THE CHANGEROOM | Episode 8 (Featuring Carvin Goldstone)
This week on The Changeroom, Sbu got hit with the flu but Tibs is joined by our first special guest Mr Carvin Goldstone as they breakdown Soweto Derby, Sharks vs Lions European Football and much more. Question of the Day MVP of the Week Team of the Week Support the channel by following us on social media. Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thechangeroomza Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thechangeroomza Presenters Handles Carvin Goldstone: @carvingoldstone Tibs Dhlomo: @tibsdumi_official Production Handle OD Media: @oceandrivenmedia
Carvin Goldstone is a comedian but you already knew that. Carvin is one of the most successful comedians to come out of Durban. With multiple successful international tours under his belt and a couple of popular specials on TV, Carvin has been living the stand-up comedy dream for a while now. So imagine my surprise when Carvin started this interview by talking about how much he's been enjoying staying put and withdrawing from public life. Like many of us in the entertainment industry, Carvin started the lockdown by furiously creating content but soon found himself questioning "Why?". In this episode, we chat about the online rat race and not wanting to participate in it anymore. We get into the importance of protecting your peace but how you have to try different things to really know whether or not they're for you. We also find out some behind-the-scenes info on how selling a comedy special in South Africa works, and we have an honest discussion about the past, present, and future of Durban comedy. Enjoy. Keep up with Carvin on Facebook and Instagram. https://almostperfect.co.za/almost-perfect-72-carvin-goldstone-returns/
The Daily Dose with Dr Suhayl Essa- Carvin Goldstone and Covid-19
The Daily Dose With Dr Suhayl Essa
In this episode listeners get an inside scoop from an ex-journalist turned stand-up comedian on Covid-19 in South Africa and what we can expect. Carvin Goldstone discusses strategies for income generation for comedians and after stacks of data analysis he gives us predictions on what's to come. Being a fellow stand-up comedian you can expect some hearty laughs with this one.
Carvin Goldstone is a Durban based comedian who's built an incredible fan base with his unique brand of nostalgic and feel good comedy.We chatted about his career as a journalist, finding his feet as a christian rapper and his meteoric rise in the world of stand up comedy.
I sit down and chat to Carvin who is such a great comedic talent. We speak about his family heritage, my beef with a radio DJ - listen to the audio clip I have to show how dumb he is - How Carvin remembers me getting into fights with audience members and the cutest story about his son who is his "tour manager". Enjoy!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Master storyteller Carvin Goldstone tells us why stories are so powerful #08
LifeShot Health & Wellness
Carvin Goldstone is a master story teller, his talent lies in telling stories that bring joy, laughter and comfort to his audiences, the world over. Listen in as he gives us a glimpse into his experiences and the ways in which he tell stories to influence others. My interview with Carvin Goldstone the Comedian was filled with life lessons. We spoke about building your personal brand, being able to laugh at yourself, facing your fears and getting in front of people to have conversations. Why story telling is so important and forms the basis for good natural conversations. http://www.carvingoldstone.com Transcription: Interviewer: Welcome to the LifeShot. Interviewee: Happy to be at the LifeShot. Interviewer: So you are here, in England, you are visiting. You came to do a show. Interviewee: Yeah, it has been fun, hanging out with the people of England. Such contrasting experiences in different parts of the UK. Interviewer: You have been here before then? Interviewee: It's been a long time, though. Interviewer: Many years ago? Interviewee: Yeah, it's changed a bit. London is still very particular compared to the rest of England. It's so friendly and peaceful out here where you are. In London, it's still very... Interviewer: Everyone's competing, right? Interviewee: It's very aggressive, actually. You can't just get on a bus. There is no politeness there. You have to basically push people out of the way, which I am pretty good at. But I am also conscious that I don't want to be seen as the 'pushy guy'. But it's almost encouraged. Interviewer: You have to push to get ahead. Interviewee: Yeah. Interviewer: Sometimes that is not a bad thing, though. But we don't want to step over each other as humans. Interviewee: Yeah, it feels like that. Interviewer: When we met, we started doing music first. And then, a few years later, you started to do comedy and it was a bit weird for us guys in the music group. Interviewee: Yes, this transition. Interviewer: It was like "Why is he doing comedy?", it seemed totally different to what we were doing at the time. So why did you like the media type, the comedies, now that you have carried on doing it, you have been doing it for many years now. Interviewee: Yeah. When we did music, it was difficult for us to really make a living off it, if you remember. Especially if you have a group with three guys or four guys. And you are getting paid a fee that is not even enough for one person and you split it among three or four people. We were eventually old enough to find jobs. Actually, I had a job. Interviewer: You were a journalist. Interviewee: I was a journalist, yeah. I was doing it more for fun. So the music and the comedy later were just side hobbies, just for fun. Because I had my full-time job, which I was quite passionate about. Interviewer: Why were you passionate about it? [00:02:28] Interviewee: Because I enjoyed it. I enjoyed journalism. I was a young reporter, I was excited about discovering new things, uncovering new things, telling stories. I was quite wrapped up in my journalism. The music was a different way of telling stories. And eventually comedy, the three fields that I find myself in - music, journalism and comedy - actually have the same base. They are just different ways of telling stories. I am essentially a storyteller. I am not so much a comedian or maybe a musician or journalist as much as I am in my core a storyteller. So these are just different ways of expressing my core. And I think I am about to discover a fourth one. Interviewer: Do you want to tell us now or later? Interviewee: I think the next step is going to be movie making. Interviewer: I remember you talking about making movies. Interviewee: Yeah, I was writing scripts a 15 years ago. Interviewer: I remember you wanted to do something with it, but never got around to do it. Interviewee: Everything runs its course, right? I think the music has run its course and so when we were getting toward the end of our album to be released, I could feel the shift and I can feel the shift again. So I don't think I will be a comedian for the next ten years. Maybe for the next few years and then the next phase of storytelling will take over. I think it's going to be definitely a movie or series-based route that I will find myself in next. Interviewer: So, as a storyteller, what message do you want to get out there? Is there something that you want to teach or do you just want to entertain people? Is it entertainment mostly? [00:04:18] Interviewee: Yeah. It's an important question, why do you do whatever you do? Why are you doing it? Is it to make a living, is it to pass the time, is it because you chose it early on in your life and now you are stuck with it? Because comedy wasn't a career choice, it was a hobby that has gotten out of hand. If I can call it that. I had to ask myself lots of questions, why am I doing this? Because I can drop this at any time and go back to my career. And I realized that my reason for doing comedy is comfort. I am here to bring comfort. Some people use comedy and storytelling for some sort of social justice or for an artistic expression. Or for conveying a message, political or otherwise. Mine is primarily to comfort the people that listen to me. So to bring joy and that is why my comedy is the way it is. It's clean and family-friendly. Because I pride myself in being able to perform to an entire family. Because it is a family experience, I am creating family experiences that are comforting. People that are going through difficult times, you can trust me with an hour of your life to make your life feel a bit better. To comfort you. And that is what the purpose of my comedy is. Interviewer: It's a shame to lose that if you stop comedy then. [00:05:47] Interviewee: Yeah, but you see, that is the core of what I am. Or why I am doing this. So my storytelling, a lot of it evolved in nostalgia and the warm, fuzzy feeling as you are hearing the story of "Ah, I remember that". It creates memories of your childhood or your Mum or your Dad. A lot of people say to me "You remind me of my Granny", or "You say things that remind me of my grandmother". Interviewer: It makes them feel warm and cosy. Interviewee: So the storytelling that I am going to do, and the movie scripts that I am working on, involve the creating of similar experiences and feelings. Because I feel it's more important to leave people with a feeling and an experience. Because that can last a lifetime. Interviewer: It's very influential, you can sometimes watch a documentary or a film and it can be inspiring. You walk out of the cinema and you feel a little bit elated. Interviewee: Exactly. And that feeling that I want to leave you with, is why I am here and why I am doing this. I feel that is my purpose in life. Interviewer: And that's a gift. You get on stage to make people laugh. Is that not something we should do in our everyday life, not take things so seriously and to laugh? And sometimes, to laugh with each other is to tell stories, I suppose. [00:07:02] Interviewee: Yeah. If you think of any home situation, you grew up in a family with lots of brothers. And then something happens and one brother comes and he says "You won't believe what happened today!". And he tells the story and the whole family laughs about what happened. The story that one of your brothers brought to the family, it wasn't necessarily a joke. It's a story. But it created an atmosphere of warmth and joy and laughter. And laughter is something you can't control, it just pops out. It's almost like your brain isn't able to process what has happened and the automatic response is laughter. So you can't really fake it. If someone says something and you laugh at something, even if it is inappropriate, your brain is like "I don't know how to answer this" and so you laugh. Interviewer: Are there any life lessons that you have learned while being on the road doing comedy that has changed your outlook? [00:08:05] Interviewee: Yeah, I think we are scared to take risks in general. We enjoy the comfort and the security of what we know and what we have always done. The comfort just to be sure of the outcome of whatever we are going to do. Interviewer: Be it worldview or our jobs. Interviewee: Yeah, your family, where you grew up, the people you hang out with. The familiarity makes you feel comfortable, sometimes too comfortable, safe. And comedy is one of those fields where you are judged immediately. You came to the show in the weekend, for example. You watched me and you judge me immediately. I tell the story or the joke and I know immediately whether it is good or bad. Because there is no later on to see the ratings. We know, all of us in that room, "That was not great". [laughs] And so, the feedback is so immediate that you have to stay on your toes, but you also have to take risks and be willing to fall. Interviewer: And that is the lesson that you can take outside of that? [00:09:15] Interviewee: Yeah, so that supplies now in every aspect of life. You have to take the risk to take the reward. The famous saying "Fortune favours the brave". Whether it is on stage telling a joke or if it is in business or relationships. Just taking a risk with someone you see in the train and have an opening conversation, "So what are you doing there on your computer?". That is a risk you take, right? Interviewer: Yeah, because they could say "None of your business". Interviewee: They could say that, but they could say something that changes your life or impacts or creates a new relationship. So the ability to face fear and not be too perplexed by the outcome. Interviewer: How do people handle rejection then? [00:09:59] Interviewee: This is the thing, the more you get rejected, the more you will be okay with rejection. And I think that is one of the things that you learn in comedy, because you tell a series of jokes over a period of years. And not all of them are great. And a lot of them are actually rejected. Maybe not the whole show, but that joke in particular, people are like "No". I have had a case where once I told a joke, I told a story as it happened. So at the Boston Marathon, there was a bombing at the Boston Marathon. And I had this joke about running the Boston Marathon myself. I will tell you the joke. But I told them on the day it happened. So the people were like "It's too soon". So I am one of those people in comedy who believes it is never too soon. It is just how well you contextualize what has happened and how quickly you give the feedback. If you wait, then you lose the shock and the impact of it. So something happens today, good or bad, you as the performer have to take the risk to decide how you contextualize the commentary. But the commentary is happening, no news agency is not reporting on it. They are saying something, just contextualizing in a way that makes you - the receiver - okay with discussing this. So the difference with comedy is that there is a laugh-element to it. We are further victimizing the victims and I am very conscious of that. In Africa, we had Oscar Pistorius who shot his girlfriend and there were a lot of jokes about Oscar Pistorius being a paraplegic or not having legs and how he shot his girlfriend. And I felt a lot of those jokes further victimized the victim, which was Reeva Steenkamp, who was killed in the incident. And I felt as if those jokes were not intelligent. So I did tell jokes, but it was never about the fact that Oscar tried to shoot his girlfriend. It was rather elements around the incident. So for example, back to the joke about the Boston Marathon, the joke was about me having a hard time running or taking part in the marathon. And I'd be so tired and if I heard "Hey guys, have you heard there is a bomb?". I would be like "I don't need to finish the race" and peeling off on the side. [sighs] "At least I don't need to finish, no one is watching anymore". And when I started it - now it's not in the context anymore, it doesn't sound so cool - the moment I said 'Boston Marathon', the crowd went "Ooohhh". The interesting thing was, I told the joke the next day, but I rephrased it, because I realized that I presented it in a way that it made it seem as if I was being insincere to the victims. The joke was more about me, being in a race. And the context of 'If this happened'. Interviewer: So was that a current contextual story, which people could relate to and you were trying to make it about yourself, not about the victims? [00:12:39] Interviewee: Yeah, the secret sometimes with telling sensitive stories, comedy lives in the world of controversy, of prejudice, of polarization. "You're from Manchester, you have a Welsh accent". He is black, he is white, he is male, she is female. A lot of those polarizing topics is where the prejudice of comedy lies. But it is the way you present that, it is a fine art and there is a very fine line between being prejudice, being racist and being observant and contributing to the conversation in a way we both laugh. Because it is our differences that make us so interesting. Sometimes, a comedian tells a joke on a topic that you have heard before, but it lifts you in a different feeling. It made you feel "I don't feel uncomfortable listening to this person". And maybe the context is even similar. It's because these topics, there is a fine line how you present them in a way where people feel a part of the conversation. And it's very powerful if you get them right. You can have a career that can transcend your own culture, countries and you can develop a fan base that spreads across the world. Interviewer: I remember talking at work once about it, a political, religious aspect of life. And people were a little bit like "Why are you talking about this in this context?". And they were a little bit uncomfortable with that, but the reason why I like to talk to people about things that are outside the normal conversation is to try and influence people to think outside of the box. And to think "Maybe what I am thinking is not right". I am not saying I have it right. But I just like to challenge people's thoughts. Do you do that a little bit? [00:14:27] Interviewee: If you have an office space and you are standing at the fax machine with a cup of coffee, and you are having a discussion and you say "Hey, what's up with this religion thing?", it's like "What is he going on about?". Interviewer: Don't start this topic, or that kind of thing. Interviewee: That is a risk and probably a risk I would not take in a conversation. But I would take that risk on stage. The topics of religion, politics and race, I would present them on stage. Only because I understand that humour is disarming. If you want to discuss those topics, humour is actually the best way to approach those topics. Because humour puts people at ease and a few laughs would make you more accepting about what I am about to say than if I come up at the coffee machine, it would be like "Oh, this guy really has some racist topics right now". You have to live in a world where you discuss polarizing topics, but you have an advantage in that you know people will be laughing. Because of the way the dynamic of a room works, I'm on stage, I'm elevated, I have a microphone. People have paid to come see me. I'm in a position of power. So, there is a power imbalance in the room the moment I step up. Which everyone has accepted by buying a ticket. But it's my job as the entertainer to level us. I will make a few jokes about myself. The reason for doing that is to level the room, so that you feel equal to me. And my style is very conversational. To anyone watching, it is almost as if we are having a conversation. It didn't feel like a performance. Because that is my style. Interviewer: You are engaging with that guy in the audience somewhere? [00:16:13] Interviewee: Yeah, it's a levelled room. It's bringing the room together. And then I know I can discuss topics where you are using humour. I am a flawed person. And the flaws make me easier to accept. So when I present my flaws to you - whatever they are - in humour, you then relax as an audience. You are like "Okay, this person is flawed like me. We can have fun". Interviewer: Should we do that in life as well, how do we do that in a social environment? Let's say we went to a party where we didn't know the people very well. If I went with my partner to a party and it's like "Some people I don't know there". [00:16:54] Interviewee: You see it often, you visit someone and they have a big house. And then you are like "What a beautiful house" and they are like "Oh, it's nothing, my Dad bought it". They try to play it down, so they are not on a pedestal. Or they bake a cake "Oh, it wasn't much". What they are trying to do socially, is trying to level. "I am not better than you because I made a cake", or "I am not better than you because this house is big". They try and give context "Oh, my Dad bought it", or "It's from the shop down the road", or "It's an old recipe my Gran had. It's not my intelligence that made this cake. It's my Gran's old recipe". Then we are all like "Yeah, I also have a Gran". So we are finding those common threads that make us equal. Comedy and good comedians are very good at creating that. But those social skills don't just exist in comedy, they exist as you rightly pointed out in social interactions between human beings. And there is a lot to gain from it. Even somebody who believes that they are socially inept or awkward or have no social skills. Those little titbits can be taught, you can learn those little tricks here and there that makes it a bit easier. And sometimes, all that is said in between us is that I see you as above me or you see me above you and therefore you have difficulty engaging. We'll meet someone, maybe someone who's famous and then you hear the comments after engaging with them. "Oh, they are so down to earth". Because in your mind, that block has been broken that the person is above you. You say "What a nice, down to earth person". The down to earth part is basically saying "He is just like us", or "She is just like us". That is the most important little leveller in social interactions, the ability to see people as you see yourself. Interviewer: You do a lot of shows and you must get a lot of different types of people coming to these shows. I am just assuming what might be going on in your brain is "These people have everyday jobs, they are going through struggles, I need to make them feel comfortable for the night and have a laugh". Everybody struggles in their life with wanting to be successful or wanting to make the most of this life. How should we see this life that we have? We have a limited time here on this planet. What is the best attitude or outlook we should have in this life? [00:19:24] Interviewee: Clint, I have known you since 2001. We are now 2019. So that is 18, almost 19 years that I have known you. We did music together, you made music as a band, I wrote some music for you. You made music for me, were part of the group that I was a part of. And at the time we had different goals, right? We were hoping to break through, maybe break through internationally, create a little label. We had little goals that we had set for ourselves, most of them retrospectively - after looking back 19 years - we haven't achieved. We never created the label. We don't own massive pieces of sound equipment that we could hire out. We have moved on with our lives. That whole experience that we endured, I look back at it so fondly, because it made me enjoy every moment as it happens. What we always do as human beings - and it's good to have goals - but we live in expectation and we are in-orientated "This is the road to there. Ah, I can't wait". The actual important part is the destination. But the true destination is actually the journey. So when I look back on the last twenty years or the twenty-year period or for the most part, the 10 years we did that, a little bit less, I realize that the goals weren't the destination or the joy. It was what was happening at the time. It was us in the actual bus traveling. That was the beauty. That was it. It was sitting in the studio and making the music. It wasn't the end goal, that was it. So our lives as 70, 80, 90 years if you are lucky, when you look over the course of 90 years, those moments, those five or six years we spent making music intensely, that was the beautiful destination. That was it. There was nothing necessarily coming off that, that we should have been ignoring this way. Not living in this moment, because we were waiting for the end. So I try as much - and for everyone - to live. Right now, we are doing this podcast. For me, this is the most important thing. Whether this podcast is getting 256 views or 256,000 views, the most important thing right now is you and me, my friend, we are doing this podcast and we are having this conversation. This is it. Interviewer: That's awesome! Do you think at the time when we were younger, we were enjoying those times at the time? Interviewee: Yes. Interviewer: But also, we probably think back more fondly on those times. [00:21:51] Interviewee: Yeah. Fortunately, we were enjoying ourselves. So it wasn't like we were having painful sessions, because we were looking for the goal. I think that's what happens to a lot of people at work. If you think about a job, a 9 to 5 job, you think of how many hours you spend at your job over a period, or if you have been at a company 20 years or in the field 25 years. If you don't like your job and you sleep 8 hours, you spend 8 to 9 hours at work, 2 to 3 hours traveling to and from work, you are looking at the half of your life awake, spending on something that you don't like. For 25 years, that's way too long. So people who are in that position are actually missing their moment. Because they are living in a world where they can't look back on it fondly and say "Wow!" What we fortunately were doing was, we were also building something. Building our lives and creating something. We were having as much fun as possible. So even retrospectively looking back on our lives of joy, of our complete life, you enjoy where you are now, you enjoy where you were then. What I am saying is, I wish I could have known this now and we would have enjoyed it even more then. Because we enjoyed it - fortunately for us we did - but we could have enjoyed it more if we understood "This is it". Interviewer: That's amazing, I love this message, because it helps me as well. Because obviously, I have goals and visions for what this might become. But you have to enjoy it right now. [00:23:19] Interviewee: You have to enjoy it right now. Just enjoy every interview, every podcast, every mic-setup, every lighting-setup. The anticipation of the guest coming, the meeting with guests, off-camera conversations, your pre-preparation when you are writing your notes. That's all the joy. The joy is this whole experience. It's not one day when this thing is a big deal and when you are like "This is what I did it for ". No, you are doing it for this moment. Interviewer: You built a personal brand. Interviewee: Yeah. Interviewer: Carvin - as we will see in the interview - has built a personal brand. I am building my personal brand. Do you think that even if people don't start their own business, that they should be thinking about their personal brand? [00:23:59] Interviewee: Yeah, definitely. I am in a position now where I am able to turn my brand into a legitimate business. So I have an accountant who says to me "Okay, your brand Carvin H. Goldstone, comedian, is an established brand. There is money coming into the brand". So you set up a business in the name of the brand. So my business set up is Carvin H. Goldstone. The money coming in or the income that comes into the brand is then now building up the brand's portfolio to do other things. So Carvin H. Goldstone, not me, the company, can at some point buy property. It can open a school. Interviewer: It could be a media company, maybe. [00:24:47] Interviewee: Yeah, it can open media, it can teach podcasts, it can do talks. Because the Carvin H. Goldstone brand that has been built - because it is not a company now - doesn't have to go through all the tedious processes of making its name known. It exists because it's quietly being built in the background for the last 10, 15 years. Now, all it has is a structure and a home to really expand. I plan to open a school of comedy and media. And I'll do it in the brand that has been built, not necessarily myself Carvin Goldstone being present all the time teaching and whatever. But the brand will be powerful enough to do the work. To do the work that I would have had to pay for if I started a new school, to open up a school of comedy. That is now rebuilding something from the ground, what is this? Who is Carvin Goldstone? So people have an idea, there are these clips that they can watch back, so they know what the product that I produce is about and they can expect it in this brand. Interviewer: So it's about leveraging all of this hard work in the past? Interviewee: Exactly, leveraging everything. Everything you are doing leverages for later on. But you have to be conscious to enjoy it while you are creating it. And that's the key. Interviewer: You were brought up in quite a religious background. And then you broke out of that, from what I see. Being in a religious setting can sometimes restrict you or limit your worldview or your outreach. So now that I am out of it, I feel like the world is a much bigger place. But there are obviously things that come with it, like family. So how do you deal with that? [00:26:43] Interviewee: I think growing up in Africa and growing up in African Christianity, we grew up Christian in Africa. We grew up with a very restrictive and legalistic form of the belief system. Christianity has its confines and its rules and laws. But in Africa, some of those things are exaggerated. So we grew up in communities where if you are Christian, you don't drink alcohol in any way or form. The legalistic framework kind of gives us a specific way of approaching and puts the God experience in a sort of box. And that box is everything to the people in it. So anything outside of their box is going to be offensive, it's going to be wrong. it's going to be demonized. And it's going to be seen as breaking down the comforting safe structure. Because that's what you are doing, when you challenge it. You are not just challenging, you are challenging the pillars on which people have built their homes. And when you pull those pillars away, the danger is that everything they have stood on and everything they have believed in collapses. That's why they fight it. That's why you fight it. Cognitive dissonance. The brain's inner ability to even take something that's logical and understand it, because it destroys your world. So your brain finds different ways to just prove it. Interviewer: You are so heavily invested in that thought. [00:28:14] Interviewee: Yeah. So I say "The sky is red". And you are like "No, actually it's blue". I'm like "No, it's red". And my brain convinces me that it's red, because the sky being blue is going to destroy this business that I've made, selling paintings where the sky is red. And this is impossible to now be blue. It messes up my whole world. But breaking out of that is very difficult if your society and the community you come from is very entrenched in it. So it takes a lot of courage to think differently. But I think, at the same time, sometimes you are just ahead of the curve, right? So new ideas and new thinking, it requires a few mavericks who step out of their comfort and think differently. The way we think now might be seen as evil or demonic or whatever. They demonize it. But in 10 or 15 or 20 years from now, you might find that we are not alone in our alternative thinking. Because we live in a generation where access to information is so much easier. So people will basically have access to alternative thought. You think of the reformation, people like John Calvin and Martin Luther, they were sort of the alternative thinkers of their time. Because they were questioning existing in a versatile church structure. Interviewer: They didn't get treated very well. [00:29:42] Interviewee: Yeah, they were ostracized, they were put aside, some of them were put to death, in those times. But if you think of the thought processes that they put forward back then, not all of them refined, but on the base, a lot of those thought processes found life way beyond their death. And the way of doing things was fundamentally changed for a large part of the population. Instead of everyone moving this way, and two guys moving that way, we now see a split where a lot of people are now protestant. Because those protestants, their thinking eventually found ground. So I think when it comes to thinking about how we think about God, I think the traditional Christian and especially in Africa, that way of thinking what God is in a very humble almost hand-out kind of way, that is going to be challenged by people being able to live a life where they have things. Christianity thrives in Africa, because poverty and disease thrive in Africa. So what do you do when people are poor and sick? You offer them hope. And religion is hope. And hope is always welcome in a time like that. In countries where maybe poverty is not such an issue and medicine is readily available for disease, you find less dependence on spiritual hope. Because the practical solution is right there, it's easy to take hold off. Interviewer: So there could be a paradigm coming? [00:31:13] Interviewee: Yeah. There is definitely going to be a shift. But I think it's going to depend on how Africa in particular - and maybe the third world - is able to come to grips with its core issues. Housing, water, sickness, poverty, hunger is a huge problem in Africa. What do you when someone's hungry and they have no option? What would you do? You pray, that's all you can do, because there is no other practical way of getting stuff. You live with last resorts, really. And a lot of people in religion find themselves at last resort situations. And so, they call on that. And look, it is comforting to at least think that there is a way out of this that is beyond your control. I think as human beings, in our darkest moment or in our trying times we want to know that there is a superior force that will bring us through this. That will take care of our needs. And the greater your need, the greater your basic need, like [00:32:19] hierarchy of needs, the base needs, the greater you are going to need your faith and your dependence. Because you need so much. Interviewer: This is what I am thinking at the moment, this is my world-view: Like you said, people reach out to a God that might help them at the time, which is like "It is my last hope". I think where we are being guided now, is to think that we can solve these things at a human practical level. So we should challenge what's going on in the banking system, in the world government systems, where it's causing poverty, it's causing inequalities. So we as human beings, the citizens of this world should get together and really make a movement that starts to eliminate poverty, starts to decrease wars, because of our actions on this Earth. So we can - in a sense - save ourselves. [00:33:22] Interviewee: Yeah. So the move toward a new humanistic approach to saving ourselves, as you point out, it comes from a disillusionment. This illusion with the state which has this unholy alliance with religion. So matter what first world country - the big ones, like the UK and America - if they get to the core of their religious relationship, it's with a Christian partner, so Donald Trump is quite big on Christian ethics. And he's got a good relationship with the Christian community of America. And the relationship between the Christianity and the government is very entrenched. In the UK, the queen is the head of the church, the Anglican church, which is directly connected, they can't be separated. State and religion and church cannot be separated in the big nations. And in the Muslim nations, this is the same thing. It cannot be separated, they are intertwined. But what is the result for the majority of people around the world? This alliance that they have has not brought relief to the people of the world. So what do you do? Do you keep supporting it? Do people keep quiet when they see governments that are intertwined with religious belief systems? Do they just let them continue? No, people are thinking "This is not working. If the world is the biggest government in the world and some of the wealthiest ones have this relationship and there is still so much poverty, then maybe this is not the answer". So I think people are thinking of other ways. Because if we think about the three big religions, or the ones that influence our way of thinking, our way of life the most, the Jew and Christian tradition, Islam being the third, they come from a similar sort of area, region of the world. The Middle-Eastern region, the Middle-Eastern religions and they offer exclusivity. So whether you are Muslim or Christian or Jew, you have exclusive access to a God through your faith in that belief system. Which is quite different to the Eastern or the Indian religions, Buddhism or Hinduism, which allow for a polarity of Gods and allow for different belief systems. These ones that are very exclusive, they spread the widest. Interviewer: Because they can control? [00:35:47] Interviewee: Because they are selling you almost admission to a club that you can't get in, unless you are a member. So you can't go to heaven unless you have faith in this particular thing. And that's got a lot of appeal. I am not sure what the rates of evangelism or Hinduism is, but I am pretty sure it's nothing near the rates of Christianity, because it's selling hope. But the countries where this is practiced the most, the relationship between government and religion, the benefit to the world is not tangible. Especially in Africa. You will find that people are as poor as ever. And if we look who colonized us, it were the nations who had this relationship. So what did they really bring? They brought religion and they brought slavery. So how do you reconcile their God with good, when the result has been bad? There has been a lot of disease and poverty. It's very difficult for people to reconcile that. At a thinking level, the more education you get, the more you begin to question "What was this all about, really?" Interviewer: Is it also maybe keeping them dumb, in a way? Interviewee: The power, I think it was Livingston who was quoted, who famously said, or in reference to Livingston... Interviewer: David Livingston. [00:37:13] Interviewee: He was a missionary and a colonialist and an explorer. It was "When they came to Africa, we had the land and they had the bible. Now we have the bible and they have the land". So the African story is one of exchange of the good. So Africa gave up a lot of national resources to visitors. Whether it was Jan van Riebeeck who came with the Dutch or the English, the British, the Portuguese, all the visitors ended up with a lot. And the people of Africa didn't end up with as much. In fact, until today a lot of them don't have any land or any possessions over time. What they do have, though, is their religion. Africa is deeply religious. Their love of Christianity and a lot of them are Anglicans and Catholics and Charismatics. And so, the hope is in this thing that they have over time really had to exchange their national wealth for. Interviewer: I think we need to break out of that. And I think, as humans, we need to fix the problem. Hopefully there is an enlightenment coming within Africa. Do you see that or do you still see that it can be hidden from them somehow by those who want to control? [00:38:35] Interviewee: This is the thing about breaking the chains of your oppressor, Africa is going to find itself a new master if they don't get to grips with themselves. Because the Chinese will not let Africa just pass by. Africa is rich with resources. They are basically offering to pay off debts of African countries, "Take a loan from us, we'll board your harbour. And then, if you can't pay back the fee, we'll own the harbour. Or you'll give us rights to fish off your coast". Chinese fishing nets are cleaning up the natural resources in the ocean, the sea creatures. Interviewer: So they could be aware of this? Interviewee: Yeah, that's actually happening at the moment, Africa now finds itself with a new sort of master that's on the doorstep. Interviewer: It's an alarm bell, really. [00:39:34] Interviewee: It's an alarm bell, and I'm not sure how Africa breaks out of it. Because if you look at the history of Africa, there was a time in Africa when Africa was powerful. There was a time when Africa was a trading point, places like Tanzania and Zanzibar were travel routes between the East and Africa. So trading between Arabia, trading between India. Those routes existed before colonials came. You saw places like Timbuktu and Kush where Africans established kingdoms and dynasties and Egyptians had lots of technology, mathematics and hieroglyphics. What would have happened to Africa if it wasn't colonized? Would Africa have eventually developed? I don't think so. I think technology development is a combined effort and we are all basically a combination of all the great ideas and thoughts. So today we have microphones and we are doing podcasts. Podcasts are a great idea. How many little pieces had to come together to design, before we got to podcasts? Microphones had to be designed, ideologies, psychology had to be thought out. Conversation had to be thought out, cabling, cameras. There are so many little pieces that eventually got us to this. So the podcast itself might be a creation of something awesome, but there are so many little bits and pieces that had to be created before we got to this point. So I think likewise for Africa to have thrived, it couldn't have stayed in isolation. What could have happened, though - I am not sure if you have ever been to Dubai - but whenever I go to the United Arab Emirates, I always think "This is possibly what Africa could have been". Because the United Arab Emirates, Dubai in particular, was like this little fishing village, where guys would dive, open clams, pick poles. That was the trade of the Emirate people. And then, in Abu Dhabi they discovered oil. Once they discovered oil, they realized that oil is a massive resource and this is going to make us very rich. But the structure they put in place was how they were going to take it out and stay in control of the wealth. Which is very different to the African story. For example, they got the British involved and a few other people to come help them get the oil out of the ground. So they can't get the oil out of the ground, they know who can. But they don't want them to completely own it. So they have these laws in place where if you open up a business in Dubai, you have to have an Emirate partner. And I don't know if it is still in place, that partner had to be the majority partner. So if you wanted to take any wealth, you made sure that you were also enriching a local person. Africa's story is completely different. If you ever go to Kimberley, the big hole where they found the Cullinan diamond, that sits in the crown, they found in Kimberley these masses of diamonds. And it was just like wild, wild west. It is almost like crypto-currency in a way. because everyone just goes and takes whatever they need and you trade it and you move. And people are building these digging areas and little rigorous [00:42:43] there and someone digs next to it and they get a little breach. And there were just holes everywhere. Until, I think it was the De Beer, he got the idea that no man can form a diamond company and we can control how the digging and all that is happening. But when all of that stuff came out of the ground, it went everywhere except to people. You went to Kimberley, right? It's a dead town, it's hard to believe. I think it's the second place to have street lights in the world, I think the first was Philadelphia or something. So Kimberley was ahead of its time, you had the Kimberley stock exchange. It had its own stock exchange, it was trading diamonds, trading gold before Johannesburg was a thing. It was a city ahead of the world in many ways. And it had this amazing resource of diamonds. It was discovered I think in a river. The story goes like this: There were kids playing in a river and they found a stone. They gave it to a traveller. So the kids were playing with it, the traveller said "I'll give you something for it". The man checked it out, they were diamonds. So they knew. And diamonds, they obviously were kicked out of the volcano at some point. So they formed out of a volcano and pushed out. So they were in the river that flowed down. So they knew there was something there and they were 100% correct. Now there is a massive hole. The hole represents the wealth of South African Kimberley. But none of that wealth exists for the people of Kimberley. That wealth has been exported to particularly Britain. I sometimes wonder if diamonds and gold had been discovered in a time like today, like how Dubai or Abu Dhabi was set up, that Africa would have been a better place. It just makes you wonder what type of world we would have lived in. Because if you go to the UAE, you find that foreigners or visitors and local people, there is a relationship they enjoy or they experience that is so different to Africa. They don't see foreigners as colonists, they see them as helpers. It's co-laborers in mining the wealth of Dubai. Whereas in Africa, the people see the colonists as oppressors. I don't know if that relationship will ever change, the way the African people view Europeans in particular, who came to the different countries, like the French, some parts of the Congo, the Belgians and obviously the British and the Dutch. The Portuguese in [00:45:24] and Angora. I don't know if there ever will be a time when African people will be able to hold hands with these people. Because for the most part, the African people until today are still poor while a lot of these great-grandchildren and grandchildren of the original arrivals are still wealthy. And that gap in South Africa is probably the worst, that gap between rich and poor. Interviewer: I think it's probably up to these countries now, in a way, to redistribute technology, wealth, knowledge into the entire world, so that we can all benefit. If Africa is stronger, the whole world is stronger. So I don't think there is any point in people and powers that be controlling this wealth and trying to control people. It is probably beneficial to them right now, but our future, as our planet, as our children and our grandchildren, we need to build a place that is equal all around the world. And we have to make this movement, we have to do that. [00:46:24] Interviewee: Well, the problem with that, Clint, political systems that exist... Socialism - which in a slight sense is what you are hinting at - is not popular in the Western world. The idea that the Westerners would somehow give up their resources to help the less, I don't think that is going to catch fire. I know America already has a problem with any form of socialism among their own people, their neighbours, people at the border, you read every day of how they don't want to offer healthcare to immigrants at the border. That is what you are suggesting, that's probably the closest that they can practice it, and they don't want to practice it. I'm not sure how the UK feels about moving from where it is now to a more socialistic approach to solving world peace. Democracy remains the preferred political system. Capitalism remains the preferred financial political system. And as long as those exist, it will always come down to who has more knowledge, who knows more, who has better connections. And those who don't, will fall back. Interviewer: Not that I am a socialist, I haven't really thought about this a lot, but I think that we are going to evolve a different type of political system. It may not even be a political system. But there is going to be a new way of... Not governing people, because I think that's the wrong word. A new way of living. [00:48:08] Interviewee: Well the idea of democracy was that people chose the government. Democracy was that the people shall vote and the people shall govern. But the problem with democracy is that you can't have democracy with an under-educated election. So if the people don't know the deal, what's going on, they shouldn't really be allowed to vote. That might sound like a very dictatorial thing to say, but if people don't know what is on offer and who stands for what, how can they make an informed decision on who should lead? And so, political parties prey on that, they prey on the ignorance of people. That's why you have these far right leaning and far left leaning parties and movements that keep rising up. The fact that Donald Trump is in power is a direct response to Barrack Obama being in power. So the left ruling for two terms, the right being so agitated, they don't really care necessarily what the policies are. They just feel like they are being isolated. And so the voting is along racial lines and it's along really personal lines about who I am as a person, what I look like. In South Africa, too. As opposed to "What are the policies the party is offering?" Interviewer: Well, it has been great talking to you, Carvin. I like this thought-pattern and I think that the more we talk about it, the more we start to think about it and hopefully, the more people listen, the more we think about it. I don't have the answers. No one has the answers right now. But as we collectively think, we might come up with something that is going to work, that is going to help. [00:49:52] Interviewee: As a political system - just to round it up - what I think should happen, in a country like mine like South Africa, we have the unfortunate legacy of apartheid and being freedom fighters. And then a government that needs to pay or thank freedom fighters for what they did. So there is a payment system that's paid through government, the government positions and head of departments and mayors and premiers. So these positions at this point in time are not necessarily going to the best people that could take a country like ours forward. There is a list of people that haven't received any benefits for fighting in the struggle and giving up their lives and losing partners. A lot of the older freedom movements like the ANC, there is a big struggle of how the party moves forward. Because when they elect people like Jacob Zuma to the presidency, any thinking person in and outside the ANC will ask themselves "Was this really the best foot forward? When they looked through all of the ranks of the party, with a legacy of people like [00:51:11] and Walter Sisulu, Nelson Mandela, then Jacob Zuma? This is our best step forward?" And I don't think that necessarily is the best step forward or anyone else that comes afterwards. I think we are just in this awkward age of still having to pay people who help fight for freedom. My wish is, once we get through this tricky period, that we start appointing some ideals governments. The best doctor in the country is the minister of health. And the most decorated police man, active working, is the minister of police. And likewise, the most decorated judge is the minister of justice. So I think a very professional [00:52:02] EO private type approach to government is the only way we are going to fix our political system. Because I think in that case, we will at least get a lot of experience, firstly, in those fields. And logical thinking towards the best systems. I think as long as it's politicized and the people put into these positions are actually politicians and not professionals in those industries, we are going to keep running around in circles. So my ideal political system in South Africa - and I suppose in most parts of the world - would involve the best available person in that field being the minister of that. So I will give you a small example of a little political situation. There are ten of us and we are friends and you are good at making music, I am good at telling jokes and Pete is good at break-dancing. You are not going to ask me to be the break-dancer. In our little political group, it's going to be him, he should be the minister of break-dancing, because he is the best break-dancer and that makes the most sense. So that's a microcosm. On the grand scale, if we could get that sort of thinking into our political system, the best results for us to get the best police results is to have the best police man. Kind of conducting, because all the experience and the know-how is what's going to give us an advantage. Because knowledge is power and it gives an advantage. That's why you have knowledgeable people in high positions. Because the knowledge and that experience just makes us more dynamic, more sharp, makes us think better on our feet. And we don't have that. Interviewer: Carvin H. Goldstone, comedian, friend, thanks for being on LifeShot Podcast. [00:53:52] Interviewee: Thank you, it has been fun. Interviewer: And I wish you all the best for the rest of your trip in the UK. And if people want to see more about you, where do they go? Interviewee: I have a website, it's carvingoldstone.com. And you can find everything you need there. Interviewer: Great. Thank you very much. Interviewee: Thanks.
In the first episode of The Almost Perfect Podcast I get to know Durban's comedy godfather, Carvin Goldstone. We dig into the early days of his comedy career, we discuss the pressures of his role in comedy, we learn a bit about his rap and journalism careers, and we find out what he gets from his parents. We also chat about his Comic's Choice Award wins this weekend and why he's not accepting them. I'm stoked this is the first episode of this podcast, Carvin is one of my favourite people and we'll definitely be doing this again down the road. https://almostperfect.co.za/ep-1-carvin-goldstone/
So I had a chat with Carvin Goldstone in this episode. Carvin Goldstone shared about the history of South Africa. He shared about the different trends of standup comedy over the years. He talked about the different styles of comedy that people adopt all over the world, how to get your audience. He shares the time that he did a show that is in a different language and the different kinds of laughters in different countries. Not Again Podcast Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/notagainpodcast/ Not Again Podcast website: https://www.notagainpodcast.com Not Again Podcast iTunes Page: https://itunes.apple.com/sg/podcast/not-again-podcast/id1243363815?mt=2 Not Again Podcast Spotify page: https://open.spotify.com/show/2BqPbSFxoZn59pT8XM7Lbo?si=phHDtLakT8aelgPIIL8wsg Not Again Podcast Stitcher Page: https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/not-again-podcast Not Again Podcast Patreon Page: https://www.patreon.com/notagainpodcast