Why Intent and Design Is Important in Digital PR with Gisele Navarro - E.p. 234
Search Engine Journal Show
Why Intent & Design Is Important in Digital PR Our host Loren Baker sat down with the CEO of NeoMam Studios, Gisele Navarro, to talk about the importance of design and intent in Digital PR. Early in here career, Gisele started exploring formats of linkable content and testing content that was outside the norm. That’s when she realized there was a need for creative content in SEO and link building strategies. In this episode, Giselle shares her creative process for building a successful link building campaign utilizing design and ways to bridge the gap between SEO and PR.
The One Where We Discuss Managing Remote Teams With Gisele Navarro
This week we speak to Gisele Navarro, CEO at Content Marketing Agency NeoMam, about working remotely and managing remote teams.Where to find Gisele:Website: https://neomam.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/giselenavarro/Twitter: https://twitter.com/ichbinGisele---Episode SponsorMassive shout out to NOVOS for sponsoring the full second season of WTSPodcast.NOVOS, the London-based eCommerce SEO agency, has won multiple awards for their SEO campaigns including Best Global SEO Agency of The Year 2 years running. Trusted by over 150 global eCommerce brands including the likes of Bloom & Wild, Patch and Thread, NOVOS provides technical eCommerce SEO expertise with a creative edge by specialising across platforms like Shopify & Magento. They have been named as one of 2021's best workplaces in the UK and with a diverse, gender-balanced team are a culture-first agency.Where to find Novos:Website - https://thisisnovos.com/LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/thisisnovosTwitter - https://twitter.com/thisisnovosInstagram - https://www.instagram.com/thisisnovos/---Episode Transcript:Sarah: Hello and a very warm welcome to the Women in Tech SEO podcast. I’m Sarah McDowell, SEO Content Executive at Holland and Barrett., content executive at Holland and Barrett and I will be your host for today. We have Gisele Navarro joining us today to talk about remote work in a subject that I think we can all relate to right now. Gisele is the CEO of NeoMam, a creative studio on a mission to produce content that people want to share with a background in link building and leading a fully remote and multi-cultural team of specialists from her home in Derbyshire.Gisele, a very warm welcome to the show.Gisele: Thank you for having me, Sarah. I'm happy to be here.---This season is sponsored by NOVOS. NOVOS, the London-based eCommerce SEO agency, has won multiple awards for their SEO campaigns including Best Global SEO Agency of The Year 2 years running. Trusted by over 150 global eCommerce brands including the likes of Bloom & Wild, Patch and Thread, NOVOS provides technical eCommerce SEO expertise with a creative edge by specialising across platforms like Shopify & Magento. They have been named as one of 2021's best workplaces in the UK and with a diverse, gender-balanced team are a culture-first agency. Check them out on thisisnovos.com or follow on Linkedin @thisisnovos---Sarah: Thank you very much for agreeing to spend your afternoon with me. How are we doing? How's your Wednesday been?Gisele: I mean, it's almost coming to an end now. So the future looks bright.It's been good. I've been quite busy this week, so I'm a bit more tired than you should. But I hope I can tell you where I go on the podcast. And yeah, it's been, it's been good. How was your Wednesday?Sarah: I mean, I've no meaning to brag, but I have had today off. So I'm feeling quite Zen. Like I fell asleep earlier, listening to a podcast in the sunshine. So that's the kind of day that I've had.Sarah: Can you give our wonderful listeners a brief overview of yourself, what you do and how you got into this world of SEO?Gisele: Yes. So I lead the team at NeoMam. So basically my day today, it's just working with everybody who helped us in the creation and the promotion of the content that we make for our clients.And so my background is in link-building. So I started in SEO back in 2009. And I think by 2000, and by the end of 2010, it was quite clear to me that link-building was my thing, and I really liked it. So I ended up being a CEO because I used to work in sales and I was actually quite depressed and I felt that I needed to change something.I was too young to feel the way I was feeling. I felt at the time. So I just quit my job and went online to see what I could do from home. And I've, I've always had a blog since I was a kid, so I kind of knew things or the CEO. So I did put myself out there as a freelancer. And I started, you know, getting paid, I don't know, 50 cents an hour too.To write meta descriptions and things like that. And over time, I started getting closer and closer to some agencies and just the rest is history radio. From there. I kind of got into SEO seriously, not just because it was the one thing I could do from home, but also because I really found it interesting and challenging.And in terms of Neo mom, I joined the umum seven years ago as the head of outreach. And I just grew from there to lead the operations. And now as the CEO of the company. So no pressure for me now, but it's, it's been a, it's been a ride. One that I enjoy, which is the important thing, I guess. Sarah: Thank you for sharing that story and for being very honest there. I would like to move on to a quick quick fire round of questions.[Quick Fire Questions]Sarah: So first things first, what would you say empowers you to be the brilliant woman you are today?Gisele: That's a good question to me. It has to be just looking half, like how far I've come and just seeing every time I look back. I feel stronger for the fixes I've made to overcome the things that I've learned.You know, the people that I got to work with, everybody I've met in my life, the decisions I've made that would go there were way bad. I think all of that, I don't let the past or mistakes I've made become a place I don't want to go to in my mind. Like to use that as a reason to, you know, to keep going and to feel strong. Sarah: What one bit of advice would you give women starting out in the industry.Gisele: Don’t burn yourself out. Don't just feel like you have to. Whether you are just starting or because you're a woman. Because I think we don't make that mistake sometimes when we're new at something that we just want to give it all out.And sometimes actually taking a step back and resting is. Equally as important for you to learn your brain needs it. So, you know, I know that you're super eager to learn and to just get into it. And, but give yourself time to rest. Sarah: Then before delving into today's topic about working remotely and managing remote teams you've been CEO of Neo mom for nearly a year now.Firstly, congrats for getting that role. That's amazing. So I mean, There's so many questions I could ask you here. But I think I'm going to keep it quite simple and go with what it's been like taking over leadership of the agency from the founder. So how have you found CEO life?Gisele: I guess I thought at the beginning that it would be one thing and now I can say it's another. So I guess it was a little bit of a ride, but particularly because it all happened during, you know, the whole pandemic situation. So I think I have a plan set for the next 10 years for the agency and the things that we would do and suddenly became quite clear now. I needed to be in the moment more and not so much in the future.So being more aware of the team of how they were, how they were handling the situation. In their, in their countries, you know, everybody is leaving something quite different because everybody has different lockdowns, they're all in different countries. So being that to support the team I think I knew I was going to have to do that, but I didn't feel that I didn't really think it was going to be such an important part of the role.And it became. No, the key of my role is just coming calls with my team and being there with them. Hmm. And so, and that was also quite different from the way in which the founder, oh, their previous CEO used to run the company. Maybe because I, I don't know how they can do more than fish, maybe. I don't know.But I really got very close with everybody. And Every decision I made throughout the year of new things, we were going to try or decide to say no to business or I don't know, to let go of clients or anything that I didn't see really came from. Responding to what I felt the team needed. And I think that really shifted what I thought, you know, as a CEO, you're going to be setting the pace and everyone is going to be following you and all that.And then I think there is a lot of that. Definitely, but there is also. A lot of looking into, you know, the dynamics of everybody, how are they working? What do they need? And what's working well for people. How can we get more of that? What is not working? How can we fix that? How can we get rid of that? And those big pictures.Team decisions, I think, because everybody's doing their work, they today, they can't make those decisions. Sometimes they can't even see the problems because they're inside of them. So I'm just there to try to help them see.Sarah: So it's like a bird's eye view. Is that what you're sort of talking about that like, cause you know, cause I get that because when you're like stuck in your, in something, because you're so involved and engaged I suppose it's hard to take a step back and like yeah. Look at it more holistically.Gisele: Yes, that's right. And I think I've been trying as well to create some spaces for people to have time to fake whether it is that it is five minutes before a meeting with me when I send them some questions about, okay. How to think about, you know, what is something that you're working on?That you're not enjoying right now. You know, what is it that, every time it comes to you, you're happy about, and suddenly they are. I think helping everybody rethink the way that they look at their work and they can see how powerful that is as a business. So I didn't think I was going to end up doing that.You know, I took the role. So, but it's been great. And I think it did change a lot of my perception of, of what I would fit in.Sarah: So I decided to reach out. And I asked the following questions. On Twitter, I asked the question: when we returned to the new normal, what would you prefer out of the following work from home returns?And blended a bit of both. Now my research is based, cause it's always good to sort of what's the word light to substantiate your research and your data, 130 votes. I didn't think it was that bad on a Friday evening. Do you know what IGisele: Like solid. I wasn't expecting so many actually, right. When I woke up on Saturday, I was like, wow, that's really Wednesday.Sarah: So, I mean, I'll share the results. So 46.9% said work from home. 4.6% said returned to the office and 48.5% said blended. So a bit of both there. So I mean, are you surprised by any of those sorts of stats or is that something that you would have sort of expected to.Gisele: Yeah, I think I would have I think, I mean, obviously since the beginning of the pandemic, people have been arguing, whether what's better, right? Like now, now that you got remote, you see how good the office is or the other way around. Right. And I can imagine that if you had been working in an office for a long time, and then from one day to the next, you had to start working from home and the process.That you were working in, was not ready for it. If there were no systems in place, if you know this, the board wasn't there because leadership also didn't know how to handle the situation. And they would also perhaps focus on other things. It wasn't the word just how you did your job, but also how to keep afloat as a business or whatever.I imagine working from home for a lot of people. Horrible. So I wasn't, I guess when I, so 5% of people say, I want to go back to the office, I was like, yeah, I get it. Like I get it that you would want to, because I imagine it's not being great. And at the same time, I think there's a lot of emphasis right now about hybrid, about hybrid workplace.I particularly know that, you know, the look that was kind of lifted kind of people actually want it to be, so show them one thing too. To not be just at home working, but at the same time do want to be at home working. So I I, yeah, I saw the results and I thought, yeah, this makes absolute sense.Do I agree with a hybrid workplace?I guess it depends. There's a lot of things I think have to be considered.Sarah: That’s so interesting because personally, I think that, because I obviously got involved in the poll and I selected a blended bit of both because there's times where I like working from home. Because I've seen, it gives you flexibility also.I feel like I'm the most productive as well, but then so there's been like a couple of times where I've been back into the office. And yeah, like, and I've enjoyed that because it's something like, yes, you put productivity probably isn't as high because you've got all the conversations going on around you.And like, it's hard to keep concentration and stuff, but at the same time I get why some people like to be in the office and be surrounded by people. So, yeah, I get, but then I also knew that not everyone works the same. And I always say, like, I wasn't surprised that there was a wow. The results were pretty much the same for work from home and blended a bit of both.Isn't it? Like no one wants to go back to the office full time. Did they?Gisele: Nobody wants to go to the Yankees full time. That's basically the headline of this, of these fall. But I think to myself, the reason why I say hybrid. I think as a leader or a manager or a business owner, there has to be clarity around when and why we are going to be in an office or at home?So these ideas are like, oh, the office is that you come, if you want to, and if you don't want to, you don't come. I think in the long-term could be problematic because either there will be a situation where. There's people who always come to the office and there are people who never come to the office and it becomes a, you know, you could have communication breakdowns, you can have you know, different processes that are naturally born.So if you are already in the office, you, the things in a way, but then if you aren't at home, you know, you find a way around the fact that perhaps this information is nowhere for you to see because people talk about it in your office, but you are at home. And at the same time, I think there is a potential of having, you know, an ask versus them situation from a group dynamic perspective.So I think it's quite important that it's, that there, the teams are involved in the decisions as to, like you were saying, okay, when they see it, that you feel more productive at home, what type of tasks do you like doing that? How, how can we plan it so that. You get to do those things at home, that you feel better at, and what type of, for, what do you like to be at the office?Is it a specific meeting that you'd like to have at the office? Is it specific, you know, tasks that you work on that it's better for you to be in an office because X Y set, because you don't want to be at home because you need materials that you have here because whatever. But I think it's important that instead of putting it on there, employees decide what they want to do.That is actually the organization that thinks about it. And that builds a system that allows for people to be in and out of the office and still connected the same way and still collaborating. Yeah. In the, in the same, in the same way, not creating different dynamics of, okay, if you are from home, you know, you're going to miss out on certain things.Or if you're at the office, you know, you don't have to do these extra steps anyway, because you're at the office now, even though perhaps there's somebody from home that will need you to do those extra steps, because it will have no visibility. If you don't do that, you know, So I think that's something that has to be thought aboutSarah: When we're talking about managing remote teams, how do you build trust in culture?Gisele: Yeah, so I guess, I mean, it will depend on the company, right? So what the culture is for that one specific company, obviously, obviously, if you, as a leader, if you don't set the tone for your culture, then. Be born regardless. So if you say, oh, we have no picture. That's just silly. It's like, well, your team alone working together because that's what we do as people when we're in groups.So suddenly we will have all social norms and, you know, the things that we all agree with and the things that we don't agree with. So as a leader, you're not setting the tone for that. Your team will. And then, so then you will have a culture that you might not like in your own company. So. What happens when you're working remotely?Is that if up to this point, your culture was, oh, we have fun. You know, we are, we are social and we, oh, culture is the team activities. We do, you know, we go to the bar on a Friday or we have drinks or. Seventy-one of those things are gone and, and you might feel like you're, it's hard to be a culture. The reality is that those things are not culture.Those things are activities. And perhaps that they had their lining thing that connects all of you is not the fact that on a Friday you will have a drink, you know, and it, I think it takes a little bit more thinking. When you don't have the physical office for you to decide, okay, who, who are we as a team?Who are we, you know, who are we as a company? What are the things that we have in common ? For the good or the bad, you know, they connect us. What are the values that we all share? And when you are, when you're working remotely, if, if your values are clear and if your, you know, your processes that you have built.And then communications, the way we should communicate, if those, all of those things, can become tools for you to strengthen your values on a regular basis. So, you know, just to give you an example, our number one value is to be open and honest, and we are already open and honest. So we are as a team, you know, in our content, in our blog posts.And the conversations that we have in the industry like me right now with you, I'm just, I'm telling you what comes directly from my brain without filtering to make it look nicer and be like that. And I think as a team, we put things in place. So for example, every Friday we all receive as. Pull where we are asked to rate the week from one to five, one being I hate today, then five being.I love that. And then just sharing, you know, something that we really enjoyed and something that we found challenging. That is a key tool for our open and honest value. Yes. Because everybody, I think the first time that you actually go in and you put on that and you say something challenging, that was really terrible.And somebody else from the team gets in touch and says, Hey, I read about these. How are you? How can I help or whatever you realize that actually being open and honest it's okay. It's good. Right. It's rewarding. It builds trust. And so it is a very specific case because it's just, you know, it's just a value that allows us to build trust.But it's a little step that we took along the way. Make it, so these values are...
Gisele Navarro – Creating content people want to share
Discover how NeoMam’s vision and values transformed the content they create. Learn how they try to destroy their ideas, how to add a little extra to your content, and how to avoid the campaign sausage machine.Gisele Navarro is the CEO of NeoMam Studios, the agency where she was formerly Head of Outreach and Director of Operations. Gisele gets involved in almost every aspect of creative campaigns, and has had a lot of success doing so.You can find Gisele at twitter.com/ichbinGiseleYou can find extensive show notes (including links, visuals and additional context to the conversation) over at contenthubble.com/podcastIf you want to learn how to come up with better content ideas, there are lots of resources on Content hubble to help you do just that - contenthubble.com
🇬🇧How to create link worthy content with Gisele Navarro (CEO NeoMam Studios) | Ep.32
👋In this episode I am speaking to the amazing 💥Gisele Navarro who is the CEO of NeoMam Studios, a creative agency that is creating content with the purpose of attracting Links & Shares. She is also a contributor to the Search Engine Land, Mum, Bass player and a Rockstar Link Builder.👉How is NeoMam approaching a project?👉What does content need to be link worthy?👉How to seed the content to websites successfully?👉How to measure success?👉and much more.
A Process For Efficient and Humane Link Building Outreach with Gisele Navarro
Agency Ahead by Traject
Gisele Navarro is the Operations Director at NeoMam Studios. She's also a link building expert with ten years of experience under her belt. She began as a blogger with a background in sales and customer service, who then later morphed into freelance SEO work. She discovered she's a very technical person, but also learned how to put some of the prospecting skills she'd learned in her previous careers to good use. If link building and outreach is something you or your agency struggles with, you will want to catch today's podcast. It's full of practical advice you can start literally using today, even if you've never been very successful with link building and outreach in the past.The highlights: (0:44) What's changed in link building, and what's stayed the same. (4:56) Prospecting your way to a productive link list. (10:32) How to avoid spending too much time on prospecting. (15:42) A good approach for writing link building email pitch subject lines. (22:44) Pitching through social. (27:54) Gisele's causes. The insights:What's changed in link building, and what's stayed the same?Gisele notes that the names keep changing. "We're link builders, then we were inbound marketers, then we were content marketers – but we're all link builders."She says that much really hasn't changed though. "The process is the same. You're using the same stuff. I guess the tactics are different and the mindset is different in what is valuable or what is seen as valuable." She says many of the tactics that her clients didn't like in the past are now commonplace though. "Back then I said 'why don't we just do a piece of content' and they'd say, no just do social bookmarking, get me 100 links!" Prospecting your way to a productive link listGisele recently wrote a blog post called: How to Find Sites that Will Want to Link to Your Content. Garrett asked her to expand on her prospecting and pitching efforts since it's something many link builders find tedious and difficult to do.Yet Gisele loves it!"It's the favorite part of the process for me. I enjoy the detective work." She of course has heard many people tell her that prospecting is the worst. "It was the part of the process they wanted to get rid of." There are certainly plenty of automation tools out there that can help with automation, but Gisele cautions against relying on them. "I disagree [with using them] because I think that if I were to send you an email about something that has to do with the tools that you guys create, and I pitch you even if my pitch is not the best, if I'm actually talking to you about something you guys care about, and I pitch you, even if my pitch is not the best if I'm actually talking to you about something that has to do with something you care about. Then I'm going to be more likely to make a connection."She says that taking the time to make a connection means you can even get away with not having an amazing pitch or piece on the topic. "If I manage to find out the topic is going to be valuable to you and I spend the time finding the right person to address the chances of getting a link is way higher than if I just shotgun outreach a hundred people that work in your company in the hopes of them telling to."She does like using Hunter.io, to find email addresses. She doesn't even like using expensive contact databases to find sources. "They are incredibly expensive and hurt me too much in the pocket to even try! But once you get the format of one email address at the newspaper you basically have them all. There's no reason for me to pay."She also uses a tool called Verify Email. This tool verifies the email isn't going to bounce so she can do outreach without wasting her time.She even spends a lot of time trying to match the person to the content type. "If it's a person that writes super lengthy opinion pieces with no visuals and I'm pitching an infographic, that's maybe not right for them."How to Avoid Spending Too Much Time on ProspectingDaunted because this sounds like a time-consuming process and you've already got a million things to do? Gisele had answers for that as well. "My list is alive for as long as that campaign is alive, so I don't just go and spend a full week building a list, then launch it and forget about it. Up to a point, all the information you have is your intuition as to whether that person would be interested, just based on what they've written about or who they are, but only when you start sending out those emails do you actually have any real information data as to what is actually working."She says she'll spend a full day building the initial list or break it out into two mornings, and that she likes to build a list of 70 to 100 people at first. "Then I do my first launch, looking at open rates, reply rates, the replies she actually got, the links that went live, and starts figuring out what is and what isn't working."She uses that information to add some more sites.She also says she studies the sites themselves to see what other sites link to it or are involved with it. "Are there more sites about this topic? Would they like this content as well?"Eventually, she ends up with a list of 300 or 400 contacts. "And it didn't feel like a trap. It didn't feel like you put 3 weeks into it before knowing anything. You built a list with a purpose."She says she also has a rule for herself. "Try not to spend more than 5 minutes finding a specific contact." She says without that rule it would be easy to spend 30 minutes hunting around for an email, which would feel unproductive and disheartening.A good approach for writing link building email pitch subject linesGisele warns against using formulaic email subject lines. "Formulas can work, but [it can cause] your email to get ignored. You need to stand out."She has one rule: "I like my subject line to be transparent, to the point where if they open it, they're kind of already telling me they're interested. They're a little bit committed to it so that when they start reading the pitch they're looking forward to it being what they hoped it was going to be."She says to achieve this, she tries to include certain things. "If it's new data we've gathered, or if it's a study we've done, or a report, a map, a photo, I like to include that [in the subject line]."She does hyper-target her subject lines. For example, she did a project featuring the female founders in every country who raised the most money for their businesses. A Chinese female founder was named the top in the world. "So I want to pitch that to journalists who cover Chinese business news for US sites. I want to make a big point of this person, this Chinese female founder named top in the world in this new study." She also pays attention to how media sites and bloggers typically write headlines, or spend some time finding out how the sites talk about her topics."Some sites don't talk about female founders. They call them women. They say women founders. So for this site, I'm going to use 'woman founders' in the subject line."She urges link builders to look for little details like that to incorporate into subject lines. "When [sites] are getting hundreds of emails and they're all sort of the same, and then suddenly one of them is speaking their language, talking about things in the way they normally talk about it, it stands out." She even uses the headlines from sites that do run her links in the follow-up subject lines to other sites. "An editor wrote it and approved it, obviously there's something good there!" Pitching through social media channelsCan't find an email address? Gisele says there's absolutely nothing wrong with using social media to get the ball rolling."I personally use LinkedIn a lot because it's a safe professional space. Particularly when I'm trying to find a contact who runs a business blog for a company. It's going to be a content manager or it's going to be a digital marketing manager, maybe the blog sits in a domain that's not the main domain of the company so finding that email address is a pain. So I pitch on LinkedIn."She pays for Premium so she can send messages. Sometimes reaching out to LinkedIn leads to following up on email.She's even reached out on Twitter. "Just message them and say: Hey, I tried my best, I just can't find where to contact you, would it be possible for me to send you a DM? Sometimes they follow you so you can send them something, or they send their email through the DM."She advises against giving a full-on pitch on Twitter. "It's kind of uncomfortable." What’s your right now cause?Gisele says she lives in a small community and has been doing a lot of mutual aid things with her neighbors. "There's no charity, we just help each other, particularly with COVID." They've got a WhatsApp group going and they use that to help each other meet their needs. "My dad says, you can't change the world, but you can change that little slab where you're standing. And if all of us just try with that little slab of concrete wherever we're standing, suddenly when you look around the world has changed."She says you can do this with your neighborhood or with a building. "Try to connect. Try to get to know the people you live surrounded by. See how you can help them."Connect with Gisele NavarroWant to get in touch with Gisele? Website: NeoMam Studios Twitter LinkedIn
105: Proven Rules For Outreach & Link Building Success w/Gisele Navarro
Experts On The Wire (An SEO Podcast!)
Gisele is Operations Director at NeoMam (who has helped companies like HomeAdvisor, Angie’s List and Expedia with content and link campaigns). In this episode: How Gisele landed six features from just fifteen emails Why link building is NOT just the same as “digital PR” Getting big-name sites to link to you (with a different approach […] The post 105: Proven Rules For Outreach & Link Building Success w/Gisele Navarro appeared first on Evolving SEO.
The Agents of Change: SEO, Social Media, and Mobile Marketing for Small Business
The importance of building high quality links has never been greater. But you can’t fool Google…grabbing any and all links will not boost you in the search rankings. You need to prove to Google that you’ve earned the spot by seeking out the ones from more authoritative and trusting sources. And when you research and contact these trusted sites, you need to take care with how you pitch them. Sending out a generic copy in a pasted email to a hundred people is only going to ensure your request hits the spam box or the trash. Instead, make sure you’re creating a pitch through thoughtful outreach. Include a subject line that compels people to open your email - that shows you’ve done your research and that this impacts their business directly. https://www.theagentsofchange.com/261