefully, I can start doing them more.  I know everybody wants to, you know everybody wants to smack me in the head, you know, for being so slack on these.

I just got off the phone with somebody and in my business, one of things that I'm doing is switching from a model of building sales funnels and saying, “Okay, I'm going to do ABC for you, you're going to give me X dollars” and I'm switching to a model of just saying, “Hey, listen, you're already doing well, I have found several untapped opportunities in your marketplace, and I'm just going to fill those for you and you just pay me on the results.”

You know, so instead of like having people money and they don’t know if they're going to get results, they all worry, it's like, you know it's big drama thing.  I'm kind of just, you know, taking it up 321 and saying listen, “I only get paid when you get results and you're going to get more than me, you're going to get the lime share of the profits.” 

So, that’s kind of where I'm starting to head, take my business.  Only in certain cases where I know that it's an easy win. 

So I'm talking to one guy, just got off the phone with him, actually about 5 minutes ago and once I got off the phone I realized I had to do this, okay.

So, he runs the business and he tells me that his average customer, okay I'm going to give you some numbers, I want to see if you can figure this out while I'm talking about it, alright, and I'm going to try to teach you to think strategically and find the untapped opportunities that nobody else is seeing.  I have a feeling you know, hopefully you get it, but before I can explain it, okay.

So, I'm going to give you some numbers and you can write this down if you want to.  If you're sitting in your computer or something grab a piece of pen and a paper, okay.

So, his lifetime customer value is $1200, okay.  You write that down.  Lifetime customer value is $1200.  25% of people or actually 75% of people only use him one time, okay, and the average sale is $300, okay.  So, again, $1200 customer lifetime value that’s over all of his customers.  So if you get him a 100 customers, you know, he’s going to make $120,000 okay, total, with all those customers, okay.  75% of them are only going to use him one time and spend $300, okay, so write that down.

And then, so I want you to break that down, okay.  So, I broke it down for you. So, I have down here 100 customers, he’s going to make $120,000, 75% of them are going to spend -- so basically 75 of them are going to spend $300, that’s $22,500.  Now remember, out of 100 people, he’s making $120,000.  75 of those people, 75 out of 100 are giving him $22,500.  So, he has the other 25% of people that are multi-buyers that you know, spend -- they come back to more than once. They are giving him $97,500, okay.

Now, I'm kind of going slow here because I want you to figure out where the opportunity is here. 

What I realized is that, okay, and here -- a couple more numbers here.  What I realized is that, a one-time customer is worth $300 to him, but his average customer is worth $1200, okay.  And again, I'm pausing a lot here because I want to see if you can come with the solution here.  I want to get you thinking, right. Because I like to teach people, I don’t like to just get 619 things that you should do.  I want you to learn here.  I want you to, you know, rack your brains.  So, while I'm talking here, I want you to think about what you would do in this scenario, okay, and let’s see if you're right, okay.

So, again, people do come to him and they buy one time worth $300.  His average customer is worth $1200.  So, where is that opportunity?  The opportunity is in building campaigns to target his hyper-responsive buyers, okay.  Because, I figured it out, I want -- you do the math, but I figured it out that his one-time customers worth $300 and if they come back more than once, they worth $3900, 33 times the amount.  If they do business more than once.

So, obviously, and hopefully you got it by now, because I have given you pretty much everything I could possibly give you.  Obviously, the opportunity here is getting people to come back more than once.  It's not about building a new landing page, it's not about testing and tweaking to get more customers, it's about none of that stuff, okay.  

That’s what most people would do and say, “Oh, well you know, my average lifetime customer value is $1200, you know, so we are okay there and I just want more customers, let’s just get more customers, let’s add it in up sale, you know, blah.. blah.. and it's like no, no, no, no, stop.”

That’s not what you should be doing, yeah, sure that stuff might help a little bit, you might get incremental improvements, but think about if you got -- if you switch that and get 75% and I haven’t done the numbers here, so I don’t know what it would be, but say that 75% of people to come back to you and be worth that $3900 rather than the $300.  What do you think that would do for your business?

In fact, I'm actually going to do the numbers here.  So, we got, out of 100 people you have 75 times $3900 and that is $292,500 and then we have the other 25 people are spending $300, so that is $7500.  So that’s $300,000.

So, basically, if you could switch that equation, and if you could go from 75% only using it once to -- only 25% using you once which I know that’s a big job.  That might not be realistic, although, it could be.  I'm going to tell you how in a second.

That takes your profit from $120,000 to $300,000.  So, you’re almost tripling here, I don’t know whatever that is, 2.7 times or whatever it is, okay.

So, that’s where you need to focus your energy and that’s why -- that’s the kind of thing that I'm good at, is finding those you know, untapped opportunities and you know, fixing them.  Because in most cases, stuff like that is going to give you a bigger overall impact on your ROI than -- you know, you have to have a funnel.  I mean you have to have that, yes, but people think that you just get a funnel and that’s it like it's just some magic bullet and it's not, and listen, I'm the one that is sitting here selling, you know 934 for your sales funnels, okay.  

But they're not the magic bullet.  You need them? Yes, absolutely.  But you need to do them correctly and I have 944 on this so much, and it's ridiculous, it makes my throat hurt.  But, you know you can have a sales funnel, but if it's not done the right way, it's not going to do anything for you, okay. 

So that’s just one example.  Now, so let’s just say, you know, so you’ve come to a realization that, oh my God, you know we have to flip that equation.  So, how do you do that, okay. 

So, what I would do if this is for my business, I would look at number 1, what are we put in place, how do we create and make a habit out of these people, you know how do we get them to not only use us once, but use us multiple times, okay and by the way, just so you know, I don’t have any knowledge for this, I'm going completely off the top of my head right now.  So, I could probably come up with something better if I actually thought about it, but I didn’t think I was actually get this far on podcast.  So, I'm literally just coming up this thought off to my head.

So, one thing I would do is number 1, you make it a habit, okay.  Make it a habit for them to get a press release.  So, you try to educate them in why something like a press release once a month is going to grow their business and you give them relevant facts and details and case studies and things like that. 

Another thing is maybe you give them a little bit of a discount or you add in some type of a -- like a rewards program, you know, that kind of thing, and one little trick there if someone has to get attend you give them you know, two little punches in the beginning, you know, there is a whole psychological thing on that.  So, those are a couple of ideas. 

Another really, really big one that most people missed, because everybody when they're marketing, they're just going after anybody who buys for him and as you can see in this case, that is not a good thing to do.  That’s not a good strategy, okay.  Because he clearly is attracting 75% of the wrong type of person, okay.  25% of the people who are buying for him are worth $3900 and 75% are worth $300.  Again, that’s 33 times difference, okay, that’s what 3,300% difference.

So, what he has to do is do surveys, do research, call his customers, find out who those people are and find out why they are using him so often, and then what do you do? Then, you create a duplicate campaign, you create kind of like a doppelganger strategy, where you try to clone those customers and that’s who you target.  Even if you have to spend 3 times as much, you know, in this case, you can afford to spend 33 times as much money to get it.  

So, if you know, if you're -- and obviously you're not going to do that because you need profit, but if you're to break even that’s what you can do.

So, even if you spend just a 5 times as much as people, they're worth 33 times more money.  So, if you know exactly what that little segment is, it's bringing you in all that extra profit that’s who you after and you just work your balls off and you -- you know, you go -- you know 1254 and completely just flood that market of that specific type of person.  You throw everything you have at them, because that’s where your money is coming from, okay. 

So, I hope this all make sense, it was probably a little bit deep.  So, you might want to listen to it a few times, but the big lesson here is that you have to look in your business and you have overall profit, you have overall customer lifetime value, but if you really dig down and you look at your numbers and you can strategize and think of this very clearly and articulately and strategically, that’s how you come through with these big breakthroughs like this, okay.

It's not about adding a new landing page.  It's not about adding a prospect sequence.  That stuff helps, but if you don’t have this strategy in place, for example, you know I could work with him and build a whole new funnel just to segment these types of people.  So, that’s where the sales funnel should be, okay.  It shouldn’t be just targeting anybody, it should be targeting these specific group of people, okay.

So, that’s my little spiel for today, actually, I have a meeting in a couple of minutes here, so I got to stop it here, but I got very inspired after that and I thought it would help you.

So, you know, again, the big takeaway here is, look at your customers, your clients, whoever you're serving, and find out what segments of them are making you most of your money.  This follows the 80/20 role.  I don’t know if that’s, let’s see 97 -- this is actually a little bit more than 80/20, it's more like 85/15 I think.  So, he’s making 85% of his profits from about 15% of the market, okay, roughly.  I have to do the math on it whatever $97,500 is into 120.

The big lesson here is look for those segments, those little tiny, you know little hidden gems in your market where they're bringing you in the most money or if you have a continuity program, you know why do you have people that are staying a month versus people that are staying a year, you know, who are those people that are staying a year.  If you have clients, some of them give you 25 grand for projects, some of them give you 5.  Who are the -- you know, who is that, that little segment group that’s giving you 25.  I already know what that is in my business.

Figure that out for your business and it completely changes the entire dynamic of your business, completely changes the entire strategy and it completely changes if you’re looking to get a sales funnel done by me or by anybody else or whatever you're doing by yourself, you have to be building the right sales funnel, okay.  

That is absolutely key here, okay.  It doesn’t matter how you can spend you know, a $100,000 on a sales funnel, but if you don’t have the strategy behind it, like if you're just attracting any old prospect versus the people who are making you the most money, it doesn’t matter, you're going to get better results, but you're not going to get a giant phenomenal breakthrough and that’s what I'm all about here, is getting giant phenomenal breakthroughs, not little tiny, stupid little increases.

So, that’s my 1600 for the day.  If you're interested in talking, getting in touch, about getting the sales funnel done and having this kind of you know, strategic thinking done on your business, or even if you know, you want to do some time at coaching or something like that, just shoot me an email, I'm not going to have a giant pitch for it, just shoot me an email and my email is Jeremy@jeremyreeves.com.  Tell me what's going on in your business and we will see if we can figure something out.

Alright, so again, this is Jeremy Reeves from www.jeremyreeves.com and I will talk to you soon.

Aug 13 2015

16mins

Play

Rank #18: SFM Ep 32: Multiplying Your Revenue With Strategic Alliances

Podcast cover
Read more

In episode #32 we'll discuss the power of strategic alliances. This is a hugely underestimated strategy that has made me A LOT of money over the past few years. However most people are going about them completely wrong, which is why they don't get good results.

In this episode we'll discuss...

  • Why you're doing a disservice to your audience if you aren't doing strategic alliances...
  • How to write an effective pitch for finding strategic alliance partners...
  • How to do a strategic alliance with ME (or get me to create a strategic alliances sales funnel for you)

And SO much more!

Transcript:

Hey everybody, this is Jeremy Reeves here again for another episode of the sales funnel mastery podcast and today, we are going to talk about strategic alliances and joint ventures partnering with people who can send clients or customers to you and it is how to basically create kind of win, win, win for the person sending it to you or win for you and also a big, big win for the people that you are helping, right?

A lot of people talk about affiliate relationships and doing affiliate programs, you know, a lot of people that have information products.  Having in affiliate program is the one of the things that you do because it is kind of an easy way to increase your revenue and that kind of things.  So, that is we’re kind of all people do but that concept kind of gets lost with people in the service industry or basically outside the information marketing industry.  A lot of times, well, specifically, it gets lost when you are talking about online.  People who primarily have never own a brick-and-mortar type of business.  

They primarily own a service that is online based and that kind of thing and it is funny because if you work offline and one of the things that I am particularly good at is taking concepts from other industries and bringing in them to new industries.

So, one of the things that I am really been looking at over the past, I don't know, a year or so is basically taking that principle a lot of people do strategic alliances offline but not many people do it online and also the same thing looking at that affiliate marketing and doing the same thing but with services, right.  

That is what we are going to talk about today and what are the big mistakes is that people think that if they tell somebody else about another service, that it is kind of come across, kind of like pushy and you are just doing it to get a commission and that kind of thing and you know, it is a legitimate concern but it’s only the way that you right a copy.  It's only the way that you position the reason why you are getting in touch with that person.

So, let me give an example.  Some people, well pretty much everybody, say you watch a movie or you go to a new restaurant or you buy a new car or you try really any kind of service.  Now, think about this, again it is coming back to offline brick-and-mortar kind of businesses, you know, movies, cars, restaurants, that kind of thing.  Even somebody like an electrician or mechanic, if somebody does a good job that makes you happy, you tell people about it, you know free.  

Like you just say, "Hey, you know I just saw this movie and it is awesome.  You should go and see it." "Hey, I just tried this new mechanic" or somebody says "Hey, do you know a mechanic?" and then you say, "Oh yeah, you know you should try Tom.  He is really honest and he does a good work and he gets the car back fast."  Blah, blah, blah.  So, you sell that person.  So, it helps in that particular case.  I want you think of this as a triple win.

In that case, let's just say the mechanic for example.  The mechanic wins because you are potentially sending them a new client.  You win, as the person telling your friend about the mechanic, because you know that your friend is now going to go to a place.  It is kind of like the satisfaction of helping them.  We all like to help people, 3:51 at least.  So, you get the satisfaction of telling them about that really cool other place, the new service that is going to help them and the customer, the person that you are telling, also wins because now they have someone that they can go to and they are reliable and trustworthy and that kind of thing.

So, that is when you are doing strategic alliances that is how you want to look at it. You want to look at it like how do I articulate this, how do I position it and frame it as a win, win, win for everybody.  So, for example, a lady came to me recently and she sells rugs, okay? So, she came to me and she wants a funnel set up right for basically going out to interior designers because that is basically someone who is in -- well the interior designers are also serving the people that this client of mine or future client of mine serves, right? So, she is going and when you are looking it and she want to think who else is serving the people that I serve or who else benefits if I get a new client or my customers.  What other problems that they have that other people are solving? So, then you just make a list of people like that.

So, for example, for me, my list is website designers, people who are doing things like ontraport setup like you know the implementation of emails and things like that setting out all the rules; infusionsoft set up; HubSpots set up; and that kind of thing; people doing paid traffic, google adWords, facebook, SEO people, people doing search engine optimization; that kind of things. So, there is a lot of different things that my clients also need.  They are buying traffic, they are getting SEO, they are getting press releases, they get their books written, and all these different things.

So, I go out and I reach out to these people and basically, what I am doing is saying, "Hey, you know, if you already have an audience of the same people that I am trying to reach but for a different service, okay, why don't we do a little strategic alliance and you win because I will give you a commission for anybody that you send to me, okay?"  The client wins because they are getting a service from somebody that they, let's just say, I partner with Tom, right.  Tom is referring, let's just say, Jane, okay?  So, Tom refers Jane.  Tom wins because he gets a commission from me.  Jane wins because she gets a funnel done from someone who is trusted and can actually do good work and I win because I have a new client, okay?

So, it is such a win, win, win.  It is basically a no brainier to do situation like that. What you have to figure out is what kind of commission you can afford to give away and that kind of thing.  So, the concept is basically that.  You go out and you find people that are also serving your clients but in a noncompeting way and you can also do this with like for example, I have services for people who cannot afford me, I have other copywriters that I refer them to who are less expensive than me. They are not as experienced, they do not have the results, you know that kind of thing.  

So, they are charging less because of that but there is a market for everybody because some people, a lot of people that are coming to me, I quote them or whatever or I talked to them before I even have to quote them and we figured out that we just are not going to be a good fit because they are a little bit earlier in the game.  They do not have the cash flow, they do not have the revenue to really justify spending the money on my fees.  Okay?  So, I refer them to other copywriters.

So, that is actually a direct competitor and it just adds a nice little revenue stream to my business and again, it is a win, win, win because I could not help that person, okay, so I find them someone who does and I get a small credit for that essentially and that person is happy because they came to me and I cannot help them, so that kind of sucks but I still can help them by referring them to someone else and then the other copywriter wins because they are getting a new client. They get a little bit more experience, that kind of thing.

So, that is how you want to frame these.  So step 1 is basically and this is mostly for service business but it is also for information products in the way that you express the idea to the potential affiliate partners, okay.  So, that is what we are looking at here.

Step 1 - Basically, writing down a list of people that also serve the people you serve, but they do so in a noncompeting way, alright?

What you do is you reach out to them and basically pitch them on the idea,  "Hey, you know, I just want to let you know that I love what you are doing" and obviously, only do this, by the way, with high quality people so you do not want to be partnering around with like, kind of people who are doing like kind of shoddy projects.  These should be someone that the higher up people in your industry. Basically, they should match whatever level you are on.  So, if you are really a high performer, if you are kind of in the higher end range of your market place.  

You want to match up to people who are on the higher end marketing range.

So, for me for example, I am kind of in the higher end, I do not want to match up with designers that are targeting the lower end.  Number 1, because I do not really want to associate with that type of person.  Again, everybody has their place.  So, that is fine.  It is nothing about the quality of the work or anything like that.  It is just we are catering to different people with different budgets and different purposes for getting their funnels done and all that kind of stuff.

So, step 1, find the people.

Step 2 - Pitch them on the idea and basically what you want to say, you want just explain the win, win, win situation.  You want to say, "Hey, I love what you are doing.  You know, I want to talk to you about something.  I have this thing that I do with people like yourself who, you know, we serve the same people but, you know, in a noncompeting way and basically we just team up and we, you know, refer people to each other and give each other a commission.  You know, do you want to try to thought about it?"

When you find these people, you send them a message, you wait for them to write back.  Then, now what you do, for example for me, I actually just got done that is why I am procuring this podcast, I actually just got done writing emails for my joint ventures partners.  So like what I have for example and I am actually might kind of productize this service and do it for other people because it is extremely, extremely effective.  If you are in a service based industry or if you provide a service, get in touch, and we can talk about prices to do this for you.  I write all the copy, all the different things.

For example, you need a script to going out to potential joint venture partners; you also need some type of document that outlines what you do, who you are, who you help, results you got and that kind of thing.  So, it is kind of puts all your whole, like essentially a sales letter selling you -- and that is for your joint venture partners to give potential clients.  Then you also want to do an email, one warm email and one cold email.  So, the cold email is for your joint venture partners because you want to make this super, super easy for them.  One email that is cold and it is basically for their lists.  Let's just say that I came across a really awesome web designer, okay.  He would give me an email that talks about why people need really good web design and then like what makes them different.  

So, it is kind of like I am not going to do the whole email 11:47 of my head.  It is kind of something like,  "Hey, I just want to let you know that I found this really awesome web designer and he guarantees to increase your conversions by 20% through better web design because it allows your visitors to read it, increases its readability and we do split testing and blah, blah, blah.

So again, you just kind of telling your audience that you found this really cool person, you trust them with your life or with your marketing, at least and to get in touch with them.  You also want to do a warm email and that is the people who you are going out to individually.  So let's just say that I have a client who is getting a sales funnel and they say,  "How about web design, can you help with that?" and for me, specifically, I have my own designer that I do for client so I do not have to refer out but if I did, then I would just say, "Oh yeah, I know this really good web designer and you know, I recommend that you use him" and just get a small commission for the referral.

It is nothing, some people kind of think, “You know you are only doing it because you get a referral” and no, you are referring people anyway.  So, there is no reason in not getting paid for that.  There is no reason for it.  It adds a nice little revenue stream and it is just a nice little addition to whatever that you already doing.  It just adds a new income stream, maybe it is 500 bucks a month or maybe 1000 bucks a month, whatever it is.  It is extra spending money.  The worst case, use that money and just buy yourself something nice every time you get a commission.  I literally this morning just sent out an $1800 referral payment to somebody who referred me to a new client and that was one of 4 that he is getting.  He is getting a total of $7200, I think that comes out today.

For referral that is basically was just an email, that he sent out and I wrote the email for him.  So, it is really for him but it helps me too because I got a really, really good client and then it also helps that client because they were hooked up with somebody that they didn’t know before.  They didn’t know of me before that and this guy referred them to me and now we are doing a big project together and I just handed in a piece of the copy and they actually loved it and that kind of thing.  So, it helps everybody and it is just a fantastic addition that you can do to your marketing.

So, that is pretty much it.  There is a little bit more than that but that is pretty much like the basic principle on everything.  So, if you are a service provider or you provide any kind of service, I have 2 things for you.  Number 1, is do this. Okay? That is kind of the big thing.  Number 2, actually 3 things.  Number 1, just do this regardless.  Number 2 is if you want me to actually do this for you, and basically write everything for you, show you exactly how to find people, show you exactly how to express the idea to people because that is going to be the big thing here, you have to really basically have a good copywriting.  You have to show them why its in it for them.  So if you want to talk about me doing this for you, just shoot me an email at jeremyreeves.com.  The link would be in a shown offs, just go to jeremy@jeremyreeves.com and use the contact me button, whatever you are going to do.  That is one thing.  We can talk about pricing and all that.

The second thing is if you are servicing entrepreneurs like my clients are obviously entrepreneurs looking for sales funnels.  So if you are also serving sales funnels then also get in touch with me and we can actually talk about doing a strategic alliance together and setting up one of these for between us.  Depending on what you do because I already have some people that I referred to, so maybe it is just like I just talk to someone who sets up membership sites so I don't have anybody all ready that I am talking to who does that.  So anybody who needs a membership site, I will refer them to that person.  But other things, like I have a couple of traffic people and things like that but we can talk about that.

Either it is one way or reciprocal or whatever it is but either way, it is an extra revenue stream.  It helps you, it helps me, and it helps the client and that is what I am all about as you probably know is win, win for everybody.  I do not think anything should ever redone where only 1 people or 1 person wins.  It should always be a situation where I win, you win, and the customer wins and I would never ever, ever, ever, ever in my life do anything that kind of hurts the trio if you will.

So that's it.  If you would like for me to do this for you, to actually create everything for you and show you my exact process for doing this, I would love to do that and we can talk about it.  Just shoot me an email, jeremy@jeremyreeves.com.  Also, if you serve entrepreneurs or you have some type of access to them, then I would also like to talk to you about it and we can talk about doing a joint venture together, we actually do this for each other, okay? So, that's it for today.  I hope you enjoyed it and I will talk to you soon.

Sep 01 2015

17mins

Play

Rank #19: Eric Siu On Growth Hacking Secrets

Podcast cover
Read more

In this episode, we chat with Eric Siu about growth hacking!. Eric is a badass when it comes to growth hacking and how to implement little-known strategies and tactics into your business to spur new growth. We discuss everything from CRO, to ninja paid traffic secrets, and everything in between!

  Resources Mentioned

conversionrateexpert

conversionxl.com

growtheverywhere.com

growtheverywhere.com/marketingschool

Transcript

Jeremy Reeves: Hey what is going on guys. Jeremy Reeves here with another episode of The Sales Funnel Mastery.

And today, we have on the line, Eric Siu.

Eric is the CEO of digital marketing agency Single Grain which has worked for Fortune 500 companies. It is a pretty big one such as Sales Force, Yahoo, and Intuit.

And what they do is they help to scale the revenues using a combination of SEO and advertising strategies which we are going to talk about that today.

He also owns Growth Everywhere which is a marketing podcast where he dissects growth levers that help business to scale. He has had guest from -- on the podcast from Echo Sign founder, Jason Lemkin; Eloqua co-founder, Mark Organ, Andy Johns, (inaudible 1:01.4), Facebook, Quora, and Twitter and a whole bunch more.

He also contributes to Entrepreneur Magazine, Business Insider, Forbes, Fast Company, Time Magazine, and more.

By the way, if you guys are not listening, he also does a podcast with Neil Patel, it called Marketing School and I listen to it every morning. I also highly recommend that you guys listen to that as well.

So Eric, how are you?

Eric Siu: I am good man. Thanks for having me.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. It was a pleasure getting you on here. I think we can have a pretty fun conversation.

What we are going to talk about for everybody listening is basically what is working now because Eric is kind of like me you know, we do a lot of similar things and he is -- he is kind of dabbles in a lot of different areas, so he knows what is working in a lot of different industries and a lot of different parts of the sales funnel everywhere from getting the traffic to actually making the traffic convert to making -- helping people become repeat buyers and you know, and raving fans that kind of a thing.

So we are going to kind of walk through that process, but before we do why don’t you dive a little bit more into your story and tell people a little bit more about you.

Eric Siu: Yeah, absolutely. So like you mentioned you know, I have an agency called a Single Grain and yeah, I mean you know, we mostly help technology companies, a couple in Fortune 500 in there and yeah, you know, we talked about growth everywhere that is why we really interview a lot of different people. We just talk about marketing and you know, talk about business and personal growth stuff and then the new one you mentioned Marketing School, that is a daily marketing podcast where I just you know, Neil and myself nerding out on marketing every single day, but we do a lot of different things you know, in addition to helping clients grow.

We have our own projects too, so we kind of live and breathe marketing you know. Our ultimate goal is to really just accelerate the great ideas in the world and we just have fun while we are doing it.

Jeremy Reeves: That is awesome. Yeah, I like that quote, accelerate the great ideas in the world. That is awesome. I like that.

Yeah, so you are actually you know, a lot of people kind of just you know, they read things and then kind of just repeat that to their audience -- but you are actually in the trenches doing it you know what I mean which is kind of cool.

Unfortunately, a little bit unique -- you know, I wish it was not -- I wish that was not a unique thing, but it is you know.

So before we get into the you know, the content of this, all the you know, what is working basically. I like to do a couple really quick questions just so everybody can kind of get to know you a little bit more as a person right and there are 4 questions and the first one is.

What is the worst habit that you have ever had and how did you get rid of it?

Eric Siu: Worst habit that I have ever had well, I think it was probably -- I think I was just being kind of get everything at once. I think that is something that (inaudible 3:50.0) sometimes it will pop up every now and then but you know, trying to do too many things and not being able to prioritize that is something that you know, easy people struggling with quite a bit because there are so many opportunities coming to you and you just do not know what to do with them. So that is what it is.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, you know what, I struggle with that myself sometimes. I definitely feel you there.

Alright. Next one. If you could cross off one item on your bucket list like -- you probably have cross off a bunch of things. You probably have a whole bunch that you have not you know, done yet. If you could only cross off one more thing, what would -- which one would that be?

Eric Siu: Yeah. I think it would be to the ultimate one, is to give away $60 million to the charity.

Jeremy Reeves: Nice. I like that.

And if you could change one thing about your life instantly, just you know, flick off the rest, what would it be?

Eric Siu: You know what, I do not think I would change anything. I think you know, just you know a couple of years ago or a year or two ago, I started doing the 5-minute journal and that has really taught to be a lot more grateful (inaudible 4:44.8) as long as you are grateful, I think you just have to be happy with what you have, I think you are good to go.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. You know what, I have recently started doing a similar thing myself.

I write down every morning 3 things that I am grateful for and then -- I write it on a note card and then when I go up -- when my wife wakes up, I am up like quarter to 6 and she comes down around like 7, I do not know, 7:30 maybe. I do not know, something like that and when I go up for coffee I give it to her and she writes hers on the back you know and then -- the other night we actually asked both of our kids what their favorite part of the day was you know.

Yeah. You know, and we are teaching -- they are only 3 and 5 and they are learning that skill already you know. It is so, so important.

Eric Siu: It seems like really (inaudible 5:28.7) stuff like I used to be like you know, that stuff you know, I do not need that whatever, but it genuinely helps you know for the long term.

Jeremy Reeves: Yep, yep, absolutely.

And if you had to choose a spirit animal, what would it be?

Eric Siu: Well, my spiritual animal --

Jeremy Reeves: Just the top of your head.

Eric Siu: I think it would be the bull.

Jeremy Reeves: Okay.

Eric Siu: Because I used to like the Rock. I mean that brahma bull on his arm (inaudible 5:52.1) yeah it will be a bull.

Jeremy Reeves: Nice. Yeah, the Rock is awesome. Nice.

Okay. So with that said, now that we kind of get to know you a little bit better.

Let us start with you know, getting people to the website you know, because there is kind of like -- if you really break it down, there are really only 2 pieces you know, there are getting people to the website and then actually converting those people.

So I think we focus there you know, we can help a lot of people out. So you know, what are some of the things that you are finding that are working for the most amount of people in terms of getting people to the page whether that is -- and maybe you want to split it up (inaudible 6:27.6) like free stuff versus paid traffic.

Eric Siu: Yeah. So I am going to keep it simple. I mean, you know what something that works well right now that not a lot of people are doing is Gmail Advertising.

So that is literally you are advertising within a Gmail platform and you know, they are able to see an ad there and you click through it and (inaudible 6:46.8) to your website and the clicks are you know, really not that bad right now and the good thing about it is that you are able to target people that are opening emails.

For example, if you are Coca-Cola you want to target people that are opening emails from Pepsi or you want to target people that are opening emails from Red Bull, right.

And you are able to do that with a Gmail and bring them back and then drive a good you know, conversion rate and you know for 1 client that we had you know, they target cost per acquisition number was $150 that is for lead and we are getting that (inaudible 7:14.9) $7. So that is definitely worth trying.

Jeremy Reeves: That is crazy -- I am actually -- I have heard about that, but I never actually done it. Is that through Adwords?

Eric Siu: Yes.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. Okay, I thought so.

I am going to have look into that more. You got my curiosity peak on that one.

And how about, anything with Facebook?

Eric Siu: Yeah. I mean Facebook (inaudible 7:36.0) a lot of people pushing people to you know content or to webinar (inaudible 7:39.9) whatever it is. I think Facebook is you got to be doing Facebook nowadays. I mean, it is -- even it is retargeting people or getting people you know on your email list. That is kind of the bare minimum.

So definitely, you know, target cold people to your content perhaps or you can warm traffic you know, these are people that know your brand. Target them to content and then you know, try to drive them down to funnel you know, even deeper.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah. You know what, you know, you are talking about content and there is kind of 2 schools of thought you know. One is hey, just you know, take it right from Facebook to your landing page whether it is a webinar or but you know, whatever it is, to your opt-in page and then the other one is you know, know (inaudible 8:15.9) content first, get super cheap clicks and then retarget them back to your opt-in pages.

Is there any -- have you done any you know, because -- like a lot of people are doing really well, doing both of those, you know what I mean.

Have you ever done any like straight test where you literally took the same audience, same offer, everything and tried both?

Eric Siu: Yeah. I think we have and I think it really does -- (inaudible 8:39.1) it depends on the offer. It depends on what you were selling exactly. If it is something that is free you know, you might just (inaudible 8:43.8) directly to it or you know if it is a higher ticket like $1,000 or $2,000 course and they do not know who you are. You probably going to have to build that relationship and try to get into the webinar.

So obviously, the less steps you have, the better because you know, my argument with (inaudible 8:57.1) what their content in the beginning was like, you know, why you want to add that step in the beginning but you know, it does in fact work because you are building a relationship you know, (inaudible 9:05.5) a piece of content and you are able to retarget that later.

Really depends. You have to you know, work out the numbers on your end and then -- I think at the end of the day, if you were able to just make 1 tweak, sometimes all it takes is just 1 tweak for a campaign to sky rocket.

So definitely test you know all the different ways, try to direct or (inaudible 9:23.1) piece of content and see how that does for you.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely. And you know, when it comes to you know, when it comes to -- because a lot of people really they do not focus enough.

And I am actually building -- I am in the middle of building a course on doing webinars and one of the things that I am talking about is pre-selling people, you know what I mean, because so many people it is like you are taking them from you know, wherever it is, Facebook or Adwords or whatever it is and they have never heard about you and it is just like plop you know, right into the ad and I have seen a lot of people try where the ad itself had.

It was more of curiosity thing you know and then when they get to landing page, they have like -- there is no context. There is no pre-sell whatsoever and they are getting a lot of clicks, but they are not getting a lot of conversions and you know, kind of the theory behind that is because they are not pre-sold you know.

What are your thoughts on pre-selling people like do you try to really -- well I guess without giving it away you know, when you are writing ads for let us just say Facebook just for example. Do you try to you know, do you try to write the ads in a way that it kind of you know, targets a specific audience or do you do it more you know, maybe you are having a success with doing it more curiosity based you know, what are your thoughts on the actual ad itself?

Eric Siu: Yeah. So, when I target people I mean you know, obviously you wanted to go to the you know, the message to whoever your target instead of just writing a general one. I mean -- I think you know, in general, the logic is you know, obviously (inaudible 10:55.6) target, it is going to resonate, it is going to get better, click to rates, better engagement in overall it is just better you know, better (inaudible 11:01.2). So yeah, that is generally what we do on that front.

Jeremy Reeves: Okay, sounds good.

You know -- and actually you know, while I am here, have you found anything that is working best for different price points you know. You know usually I find it usually like higher price points are webinars, have you found anything else -- I guess more in getting people kind of into the you know, the lower end product like for example.

I have a client right now and they are selling a product for $250 right. It is a physical product, it is this mask that you put on your face. It is for like, you go out in the sun and it rejuvenates your face that kind of thing, right. So it is a beauty product.

So we are not really going to do a webinar on that, probably a video at some point, but you know, it does not really fit into like a webinar category, but it is also not a just like, hey you know, here is this thing go buy it type of deal. Now we are going to try Amazon ads, but you know, besides Amazon because there are already buyers so they buy a little easier.

Have you found anything that works best for you know, something like that where they are not high enough to really get them on a webinar, but it is not really low enough or it is an impulse buy you know, have you found anything that works in that like kind of a middle range?

Eric Siu: Oh yeah. I will give you a couple of examples here. These are little more low tier but you know -- I have a friend at (inaudible 12:24.8) E-commerce company and they sell leather cases right, mobile phone cases and you know, it is like you know, they were $7 to $15 product and they are literally just tried the Facebook traffic to the product page and it is actually working for them believe it or not.

And so that works and then you know, also we have a client that -- they have, they sell these brushes, really nice brushes, it is a subscription service. I believe it is about $20 a month and literally yeah, Facebook traffic is going straight to the product page and that is working out.

So yeah, you know, the easy stuff people say you cannot really use Facebook to drive people directly to a product page. It does in fact, work.

Jeremy Reeves: Nice, okay. I am going to have to -- because I have some clients that have lower end stuff and you know, a lot of what they are doing is like -- I am one -- especially when people are first starting like I always try to you know get some wins first without going into paid traffic and then once the funnel is converting, then you pay traffic rather than kind of just jump to gone over right in just because I am little bit more risk-a verse that I think most people are.

So I like to do things like you know, for example, that client that I was just talking about one of the things that we are going to do is reach out the bloggers, have them review it that kind of thing you know, do like paid sponsorship type of situations that kind of thing. Just to kind of like get some feedback first you know, because it is one of those products that we have to be kind of sensitive with the objections and the way that we handle certain things. It would kind of take too long to explain it, but --

You know, brings me kind of my next one is, what are some things that you know, so you said the Gmail advertising right. So I think everybody you know, most people listening to this, they know about the like the big things you know, Facebook and Adwords and SEO and that kind of thing.

What are some -- do you have any other kind of unique traffic sources that most people are not doing that they typically it makes a little bit easier to make something work you know, it kind of like the Gmail Advertising?

Eric Siu: Yeah. I mean, the Gmail Advertising has followed the (inaudible 14:26.6), but I think at Youtube you know, Youtube has been something that has been you know, it is the number 2 search engine in the world and still not a lot of people are giving it even though it has continued to get bigger and bigger. I mean you look at your Facebook you will see everything single day you are seeing more and more videos.

Facebook video has done well, but you know, people continue to neglect the power of Youtube advertising, but you have to think you know, you are able to retarget people. You are able to you know, to retarget or target certain channels, target certain keywords it is pretty powerful, still do not neglect Youtube advertising.

Jeremy Reeves: Okay, that is a good one. And are you doing -- that is one actually that I am going to be starting to do actually with this webinar course. That is one of the things I am going to test out and also for client that I am working with now. It is also -- we are kind of (inaudible 15:12.2) you know.

When you are doing Youtube, is it -- I am trying to think of the way to say this. When they are looking at the ads, is it -- do they only pay for it if they actually watch the whole -- I think there is a certain amount, they have to watch a certain number of seconds or certain percentage of the video or something like this and how that it works?

Eric Siu: Yes, so the way it works is if they click on the ad you get charge for it or it is either you have to watch 30 seconds or you finish the video, which you know, whichever one comes first. That is how it works.

Jeremy Reeves: Okay, nice, okay. You know I guess kind of a similar question is. Are you sending people, is it like or I guess maybe kind of depends probably. Are you using that more like an opt-in kind of strategy or you are selling it right from the ad?

Eric Siu: (inaudible 15:57.2) I mean some people do opt-ins and they are getting you know, CPAs for as low as $1 to $2 or you can drive them directly to a page to sign up so either way, you know you just test it up probably (inaudible 16:08.5) and make it work.

Jeremy Reeves: Okay, yeah. I guess you know, the easy way to -- I am huge you know, kind of a just hey you know, test a couple of things and see which one you know works the best and then put all of your effort into that as well and it sounds like you are kind of the same way.

You know, I think an easy way to kind of figure out where to start like what strategy to start with you know, in terms of like opt-in or just a straight sale. It is probably the price point mixed with the complexity you know like the market sophistication of whatever you are selling you know what I mean. Would you agree with that?

Eric Siu: Totally agree.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, okay. I think that -- for anybody listening you know, if you want to try that out or even Gmail or whatever you know, I think it is like, if it is an easy buy you know, if it is just like hey, here is what it is, here is what it does, buy it now. Those typically tend to sell pretty well just straight from the ad versus like if you have to explain it. If the market does not really know what it is and you have to explain what it is or how it works that kind of thing, typically it is a little bit harder I think to you know, to make it work right off the bat, right.

Okay, so that is -- I think that is, you know, pretty good amount of you know different traffic tips for people rather than the typical stuff do they hear or do Facebook advertising. That is like kind of it you know what I mean.

I think 9 out of 10 times it is just oh do Facebook ads you know, but yeah, I mean there are a lot of other -- I am actually working with client right now who is doing a CPA offer you know, for a supplement you know, and it is like, a lot of people do not do that type of stuff you know what I mean.

There are big opportunities because everybody is doing Facebook and everybody is doing Adwords so if you find things that people are not doing there is less demand there and the clicks are less and you know, and you get CPAs that are less which is you know, which is awesome.

I think it is important to try some of this you know, some of these alternative strategies.

So with that right, so we have the traffic now we covered that. How about some you know, conversion you know, once they -- so we are getting them to the page you know, how do we sell them once they are actually on the page you know, do you have any kind of you know, ninja tricks for you know, for doing that?

Eric Siu: Yeah. I do not think there is really any ninja tricks nowadays when it comes to conversion. Nothing that comes into my -- I mean you can look at the digital marketer stuff, what they do when it comes to -- oh dragging people to a low dollar offer like a $7 offer and then doing some upsells right after you know, some one time offer you know, you up $7 and you upsell them to you know $200 product and you can upsell like another round.

So you can use a tool (inaudible 18:48.4) to help you you know, set that whole thing up, but I mean in general, if we are going to talk about new conversion stuff that showing up. Generally, I just like to look at conversionxl.com or conversionrateexpert just to see what they are talking about, but I have not seen anything groundbreaking in the last couple of years.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, you know what, and honestly I think that is a good thing because I think that -- I used to be really, really heavy into the CRO world. I actually -- conversionrateexpert actually reached out. This was a couple of years ago and they wanted me to work for them, but I am just not really an employee kind of a guy, so I said no.

I actually worked with Peep too from conversionxl.com. He is super, super smart dude.

And you know, I think when I am talking about conversions with people, I think a lot of people miss the basics you know. They want to focus, it is like, oh, what button color is or what color background or you know, what about you know, flashing arrows and then they are focusing on that stuff, but they have not really nailed down the core message right. They have not nailed down the objections. They have not nailed down the emotions of the market’s feeling or why their product is unique and like all the big thing is really you know, drive like 99% of the conversion you know what I mean, is that something you found as well?

Eric Siu: Yeah, I mean, you know, generally people will talk about the colors and things like that just because you know, they read an article but really it is about more than that. You have to look at the data. You have to survey the audience and you have to you know, come up with the hypothesis before you start doing all this run and test and I think you know, growth hackers they just launched a tool called Growth Hackers Projects where it allows you to organize all of your tests get everyone on the same page. I think that is a great tool for you know, team to start using.

Jeremy Reeves: Nice, nice. I like that. I am going to have to look that up. Because we are doing a lot too and it is like -- it is sometimes it is hard to you know, organize various tests because you have a whole bunch of them going at the same time and you forget you know what is even happening with them. I am going to have to look into that. I am going to write that down.

How about you know, have you ever tested things like you know price points. I know digital marketer, (inaudible 20:55.4). He did a thing a while ago about you know, about pricing you know and I have kind of seeing the same thing. I think there is a lot of price elasticity when it comes to you know, when it comes to selling things and I have actually had a lot of different cases where a client came to me and they were selling something for whatever just say, it is $47 and we rewrote the copy and increased the price and kept the exact same conversions, but the price was you know, 50% higher.

And I think that comes down to just good copy you know what I mean. Just explain (inaudible 21:30.1) the value more you know, building up the value more and reducing the risk you know more.

So I guess you know, have you ever tested any types of pricing strategies that you have worked like that, like you know, you had one thing like I know with Ryan is one of the big things. He did was -- he had a $97 and he did 2 payments in 97 and it was like the same conversions with double the price that kind of thing.

Have you ever done any test with that or any like kind of cool pricing strategies that works?

Eric Siu: Yeah. I mean most of the time, I think people are just you know, afraid to increase their price. I mean that is the easiest way to kind of just start to scale your business and I think you know, I have certainly you know, victim to that you know, still sometimes I will be as well, but just to give you an example you know, for some clients come to us for a marketing strategy you know, (inaudible 22:16.6) marketing strategy as you know, $1,500 offer well you know, recently we started increasing into $5,000 (inaudible 22:22.9) it is literally the same thing. We just increased the price.

So I think it is a matter of just saying, okay, well you know, I am just going to increase it you know, screw it. I am going to see how it works out and you know, we never got any complaints.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah and you know what, how is your -- how was the quality of your client has been, since you did that?

Eric Siu: You know, it is even better. I mean you know, when you increase your price, you get different types of -- you get different kinds of people you know, if they are willing to pay that price, great right and they are not complaining you know, it is a different type of client versus the ones that are trying to you know, trying to negotiate that price down to you know, a $1,000 to $500 or something like that you know, it sets a different type of expectation I think.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah you know, I was thinking the other day about like micro continuity sites where it is like $7 a month or $10 a month versus just you know, versus just like alright say you have you know, like which is easier if you had $10 a month and you have to get whatever a thousand people to make $10,000 a month or you can charge a $1,000 a month for some kind of like you know, lower end service and have 10 clients you know, which one is easier to service or you know, $10,000 a month and have 1 client you know what I mean.

And I think that is something that a lot of people you know, a lot of people missed you know.

When you work with people, do you look at things like that like if they have low end and you think the price can be higher or you know like when you are working with clients -- I guess the question is rather than just like do you look at it more holistically versus more transaction I guess you know, things like that you know, pricing and the strategy behind it, the positioning rather than just like okay, lets us you know, do this traffic source and do this copy or whatever.

How do you work with clients when you are -- you know, when they come to you and they have a problem that you are trying to solve?

Eric Siu: I mean we would not get feedback. I mean, we have you know -- 1 client they have a type of service that is based off on subscriptions and we came to them saying, hey, you know, maybe your (inaudible 24:27.0) is a little too high, maybe you wanted you know, figure out, maybe making it just like a set price instead and try testing that out.

So the thing is you know, we will take a look and we will give our feedback (inaudible 24:36.9) price at first you know that is really reserved for you know, agencies out there like price intelligently that can really help nail things down and really have a more scientific process to it.

Jeremy Reeves: Okay, got you, got you.

And how about -- how does your testing process go?

So like you know, once you actually -- because this is, I know from an experience you know, this is an area that a lot of people get hung up on is they will put together a funnel, right, and they are all excited and then they run traffic to it and either it totally bombs right, and it is just like does absolutely nothing or it does a little bit, but it is not quite ROI positive right and then you know, of course and that is one we will focus on and then of course the other one is they launched and it does really well and you know and that is fine (inaudible 25:18.3).

What is your process for going and actually like you know, taking a funnel that is -- it is kind of showing some light you know, because some of them just do bad. The messaging is all off you know, it is just not a good product in the market but you know, I think most of them will show at least some legs you know what I mean. They show signs of life they just have to be optimized you know.

What is your process for actually going and optimizing funnels once they are actually launched?

Eric Siu: Yeah so for us I mean we do not specifically specialize in funnels, but (inaudible 25:51.5) mostly for our own stuff I mean, when it comes to testing especially with ads I mean usually what you see with people is that they will say, okay you know, we have this $5,000 budget you know, let us test like a $100 or $200 a day and let us spread it over you know a certain amount of time.

Our thing is we rather just put all that money up front and then collect all the data as quickly as we can. Get that data and then you know, try to (inaudible 26:13.3) shall we continue on with this? Are we seeing traffic with it? If we are seeing traffic let us continue and move on.

So we are looking for any signs of you know, growth and then you know that is how we kind of continue to innovate.

Jeremy Reeves: Okay, okay. Yeah, that makes sense.

I am on the same way you know, I rather just get it all out there because why wait 2 months when you can just get it in a week you know, and then you could spend the next 7 weeks tweaking it you know what I mean and seeing you know, seeing what is wrong in that kind of thing.

So when you are looking at results you know, are there any -- are there any certain KPIs that you, you know, that you typically look at --

For anybody who does not know the term, Key Performance Indicators. Any certain matrix that you look at as kind of like a benchmark?

Eric Siu: Yeah. I mean there is a lot (inaudible 26:57.3) I am sure you do that too, (inaudible 27:00.4) we are looking at cost per acquisition you know, we are looking at -- or cost per acquisition, cost per lead whatever you want to call it and then we are looking if that numbers increase and decrease in overtime and then we also wanted to look at you know, also how much volume we are driving and you know, you can look at other matrix such as you know, click the rate as well, conversion rates too. Those are kind of the you know, the matrix that we look at and also cost per click too.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah and there is also going to be -- I think that is a good summary of like the you know, the basic one. Then there is -- you know, for different industries there will be a couple other like you know, specific-like industries, specific lines.

Eric Siu: Yeah, the lifetime value things like that. It really depends and yeah.

Jeremy Reeves: Okay, sounds good.

Alright. Well, hey you know, I have a blast. I have learned a lot. I guess my last question is, is there any you know, is there a question that I have not asked or something that -- that you want the audience to know before you get off, that you would you know, you feel bad if you got off and they did not hear this one big tip.

Eric Siu: No. I think that’s about it you know, if you are into marketing just listen to marketing school every single day. Give us feedback and give us topic ideas because we are always aching for more.

Jeremy Reeves: Yeah, definitely.

And before you hop off. Let everybody know where you know, where they can find you.

Eric Siu: Yeah, absolutely. Just go to growtheverywhere.com and then you can find me on that podcast or you can go to growtheverywhere.com/marketingschool to listen to the podcast with myself and Neil.

Jeremy Reeves: Sounds good.

And for everyone listening, those will be in the show notes as usual and I also give my personal recommendation you know, for his podcast. They are topnotch you know, like I said, I listen to you know, to the one Neil Patel literally every morning which is cool while I am making my coffee and it is a good just kind of you know, quick insight you know, kind of just gives you new idea, nice little you know, spark I guess for the day and yeah, it is a good stuff.

It was great having you on. Thanks for coming on.

Eric Siu: Alright. Thanks for having me Jeremy.

Jeremy Reeves: Sure.

Oct 26 2016

29mins

Play

Rank #20: Why Webinars Are Badass (And Who Should Be Using Them)

Podcast cover
Read more

Today is day #1 of a week FILLED with talk about webinars! Today we talk about why webinars are so badass, who should be using them, and a few super ninja tricks you can use to get better results.

I also announce my brand-new training workshop, showing you how to use webinars to sell high ticket products/services. It's this Friday at 1 p.m. EST. The link to join is http://www.jeremyreeves.com/htff-webinar

Nov 14 2016

21mins

Play