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Welcome to IndoctriNation: A weekly podcast covering cults, manipulators, and protecting yourself from systems of control.

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Ashamed of Being a Woman w/ Sarabeth Kapusta, survivor - S5E4pt2

Earlier in the season, Rachel spoke with Cyndy Rudd: a mother who fought to free her daughter from not one, but two cultic situations. This week we hear the inside story from her daughter, Sarabeth.Sarabeth grew up in a cult for 25 years before falling into another group masquerading as a Baptist church. In both groups, members were not allowed to question authority because that would be challenging God's word. Her faith in scripture was used to convince her to move in with several other young women and live above the pastor's garage. Sarabeth also talks about a phenomenon she has experienced in both groups idealizing submissive women: the requirement to grow up and support the men by being a stay-at-home daughter. With the mind of an attorney and educator, she was able, in retrospect, to decode her manipulator and realize that both cults were using scripture out of context to create fear and control. Stay tuned, Before You Go: How cult leaders and narcissists warp your intentions and turn your true character and innocent nature into something seen as sinister. Rachel opens up about one of her own experiences. Next week mother and daughter sit down together to have a conversation they've never had before. Listen to Cyndy's story, "No Match for a Mother's Love": https://soundcloud.com/indoctrinationshow/cyndy

1hr 2mins

15 Apr 2020

Rank #1

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Escape From NXIVM w/ Catherine Oxenberg - S2E4

In today's episode of IndoctriNation, Rachel is joined by Catherine Oxenberg, star of the TV show Dynasty, and the daughter of the Princess of Yugoslavia. They discuss both her recently published book, Captive, and how her daughter India is doing after leaving the NXICM cult. The organization was run by Keith Raniere, and heavily bankrolled by billionaire Seagram's heiress Clare Bronfman. Catherine and Rachel consulted with each other after Catherine found out that her daughter was recruited into the secret upper-echelon of NXIVM called "DOS" where the women were branded. Stay tuned, Before You Go: Explore the struggle of stepping in as a parent to an adult who is being manipulated by undue influence. Rachel encourages people who care about their loved ones in compromising situations to ask hard questions, even if it means being seen as critical.Listen to Catherine's harrowing tale, and view her book: https://www.amazon.com/Captive-Mothers-Crusade-Daughter-Terrifying/dp/1982100656


3 Sep 2018

Rank #2

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Problematic Polyamory w/ Eve Rickert - S3E14pt1

Eve Rickert identified as polyamorous for 14 years, meaning she had multiple romantic partners simultaneously, with everyone's consent. When she became involved with Franklin Veaux, a well-known polyamorous writer whose sprawling website had become a touchstone for many polyamorous people; the two worked together for many years, helping him publish several books based on his past polyamorous relationships.Over time, she began to suffer from the very brand of "ethical" polyamory they were promoting-- and started to see signs that Veaux, and his history, were not what she'd been led to believe. She and five other women came forward within a transformative justice framework, committed to telling their stories while also offering Franklin an opportunity to listen and learn from the ways he'd affected the women in his life. Since then, about six more women have come forward. Stay tuned, Before You Go: Rachel explains the show's new direction, and how the IndoctriNation podcast aims to explore manipulation tactics through a variety of social realms.Read the survivor accounts here:https://polyamory-metoo.com/Veaux survivor pod Medium page: http://medium.com/@fv.survivor.pod/Eve and Franklin's book:"More Than Two: A Practical Guide to Ethical Polyamory", one of the most popular books on polyamory https://www.amazon.com/More-Than-Two-Practical-Polyamory/dp/0991399706


28 May 2019

Rank #3

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Escaping NXIVM w/ Catherine Oxenberg Re-Release - S2E4pt1

IndoctriNation presents its first re-release from 10 months ago, when Rachel was joined by Catherine Oxenberg who had been fighting to pull her daughter away from the cult NXIVM. They discuss her book, Captive, and her daughter India's experience during and after leaving the group.Run by Keith Raniere, who was just convicted on all charges on June 19, 2019, the organization was heavily bankrolled by billionaire Seagram's heiress Clare Bronfman and others. Catherine consulted Rachel after discovering that her daughter was recruited into the secret upper-echelon called "DOS", where its members were nearly starved and branded.There will be a follow-up episode with Catherine soon!Stay tuned, Before You Go: Explore the struggle of stepping in as a parent to an adult who is being manipulated by undue influence. Rachel encourages people who care about their loved ones in compromising situations to ask hard questions, even if it means being seen as critical.


22 Jun 2019

Rank #4

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Emotional Vampires - Narcissists and Cult Leaders in Relationships w/ Dan Shaw, ex-Siddha - S3E7pt1

Part 1 of a 2 Part interview, Rachel speaks with her colleague: New York based author, social worker, psychoanalyst and cult survivor Dan Shaw. After leaving the Siddha Yoga cult in the 90s, Dan received his Masters and rededicated his life to helping those who had been traumatized and subjugated by narcissist partners, cult leaders included. He tours, lectures, and speaks at conferences around the world and you can check out his website at www.danielshawlcsw.com Stay tuned, Before You Go: Rachel talks about why narcissists have to use subjugating techniques to maintain their control-- being treated like a pet, rather than a partner.


13 Mar 2019

Rank #5

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"You Only Know What You Know" w/ April, ex-Scientology - S3E15pt1

April’s former fear of psychology, medication, therapy, and even yoga were ingrained from a young age as she grew up in the Church of Scientology. She was taught to view mental health specialists as people who only wanted to capitalize on other people’s problems, and issue brainwashing medications. Scientology auditing replaced programs that could be helpful, and instead used their power to take advantage of the participants’ fears and need for acceptance. Rachel and April discuss the cause of epidemic suicide in young people who have no one to turn to outside of an abusive organization, after going through behavior modifications.Stay tuned, Before You Go: Rachel offers advice for breaking the cycle of manipulation when an abuser refuses to acknowledge their role. She encourages those who feel guilty for speaking up or taking action to be confident in their critical thinking skills.

1hr 15mins

18 Jun 2019

Rank #6

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Scientology's Belly Of The Beast w/ Tony Ortega - S1E15

Rachel catches up with award winning independent investigative journalist Tony Ortega, who has been writing about Scientology since 1995. An important contributor to the famous expose "Going Clear", he's worked with: Jon Atack, Paulette Cooper, and many more to expose the dark underbelly of Los Angeles' most insidious cult. His new book "Battlefield Scientology" launches next month and his website, "The Underground Bunker" is updated frequently. Keep up with him at https://tonyortega.org/Stay Tuned Before You Go: Rachel speaks on how important freedom of speech is in fighting back against brainwashing, and the secret language of Nu Shu that Chinese women taught themselves when they were forbidden to read and write.


1 Aug 2018

Rank #7

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Parasitic Relationships w/ Rachel Bernstein, LMFT - S4E14pt1

Have you ever wanted to know what it's like to be with a narcissist? Rachel walks us through a deep psychoanalysis of narcissistic types; tying in real stories from her experience as a therapist.Learn tips to distinguish bad social behavior from manipulation. Unfortunately, this type of abuse can be present in relationships with parents, partners, employers-- people you should be able to trust. Some take advantage of others' loyalty for their own benefit. Rachel debunks common excuses they use to dismiss their own behavior and project blame onto their victim.Hear Rachel's first solo episode, "Home Invasion": https://soundcloud.com/indoctrinationshow/episode-16-home-invasionStay tuned, Before You Go: Rachel shares the story of a girl whose relationship with her narcissistic father led to her being manipulated again by her partner as an adult. She describes many of the unhealthy relationships she's seen as a therapist and gives advice on separating yourself from a parasitic person.Have you been in a relationship with a narcissist? Share your story in the comments, or the IndoctriNation Facebook Discussion Page.


1 Dec 2019

Rank #8

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Denying Your Intuition w/ Robert & Alexandra Menna, ex-Ramtha's School - S2E7pt1

In today's episode, Rachel chats with Alexandra and Robert Menna. Alexandra was ensnared into Ramtha's School of Enlightenment under the tutelage of the channeler JZ Knight. Her father, businessman and model Robert Menna, became determined to get her out. In part one, Alexandra and Robert discuss how she was brought into the cult under advice of his friend Bodhananda, and how she believed she was training to be a goddess.Stay tuned, Before You Go: One-on-one "cults within cults", and how there are many layers to systemic manipulation and abuse.


26 Sep 2018

Rank #9

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Join Vanessa LaRose as she exits Scientology - S4E11pt1

After being disconnected from her Scientologist parents for some time, Vanessa LaRose has decided it's finally time to break ties with the "church". She shares how she found Rachel through an underground network and ironically began to study psychology and therapy after fearing it for so long.Vanessa grew up with some of the top Scientology schooling and businesses. She has agreed to share her experience, though she's still in the process of disconnecting from the organization which includes an intense shunning process. Vanessa shares what she knows about how and why the group worked to become recognized as a religion, and explains some Scientology terms.Stay tuned, Before You Go: Rachel debunks the Oxford personality test distributed to recruit people into Scientology, and invites folks to find out more before taking a test that can alter the way you see yourself. Learn more about the Oxford Personality test from Chris Shelton's video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5F7Tw3XmCA&t=824s


15 Oct 2019

Rank #10

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Detouring My Depression w/ Vanessa LaRose - S4E11pt2

Vanessa LaRose's father worked extremely hard to hire a Scientology counselor because it was the only other option within the rules of the group that could potentially help her with anxiety and depression. She continues explaining how her experience with auditing-- and training to become an auditor-- has impacted her goals.A third video interview with Vanessa is available this weekend on Patreon. She explains more Scientology techniques such as "training routines" that promote dissociation. She also offers tips for restoring your mindfulness and taking back control of your mental health. Support the show as a Patron for perks and extra content!Stay tuned, Before You Go: What are the signs of depression- and what could be causing it?


26 Oct 2019

Rank #11

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Taking Back Time w/ Sands Hall, ex-Scientologist - S5E1

Today we begin a new year! For many, this is a much needed fresh start. Sands Hall, playwright and author of "Reclaiming my Decade Lost in Scientology" talks about how to take back what can seem like lost years.A common phrase among many survivors of abusive organizations is "I can't believe how many years I did that". Most people don't believe that they could slowly be indoctrinated to believe in things that are contradictory to their character. When a person leaves a manipulative group, they have to learn to trust themselves and face their learned fears, especially when speaking out against an abuser. Sands's fears came true, but she and her story stood strong-- when Scientology attempted to remove her book from Amazon. You can find her book on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Flunk-Start-Reclaiming-Decade-Scientology-ebook/dp/B071P44P9RStay tuned, Before You Go: People often forget how their minds can be changed; little by little. Rachel explains Sands Hall's phrase "screwing on the viewfinder", used to describe the way one's worldview can be altered in microscopic increments.IndoctriNation is starting its fifth season and the New Year by announcing another call-in episode! This show will focus on beginning a new chapter in your life. What motivated you to leave a damaging situation and what has helped you as you follow a new path? You can also ask Rachel any questions you may have that might help you along your journey.Call and leave Rachel a voicemail, at:1-(818)-907-0036or send an email at:indoctrinationshow@gmail.com


29 Dec 2019

Rank #12

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Welcome To Your New Family w/ Karen and her psychic - S2E13

Karen was living in a state of crisis. She didn't get along with her mother or brother, and her father had just suffered a heart attack. She felt truly alone, and scared of losing her father. On an impulse, she went with a friend to a "Psychic". The "Psychic" slowly isolated Karen from her family and friends, using her for free labor, using her to get benzos and opioids, and claimed her as her own daughter. After draining her savings account, she was manipulated into extorting money from her actual family. Stay tuned, Before You Go: Rachel speaks about the importance of addressing our fears and anxieties in safe ways.

1hr 23mins

12 Dec 2018

Rank #13

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Do I Stay or Do I Go? w/ Rachel Bernstein, LMFT - S4E14pt2

How do you get strong enough to leave someone when you've felt shaky for so long? Narcissists have a way of pushing your needs aside and making you believe that decisions you make for yourself are the wrong ones. Rachel encourages listeners to find the strength to set boundaries and stick to them. Listen to Part 1 here: https://soundcloud.com/indoctrinationshow/rachel-on-narcissismBefore You Go: Why do people stay so long in relationships that are unhealthy?


11 Dec 2019

Rank #14

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"If It's Not Witness Brand Truth, It's Garbage" w/ Jolie Holland, ex-Jehovah's Witness - S3E5pt1

Jolie Holland is a musician, singer, writer, and ghost storyteller. She was also raised in the Jehovah's Witnesses. In Part 1 of Rachel's sit down with Jolie, you'll hear amazing and horrifying stories about growing up in a cult. The boredom, the creative suppression, and the misogyny are all explored.Stay tuned, Before You Go: Rachel speaks about stolen childhoods when some children are not encouraged to take risks, follow their hearts and learn about their capabilities in the world, and how to start to turn that around. Have a question or a story to share? Shoot us an email at IndoctriNationShow@gmail.com and check out Rachel's practice at RachelBernsteinTherapy.com


20 Feb 2019

Rank #15

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The Euphoria of Belief w/ James Underdown, Center for Inquiry - S1E3

A discussion on the importance of skepticism and how people fall into dogmatic thinking with James Underdown, Executive Director of the Center of Inquiry, LA.Stay tuned, Before You Go (41:55): Rachel talks scams & why they work.


29 Apr 2018

Rank #16

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I Have To Ask You Before I Talk To My Son? w/ Daniel O'Brien, ex-JW - S2E11

Happy Thanksgiving! In today's episode: Daniel O'Brien, a high school educator in the Conejo Valley, sits down with Rachel about his 20 years in the Jehovah's Witness. Unhappy with his parents and life after quitting high school, Daniel went all in for Jehovah. Dedicating himself to being the best Witness he could, he became an elder and joined the Theocratic Ministry School for 14 years, where he realized he enjoyed teaching but also learned that the Jehovah's Witnesses are a corrupt organization that, like other high-control groups, weaponize guilt, shame, and fear to keep members in line. After being "Disfellowshipped", or shunned, by his wife, sons, and peers; he spent four years winning back their trust before leaving the cult for good.Stay tuned, Before You Go: Rachel speaks on the differences and similarities between cults and other controlling organizations, like the Jehovah's Witnesses.Check out Daniel's music on Soundcloud:https://soundcloud.com/dannymuse/az-e-n-katita-m https://soundcloud.com/dannymuse/blues-for-huddie-1

1hr 4mins

21 Nov 2018

Rank #17

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The Hidden World of Jehovah's Witnesses w/ Tony DuShane, ex-JW - S1E7

Rachel speaks with Tony DuShane about growing up in the Jehovah's Witnesses, leaving the group, being disconnected from his family, and rediscovering his life; from dating and sex, to finding a new creative purpose. His film, "Confessions of a Teenage Jesus Jerk" is available on Amazon and Google Play!Stay tuned, Before You Go: How abusers respond when you realize your own strength or recognize you are being controlled. Rachel explains the false concept of drapetomania, a fabricated and racist 'ailment' used to place blame on an enslaved person's behavior.

1hr 14mins

28 May 2018

Rank #18

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The Experiment w/ Katharina Meredith ex-Lichtoase (Light Oasis) cult - S5E5pt1

CW: Abuse against childrenKatharina Meredith is a PhD student studying subjects like Community Psychology and Extremism after spending her childhood in a cult called Lichtoase. The New Age beliefs of Lichotase (translated to Light Oasis) were modeled off of Ramtha's school and adapted into workshops across Germany and Austria. Eventually, the group formed communes where children were raised separately from their parents by caretakers who never cared for children themselves. Katharina's parents joined the cult when she was 10 years old. After leaving the cult 17 years ago, she has helped to further develop and eventually spearhead the non-profit Stronger After which was started by Rachel Bernstein, Lee Marsh, and Frances Peters.Learn more on about this program at:Stronger-After.orgStay tuned, Before You Go: Peer pressure. Where is the social tension really coming from?


9 Feb 2020

Rank #19

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I Met My Cult Leader At the Beach w/ Hoyt Richards, ex-Eternal Values - S1E9pt1

Rachel speaks with scholar, filmmaker, athlete, and former model Hoyt Richards on how he met a man, as a teenager, named Freddy-- who manipulated him into joining the Eternal Values religious cult.For Part 2 of the interview, the episode is only available at http://www.Patreon.com/Indoctrination. Hoyt describes the cult's descent into apocalyptic paranoia, the hours of abuse and public shaming that followers suffered almost daily, and how he finally escaped and got his life back.


11 Jun 2018

Rank #20