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Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer

Updated 3 days ago

Rank #16 in Business News category

News
Business News
Politics
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Thinking Like A Lawyer is a podcast featuring Above the Law’s Elie Mystal and Joe Patrice. Each episode, the hosts will take a topic experienced and enjoyed by regular people, and shine it through the prism of a legal framework. This will either reveal an awesome rainbow of thought, or a disorienting kaleidoscope of issues. Either way, it should be fun.

Read more

Thinking Like A Lawyer is a podcast featuring Above the Law’s Elie Mystal and Joe Patrice. Each episode, the hosts will take a topic experienced and enjoyed by regular people, and shine it through the prism of a legal framework. This will either reveal an awesome rainbow of thought, or a disorienting kaleidoscope of issues. Either way, it should be fun.

iTunes Ratings

201 Ratings
Average Ratings
148
20
7
6
20

Best Legal Podcast

By Michael Sneeringer - Jan 15 2020
Read more
Each week I learn something new. I appreciate Joe Patrice’s humor.

Great pod

By camdggfhbdsh - Nov 24 2019
Read more
Love Elie and Joe. Great stuff.

iTunes Ratings

201 Ratings
Average Ratings
148
20
7
6
20

Best Legal Podcast

By Michael Sneeringer - Jan 15 2020
Read more
Each week I learn something new. I appreciate Joe Patrice’s humor.

Great pod

By camdggfhbdsh - Nov 24 2019
Read more
Love Elie and Joe. Great stuff.
Cover image of Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer

Latest release on Jan 21, 2020

Read more

Thinking Like A Lawyer is a podcast featuring Above the Law’s Elie Mystal and Joe Patrice. Each episode, the hosts will take a topic experienced and enjoyed by regular people, and shine it through the prism of a legal framework. This will either reveal an awesome rainbow of thought, or a disorienting kaleidoscope of issues. Either way, it should be fun.

Rank #1: Law School Decision 2019 (Part I)

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We finally set aside some time to discuss the questions we've received from prospective law students asking "where should I go to school?" Choosing between T14 heavies? We can handle that. Weighing different scholarship packages? We've got that too. Tune in and hear our advice on how to properly manage the law school adventure.

Special thanks to our sponsor, Smith.ai.

Apr 23 2019

37mins

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Rank #2: Where Should You Go To Law School?

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The latest in Thinking Like A Lawyer's ongoing -- if intermittent -- series asking prospective law students where they're thinking about going to law school and offering our advice. Offers from Penn and Berkeley? Elie and Joe got thoughts about it.

Apr 27 2018

28mins

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Rank #3: The Future Of The Law Firm

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Elie and Joe talk to Ralph Baxter, former head of Orrick and current board member of Intapp, about the future of the legal industry. Baxter has long been an evangelist for legal industry change, willing to rethink Biglaw's long-standing practices to deliver better and more cost-effective services to clients.

Special thanks to our sponsor, Smith.ai.

Dec 11 2018

30mins

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Rank #4: Law School Rankings Recap

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The US News and World Report law school rankings have been leaked, and the gang breaks down who's on top and who's making big moves -- both good and bad -- in this year's rankings. Joe and Elie also have an extended discussion about racist cars, specifically what to make of a new report suggesting that self-driving cars are more likely to strike African-American pedestrians.

Special thanks to our sponsor, Smith.ai.

Mar 12 2019

36mins

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Rank #5: Just How Smart Are You?

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Joe and Elie hit the road, coming to DC to ask some bar trivia questions to benefit the DC Bar Pro Bono Project. The winning score was 19/30... can you do better?

Aug 28 2018

54mins

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Rank #6: Law School Decision 2019 (Part II)

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Joe and Elie continue to offer their answers on questions they've received from prospective law students asking “where should I go to school?” Balancing regional offers? Trying to decide what market to practice in? Choosing between the murky world of "just below T14"? Tune in and hear our advice on how to properly manage the law school adventure.

Special thanks to our sponsor, Smith.ai.

Apr 30 2019

29mins

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Rank #7: The Danger Of For-Profit Law Schools

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After years of giving them a pass, the ABA is cracking down on flagging for-profit law schools that consistently produce few graduates with legal jobs while raking in huge bucks. But how did these schools manage to make it this far? Social anthropologist Dr. Riaz Tejani spent three years working at a for-profit law school and has compiled his research in LawMart: Justice, Access, And For-Profit Law Schools. He joins Joe and Elie this week to talk about his work.

Special thanks to our sponsor Major, Lindsey & Africa.

Jul 24 2018

27mins

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Rank #8: How To Decide On A Law School: We Answer Even More Questions

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Last time, Elie and Joe tackled a number of audience emails asking for counsel on where they should attend law school. That episode triggered a deluge of follow-up emails from listeners with their own questions, so the guys put their "Decision" hats back on and talked through even more law school scenarios. Can you get to Biglaw from a second-tier school? Have you spread your applications too thin? Are you deciding between Harvard and Stanford? We address all these questions and more.

Special thanks to our sponsor Major, Lindsey & Africa.

May 08 2018

36mins

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Rank #9: Getting Inside A Judge's Head

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Many folks become lawyers so they don't have to deal with math anymore. It's one of those weaknesses that holds back the profession as a business. Yet, cutting-edge tech is bringing number crunching to the fingertips of lawyers everywhere in the form of easy to use data analytics. Joe and Elie talk to Josh Becker of LexisNexis about the release of Context, a new tool that delivers deep insights into judicial idiosyncracies by analyzing the language of their body of work.

Special thanks to our sponsor, Smith.ai.

Dec 05 2018

21mins

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Rank #10: The Changing Legal Office

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The legal workplace would be almost unrecognizable to a lawyer of the past. The typewriters are gone, WordPerfect is gone, the fax machines are going, and a whole host of new platforms providing services that those older lawyers could never have imagined. Joe and Elie chat with Casepoint CEO Haresh Bhungalia and Casepoint Chief Strategy Officer David Carns about the legal technology landscape generally and Casepoint specifically and how each are changing the legal workflow.

Sep 25 2018

22mins

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Rank #11: Law School Students Need To Figure Out Where They're Going To Work

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With offers for summer employment going out to law students around the country, Thinking Like A Lawyer unveils its annual "The Offer" series. If you're wondering which of your offers you should take, Joe and Elie are happy to anonymously discuss them. Just send them to tips@abovethelaw.com subject line "The Offer." In the meantime, here are some general thoughts on the job hunt process.

Oct 22 2019

33mins

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Rank #12: New Law School Rankings, The Plight Of The Managing Partner, And In-House Work In The #MeToo Era

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Joe and Elie catch their breath by recapping the top legal stories of last week. At the annual meeting of the Association of Corporate Counsel, Elie describes an in-house community deeply concerned with navigating the #MeToo era, the gang discusses the abrupt decision of Baker McKenzie's managing partner to step down for "exhaustion," and the pair argue over a new set of law school rankings.

Oct 30 2018

35mins

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Rank #13: The Dumbest Law School Exam Question Ever

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Elie and Joe sit down to discuss one of the truly stupid law school final exams in history. Did it cover material that could reasonably come up in future practice? No. Did it require reasoning through currently controlling precedent? No. Was it wildly offensive? Oh, you better believe it was.

Jun 28 2018

29mins

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Rank #14: The 2018 Top 50 Law Schools

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Joe and Elie discuss Above the Law's annual ranking of the top law schools in America with ATL Research Director Brian Dalton. There were some major shifts at the top of this year's ranking, and Elie isn't happy about any of them.

Brian Dalton is the director of research at Breaking Media.

Special thanks to our sponsor Major, Lindsey & Africa.

Jun 21 2018

23mins

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Rank #15: The Kavanaugh Confirmation Hearings

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Joe and Elie review the week that was in the Kavanaugh confirmation fight. Procedural fights! Threatened explusion! Giving false testimony to the Senate! Mysterious Kasowitz connections! After a wild week, will Brett Kavanaugh still have the votes to narrowly get confirmed to the Supreme Court? We'll just have to wait and find out. But the answer is yes.

Sep 12 2018

33mins

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Rank #16: Would You Rather? But Legal

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Joe and Elie address some hypothetical situations about the legal industry and discuss which path they'd rather take knowing what they know. Imagine Thinking Like A Lawyer's "The Decision" series helping students choose a law school, but applied to a bunch of random legal questions.

Aug 13 2019

34mins

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Rank #17: Is It Okay To Talk About Women In Law Now?

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Elie and Joe talk with Above the Law's Kathryn Rubino about the challenges faced by women who go into Biglaw. From the struggle for equitable leave policies to hazing to sexual harassment, the legal industry is fraught with obstacles. Kathryn's new project, The Jabot aims to bring together a community to discuss these and other issues facing women and minorities.

Oct 31 2017

30mins

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Rank #18: The One Thing That Might Force Law Schools To Be More Practical

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The "practice-ready" law school model is oft-discussed and rarely implemented, but maybe technology will finally force law schools to focus on teaching practical skills. Joe and Kathryn chat with Jessica Robinson, Vice President of Client Services at Casepoint about the maturation of the eDiscovery process, the project management lessons that fuel effective discovery, and the importance of learning the theory of discovery before entering an increasingly automating practice.

Special thanks to our sponsor, Logikcull.

Dec 10 2019

26mins

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Rank #19: Mastering On-Campus Interviewing

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As on-campus interviewing season begins, Joe and Elie welcome Vanderbilt Law School's Associate Director of Career Services Nick Alexiou to discuss the on-campus interviewing process. Learn to master the arcane art of speed dating with law firms and answering the difficult question, "why do you want to work here?".

And the event details are here: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/trivia-challenge-at-iltacon-tickets-46580583780

Special thanks to our sponsor Major, Lindsey & Africa.

Aug 14 2018

39mins

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Rank #20: A Banner Week For Legal Gossip

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The Washington Post's Style section isn't normally where you'd go for your lawyerly insights, but last week they graced us with not one, but two legal stories. Joe Patrice and guest host Kathryn Rubino dive into Tiffany Trump's alleged law school woes and the hilariously grumpy life of Wachtell's George Conway as he navigates his days married to Kellyanne. There's also some Brett Kavanaugh talk, because why not?

Aug 21 2018

26mins

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Life On The Other Side Of The V

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When it comes to litigation, law schools generally funnel students into larger, defense-oriented firms. These firms offer steady paychecks -- all the better to pay your monthly debt bill, my dear -- and a tried and true path. But there is another side to the "v" and it often involves better opportunities and more rewarding work. Joe and Elie chat with Edelson PC about the tech-oriented plaintiff and class action firm's work from protecting biometric privacy rights to addressing sexual misconduct in youth sports with partner Chris Dore and associates Aaron Lawson and Sydney Janzen.

Special thanks to our sponsor, Logikcull.

Jan 21 2020

36mins

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Non-Equity Means Non-Partner

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More and more firms are adopting a non-equity partner tier, delaying equity consideration while extracting maximum value from high billing but relatively lowly paid senior attorneys tied to the job by the dangling hope of a future promotion that may never arrive.

Special thanks to our sponsor, Logikcull.

Jan 14 2020

30mins

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In Memoriam... To All The Law Firms We Lost Last Decade

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With the 2010s wrapping up, Joe and Kathryn focus on all the law firms we've lost over the last decade. Industry pressures, bad strategies, and fraud allegations managed to put several former mainstays to rest over the last 10 years. What lessons can we take from the demise of these once-proud firms? Where is this whole profession heading? Will this next recession finish off what 2009 started?

Special thanks to our sponsor, Logikcull.

Jan 08 2020

31mins

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The Top Stories of 2019

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To close out the year, Joe runs down the top 10 stories of the year at Above the Law. Are there key insights or interesting trends to be gained from reviewing the site’s traffic figures? Probably not, but here we are.

Special thanks to our sponsor, Logikcull.

Dec 30 2019

15mins

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Impeachapalooza

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The president of the United States was impeached for only the third time in history. Let the obscure legal theorizing begin! Joe and Elie break down the curious argument that the House doesn’t even need to hand over the articles.

Special thanks to our sponsor, Logikcull.

Dec 23 2019

30mins

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The Happiest Time Of The Year: Bonus Time!

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It's bonus season in Biglaw, and the major firms are slowly but surely rolling out their bonus announcements and telling associates what they'll be getting in their stockings this year. But Elie sees a bit of a Scrooge in the early first move and slow matching cycle. What's going on with the legal market and are we really looking at a recession in the making?

Special thanks to our sponsor, Logikcull.

Dec 17 2019

32mins

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The One Thing That Might Force Law Schools To Be More Practical

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Read more

The "practice-ready" law school model is oft-discussed and rarely implemented, but maybe technology will finally force law schools to focus on teaching practical skills. Joe and Kathryn chat with Jessica Robinson, Vice President of Client Services at Casepoint about the maturation of the eDiscovery process, the project management lessons that fuel effective discovery, and the importance of learning the theory of discovery before entering an increasingly automating practice.

Special thanks to our sponsor, Logikcull.

Dec 10 2019

26mins

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Fighting For The Innocent (Rebroadcast)

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Disclaimer: This episode was originally aired on October 16, 2018.

Joe and Elie take a serious turn, talking to University of Cincinnati Law Professor Mark Godsey, director of the Ohio Innocence Project, and author of Blind Injustice about the scourge of wrongful convictions, prosecutorial misconduct, and the trouble with local elections. Professor Godsey, a former prosecutor himself, discusses his conversion to an advocate for the wrongfully convicted and his grasp of the psychology that consistently lands the wrong people in prison. Speaking of psychology, Elie discusses whatever’s going on in Kanye’s head.

Special thanks to our sponsor, Logikcull.

Dec 03 2019

30mins

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The Roberts Court Is Here

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It's cliché to say that the addition of every new Justice should be considered the beginning of a whole new Supreme Court. But with Kavanaugh's controversial arrival on the bench, there's reason to believe the Roberts Court really did become something fundamentally different. Slate's Mark Joseph Stern joins the show to discuss his new book American Justice 2019: The Roberts Court arrives, tracking the Chief Justice as he navigates "the political fray without abandoning his conservative instincts."

Special thanks to our sponsor, Logikcull and Themis.

Nov 26 2019

35mins

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Preparing For The Bar Exam -- The Last Test You'll Ever Take

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Joe and Elie chat with Rich Douglas, COO of Themis, about the bar exam and how to conquer it. Rich also tells us about the Themis Law School Essentials program of free review materials for law school courses and we discuss the impact the GRE is going to have on law school admissions.

Special thanks to our sponsor, Logikcull.

Nov 19 2019

35mins

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Making The Profession Work For Military Spouses

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With Veteran's Day this week, we decided to focus on a group that faces professional hurdles that most lawyers don't. Attorneys married into the military find themselves moving around the country or overseas every couple of years, which presents a problem in a practice still largely geographically fixed. Joe chats with Michelle Richart, a military spouse who finds an avenue to keep her career moving as a freelance attorney. Kristin Tyler of Lawclerk also joins the show to talk specifically about how Lawclerk helps connect freelancers with projects.

Nov 12 2019

20mins

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Birds, Books, And Blogs. Oh My!

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There's a bird loose in the Harvard Law School library, prompting Joe and Elie to have an impromptu debate over whether or not libraries are still essential in a world of digital research. Speaking of the internet, Deadspin's entire staff resigned last week and the duo discuss the legal and policy implications of the blogosphere's loss. Labor law, private equity business models, the bankruptcy code... it's all involved in the otherwise straightforward demise of a venerable publication.

And Elie complains about Halloween.

Special thanks to our sponsor, Logikcull.

Nov 05 2019

32mins

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Let's Get Wildly Off Topic

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This week's discussion of law firm growth trajectories never gets to happen as Elie's irritation with Trump's lawyers spills into the entire show. Becoming a bag man for the Ukraine deal raises ethical concerns, but is merely representing Trump an ethical problem? More to the point, is it something bar disciplinary committees should really be looking into?

Oct 29 2019

32mins

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Law School Students Need To Figure Out Where They're Going To Work

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With offers for summer employment going out to law students around the country, Thinking Like A Lawyer unveils its annual "The Offer" series. If you're wondering which of your offers you should take, Joe and Elie are happy to anonymously discuss them. Just send them to tips@abovethelaw.com subject line "The Offer." In the meantime, here are some general thoughts on the job hunt process.

Oct 22 2019

33mins

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The Challenges Facing In-House Counsel In 2019

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Joe and Elie discuss the in-house world. Lawyers and law students often daydream about what they perceive as the cushy world of going in-house. But these lawyers face their own challenges. A recent comprehensive survey of corporate legal departments reveals confusion over privacy requirements and complaints over outside counsel costs.

Oct 15 2019

33mins

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Lawyers On TV

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Joe and Kathryn have a spontaneous chat about lawyers on television. From game shows to reality competitions, lawyers were all over the place last week. In a sense though, aren't these shows metaphors for the legal profession? No, they're probably not -- but that's not going to stop us from trying to explain how they might be.

Oct 08 2019

24mins

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Sure Impeachment Is Serious, But Look At This Lawyer Cat!

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Brazil has officially made a cat an attorney and this week Kathryn and Joe explore the feline's new career serving as both legal mascot and a symbolic advocate for animal legal concerns in the country. Meanwhile, Elie tries to speculate about impeachment and mostly fails because who cares about hearings that haven't even started yet when there's A LAWYER CAT TO TALK ABOUT!

Oct 01 2019

29mins

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The Opioid Suits

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Joe and Elie are joined by Alaric Dearment of MedCity News to discuss the legal framework surrounding the opioid lawsuits. How does something like this become a stunning breakdown of regulation in the face of industry greed? This is your overview.

Sep 25 2019

25mins

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Revenge Is A Dish Best Not Served To Guests In Weil's Cafeteria

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Joe and Kathryn discuss the top stories of the week at Above the Law including the rise and fall of Judge Posner's pro se organization, Weil Gotshal's cafeteria cold shoulder, and the California Bar's good news. Plus we talk a bit about Emory's struggles with racial slurs. Just another week in the annals of the legal industry.

Sep 17 2019

33mins

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The Many, Many Obstacles To Biglaw Diversity

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Kathryn Rubino joins Joe for a discussion of the latest Mansfield Rule efforts and the problem of lagging Biglaw diversity generally. From reputational rankings to deequitization to bar exam shenanigans the obstacles to building a truly diverse workforce in law are more baked into the system than current reforms seem able to handle.

Sep 10 2019

31mins

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iTunes Ratings

201 Ratings
Average Ratings
148
20
7
6
20

Best Legal Podcast

By Michael Sneeringer - Jan 15 2020
Read more
Each week I learn something new. I appreciate Joe Patrice’s humor.

Great pod

By camdggfhbdsh - Nov 24 2019
Read more
Love Elie and Joe. Great stuff.