How Should a Law Firm Approach Pricing Strategy with John Chisholm
John Chisholm was a US lawyer. For 15 years, he's been in law firms, using value-based pricing, and now subscription pricing. John swims in the ocean every morning with his Speedo around his neck. Pricing for law firms or even major consultancy firms is not easy. Price your final client contracts too high, and you’ll lose some of your most high-value clients. Price them too low, and you’ll be forced to work too few staff to the bone to cut costs. In this episode, John shares how law firm should approach their pricing strategy. Why you have to check out today’s podcast: Discover how to create a pricing revenue model that funds a thriving firm while generating real value for clients Learn how to make your law firm and consultancy clients understand the value of your service and the risks they are avoiding by hiring you compared to your competitors by communicating the value you provide Discover why a pricing expert is essential to the profitability of any law firm “Just don't price your own work.” – John Chisholm Topics Covered: 01:06 – How John got into pricing: His late father’s story in relation to legal service fees 03:06 – Doing timesheet free billing as a law firm in the 1970s to ‘80s 05:25 – The old law business model of billing by the hour 06:38 – How things led him to his aha moment in relation to the practice of pricing 10:37 – Changing the mindset around pricing: Possible or not? 15:48 – “The true indication of a really good professional is not so much the answers they give; it's the questions they ask” 19:24 – Having a value conversation around $500 vs. $270’s worth 22:15 – John’s pricing advice 23:31 – Pricing table topics: “Sunk costs don't matter to pricing or any business decision” Key Takeaways: “Now it's very, very ingrained – the whole profession, I'm afraid. There has been a lot of movement, but they've been mainly in smaller, innovative firms. But the large firms, despite what they say, when you peel back the onion, the measurements, their rewards, their whole internal systems still work around time, and it's hard to change, and they're very successful.” – John Chisholm “I know I’ll get into trouble for saying this, but lawyers buying and selling to each other is not a great recipe for innovation or change or taking risk.” – John Chisholm “Those that perceive they have the most to lose will be the last to change, and that will be the big end of town worldwide.” – John Chisholm “I try and get the lawyers that I work with my clients to stop thinking like lawyers, because often, the solution is not a legal solution; it really isn't, or the objectives are not a legal solution. It may be that what we're going to do has legal input, and that's the skills that the lawyers have that someone else doesn't have. But it's turning the conversation on its head. It's asking the right questions. And I think the true indication of a really good professional is not so much the answers they give; it's the questions they ask.” – John Chisholm “I work more with my client lawyers focusing on what additional benefits can you give to clients, many of which don't cost anything to the law firm but add value to the client; the price just follows. I think also, if you can focus on increasing the client's profit, our profit will follow as a profession.” – John Chisholm “I think even though it might be for short term profitability, there's just so many good lawyers that just do underestimate the value that they're providing to their clients, and that's their fault, not their client's fault.” – John Chisholm People / Resources Mentioned: Ron Baker: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ronbaker1/ VeraSage Institute: https://www.verasage.com/ John Chisholm Consulting: https://www.chisconsult.com/ Connect with John Chisholm: Email: firstname.lastname@example.org Website: https://www.chisconsult.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chisholmjohn/ Connect with Mark Stiving: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/ Email: email@example.com
ACTA's VP of Academic Affairs, Jonathan Pidluzny, interviews entrepreneur and business leader John Dana Chisholm about the concept of holistic diversity and its potential to influence higher education policy. Mr. Chisholm is a member of the Free Speech Alliance at Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and was previously a member of the MIT Corporation (or board of trustees). He has four decades of experience as entrepreneur, CEO, and investor, having founded and served as Chairman/CEO of Decisive Technology (now part of Google), and of CustomerSat (now part of FocusVision), a leading provider of enterprise feedback management systems. These days he heads up John Chisholm Ventures, a San Francisco-based entrepreneurship advisory and investment firm. He is the author of Unleash Your Inner Company: 10 Steps to Discover, Launch, and Scale Your Ideal Business.
John Chisholm on Aiming at the Right “Diversity” in Higher Ed
Philosophy For Flourishing
Jon speaks with John Chisholm—entrepreneur, investor, and author—about the problems with the higher ed push for “diversity” and how to correct it. Subscribe in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you’re listening right now. Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/objectivestandard Twitter: https://twitter.com/ObjStdInstitute LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/objectivestandardinstitute/ Email Jon at firstname.lastname@example.org with questions, comments, or topic suggestions. Also check out: “Achieving Holistic Diversity & Inclusion at MIT” by John Chisholm: www.johnchisholmventures.com/dei “Achieving Holistic Diversity & Inclusion at a Major Research University” by John Chisholm: www.johnchisholmventures.com/deipres Unleash Your Inner Company by John Chisholm: https://amzn.to/3a1HphD “How to Challenge Racism in College Admissions” by Jon Hersey: https://theobjectivestandard.com/2018/10/how-to-challenge-racism-in-college-admissions/
How Startups and Innovation Benefit from Preserving Employment Freedom for Independent Workers - with John Chisholm
The modern workforce is changing. Technology is making it easier for people of all education, skills, and income levels to be part of the sharing economy as independent contractors. Yet, several regulatory and legislative initiatives expose the long-term viability of this working arrangement and the benefits it provides. In this episode, John Chisholm, entrepreneur, CEO, and investor, shares his perspectives on how essential independent contractors are for startups and innovation and how the current legislative and regulatory actions affect the innovation climate.
Episode 212 – Defining your success both in law and in life with with John Chisholm
The Happy Lawyer Happy Life Podcast
In this week’s episode of the ‘Happy Lawyer Happy Life Podcast’ I had the pleasure of interviewing the wonderful John Chisholm. John aptly describes himself these days as a ‘recovering lawyer’ but I soon came to learn that his passion for the profession is deeply ingrained. John is a third generation lawyer, and you might say followed a family legacy that has been built across 60 years and started with John’s Grandfather at the firm Maddocks. It is clear that John has achieved incredible success in his career in law- from Articled Clerk to Managing Partner at one of the country’s largest firms but it was John’s definition of and perspective on the concept of success that had me intrigued in this conversation. John left private practice in 2004 and since that time has been consulting to firms all around the world and is a leader in law firm innovation. John’s passion for abolishing the billable hour, rethinking the markers of success in law businesses and building a sustainable future for lawyers has driven his career this past decade and I can personally say his influence on so many of us who are following in his footsteps will mean that his legacy will live for many decades to come. And I would call John a happy lawyer- even if it hasn’t always been that way- and I suspect is has been his wife, family and health that keep him that way. In this interview, John and I also chatted about- If John was not a lawyer he would have been an artist. Creativity, the law and the benefits creative activities have on our mental wellbeing. John grew up in Victoria, as the eldest of 4 boys, with a father who was a second-generation lawyer. John’s journey into law and how becoming an articled clerk in his father’s firm influenced his career. Law firm Maddocks in the 1970s, and how it has changed over the past 40 years. John shares his broader definition of success in the law. John’s experience of the technological changes on the legal profession across his career. The drivers of change in law and how busyness and technological changes have impacted the wellbeing of lawyers. Gender and opportunities previously held in the law and the barriers which have been broken. Multi-disciplinary law and our client’s perspective of the profession. The role of non-lawyers in law firms. The highlights of John’s 9 years as a managing partner at Maddocks at the beginning of his career. John describes himself as a ‘recovering lawyer’ and his choice to step away in 2005 to find clarity in life. How John fell into the world of consulting and why he made this shift within the legal space. Value pricing and John’s passion for this style of billing and how it led into his full-time career. A whole of business shift is required to move away from the billable hour. Profitability and the perception of profit and success. John’s mentors and their influence on how John saw success as a lawyer and a person. The benchmark of success, comparisons and competition between legal firms. John’s tips for lawyers stepping into the law and how to find fulfilment in their careers. To be a great lawyer you need to enjoy life and John shares his life outside the law. The positive life changes that COVID has had on John’s life, (and mine!). John share the importance of boundaries. And finally, John refers us to Ralph Waldo Emerson’s definition of success: “To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children; … to appreciate beauty, to find the best in others; to leave the world a little better; whether by a healthy child or a garden patch … to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is success.” Sit back and enjoy this interview with John Chisholm. *** Learn more here about upcoming events and courses and connect with Clarissa Rayward at the ‘Happy Lawyer Happy Life’ knowledge centre- A community for lawyers who want to make the best out of their life in and outside of the law. Listen to last week’s episode here The post Episode 212 – Defining your success both in law and in life with with John Chisholm appeared first on The Happy Family Lawyer.
Unleash Your Inner Company - John Chisholm - Profit Talks #07
John Chisholm is a technology entrepreneur and angel investor in the Silicon Valley. He founded the online software companies Decisive Technology, now a part of Google, and Customer Sat, now part of Confirmit. He is a trustee of MIT and the Santa Fe Institute, and past President and Chair of the worldwide MIT Alumni Association. He is also an advisor of Hayek Global College. We talk about John´s greatest challenge in life which was leading his tech company through the dot.com bust crisis, about how passion and perseverance work together to develop entrepreneurship, how discovering a customer´s goal is more important than listening to him, how you should never verbalize on your weaknesses and much more! John´s book, Unleash Your Inner Company, is rated very highly in Amazon: https://www.amazon.com./Unleash-Your-Inner-Company Check out our courses: https://www.hayekcollege.com/courses Follow our social networks: Telegram https://t.me/hayekcollege Whatsapp https://bit.ly/hayekwhats Instagram https://www.instagram.com/hayekcollege/ Facebook https://www.facebook.com/HayekCollege LinkedIn
E6: Beyond the Billable Hour - John Chisholm, Former CEO of Maddox, Middletons and Co-Founder of Innovim Group
The Leading Lawyer Project with Sam Burrett
Is there a better way to run law firms? How can we deliver more value to our clients without being trapped by timekeeping? How can we create happier clients and more profitable firms? These are some of the questions that John Chisholm, a former lawyer and leader of law firms, has been working on for the last decade and a half. John has consulted with some of Australia's most innovative law firms and authored thought-leadership about pricing that has changed the way many firms operate.In this episode of the Leading Lawyer Project we cover:John's journey from the son of a lawyer to Managing Partner of a law firm;The differences between lawyers of the '70s, '80s, 90s and now;Becoming a leader of lawyers vs being a lawyer;The key skillsets for managing lawyers (hint - it's not an MBA);Leaving the law...and returning;Importing ideas from other organizations and industries into law firms;The ethics of the billable hour;Inefficiencies in hourly billing;OldLaw and NewLawThe most inspiring NewLaw leaders;What young lawyers can do to contribute to the future of law.You can find more about John here:The Innovim website;The John Chisholm Consulting WebsiteJohn's LinkedIn profileOther links:I'd love if you could leave a review and a rating wherever you listen to your podcasts! It makes a huge difference and helps people find the show.Subscribe to The Leading Lawyer Project on iTunesConnect with me on LinkedIn Have an idea for the podcast, a guest you'd love to hear from, or an idea for me to explore? Drop me a line here: email@example.com
Managing Working Relationships with John Chisholm (Ep. 104)
On Fire with Linda Fields
Don't you just love difficult conversations?... Me neither!! Thankfully we have my good friend John Chisholm with the insight that God has downloaded in him to help us discover the principles of how to have successful, "difficult" conversations. This is part of being a Spiritual Professional! Learn more about John Chisholm at his website www.johnchisholm.com Find his book in the Forerunner Bookstore website, or stop by the store if you're in the Kansas City area!
How do I know what to charge? A pricing Q&A with John Chisholm (ep 38)
Doing Law Differently
Back in episode 32 (before the coronacrisis hit!) I spoke about the what, why and how of fixed and value pricing. That episode was so popular that it sent the podcast back into the top 10 of the Apple Podcast charts! I put out a call for your questions on all things pricing and in this episode I’m tackling those questions along with pricing expert, John Chisholm. From understanding value and working out what to charge to measuring staff performance, we’ve got all your FAQs covered! John Chisholm describes himself as a “recovering lawyer”. He’s spent the last 15 years urging lawyers not only to stop billing their services by time, but to also burn their timesheets. He works with professionals to assist them with a mindset change and the practical implementation of value-based pricing. John is a Senior Fellow at the VeraSage institute, and co-founder of The Innovim Group, an organisation which runs aligned pricing programs and helps firms with their pricing transformation. Here’s the questions we tackle: 2:56 John’s view on fixed pricing: yes or no? 4:53 What is menu pricing? 5:53 How do I work out the value of my service? 8:10 What kind of questions should we ask to understand value from the client’s perspective? 11:58 How do you decide the price? 15:00 Can or should we still record time? 18:54 How do you know breakeven? 22:55 How do you avoid falling back to calculating by hours worked? 26:25 What KPIs do firms track to work out employee bonuses if they’re not tracking time? 28:08 Can you offer both fixed and timed pricing? 22:54 For standardised services, should law firms put prices up on their websites? 37:48 When you commit to value pricing what other areas of your business also change? Thanks to Legalite! This episode is brought to you by Legalite Horizons, a new model giving principal-level lawyers the platform to grow their practice while being fully supported. Join a recognised, award-winning law firm with access to infrastructure and support. Best of all, you’ll get to keep the lions share of what you bill and enjoy complete freedom to run your practice the way you want. Find out more here or listen back to episode 24 with Marianne Marchesi here. Links Listen back to episode 32 – The what, why and how of fixed and value pricing Download your copy of my new e-book, 80 tips to make your law firm survive and thriveConnect with John Chisolm via LinkedIn, The Innovim Group and VeraSage InstituteSubscribe to Doing Law Differently on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts or SpotifyConnect with me on LinkedInAre you keen to share how you’re Doing Law Differently? Get in touch here. The post How do I know what to charge? A pricing Q&A with John Chisholm (ep 38) appeared first on Lucy Dickens.
John Chisholm: “We laid off 40% of the company I’d spent the last three years of my life building”
How I Got Here
In this episode, we spoke with John Chisholm, serial entrepreneur, angel investor, and author of Unleash Your Inner Company: Use Passion and Perseverance to Build Your Ideal Business. John tells us about how an early setback in his career, getting fired from his job, eventually led him to build and grow a company that is part of Google today. He also describes how he persevered through the dotcom bust, taking a $300,000 personal loan and putting his house as collateral to keep his company afloat.--- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/howigothere/support