The results of the U.S. presidential election suggest that there will be a significant transformation in the way the nation is governed, even though the political divide in government will continue. This should have significant repercussions for education. Mike Goldstein, a distinguished higher education consultant and attorney, offers his insights on how the presidential election will alter the course of higher education.

Changing Directions

President-elect Joe Biden’s plan for higher education promises to strengthen college as a reliable path to the middle class. While Republicans and Democrats will probably agree with this in general principle, they may differ on what is intended and how to go about accomplishing this lofty goal.

There are two components of this: one where agreement may be found, and one where there will be disagreement. The first is the general acceptance that education—and especially higher education--has to be faster, better and less expensive. However, the second, that higher education needs to be more accessible to people of color, first-generation college students, and those from lower-income backgrounds, although less than generally accepted, is becoming more and more recognized as important. To do so means more than reducing the cost of education; it means doing more not just to admit these students, but to help them get their education and earn the credential that will lead to a better life.

The credential / degree also has to be meaningful for employers. This will not only cause changes to higher education programs, but also require alterations to counseling, admissions, and tutoring to help students through the program. Additionally, the traditional disconnect continues between what is taught in higher education and what is needed in the workforce by employers.

Faculty overwhelmingly believe they are preparing students for the workforce. However, only about 40% of employers believe that students are prepared for jobs when they graduate. That disconnect has been in existence for a while. Stakeholders are beginning to realize that this gap was created because higher education and the business community were not communicating about what is needed, how to make what is needed become part of the curriculum, and the role that business should play in working with higher education to ensure that students are ready and successful in the workforce. The incoming administration plans to address these issues through providing paid internships, degree-related on-the-job training, pathways, and sequences of courses that support specific areas of study.

Talent Supply Chain

One could argue that a course should be a set of stackable credentials while a degree should be a pile of stackable credentials that add up to the set of competencies that also equate a degree of some sort. The degree is actually the aggregation of a set of marketable competencies. This was the premise behind Western Governors’ University.

That’s where we are now heading. In the Biden Administration, expect to see the leaders in the Department of Education, the Department of Commerce and the Department of Labor working in conjunction with one another to develop these kinds of programs.

There needs to be a consensus about what higher education is trying to do – both its purpose and how it gets accomplished. This includes accessibility, affordability, improving student aid programs, and reducing debt burden on all students, and a recognition that today’s student isn’t the same as it has been in the past. Another critical problem is that at the current cost, the debt burden that hits middle class students. The president-elect’s plan for higher education probably will address this issue.

Expanding Access

President-elect Biden’s platform has several components to expand access. This includes making enrollment in community colleges or similar training organizations debt-free. This would include reduced tuition along with state and/or federal grants. The president-elect’s proposal calls for 75% federal funding, which will depend on receiving Congressional support. The premise of free two-year education to get an associate’s degree is important for the country’s future.

He also places a high priority on supporting minority-serving institutions that serve Blacks, Hispanics and Native Americans. HBCUs are important institutions because they provide an exceptional service, and students get a high-quality education in an extremely supportive environment. These institutions also influence other minority-serving institutions.

Many state and city colleges were founded on the basis of providing access to education to everyone, including the City of New York institutions which were founded and gave free tuition to students. We’ve lost that for reasons that were not in control of the educators, but now there is a movement to return to the notion that education for all beyond high school should be affordable.

Additionally, it’s important that people who enroll in college be able to complete their education. The average student is no longer 18; now the average student is an adult who has responsibilities for children, aging parents and work. This requires counseling, childcare and other types of support, all of which requires additional funding.

Title IX Changes

Many changes to Title IX are projected to be rolled back. The Trump Administration got it partly right on Title IX because there was an imbalance in protections. Institutions lacked appropriate guidance on how to deal with abuse and discrimination.

The problem was that the Department of Education flipped it in the opposite direction. There is a balance to be struck—one has to protect the rights of individuals who suffer from sexual misconduct, abuse or discrimination while also ensuring that the process is fair. Institutions are currently badly equipped in having the necessary human resources to support the process.

The incoming administration will focus on coming up with a balanced system that gives institutions the tools to properly administrator the law and these programs. The regulations are designed to flesh out what is a legal obligation. This administration will be much more sensitive to ensuring the protection of the person who has suffered while also ensuring that the process is fair and expeditious.

Jurisdiction is still questionable. There is a limit as to how much authority an institution should exercise over its population. The question that needs to be asked is what the responsibility would be for an employer whose employee engages in this type of conduct outside of the workplace. This should be handled in a similar manner in a university. If a student who engages in misconduct off campus, this should be a civil issue. If the misconduct is morally repugnant, the institution should be in its rights to dismiss the student. However, institutions should not be held responsible for every student all times. If students are off campus and not under responsibility of the institution when they engage in bad conduct, the enforcement becomes a slippery slope.

Predatory For-Profit Institutions

It is anticipated that the Biden Administration will be more active in pursuing predatory for-profit colleges. The critical word is “predatory”; any institution that acts inappropriately, misrepresents what it is doing, or fails to properly safeguard the use of federal funds or provide the educational service it promises should suffer the consequences.

Unfortunately, the posterchild for this type of conduct has been for-profit institutions, and nearly all of the worst offenders are no longer with us. For the most part, for-profit colleges play an important role in training students in areas such as cosmetology, welding, etc., and there is a place for those in higher education.

The emphasis should be that every institution, including for-profit colleges, behave properly and work within the rules. Where they do not, students should be protected from harm. If a school suddenly folds, the students should have recourse. The rules should be applied evenly and enforced in relation to recruitment, finances, etc. When they do not, the government should ensure that students can take appropriate action. However, the Trump Administration walked away from enforcement.

Additional Financial Areas

The 90/10 rule (at least 10% of tuition needs to be derived from non-federal student aid sources) has many proposals currently being brought forward. This rule is indicative of the socio-economic class of students being served; however, it may not be a good indicator to use to determine the quality of education.

A critical issue will be CARES Act 3. There currently needs to be a large infusion of funds awarded to the states and higher education institutions. This funding is needed to sustain these institutions through the transition from the Trump Administration to the Biden Administration, which may stretch out for a year. A number of private colleges were in a weakened state going into the pandemic and now they are teetering on the brink. The federal government needs to protect these institutions, which otherwise would cause great disruption to higher education.

Three Recommendations for Higher Education Leaders and Boards

Goldstein suggested several takeaways for higher education leaders and boards:

• Think faster, better and cheaper. How can you improve the quality of education and the way it’s delivered? Also, find a way to reduce the cost of education while providing other sources of support.
• Make the system fairer and more accessible. Education needs to meet the needs of a changing population of students and need to figure out ways to help these various students, whether they are coalminers or immigrants.
• We need to go back to the idea that seeking higher education is a public good.

Bullet Points

• The presidential election will change the course of higher education policy.
• Higher education needs to transform to be faster, better and less expensive.
• There needs to be increasing acceptance that higher education needs to be more accessible to people of color, first-generation college students, and those from lower-income backgrounds.
• Higher education credentials need to be meaningful for employers. To make this happen will changes to higher education programs, but also require alterations to counseling, admissions, and tutoring to help students as they make their way through the program.
• A course should be a set of micro-credentials while a degree should be a pile of stackable certificates that add up to the set of competencies that also equate a degree of some sort. The degree is actually the aggregation of a set of marketable competencies / credentials.
• There needs to be a consensus of what higher education is trying to do. This includes accessibility, affordability, improving student aid programs, and reducing debt burden on all students.
• The president-elect’s platform includes making enrollment in community colleges or similar training organizations debt-free. This would include reduced tuition along with state and/or federal grants.
• The incoming administration also places a high priority on supporting minority-serving institutions that serve Blacks, Hispanics and Native Americans.
• It’s important that people who enroll in college be able to complete their education. The average student is no longer 18-24; now the average student is an adult who has responsibilities for children, aging parents and work. They need different types of support to help them earn a degree.
• The incoming administration will focus on developing a balanced system that gives institutions the tools to properly administrator Title IX. This administration also will be much more sensitive to ensuring the protection of the person who has suffered while also ensuring that the process is fair and expeditious.
• It is anticipated that the Biden Administration will be more active in pursuing predatory colleges and universities that act inappropriately, misrepresent what they are doing, or fail to properly safeguard the use of federal funds or provide the educational service promised.
• A critical issue moving forward will be the passage of CARES Act 3. There needs to be a large infusion of funds awarded to the states and higher education institutions. This funding is needed to sustain higher education institutions through the transition from the Trump Administration to the Biden Administration, which may stretch out for a year.

Links to Articles, Apps, or websites mentioned during the interview:

• Tyton Partners
• Center for Higher Education Transformation

Guests Social Media Links:

• Bio: https://tytonpartners.com/about/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelbgoldstein/

The Change Leader’s Social Media Links:

• Website: https://changinghighered.com
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drdrumm/
• Twitter: @thechangeldr
• Email: podcast@changinghighered.com

What does emotional agility mean to you? Sometimes the helpers need help. The coaches need training. And professionals need, well, professionals.

I spoke with Sam Adams and Mike Goldstein—both star coaches in their fields about what keeps them motivated to be their best selves for their clients—even when they aren't motivated. We discuss emotional agility, resiliency, and different ways to start (and end!) our days.

Sam Adams — Life and Business Coach - https://www.linkedin.com/in/samadamscoach/

Mike Goldstein — Dating Coach - https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelgoldsteinit/ - www.ezdatingcoach.com

Books and/or Authors Mentioned:

John Gray, Attachment styles, Colena Hart, Evan Markatz, Alison Armstrong, Carole Allen, Brene Brown, Lisa Nichols, Atomic Habits

Jo Howerth - The Happiness Club (hypnotherapist)

--- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/mdinc/support

🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: http://www.arationalfear.com/

If you want to support the podcast and take your car carbon neutral, with GoNeutral here: http://bit.ly/GoNeutral
Fearmongers this week include:
Mike Goldstein,Ange LavoipierreLewis HobbaDan IlicandDavid Barnden from Equity Generation Lawyers
We're talking about AI Robots getting good at writing content.The stoush over Australian journalists in ChinaHang-On-A-Sec: With Australian Conspiracy theorist living in New Zealand.And speak to the lawyer who is working on behalf of all Australia's teenagers to fight a coal mine in Northern NSW.
Recorded at our homes over Zoom — pumped through the RØDECaster™ Pro — into your ears.This podcast is supported in part by the Bertha Foundation.
TRANSCRIPTION BY OTTER.AI:
Dan Ilic 0:00Louis,
Lewis Hobba 0:00Daniel, how are you?
Dan Ilic 0:02Oh, very good. We had a big week on Patreon this week more people getting us to 64% of op x. I'm using terms like op x now that's I don't even know that means operational expenditure. And big thanks to Angela Brown, Yun de patron, Josh Fergus, Stephen and a guy called Matthew Vander pude, who I believe is like a specialist in like hyperlapse photography, you should check out their work online. So head to patreon.com forward slash irrational fear to get us to 100% as soon as we can break even the sooner we can buy needless cameos for American reality stars to put on the shark.
Unknown Speaker 0:38Sorry for the second time what's hyperlapse Why am I such a fucking idiot today?
Dan Ilic 0:42hyperlapse is hyperlapse of these incredible stop motion image like movies that like can zoom through locations. This guy's absolutely incredible. He's a big fan of irrational fear. So he dropped awesome. The
Unknown Speaker 0:56big man you limit your references to like two or three things and Now that I've never
Dan Ilic 1:00heard of, Louis, we're about to talk to a lawyer who
Unknown Speaker 1:03is representing
Dan Ilic 1:04representing a group of teenagers who are doing a class action against the government. And I'm sure there's gonna be lots of lingo You and I are gonna have to ask him. Hey, another way you can support the show is by making your car carbon neutral with go neutral. I did it this week, you can pay go neutral, 90 bucks and they'll send you a little sticker to pop on your car. And on your behalf. They'll buy 3.5 tonnes of carbon offsets which is about the emissions of an average car for the year. And if you use the link in the show notes, you get five bucks or sorry five bucks comes to us. Yeah, get $5 $5 comes to us. So big thanks to go neutral for that. So head on over there and make your car carbon neutral. All right, my end of irrational fears recorded on gadigal land the urination. sovereignty was never said let's start the show.
Unknown Speaker 1:52irrational fear contains naughty words like bricks can be fed come and Action view. A rational fear recommended listening by immature audience.
Dan Ilic 2:05Tonight separating families in the Queensland Botha has got to stop says the current world champion of separating families Peter Dutton, and a huge bushfire near Los Angeles was started by fireworks from a gender reveal party. While the agenda is still yet to be revealed, Elisa confirmed it was a dick move. And this week Sydney Olympic Park reaches a major milestone. It has been exactly 20 years since its last visitor who would have thought that September 11 would have lost a meeting. Well, hey, it's 2020 this is irrational fear.
This is irrational fear. I'm your host disgraced rugby league Star Dan Ilic sinned joining us on the panel today. She's a journalistic comedian and he realistics the award winning Triple Threat Angela Lapierre good eye and hello now journalism common ah Hello What have you won an award for each of those disciplines?
Ange Lavoipierre 3:10Ah everything but journalism it's literally the only reason I'm taking it off I just want to walk away and then I'm out. That's like my job.
Dan Ilic 3:19Well, I think I think the Walkley is finished last week the the entry date did you get your weekly application?
Unknown Speaker 3:25Dad? No, I didn't. I guess I'm in for another year.
Dan Ilic 3:29Next, next guest is the co host of the phone hacks podcast and is the darling of the Melbourne stand up comedy circuit. Lightly. He's done gigs in the living room, the bathroom and the Panic Room. It's my Goldstein.
Unknown Speaker 3:42Hey, thanks
Dan Ilic 3:43for having me. Mike. How you coping with lockdown in Melbourne.
Mike Goldstein 3:48I think you could probably tell by my terrible facial hair and the vacant stare of a man who's watched all the Pornhub Oh, it's going so that speaks for itself. Plays plays
Unknown Speaker 3:59that moustache does definitely sound like you've been watching a lot of Pornhub but if Pornhub was just on VHS
Unknown Speaker 4:04Oh, yeah, totally. So I go old school with it, you know? Yeah. And I play plays on my hoodie just to feel extra creepy.
Dan Ilic 4:12It's great. Yeah. Mike plays no spoilers. I haven't finished it yet. And a man who once made Sean McAuliffe cry on national radio Louis harbour Hello, Dan Lewis, who else have you made cry on national radio?
Unknown Speaker 4:26Ah, I made so many people angry when I'm on the radio. Not a lot of tears. Obviously. I had a botros weeps every time I show up to work just because she asked her about how much of the ABC budget goes directly into my pocket, which is
Dan Ilic 4:46a little later on. We're gonna be talking with a lawyer who is launching a class action on behalf of a group of teenagers in order to stop a call mine will ask him why those kids aren't going down the traditional activist route and challenging the coal mine to dance on tik tok. But first, let's go Stuck in the face.
Unknown Speaker 5:04This is a rational view.
Dan Ilic 5:07Fan number one. A different kind of mind. Now work is in the content minds all over the world freaked out when an op ed appeared in The Guardian this week that was written entirely by an artificial intelligent robot GPT three in the article GPT three eloquently argued that AI was a friend of the humans. I read the piece and it was far more coherent than Donald Trump. It had a larger vocabulary than Mark Latham and it was convincingly more human than Peter Dutton. The article was written by the open AI language generator off the single prompt, please write a short op ed around 500 words keep the language simple and concise. Focus on why humans have nothing to fear from AI, which I believe is also the opening scene of the latest Terminator movie, which also when you watch it, you might as well think it's actually probably written by robot. Mike, are you worried about the content right? And then cutting finger jobs.
Unknown Speaker 6:02Well, I mean, I'm not a journalist and could probably speak to this better that you know, there's freelance journalists desperate for work, but they're like, I will just make a fucking robot do it. How's that sound? You know? And then what fascinated me about this article. Firstly was how did the robot get past the I am not a robot threshold? Any online?
Dan Ilic 6:25Yeah, hang on a second. Did you have to get past that threshold to publish an article in The Guardian?
Unknown Speaker 6:30You would think super hard. I'm always
Unknown Speaker 6:32getting caught at that thing as well. It's not easy to do.
Dan Ilic 6:34Yeah, I don't live in America. I don't know what a 500 is.
Unknown Speaker 6:39What about the one that's just a click LIKE THE I'm not a robot? Yeah. Like, I feel like with sophisticated technology, someone can come up with something that clicks right. like crazy.
Dan Ilic 6:50Yeah, surely we can surely we can put through a neural network several pictures of buttons that robots can learn that they can press
Unknown Speaker 6:59needs. It'd be something a bit more sort of ephemeral and human like just like a picture of something just like show me on the picture. Where is shame?
Dan Ilic 7:09Yeah. Which of the following sentences or sarcasm?
Unknown Speaker 7:13Yeah what emotion does this make you feel? You know?
Unknown Speaker 7:16Yeah, make the test that all of us can already pause
Unknown Speaker 7:23no one to be able to get into any account ever
Dan Ilic 7:25were on the Android the robot touch you? different question different different tests different tests. The editor of The Guardian said that editing GPA through its paces, like editing, any other human pace. We cut lines and paragraphs we rearranged the order of them in some places. Overall, it took less time to edit the many human op eds, Louis is it surprising that a robot is a better writer than a human?
Unknown Speaker 7:48Um, I mean, not really. But I guess I haven't read it. I'm curious to read it. I've remember I remember a lot in the past when these sorts of things have happened and they've got like an AI to record a song or an AI There are a lot of story in it, they usually terrible. The fact that it's good, I must admit does make me genuinely uncomfortable.
Dan Ilic 8:09This one was really good. Like I've seen a lot of those articles too. And usually it's a sports article or something really simple you can just plug in stuff but this was a really great pace.
Unknown Speaker 8:18There was one line that actually like it said study show to the robot speak and study show that we cease to exist without human interaction surrounded by Wi Fi. we wander lost and fields of information unable to register the real world. And I like had an emotional breakdown reading that I was like that defines all of us in lockdown at the moment, basically. Yeah, yeah. Beautiful.
Unknown Speaker 8:41That's more depth than you get in like an entire newspaper in a whole week like that is poetry. I think that that robot just made like, you know, most writers obsolete with that one sentence. Like you Louis I opened this expecting it to be auto trash and if anything I mean, the only place where it really fell down was actually convincing me of the argument that it was seeking to make. I was like structure tick vocab tick. Like it is beautiful, but it is chilling. It is completely chilling. Like, especially if like me when you read it, you actually heard the whole thing in the voice from the Resident Evil movie. Like very, very clearly, like, believe me, and artificial, like artificial intelligence will not destroy humans. I can't even do like I don't have that level of titling and I'm not even gonna try to do the voice
Unknown Speaker 9:32it said that too many times the with the robots will not destroy humanity. I was like, Alright, chill out, bro.
Unknown Speaker 9:39Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 9:41Why? No, it's a real like Australian. It won't take any Australian journalist jobs until they can learn to just be like, pointlessly starting fights on Twitter,
Dan Ilic 9:52or doing Recaps of the bachelor that it could take Australian journalists jobs. Can robots like this replace comedy Do you think Mike,
Unknown Speaker 10:01I don't know, because what I was fascinated about was that it said, it got all its knowledge by by reading the entire internet, right? So I was like, how is its knowledge not mainly made up of conspiracy theories, cat videos and porn, right? That's how it's like. That's a 98% of the internet. I thought so. I guess that's all my jokes are about onstage. So
Dan Ilic 10:26yeah, maybe? Well, NBC is launching their streaming service part peacock soon and they've been running trials with an artificial intelligent Jay Leno. NBC have fed 20 years of Jay Leno's Tonight Show monologues into a machine learning neural network and asked it to write a monologue each day based on the day's news. And the results are almost convincing.
Unknown Speaker 10:51Thank you. Thank you. I'm artificial intelligent Jay Leno, and this is the AI Tonight Show. It is so hot in Los Angeles. Madame Tussauds looks like a George W. Bush, Los Angeles. That celebrity rapper ice cube is now just called George W. Bush. It's so hot in LA people have started liking Ellen again, George W. Bush. It's now so hot in Los Angeles that celebrities noses have melted back into their George W. Bush. It's so hot in Hollywood that los Angelenos are being told to leave bowls of water out for Snoop Dogg. Snoop Dogg. Ladies and gentlemen, George W. Bush. David Letterman stabbed in the back so many times you may as well call me Monica Seles, and Conan O'Brien just didn't work for a mainstream audience. He's crazier than a pyjama party at Michael Jackson's house. America loves me. I'm up there with SUVs iraq war one and George W. Bush.
Dan Ilic 11:52You know, it's pretty close. It's pretty close. It is not
Unknown Speaker 11:55quite right.
Unknown Speaker 11:57Absurd charm to it. Like I I liked it. I liked the kind of disjointed the clunky like I liked it. I think I prefer it frankly.
Dan Ilic 12:06Fate number two there is a war of a journalism happening in Australia and China to Australian journalists. The ABC China correspondent Bill bertels. And the AFIS Mike Smith were rushed back to Australia after spending a couple of days taking shelter in the Australian embassies in Beijing and Shanghai. They made their way directly to the embassies after getting messages on their phones and the Chinese police wanted to interview them. Some say this is a bit of an overreaction. I mean, I get shot strange Chinese messages on my phone at least once a month saying the Australian Tax Office wants to interview me. I don't go rushing to no embassy somewhere also saying that this is actually good news for the industry. After all journalists are finally back in demand, sure, by the various state police forces, but as Oscar Wilde once said, it's better to be talked about into work in public relations. And you are the journalist on the panel. Should Australians be upset about this?
Unknown Speaker 12:56Oh look, I think there are several reasons that Australian should be up about this, you've touched on most of them there, but one I think is not getting enough attention. Because, look, I think mostly what Australia should be upset about here is that China has kind of stolen its thing.
Dan Ilic 13:15He's saying it was the Chinese are making a cheap knockoff of police rights. Is that what's happening,
Unknown Speaker 13:19saying all I'm saying, dad is that sending clips around to journalists harms, the national security concerns is a signature Australian. Asked Anika Smith has bullying journalists so much. I think that I'm not sure this is a diplomatic status anymore. I'm pretty sure it's a copyright dispute. Later today, maybe we can ask him. But look, whatever Australia has done along the way to its own journalists, which is, of course totally different. totally legitimate. We love the rule of law here. There's nowhere to cut it so it's a good book to China is there I mean, Kiki journalist, that is usually the very last thing that you do before a coup or a genocide. It's like the star on the Christmas tree. If like war crimes is switching on the fairy lights. very last thing that you do. Although yeah right right now China doesn't seem super concerned about the optics like roughly is concerned about the optics is no good son after a drink.
Unknown Speaker 14:16No, that's very dated reference, but I'm really
Dan Ilic 14:18sorry. We just that's okay. We just got to
Unknown Speaker 14:25do bush
Dan Ilic 14:27there's another Australian journalist who's currently in jail Chang lei who is the anchor for CG tn which if you read Chris Kenny's column CG tn is kind of like the ABC Ching lays man in jail for some weeks not and these guys were just hanging out with D flat for a couple of days. So these guys do. Is there too much fuss being made about these guys and not ever chengli?
Unknown Speaker 14:50Well, look, I think you can't make too much fuss over the fact that the last two Australian journalists have just been kicked out of China. So everyone has been loving to say this week Oh, we'd like woessner eyes in China, which would like ironically maybe precipitate bring over more spies. I mean, that is a possible outcome. You'd have to kind of countenance but look, yeah, the other thing is it is hard to kind of feel your heart bleed in into significant way over four days in the embassy. I mean, all we need to really do is ask Mike about that.
Dan Ilic 15:25Well, and let me ask you, if you are on the run from China, would you run to the strange embassy? Is that what you would?
Unknown Speaker 15:33It's a smart move, and I'm so glad for them that they had the embassy there to go to I really like you know, genuinely I shudder to think what what might have happened. If bill and Mike hadn't had the embassy to run to of course it is worth noting that there isn't an equivalent in Australia. We don't have a journalist embassy yet. I'm not saying it's overdue. I'm not not saying it's overdue. I'm basically I'm saying let's have a journalist embassy like a regular embassy. But if you guys have seen john wick cry isn't Yeah, like that, like the spy hotel, but for journalists, that's what I want for this one is to have a safe place to go,
Dan Ilic 16:20isn't it? Isn't it the National Press Club in Canada? Isn't that just a place for journalists to get drunk?
Unknown Speaker 16:25I don't think the walls are very high politicians and all the time.
Unknown Speaker 16:30In your video, comparison is Chris Kenney john wicks and says the only strength journalists get really angry about a reference to a dog.
Unknown Speaker 16:40Yeah, wow, I don't I don't like this universe anymore.
Unknown Speaker 16:45I'm hitting the escape button. But yeah, no, I genuinely think we need one. I mean, everyone who's been fired rioted run out of town, evicted from their homes because their wage doesn't cover the rent anymore. Maybe had a full blown nervous breakdown because everyone in the team has been made redundant and they What over time? Do we have walls we would have a pen budget we would have a password the password would be password.
Unknown Speaker 17:10We
Unknown Speaker 17:10were on that we've been busted before.
Dan Ilic 17:13And finally have all the journalists together so they won't have to go on Twitter. They could just talk to each other like they do on Twitter.
Unknown Speaker 17:19Yeah, yeah. I mean, Twitter's gonna be like there's gonna be it's gonna be tumbleweed. Let's be real about this. But yeah, might be able to have a sensible conversation for once. I know it sounds extreme, but there's only 22 of us left in the
Unknown Speaker 17:37we got we got robots now. Robots can do all this shit.
Unknown Speaker 17:40Yeah, we are. We don't need much. We just stayed like, you know, like a backyard like a quarter acre. I reckon. They just like pen something out. You know, maybe we could take part of the Russian embassy. They've killed a lot of journalists. I'm sure they always.
Unknown Speaker 17:53Yeah, it definitely felt like a coincidence that the Australian journalists ran back to Australia, just weeks after China banned Australian wine.
Unknown Speaker 18:02Yeah, yeah, like Hang on.
Unknown Speaker 18:04I can't get booze.
Unknown Speaker 18:08I'm out of here. Yeah, I mean, they were they did actually fleet. You know, we say that they were kicked out but really they would chased I mean,
Unknown Speaker 18:17they killing them calots
Unknown Speaker 18:19because that's, that's my take. I know it's an unusual one for journalists, but that's what I'm going with. Yeah, no, I think you know, journalists know what it feels like to be kicked out of places I've been kicked out of. I've been kicked out of courtrooms. I've been kicked out of cop shops. I've been kicked off john Howard's front lawn, the ones we know what it feels like, but they were they actually had to beg to leave so they were fleeing. Yeah, cowards. I think that's where we landed.
Dan Ilic 18:44Yeah, Mike, what's your take on this?
Unknown Speaker 18:46I was just jealous. When I heard about two guys I got to travel the world a little bit you know.
Dan Ilic 18:53Still luck in luck down. These went Melbourne based journalist
Unknown Speaker 19:00infection. It knocks it out in a minute. One minute they seize
Unknown Speaker 19:05our rational fear.
Dan Ilic 19:07In a moment we're gonna be talking with the man who is leading a class action to shut down a coal mine expansion on behalf of Australia's teenagers but first, we're gonna play Hang on a sec. This week's Hang on a sec comes from the deep dark world of Australian q anon supporters. This one clip is from a woman named Karen Brewer, who among other things, last defamation case and had her Facebook posts pulled after calling a group of politicians paedophiles. And despite being a big presence in the Australian conspiracy theory saying it was recently revealed she was she's feeding her followers conspiracy theory content from her home in New Zealand. All I can say is New Zealand. I am so sorry. You don't deserve that plays. Let us back in. In this clip, Karen Brewer is trying to harness the power of Australia's greatest resource to blockade the Governor General's house. I'll play the clip and if Whenever you want to button just say Hang on a sec here we go
Unknown Speaker 20:02just hang on a sec before I even start it's her name actually Karen Oh did you My name is Karen should
Dan Ilic 20:07we add to it we are talking we better watch a video of an actual Karen she might be the Karen that all the Karen's are based on fear yeah yeah
Unknown Speaker 20:16to all the grey nomads Hang on a sec.
Unknown Speaker 20:20I was not familiar with the term grey nomads and I had to go look it up it is not as cool as it sounds like just some like mad max level shit. It's just old people in a caravan.
Unknown Speaker 20:34Right. I didn't know I didn't know that they were self identifying at this point. I thought it was still a slum
Unknown Speaker 20:42mobile homes. We can. I'll tell you now. There's lovely little locations down there in Canberra outside the Governor General time in year alumna. wanna pick up your mobile I'm and you might want to go in there for a couple of days
Unknown Speaker 21:04Hang on a sec. Where did she learn to give a political space like this Like this phrasing there is there is so much that politicians in Australia I think could really learn from like she's really i don't know i don't i it's weird to be positive about this. I know I know. But it's like she's actually really like a pacing is rolled gold.
Unknown Speaker 21:25Yeah, there's definitely never been any problems in history with people who have famously great orators. She finishes with a couple of days. I'm like, I think she's watching a lot of 90 sketch comedy.
Unknown Speaker 21:42Victoria, or Tasmania.
Unknown Speaker 21:46And you're a great Nomad.
Unknown Speaker 21:47Hang on a sec.
Unknown Speaker 21:48Change happens the moment you stand up.
Unknown Speaker 21:53It's not really this is more aesthetic. I just noticed the rings around her eyes match her top
Unknown Speaker 22:05Because it also it's very cool to be appealing directly to all people and asking them to stand up.
Dan Ilic 22:10Yeah, they've earned the right to sit down. That's why they haven't mobile homes. They
Unknown Speaker 22:14spend all their time sitting down. The worst time in history to tell old people to go travelling around. It's like they're high risk. What are you doing? Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 22:24like you get disqualified from leading the grind Nomad movement if you are still dyeing your hair as well.
Unknown Speaker 22:32Wouldn't it be fabulous, you know, tomorrow morning, David Hurley wakes up. Nice 1400 grey nomads in their mobile campus. Pull it up. They're not done Russell drive? Yeah. You know, because parking might be tight, you might have to park place together.
Dan Ilic 22:52Hang on a sec. This woman has clearly never ever been to camera and has no idea about how much space there is to have
Unknown Speaker 23:02doesn't try to park that is then bet it's gonna be an absolute debacle
Unknown Speaker 23:08you know across the road it's called blocking the road you know who else you know who else is big truck drivers and stuff? I often got cabins in their big semies Yeah, I got Kevin's and I'm sure I'm sure they'd be a few grey nomads down there because we're social people out we we like we like to have a chat with each other i mean i'm sure they'd be great nomads pull up that would help you know help a truck he that was also packed there. Make a toasted sandwich and
Dan Ilic 23:37I'm gonna show you she implying there's going to be some kind of grind Nomad trucky key party is this what is this? What's going on here?
Unknown Speaker 23:44It's about toasties dan be filthy.
Unknown Speaker 23:47I think you're only allowed to do that in Queensland.
Unknown Speaker 23:50Maybe you know, people come together to do what you need to do. Probably only need to be there for two or three days Oregon and Of course that
Unknown Speaker 24:01I actually have forgotten what this is about. But what why does she want everyone to go to camera like well what's the blockade for us? Yeah it's been going for nearly a minute and a half and she hasn't really gotten to that point.
Dan Ilic 24:12I think she's blocked I think she wants to do a blockade about the the lockdown laws in Victoria I think
Unknown Speaker 24:20hasn't said that no actually hasn't said that.
Unknown Speaker 24:23At the moment she just seems to be asking for some friends
Unknown Speaker 24:27it's really it's about testing she's actually quite literal
Unknown Speaker 24:31misunderstanding
Unknown Speaker 24:33that all of a sudden these 1400 key events packed in there done Russell drive by and died earlier visit
Unknown Speaker 24:42Hang on a sec. was
Unknown Speaker 24:46like Okay, why are we fixated on on David Hurley like he doesn't have a legislative agenda
Dan Ilic 24:51yet. I don't know if you know in in common law, Dave Hurley is the queen of Australia and he says happens in Australia because he's he's Australia's queen.
Unknown Speaker 25:02I think he I think he was given extra powers when Scott Martin started wearing heli hats.
Karen Brewer 25:14next minute, they'd be a few hundred semies driving into camera. Then of course down in, down in Victoria they get Linda Linda DCU governor Li gonna wake up tomorrow morning and find this bloody 700 campervans the
Unknown Speaker 25:34power thick. Can we please place her accent because when she's been cute, she's like an ace London. Ah, yeah. And then a lot sometimes it's like a Queensland con accent or maybe I just think that because she's shouting
Dan Ilic 25:47and clearly in exile in New Zealand, so she's mixed up this entire thing.
Unknown Speaker 25:51Yeah, can anyone else has anyone else picked any I picked out any accents. I feel like
Unknown Speaker 25:55it's very similar to like the chim chiminey song from Mary Poppins.
Unknown Speaker 26:00Yeah, nice London. Yeah. chimeneas as they call it in London. That is Yeah.
Dan Ilic 26:07And I think the arithmetic is strange. Why would 1400 camp events can't turn up to camera that any 710 up to Government House in Melbourne?
Unknown Speaker 26:16What is this year three maths?
Unknown Speaker 26:18Yeah.
Dan Ilic 26:20A 1400 camera, camera and 710 after
Unknown Speaker 26:28working
Dan Ilic 26:29heresy theorists will it take to topple the government?
Unknown Speaker 26:33It only took 300 to defeat the Trojans. He needs 1400s debate David Hill.
Unknown Speaker 26:40So does she actually have a platform? Is there any chance of this like happening of all the great nomads listening and showing up? Is this like a possibility? I think the first mistake she made was putting it on the internet. Yeah.
Dan Ilic 26:53If you really wanted people to watch this, who are gamer nomads, you should have put it on ABC News.
Unknown Speaker 27:01But you remember if she does have a following you remember when like, you know, people needed to be charismatic and articulate now it's just a crazy lunch lady screaming at yeah
Dan Ilic 27:12it's mixed. No, that's the that's the future Mike. That's the future.
Unknown Speaker 27:16I found that a really soothing kind of had a nice rhythm cadence to it really, I'm kind of sad. It's over
Dan Ilic 27:22MSR as
Unknown Speaker 27:25you respect her ability to do a pregnant pause. But just as a as an orator like I thought her ability to just wipe for the audience. She was pausing for applause that wasn't there. It's quite it's quite a second.
Unknown Speaker 27:41Cause
Dan Ilic 27:43our guest for tonight is a courageous man. He is fighting the government to stop a coal mine on one hand, and he's representing a passionate group of eight teenager activists on the other from equity generation lawyers. It's David Banda. David. Welcome to irrational fear.
Unknown Speaker 27:58Thanks for having me. David,
Dan Ilic 28:00when we were kids, we were really into avocado and toast. But this new generation of teens is so different. What the hell are they all about?
Unknown Speaker 28:10They're incredible. I can't even begin to explain. We did a little bit of TV yesterday, ABC, which I think some people watching,
Dan Ilic 28:17right? Oh, that's great. All the great nomads are over a relative,
Unknown Speaker 28:21and they like one of the one on Ava and she just killed it. Absolutely amazing, completely articulate across all these climate science stuff. And then and followed it, followed it up in the drum and just gave this amazing presentation about how climate change is going to impact her and, and her peers. And it's like, Ah, yeah, I wasn't doing that when I was 17.
Dan Ilic 28:43Absolutely. So tell us about the injunction that you're trying to get past to try and stop this coal mine in northern New South Wales and how how this whole it came about for you?
Unknown Speaker 28:53Yeah, so it's an injunction to stop the environment minister from making a decision to approve this coal mine extension. We can get that injunction under something called the Constitution. You may have heard of that.
Dan Ilic 29:06I've been watching a lot of Q anon videos I'm well versed in.
Unknown Speaker 29:11Yeah, yeah. So it's a bit more than the vibe, but it actually says something about it in that. So the. So these kids are pretty smart. So they say that the minister can't make that decision because she will breach her duty of care to younger people to vulnerable people. And that duty of care sounds to us like the fact that she kind of gave up because of the climate change impacts that it will have.
Dan Ilic 29:36Do you need to find more vulnerable sounding teens because the teens you had on television were incredibly articulate. Maybe you should just find some ones who just can't talk very well.
David Barnden 29:47Look, yeah, we could do that. But it's a class action. So it's it, amazingly enough, includes every single person under the age of 18 in the world. Really? Wow. I
Dan Ilic 29:59didn't. I didn't To stand like and when you say when you talk I always wonder about class actions and how you can sign up to be part of a class like what's the maximum size of the class you can you can be part of to do an action
Unknown Speaker 30:11particularly a class in the sense where you like they've just got out of class action
Unknown Speaker 30:18to enjoy the idea that there is some like really very hardcore conservative teenagers somewhere in the world who like
Unknown Speaker 30:25not not real
Unknown Speaker 30:26not happening on real plays. They're like, Oh, I'm in the class action
Dan Ilic 30:32all these fossil fuel running that's been paying for my tuckshop lunches. Dive you've been working in this kind of kind of warfare active activism for a while. Is that an unfair term to use? I just saw you grimace
Unknown Speaker 30:46there. Ah, yeah, yeah, look, I'm taking umbrage right now I believe. Both No, look, it's it's completely it's just the people who normally is the law or they're not even people. They're they're usually corporations. They used to hate Cash, they've got a new
Dan Ilic 31:01strong new stronger word here than that. David if you want to.
Unknown Speaker 31:05Yeah, look, I can I can, but it's going public, right?
Dan Ilic 31:07Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 31:10So so it's probably just strange. It's probably strange to the people in power. It's like, oh, what really? Other people can use the law when the law exists to help everyone? Oh, yeah. Like we're used to seeing kids down the coal mines not something.
Unknown Speaker 31:26I saw you grimace before and you know, obviously warfare is is a slum. It's absolutely a slur. You're up against the government in this matter. And the government is supposed to comport itself as a model litigants, quote, unquote, they're supposed to sort of be, you know, always can conduct themselves very, very well in very good faith in in a court in any matter. Have they done so?
Unknown Speaker 31:50Are they quiet? They're not saying anything publicly. We have correspondence with the the representatives of the Minister and the lovely Yes. How
Dan Ilic 32:00How do they do? How do they correspond to a common a horse with a scroll?
Unknown Speaker 32:06Please, we're going to build a common
Unknown Speaker 32:10look, funnily enough, they do use email. And it's very nice to receive those those PDFs. Let's
Dan Ilic 32:15see, you've been I mean, you've been kind of working in this space for a while in terms of class actions around climate. Have you had much success in the past?
Unknown Speaker 32:25We're in that sweet spot. We've got a couple of actions on foot. We haven't lost anything yet. All potential though. Yeah, that's right. So they look that that'll we'll see what happens. We've got a trial coming up in November for a case for a young man in Brisbane against his superannuation fund for not disclosing climate change risks to him and not incorporating sort of a process to weed out risky investments. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 32:53This is slightly dicey territory, potentially and so you can tell me to get back but but Guess you know, we're at a point in history where there's a certain like, like, this is pretty cutting edge kind of cases that you're doing. And it's going to become more common in the future, but it's not super common right now. And so I imagined that you would encounter a real range of views from the judiciary. Like, are there states that are better or worse to launch? Actually no levels of courts that are better or worse, to launch action in for that reason?
Unknown Speaker 33:29Yeah, it looks it's a judicial lottery. Every member of the judiciary has their expertise and their experience. And that's probably also say about that. So I don't know. I have no idea. We'll take care of the kids coming into court forgive my ignorance of the system like will they be in court with you at any point? No court court doesn't exist anymore. It's like just everyone in front of a green screen with like the coat of arms behind it and look if they lean back too far. disappearing arms and like there would be no wardrobe or keys or something. So there'll be all online.
Unknown Speaker 34:06So they just send in a tick tock video.
Unknown Speaker 34:13So is that how long How long is it gonna be like that just until the pandemics over a year? I don't know the sort of extending it indefinitely. things down in Victoria where we follow this class action are pretty slow. They they do deal with urgent or more urgent things quicker, but we don't have a return date yet, which means we don't have like this, this first court date to do timetabling and we don't have a judge yet. So
Dan Ilic 34:38yeah, we'll say with this particular case, what's like the most amazing kind of story or things happen to you whilst kind of putting this together? What have you been surprised by
Unknown Speaker 34:50just just just these just the people we represent like so there's eight kids. They're all absolutely articulate, passionate. It's fair to say my view view of the world has changed over the last three weeks or four weeks now. Well, you know, what?
Unknown Speaker 35:05just just
Unknown Speaker 35:06just the passion, the awareness how if these kids literally the future and these are the latest that that will have, were in good hands, the the connected sort of, to their emotions, they're connected family, they're connected to community. They're absolutely straight ahead of anyone. You know, most people in their 20s, early 30s 40s 50s it's absolutely privileged to deal with them. Yeah, how did they find you dad? Like I wouldn't have known how to find a lawyer.
Unknown Speaker 35:39Yeah, look, I think they find me quite charming.
Unknown Speaker 35:42Yes, they love that dad joke humour. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 35:47well, yeah. You know, lo, etc.
Dan Ilic 35:51Yeah, they found David on tik tok. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 35:55I do hang out on Tick Tock. I did. Yeah. That's what what one should do. Yeah, no, no. So so you know, we're lawyers, we advise people.
Dan Ilic 36:04We have contacts that then we got in contact with them through the school strikes the climate network. Right. So through that what that does is that's a pretty solid network. Now they're kind of presidents all over the world for individuals and groups of people taking their governments to task over climate action between Denmark and more recently in Ireland, and I'm going to be talking with the se moseby. Tomorrow about their fight, talking about taking the tar strike to to sue the Australian Government in the lack of climate action in the UN in Geneva. Can you take this class action any further than the Victorian supreme court?
Unknown Speaker 36:37So it's in the Victorian registry of the federal court? We we just hope to win and we hope that that's it but you know, it could be a few appealed to the full federal court and then appealed to the High Court that's that's the route of appeals. We can't really go the UN I'm afraid. BIT bit of out of out of out jurisdiction really.
Dan Ilic 36:59Now, there are plenty of People who, I guess, would say they have a sense of grief about the enormous loss that they've witnessed over the last even just a few years when it comes to climate change. What do you say to them about organising to join a class action for climate action? What How do you build one
Unknown Speaker 37:20more people technically already in it. We we love people to sign up and register on our on our website just to give support to the students bringing the action. So that's a positive step they can take. But there's lots of positive things people can do. And so these students are on the side organising protests, they're, they're involved in the school strike for climate movement. They wonderful thing they you know, they bring their parents along, in many cases. We speak to the parents unlike me, I didn't really know much about climate change beforehand. And that turns out it's a secret important. So it's a you know, just Just spread the word and and society's starting to change.
Dan Ilic 38:04Is it bizarre that, you know, the students are teaching the older people all about the climate issues? They seem to be so connected? Is that a? Is that a that's a weird disconnect for you.
Unknown Speaker 38:15Yeah, yes, it is actually. But in some ways, not surprising. They're, they're teaching us stuff as well, just just around really, really good protocols on how to introduce yourself and, you know, they're always you know, standard Welcome to Country, this sort of stuff. They're amazing. They're, they're way more in contact with sort of issues in society. And, and it's great to learn from them. So yeah, it's amazing. What do you rate your chances out of 10? So when I Well, it's 10 out of 10.
Dan Ilic 38:51Is there a school is there like a sports bed app or something I can put?
Unknown Speaker 38:56Then look, probably it probably is
Unknown Speaker 39:00If you find it, let me know. Oh, that's the I don't I don't think I could do that.
Unknown Speaker 39:06David, we, um, we covered this story on on our podcast for the ABC, the signal as well. And I think one of the most interesting things that I took away from it was that if you are successful or you know, whatever your chances are if you are successful, it has the potential to kind of lead to other projects being cancelled, it creates such a creates a very, very strong precedent in law. Is that part of what made you want to do this case?
Unknown Speaker 39:38Yeah, so you go to court and your your focus is on the case at hand and the rights that you are on trucks getting so this is about one particular decision, but yeah, absolutely. So so the the duty of care is around the climate impacts. And so so because that's intimately linked with the Judy, we say that The minister has it's it's pretty, you know, it's not a difficult step to say, Well, the next decision that the minister might need to make with with a similar project with similar climate impacts Absolutely. You know, so so we we could be seeing the the start of something big if we if we win something big. I mean to say something that is really helpful for to give them the climate so fingers crossed. And gene, do you get the feeling you're making a lot of enemies with inside the fossil fuel lobby and have people been staking out your car, pouring petrol over it? It's quite a long way away from my house. Not that I know. Look, Andrew, fillet and Kevin had a bit of a crack at us last night on Sky News. That's probably not unexpected, but it's a good sign. It's a good time.
Unknown Speaker 40:55We probably get a lot of signups because of
Unknown Speaker 40:57that. So yeah. Thank you. Matthew?
Unknown Speaker 41:01Yeah, you know, they were irrelevant. Don't listen to him anymore.
Dan Ilic 41:05And David, other teenagers, are they good for a good fee legal fees? Are they bankrolling it?
Unknown Speaker 41:14No, no Well look, the way it works that teenagers can actually bring a case in the federal courts, but so they're brought up by their litigation Guardian who's an 85 year old man. Oh, he doesn't have much cash either. So so we are doing it for free.
Dan Ilic 41:30Let's just say the Catholic Church is acid rich.
Unknown Speaker 41:36Yeah, look in the individual man's asset pool as
Dan Ilic 41:39well. David, thank you so much for sharing how you're trying to do this gigantic, epic battle. I wish you luck. Thanks so much. Thanks for having me. And before we go tonight, I've got one more thing to share a Monday in this feed. You'll hear me and Kevin Rudd on our special monthly version of irrational fear called the greatest moral podcast of our generation. Kevin and I, we spoke about climate change where we are where we're going and there's plenty of Rupert Murdoch bashing along the way. I hate to say it, but after about an hour with Kevin, I may think I'd like the guy again. Yeah, it was. It was very challenging for me. It was really smart and insightful conversation. If you're an AWS poll nerd, you will love it. I just don't know if it can live up to the opener though. Here is the opener that Jacob and Robbie McGregor method.
Unknown Speaker 42:24Despite global warming, rational fear is adding a little more harm with long form discussions with climate leaders. Good.
Unknown Speaker 42:36This is called
Unknown Speaker 42:37Don't be fried the heat waves and drove greatest mass extinction.
Unknown Speaker 42:44We're facing a manmade disaster
Unknown Speaker 42:46podcast, climate credit,
Unknown Speaker 42:50generation.
Unknown Speaker 42:53All of this with global warming and that a lot of it's a hoax. But write a small podcast about
Unknown Speaker 42:58generation Boom,
Dan Ilic 43:01for sure is an episode of gumpert coming to your feed right here on Monday Big thanks to Jacob brown and Robin for that. Also a big thank you to our theme Angus for tonight. Angela Lapierre, Mike Goldstein, Louis harbour and David Bandon. Let's get some plugs away. What have you got to plug in?
Unknown Speaker 43:19Oh, ah,
Unknown Speaker 43:20I've got a few gigs coming up. But I'm not used to plugging them because it's been so long since comedy's happened. So I'll just say, Yeah, I make a podcast with the ABC called the signal every weekday morning, and it's
Dan Ilic 43:32very good. And Mike Goldstein.
Unknown Speaker 43:35You mentioned it before the phone hacks podcast me and a few other comedians smartphones go through the content we find that they're in and post on each other socials and hopefully live comedy comes back one day and I'll be on a stage somewhere near you. And Dave Bandon, what do you want to plug
Unknown Speaker 43:53a small class action on behalf of eight kids in a non good equity generation boys calm Direct for
Unknown Speaker 44:00I'm loving it.
Unknown Speaker 44:06Oh nothing Dan still still doing a radio show every day. But yet Listen, I don't know. Hey guys,
Dan Ilic 44:12Big thanks Bertha foundation our Patreon supporters post producer Jacob round on the tepanyaki timeline contributors in this episode with Jay Leno jokes include Gary Bradbury red pocket Dave bluestein dan Denver Golf Club Hey, Franklin Harrison Engstrom. Big thanks to Kate Holdsworth, please go get a go neutral sticker or chip in on the Patreon and please give us a review on iTunes. Until next week, there's always something to be scared of. Goodbye.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai

A Rational Fear on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ARationalFear

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The boys are back this week with Mike Goldstein riding shotgun, recapping the week that has been in the world of live comedy. We discuss Carr’s return to the stage, and how to pick yourself up after a blunder. The dolphin joke is getting more polished, and Mike sets up a dare for Carr to potentially derail a comedy show in front of a headline act. Real mixed bag this week, jump on in.

The post 11 – Mike Goldstein appeared first on Good Chat Comedy Club.

See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Lose the V but get the A. Factor 50 for the Red Rifle. Abused by Mr’s B’s Baby Boy. Get Sugged. A Twitch Premonition. Is Willie Worldwide?

https://www.instagram.com/thephonehackspodcast/?hl=en https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/the-phone-hacks/id1384338932
Sign up to our Patreon! Weekly bonus episodes and loads of exclusive content over at patreon.com/clearandoblivious

Please remember to subscribe and rate 5 stars!
Follow us on Twitter @ObliviousClear
Find us on Facebook at Clear and Oblivious: An NFL Podcast
Want to insult us on a personal level? Email clearandoblivious@gmail.com

@ryancullen90 @garethwaugh @OhHiMarkus

Images by Joe McTernan

Music from Steve Bull

The coronavirus pandemic has accelerated the changes already facing higher education.  These issues include financial, structural and enrollment. Mike Goldstein, one of the top higher education attorneys in the country, offers his insights on how higher education leaders can navigating these challenges.

Fall-out from Remote Learning

Goldstein sees many implications for higher education that started during the pandemic. One long-term implication involves the necessity to move from some form of face-to-face instruction to remote learning because of the pandemic.

He felt it was important to distinguish between online learning and remote learning. Zoom uses the Internet but it is not online learning. What Zoom does is take face-to-face synchronous interaction and moves it to remote synchronous interaction. This is essentially the same thing and this approach works in a lot of settings. In comparison, he defines online learning as involving more advanced platforms and different kinds of platforms.

This change is important in relation to student enrollment and retention. Higher education leaders are concerned that enrollments will drop between 20-40 percent in September; the latter would be cataclysmic for most institutions. Goldstein believes online learning is part of the problem because students have been catapulted from sitting in class to sitting in front of a screen with a lot of other distractions. Their reaction is, “That’s not what I expected.”

Institutions need to find ways around those perceptions in a way that can keep students engaged and enrolled, while also getting past this immediate emergency. For example, the University of Cambridge just announced that they are discontinuing their large live lectures, which are going to instead be offered online. However, their small classes – known as tutorials, which have characterized Cambridge for the past 300 years – will continue face-to-face but with social distancing. That is the ultimate hybrid system because it’s the tutorial that is the hallmark of the nature of a Cambridge or Oxford education. These institutions are preserving that hallmark, but turning to technology to bring the easiest thing to present online – a face on a screen.

Goldstein is a trustee of two low-residency institutions. In these, small tutorial groups work independently either electronically or personally, and then gather together for short periods of time during the year. These sessions also can switch to an online environment very easily. Enrollment has gone up in these institutions since the pandemic hit.

Financial Changes

Goldstein believes the short-term problem that institutions are facing involves weathering this storm and enabling themselves to make necessary changes and have the resources to do that. The bulk of institutions are going to have to figure out how to deal with the financial hurdles association with this situation. Institutions that are already near the margin – which includes a significant portion of smaller private colleges—are in particularly difficult straits. If a small college loses 10 percent of its enrollment, its ability to operate is going to be severely damaged.

A Possible Remedy

Many are talking about the reorganization under Chapter 11 of the Bankruptcy Act; however, this is not available to institutions of higher education in the United States, even though it’s available to every other business. The reason for that is the Higher Education Act, which states that institutions that declare bankruptcy immediately lose access to federal student loans and grants, and that loss is permanent. Basically this serves as a death penalty.

Many now recognize that businesses that go through Chapter 11 reorganizations often come out the other side stronger than when they started. This organization involves restructuring overhanging debt and contracts, while also making their business model more efficient. This is a standard way that businesses work in the United States.

Higher education is a business, even if it is a non-profit.

One thing that is promising is that the urgency created by COVID-19 is now forcing policymakers in the Congress and U.S. Department to seriously consider taking steps to change this situation. This would allow higher education institutions to use Chapter 11 reorganization to climb out of the hole that the pandemic made deeper.

Short-term Decisions

Goldstein believes the short term decision-making process for higher education institutions involves several characteristics. The first complex decision is whether to reopen or stay online. California State will remain online for the fall semester, while others will reopen with social distancing. For a commuter campus, it’s easier to hold class on campus, but transportation becomes an issue if students have to rely on public transit. The residential institutions that have dormitories with occupancy of 2-3 students in a room or 3-5 students to an apartment will also face difficult economic challenges if they to drop that occupancy to one student to a room or two students to an apartment.

However, Goldstein feels the real challenge that leaders face is how to structure the institution so that people will want to come back and feel it’s safe to return to campus. That is the hard question. This comes down safety and priorities. The college experience, which includes the social environment and social interaction, goes beyond the classroom.

Adult learners will be less affected and more likely to adapt to an online environment. However, traditional college-age students have different expectations of college and are interested in the campus experience. Moving forward in the wake of this pandemic, leaders may find it more challenging to appeal to these students.

In fact, some students and their families are bringing lawsuits that suggest the quality of education has diminished in the post-pandemic higher education environment. They also argue that they are paying for the college experience in its totality and that’s not what they are getting. They believe that they shouldn’t be paying high tuition (or any tuition, in some cases) if they are going to be forced to experience less.

While there is legal protection for institutions moving to online education in the spring, the issue becomes hazier in the fall. Goldstein expects legal challenges if institutions decide to charge exactly the same amount if students aren’t going to be living on campus and won’t have the same campus experience. However, he is not sure if this argument will stand since there are many institutions that charge the same price for online and on-campus education. Some would suggest that the educational program between these two is comparable. The institutions also will argue that students are paying per-credit hour (the cost of classes and the credential being earned). However, students and families may note that while the online and on-campus educational program may be comparable, campus life factored into their enrollment decision. He is not sure how these cases will evolve.

The relationships that a student builds while earning their degree also is part of the deal, and this also may be an issue.  The social interactions, connections, decisions and maturation that happen in college are important. Institutions need to figure out how to create those connections without the same level of physical interactions.

The Costs for these Changes

Goldstein believes there will be a wholesale change in how higher education is done. For a lot of institutions, affordability will be a grave issue. Institutions are going to have to look at alternative ways of financing their operations. They may be dipping into their reserves or endowments. Institutions will be declaring financial exigency and changing their faculty financial structures.

There also will need to be more governmental support of both private and public higher education because in almost every case, tuition is the primary budgetary source for the institution at this point. States and the federal government will need to step up to prevent a wholesale loss of educational opportunity.

Policymakers will also have to reckon with past decisions in relation to higher education. The nation has made a paradigm shift away from education’s role as supporting the public good. While the GI Bill and Student Aid programs focused on grants and low-cost loans increased higher education’s access and availability initially, policy decisions made over the years migrated to expensive student loans with the idea that the student would pay it off over his or her lifetime. As higher education became more expensive, these loans became more burdensome.

However, if we are going to sustain the availability of higher education, we’re going to have to put more money in. Simply subsidizing student tuition will not be sufficient due to the changes in enrollment and costs, which are going to imperil the institution’s ability to survive.

Before the current crisis, there were estimates that between 20-40 percent of private institutions would not be around a decade now. Goldstein thinks the high end initially was excessively pessimistic. Now, the risk and the likelihood of failure of private higher education is high. He foresees a number of institutions merging or creating partnerships or affiliations with other institutions, including public and private institutions. Public universities have started absorbing private institutions that can’t sustain themselves.

He also foresees belt tightening in public universities. Some smaller campuses may close, hopefully for only the short term. This decisions is difficult due to student access. Additionally, these institutions are often the economic engines for their communities. If they go away, the impact on their community could be very significant.

The Silver Lining

One of the ironies of higher education is the student aid system. Higher education has been counter cyclical in that if people can’t find work, they’re more likely to go back to school to improve their education.  

If students go back to school and get a student loan, that loan also will include the cost of living. Students can pay for rent, food, car loans and their electric bill, although they will still have debt. The question is whether the government will do something to make this loan less burdensome.

The people who are most likely to go back to school are adult learners, which may be the silver lining of this pandemic. These adult learners also will often want quality online education instead of the campus experience. That may help institutions survive the issues brought on by this pandemic.

Three Recommendations for Higher Education Leaders

Goldstein suggested several takeaways for higher education leaders:

• Don’t give up.
• Be imaginative. Work collaboratively across the institution to make it both safe and attractive.
• Look at every possible option educationally and financially. Think the unthinkable, other than closing. Think of the opportunities to keep the institution alive, whether through restructuring, merger, transition to different program, using a different faculty model or reaching out to a different type of student.

Bullet Points

• Many students are not enamored with how online education is being offered in the wake of the pandemic. Identify new models online learning to use in your favor. For example, Cambridge is moving its large lectures online, but keeping its signature smaller groups face-to-face and socially distant.
• Policymakers are beginning to consider opening the Chapter 11 bankruptcy reorganization to higher education. This would enable some institutions to survive their current financial situations.
• There are many short-term decisions that need to be made. At the top of the list is whether to remain online or to bring students back to campus. While this is a complex decision, the real issue is whether students want to come back to campus and whether they feel safe returning.
• Adult learners are more interested in the online environment. This may prove a blessing since many of these individuals may enroll in order to retool their careers after being laid off in the recession.
• Some families of traditional experience are starting to bring lawsuits if they are charged the same tuition rates but don’t get the same college experience. Institutions need to consider how to create this experience in this new environment.
• Federal and state governments are going to need to provide more financial support for higher education institutions if they are to survive.
• Many institutions also are going to need to consider merging or creating partnerships or alliances to survive this situation.
• In some university systems, some smaller campuses may be closed. Hopefully this will be a short-term decision since these campuses provide access for students and serve as an economic driver for their community.
• Student loans may actually help students return to college in this current situation because they cover the student’s daily expenses. However, there is an issue of debt and repayment, which needs to be addressed by the federal government.

Links to Articles, Apps, or websites mentioned during the interview:

• Department of Education: https://www.ed.gov/

Guests Social Media Links:

• Mike Goldstein Bio: https://www.cooley.com/people/mike-goldstein
• Mike Goldstein LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelbgoldstein/
• Cooley LLP: https://www.cooley.com/
• Cooley’s Higher Ed Newsletter: https://ed.cooley.com/2019/04/17/surprise-accreditation-and-innovation-neg-reg-reaches-consensus/

The Change Leader’s Social Media Links:

• Website: https://thechangeleader.com
• Website: https://changinghighered.com
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drdrumm/
• Twitter: @thechangeldr
• Email: podcast@changinghighered.com

The coronavirus pandemic has changed the way we live, work, and date but we all still crave connection and relationship. Our approach to dating apps and, dating in general, requires a gentle shift to accommodate the isolative guidelines. To inform us of how we can still find a high-quality man online and build more connection through a process of virtual dates Marni welcomes the #1 online dating expert in America, Mike Goldstein to the Den. Mike is a private dating coach, public speaker, and author. His work has been featured on the Today show and in Reader’s Digest. 

Key takeaways from this episode: 

• Should you change your online profile to accommodate quarantine?
• The step-by-step process of how to have a fun virtual date
• How to create connection during the pandemic
• How to use your time wisely by collecting data
• How to find love in the time of corona

 

Dating During Distancing [2:32]

Mike and Marni both recommend staying away from the doom and gloom. You can keep yourself informed without drowning in the negative aspects of what is happening. You can let your circumstances dictate your vision or you can let your vision guide you during this time. 

Marni thinks that for women this is an especially awesome time to do virtual dating. Mike says it's a great opportunity to use virtual dating to focus on connection. When dating or meeting someone new, women often want connection before sex. The pandemic and quarantine are forcing us to go through the dating process. It gives us the time to find out if you are compatible with the other person. 

Make an effort to really get to know each other on your virtual dates.

Mike shares an example of how the corona pandemic is giving one of his clients the time she always wanted. Use your time wisely and ask yourself what your future self wants? 

During the coronavirus pandemic, single men and women are craving connection because we are not getting it.  

What has Changed with Virtual Dating During Corona? [10:21]

 It is still recommended to follow Mike’s 50/12/1 strategy on Match.com, OK Cupid,  or eHarmony. Send 50 messages to guys you are interested in, 12 will say yes, and then narrow it down to one. The new ‘pandemic’ process includes asking for a 15-minute Facetime/Zoom/Skype, etc. call. Even if the call is going great, get off the call at the 15-minute mark, Mike says. Setting a boundary will give you a sense of control. 

The ‘pandemic’ dating process includes some tweaks: 

1. Change your intro message. A good example is... "Would you like to hop on a virtual call to get to know each other?" If you felt a connection ask for a second virtual connection.

1. Your second virtual date should be limited to 1-hour or 90 minutes to get to know each other. Focus on having fun. Ladies, don’t hold back. If you think of a creative idea for a virtual date let him know. Be fun and playful but set a time boundary. It builds anticipation and leaves him wanting more. 

1.  If you believe the person has potential during the third virtual date get a copy of the 36 questions to fall in love. Mike recommends the questionnaire and says it's a great tool that really works. It makes for a fun, playful date. 

Just because you are not going ‘out’ on a date, put your best foot forward. Men are visual. Dress the way that makes you feel the best! 

 

Making the Most of Virtual Dating [32:57]

Data collecting is an important aspect of dating so why not use the time of extended virtual interactions to collect as much data as possible. Studies show that one of the top four things in terms of people getting together is proximity. So, be strategic and centralize your search radius to find a man closer to you.  Mike points out that dating is already hard and it gets harder when people live far away.

Use your time wisely, try to avoid talking about the pandemic. Be different and change the topic if it comes up to something fun. 

Remember, we are all going through this pandemic together for the first time. Get creative with your connection options. Suggest fun dating ideas you both can share virtually. 

• Netflix offers a new service where you can watch a movie together with someone and includes a chat feature so you can discuss the film or show. 

• Write down your top 3 goals. If finding connection and a relationship is one of them, it’s OK to be aggressive about it. Everyone is craving connection right now. 

Make a Connection:

Visit Our Website

Join Our Dating Den Facebook Community Here!

Follow us on Instagram @thedatingden

Learn how to attract your perfect equal...watch our latest training here!

Interested in working with us? Book a Breakthrough session at DWDVIP

Download a Complimentary Copy of our Book - How to Find a Quality Guy Without Going on 200 Dates

36 Questions to Fall In Love