Chad Carson is an entrepreneur, writer, and teacher who used real estate investing to reach financial independence before the age of 37. Soon after he traveled with his wife and two kids to live in Cuenca, Ecuador for 17 months. Chad also wrote a best-selling book Retire Early With Real Estate and hosts the popular podcast Real Estate & Financial Independence. When not writing about himself in 3rd person, vying for the silliest dad award, playing pick-up basketball, or publishing in-depth posts and podcasts at coachcarson.com, Chad enjoys volunteering with a local non-profit he co-founded to create a network of walking and bike paths in his hometown of Clemson, SC. In this episode, Chad shares with us what he means by Do What Matters. He realized what he was after was time currency more than anything to create the ideal day he longed for. This episode is full of great tips on getting started, taking action, finding a mentor, working with a money partner, etc. It's got everything! Enjoy!
Economic Alliance Vice President Chad Carson – Season 6 Episode 72 – Gulf Coast Growth Show
The Gulf Coast Growth Show
Brought to you by the Economic Alliance Houston Port RegionProduced in the Shell Deer Park StudioFor more information log on to www.allianceportregion.comFeedback? Email our marketing team at email@example.com
Upstate Mobility Alliance - Chad Carson of the Green Crescent Trail
Ten at the Top Podcast
The Upstate Mobility Alliance is a coalition of public, private, and community partners who are committed to fulfilling the Upstate Mobility Vision. The ultimate success for the Alliance will be an Upstate region with greater access to transportation choices for all residents and easy movement of people and goods across the region. Accomplishing this vision will take a commitment to build cross-sector and cross-jurisdictional partnerships and a collective voice that champions bold thinking and a willingness to challenge the status quo through support and investment in innovative initiatives that enhance mobility in the region.
#41 Retire Early With Real Estate with Chad Carson
The Gold Crown Podcast
Chad Carson is the author of Retire Early with Real Estate published by Bigger Pockets (one of my top 5 favorite books of all time. I consider it a MUST read). The book beautifully ties together the concepts of early retirement and real estate investing for newbies. Many of those featured in the book hit financial independence at age 28-40! Coach Carson's family is full of dentists, and as a result he is able to provide very specific knowledge that many dentists need on investing in real estate. Be sure to visit him at his youtube channel where he provides free education below: https://www.youtube.com/user/CoachChadCarson www.thegoldcrownpodcast.com firstname.lastname@example.org
Chad Carson Follow-up Interview: Progress on His Property Renovation
Handyman Pros Radio Show
We follow up with Chad Carson from Coach Carson.com. If you remember, we had Chad on several months ago to discuss a remodel of a 100 year old property. Chad is a successful real estate investor, Podcaster, You-tuber, and author, who teaches real estate investing. In our first interview, the project was underway, this episode is the follow up to completion of that project. We discuss the challenges of a major remodel including building schedule, cost considerations, hiring a General Contractor, covid, and several other issues. Join our facebook group @handyman pros or send us an email, email@example.com--- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/handymanpros/message
52. Retire Early With Real Estate and Do What Matters With Chad Carson
House Hacking Success
In this episode Chad Carson, the BiggerPockets best selling author of Retire Early With Real Estate, brings his amazing perspective on not only real estate, but on life. We talk about using your investments to do what truly matters most to you with his slogan of "Do what matters." He shares how he started off house hacking a four-plex, built a large portfolio before and during the 2008 recession. He talks about how you shouldn't predict the market, but rather be prepared for whatever the market does! We also talk about his upcoming course this spring! Our host Bradley LaBrie went through it 4 years ago and it completely changed his real estate investing business. Chad is offering three free webinars that will discuss the course, what you will learn and how it can propel your business! Sign up in the link below to make sure you attend!Click here to sign up for the FREE workshop hosted by Chad Carson!To sign up for Chad's Real Estate Start School click here!!Show sponsors: Rentometer - Rentometer lets you analyze rent on your property!RentRedi - Manage your property with this property management software. Use code "SUCCESS" to get 50% off!!Click here to sign up for the FREE workshop hosted by Chad Carson!To sign up for Chad's Real Estate Start School click here!!
REI056: Warren Buffett Style Real Estate Investing with Chad Carson
Millennial Investing - The Investor’s Podcast Network
In this episode, Coach Chad Carson joins us again to talk about an important article he wrote for BiggerPockets on making sure your investment goals are in line with your life goals. Link to article: https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/go-small-or-go-home Link to Chad's website: https://www.coachcarson.com/ --- Transcript Michael: Hey everybody. Welcome to another episode of The Remote Real Estate Investor. I'm Michael Albaum and today I'm joined by my co host, Emil Shour. We have a very special guest with us today. Chad Carson is joining us again, and Chad's going to be talking to us today about his article that he wrote for BiggerPockets. Why the Massive Real Estate Empire you think you want won't give you the life you imagine? So let's get into it. Chad Carson, thanks so much for coming back on the podcast, man, we so appreciate you taking the time out of your busy schedule to hang out with this. Chad: Happy to do it. Thanks for asking me back. Michael: No, of course, of course. So you wrote an article that got published on BiggerPockets. And we're gonna link to that in the show notes. But the article is called why the massive real estate Empire you think you want won't give you the life you imagine? So we're gonna have you read an excerpt from this article. But I would love to know to kick things off. What made you write this article was kind of your inspiration. Chad: Yeah, I wrote a lot on bigger pockets I haven't written as much lately, but also wrote a book for bigger pockets. And so I just I love the ecosystem of BiggerPockets. I love the team behind the scenes. It's just a great service to real estate investors and was immersed in a lot of that, though, I think I heard a common refrain. And it's not necessarily a bad thing. But a lot of the podcasts, a lot of the articles you read the ones that really stood out, were the ones talking about get as big as you can, you need to syndicate, you need to get it 1000s of units. And that was exciting. I guess it makes you know, my podcast hosts your podcast, it makes exciting, you know, headlines when you have this person who bought 50 properties in one year. And that's amazing. But as I thought about it, like the people I knew, both in like the non famous people, nobody even knows who they are, but they have tons of lifestyle, and they have flexibility. And they do what matters to them. A lot of these people had like five properties or three properties, and they had paid them off. And they were really simple. And it was nothing to write home about supposedly. But if you measure things a little bit differently, it actually was pretty incredible. And so I wrote the article to try to tell that story and to explain kind of my point of view on that. And the headline was, you know, go small or go home, because the Grant Cardones of the world are saying you need to 10x otherwise you're no good, you know. He in particular, you know, maybe I get Grant Cardone on my show one day and have a discussion. Michael: Have a chat with him. Chad: Yeah. But I wanted to be kind of the the foil to that not because that's wrong, not because people shouldn't get big and go big. Like, I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is all of us who think keeping things simple, and going small, is just perfectly fine and actually preferred. I wanted to give a voice to that for those people and make an argument, why that's actually a better thing, in many ways. Michael: Michael: Awesome. Love it. Emil: I love that I stumbled on this and like the perfect time because I was starting to have that internal conflict where I'm like, man, am I just not thinking big enough? Like, I think this is what I want. But you see it everywhere, like you mentioned, like everyone's saying, Oh, I just took down 100 units here. And he starts to be like, is that what I need to do to be successful? And I love that this reframes that. So yeah. Chad: Yeah. Michael: All right. So let's jump into a chat if you want to kick us off here and tell us this a story of three real estate investors. Chad: All right, great. Yeah, I'm gonna get my place here. So a story of three real estate investors. And I got to give a little background to this before I start reading it, because I actually got this story from other people, as many stories come from actually a real estate investor named Jack Miller, who was a teacher for many years, he's now passed away, but he was a really good teacher. And I used to go to seminars with him early on in my career, and pretty sure I got the story from him. He probably got it from somebody else as well, but I adapted it for my own purposes. The story goes that there were one summer there were three real estate investors, and they were their couples. And they traveled together to Europe and these investors that originally met each other as beginner investors in the BiggerPockets forum, and they liked each other a lot. And they helped each other kind of grow along the way. And so they became friends. And then about 15 years later, they each had experience some success with the real estate business, and they wanted to kind of go and enjoy the fruits of all of their efforts, because why not? Right, so they decided to go spend 14 days together visiting the Mediterranean coast. First they were going to go explore some ancient cities in Italy, like enjoying some amazing foods and good wine perhaps. And then they were going to continue with a high quality kind of a Mediterranean cruise that would stop at Croatia and Greece. And they even go to one of my friends. Another bigger pockets author, his home country Arian Shehi lives in. It was from Albania has family still in Albania. He's from there originally. So another cool place. So could these investors afford a nice trip like this? So you can imagine going to Italy and go on the Mediterranean coast? Well, let's take a look at the financial scoreboard to see how they could afford it using their real estate. So couple number one was Liz and Tom and they are in their 50s and they live invest in self manage their properties in Missouri in the state of Missouri, and over the last 15 years they've bought 10 single family houses one by one and good neighborhoods. Liz and Tom search hard to buy these houses as fixer uppers. So they needed some work, they were able to buy them below value because of that. And they use the BRRRR strategy to recoup most of their cash on each deal. So they would kind of recycle their cash, buy another deal, fix it up, get it rented, do another deal. And then they would use what's called the Debt Snowball technique to pay off their mortgages early. That's something I talk a lot about as well. So they started with a BRRRR, they got loans, they paid off their debt. And so now their houses produce $7,000 per month, or $84,000 per year in positive cash flow. So that's number one. Number two, Tiffany and Darius are in their early 40s. They live in New York, and they invest in North Carolina using a property manager. And 15 years after they started, they now own 150 unit apartment building, Tiffany and Darius began with smaller properties. And then they used a 1031 exchange. So a tax free exchange to kind of trade up from the smaller properties into these bigger properties until they had enough equity for a down payment on that the big 50 unit building. So they have 50 unit building has a solid fixed interest, 25 year mortgage. And the property itself after paying all their expenses produces $10,000 per month or $120,000 per year in positive cash flow. So that's couple number two. Couple number three is Mike and Martin. And they're in their late 40s. They live in Nevada, and they own properties all over the country. 15 years after they started, they now have 500 units, Mike and Lauren began with their their rentals, but they because of their ability to put together great deals. They also began syndicating deals by pooling money from other people. So they were the general partner and they they recruited money from other people, their portion of the rental income equals over $30,000 per month, or $360,000 per year, their portfolio produces the most money out of all three couples. So it's pretty clear to see we got into the weeds there. But all three couples can easily afford to pay for this nice European vacation. You know, money is not the issue. This is exactly why all of them began investing in the first place. But the story it gets a little more interesting as they approach the end of this trip. So let's extend the trip a little bit. By the end of this trip. All three couples have had a fabulous time. It's been great so far. In fact, a couple number one, Liz and Tom propose, hey, let's all stay a few weeks longer. You know, there's a lot more to explore here. We're already here. Why don't we just do that Liz and Tom's rentals are full of self reliant tenants who automatically deposit their rent each month. And the tenants can email or leave a voicemail with any kind of maintenance emergencies if they come up, but this rarely happens and with no debt or immediate plans to buy more properties, their business schedule is amazingly flexible. Couple number two Tiffany and derrius. They check their calendars. They have a few community and church functions, but they can put those off until later. So their property manager is very competent and in control the day to day issues on their 50 unit building. And because there's no major financing or remodeling projects looming, they happily agree to stay over as well. But a couple of number three, Mike and Lauren have some challenges they want to stay and can easily afford the expensive extending the trip. But there are projects looming back at home. Remodeling contractors are waiting for their guidance on some recent value add apartment purchases they made, a new property manager needs to be found to replace them underperforming on with some of their units. Their corporate bookkeeper and administrator need help some of their equity investors want to meet with them to discuss some past and future projects. As a result, Mike and Lauren regretfully declined the vacation extension. So this kind of leads me to one of the main points of this is the myth of the passive big business. Mike and Lauren do not have a bad business. In fact, it's financially the most successful business of the three investors. But here are the questions I always ask to the Mike and Lauren's of the world. Did your investment business meet your true goals? Are you spending your time doing what's most important to you, and what alternative approaches have met your goals just as well with less hassle and less risk along the way? Because it's possible that Mike and Lauren are happy with the current situation that they are like more power to him, I'm happy for him. But my experience has shown that many people in their situation are less than happy. The extra money that they have, has come at a cost. And I'm sure I can get examples from all sorts of people listening to this with comments about Shark Tank hosts and famous entrepreneurs and BP you know, bigger pockets, podcast guests and other people on the podcast who've built really big businesses that also check all of those goals off the list. Now I'm sure they're out there. And it's fine to provide those successful examples. But the bottom line is you the person listening to this? What are your goals? And what's the best way to achieve them? Are you a shark tank host? Or are you just a regular person like me, and who's trying to free yourself from the nine to five grind so that you can live an extraordinary life. So I know a lot of real estate investors. I know a lot of entrepreneurs, and at least in my experience, the ones with the most money, have big businesses. If that's your number one metric like go for it. Go for the big business. But the ones I know the most free time, if that's what you want, the most flexibility are the ones that have, and also the ones that have less stress, have smaller, simpler businesses and portfolios. And interestingly, I don't see these smaller investors worrying that they have a smaller net worth than the big investors. It seems they're too busy enjoying their life. Michael: Ah, it's so good. Emil: So good, so much better when Chad reads it for us. Michael: It really hits quite differently. Emil: Yeah. Chad: Yeah. Michael: So Chad, is this something that you've applied to your life? Have you always known this? Or is this something that you came across kind of later in your investing career? Chad: Now like, I'm the kind of person has to get smacked upside the head by anything. So I don't want to act like I've got any, like prior knowledge here. A brief version of my story was in 2007, my business partner and I were like, kind of following that path a little bit, you know, like the, hey, let's get bigger and bigger is better. You know, just honestly, it was like looking at goals of other investors who we admired. Like, we admire these people, they were really good. And there was fun, and I'm, I played sports in life. I'm a competitor, like, I think it's fun to go compete for something. And it's, so we did the same thing. And we were we had in 2007 39, closings, some of those closings had, and those are all acquisitions closings. And some of those are multiple properties. You know, like some multi unit apartments. Some of those are flips, or buying, fixing, and flipping. Some of them are buy and hold rentals. But we were like, really, really busy. But we kind of took a step back, and I have to give credit to my business partner has my 50-50 business partner who we've been together from the very beginning. And he kind of pushed back on it more than I did, saying, like, wait a minute, like, we're so busy. And we've made some money this year. But what are we trying to accomplish here? Like, where are we really like moving towards the goals? And we actually sat down and had like a kind of Heart to Heart business meeting where we each wrote down on a piece of paper, like, what are the things that are really most important to us? Or more specifically, like, what would we spend our time doing? If money were no object is such a good exercise, I encourage everybody to do it. And the kinds of things I wrote down at that time is a 27 year old, and I just got married that year, where I wanted to go play basketball, pick up basketball in the middle of the day, for two hours, I wanted to go hiking in the woods with my wife, I wanted to travel abroad and do some things like that. Now some of those costs money, like traveling abroad cost some money, but like playing pickup basketball for two hours, hiking in the middle of the day, like that cost zero money, but the biggest limitation was how much free time and flexibility I had. And at that time, I did not have flexibility and free time. And I was like, wait a minute, like, what am I doing here? It sort of reminded us and again, get my credit my business partner, and also maybe reading books, like the four hour workweek, I think kind of hit me upside the head a little bit too, you are in control of how you build your business. There's no, nobody telling you, you have to buy a certain number of units. There's nobody telling you how to run it a certain way. Like you are the architect of your business. And how you build that real estate business will determine how much free time and flexibility you have. So it's up to me, it's up to you to be able to do that. Michael: That's so good. It's so good. Emil: When you came to that realization, did you put a new goal in place? like okay, here's the goal. And I'm always curious about like, the way this kind of happens for me is I set a goal, we reach it. And then like anyone who's kind of Type A the goalpost changes. All right. Now he did that. What's next? And so like, I'm just curious how you've dealt with that over the years? Chad: Yeah, I'm the same way. I think we all are this, like the hedonic treadmill idea, I think just built into our psychology is that we get to something or like, Oh, that was nice. Let me get the next piece of candy. You know, like, it's just what we do. But I found something that I don't know where I read this or heard about it that but if you make goals for experiences, and transformation, those actually tend to last a little bit more, or at least you had the memories of them. And I think it was from the four hour workweek that kind of inspired me to start taking some mini retirements. And so we actually made a goal my wife and I did to travel abroad, like, let's not wait, we're old to do this, like, we had the money like we were saving money, we live frugally. We're making good money. And it was more about just I need to like, build some systems into this business in order for us to be able to travel for multiple months at a time. It took us a while It took us like a year, year and a half to really detach ourselves from some of the things that we had going on to build systems in the business where I had some other people doing things that I was doing prior previously. And then also just working with my business partner to say, Alright, what systems Am I running? What systems are you running? How can we automate this? How can we do some things remotely into 2007? We kind of had the aha moment. 2008 and then 2009. In August 2009, my wife and I went on a kind of our first big mini retirement where we got the backpacks out, went to Spain for six weeks, I learned to speak Spanish, she was already fluent in Spanish. And then we it was a little higher dollar in Spain. We loved in Spain, but we also wanted to go to South America. So we flew back and went to Peru and stay there for a month in order to keep up Peru and just loved it. And that's where I really learned to speak Spanish at that point. And then we traveled down to LA and hiked around in Patagonia kind of southern tip of South America. Then came back up to Buenos Aries and spent some time there and along the way met so many amazing people, other people traveling other people who lived there locally. It was one of those like for a type a person, you know, like one of those experiences where like physically like about eight weeks into that trip I felt like a not like untied in my chest where I was like, wait a minute, like I didn't realize that not was even tied. And now the thing is, I'm tying in Latin America in particular for me, this has a special place because I feel like there's a there's just a kind of ethos of connection with other people and relationships in the value of slowing down. We Americans do not always appreciate that like there and probably other places in the world as well appreciate the value of slowness and deliberateness. That trip for me was kind of transformational because it got me hooked on that. And it got me hooked on, Emil, like goals that are more difficult to quantify but so much more impactful on on who you are and on your life. Michael: Just quick side note, I'm so glad that you mentioned that you really learned Spanish when you were in down in Peru and say holy crap six weeks in Spain and you learn Spanish, like know how embarrassing for me? Chad: No, not at all. I mean, I was doing a little bit there. But I'd taken one semester in college and I spoke German in college. So I kind of had one foreign language that helped when you learn the second one is a little bit easier. But right, I hasn't really say that I speak Spanish because it's like, up and down. And I was very fluent then sure. And since then we went Ecuador, and I got better. And it just, I still have my gringo accent. And I still, Michael: Of course, of course. Chad: But I have a Spanish teacher at home who can who can correct me luckily. Michael: Perfect. It's funny, because I had a bit of a similar smack upside the head to you in that I have a good friend of mine who's really become more of a mentor. And he's a young gun like me. And he's like growing, growing, growing, growing as fast as he can and recommend doing the same thing. And he's like, 1000 units. That's where I'm at. And then I have another very close friend who's 66. So he's quite a bit older in his career. And he's like, dude, like, is this in line with your life plan and life goals? I was like, I didn't even think to ask that question when I started, because all he could see was right in front of my face, like grow, grow, grow, this is what I can do now this what I can do now. And I'm hitting this running after this unit count in this cash flow count, not even thinking about what is this mean for my life? I think it's so important to take a step back, even when you're just beginning even if you do have the ability to grow, grow, grow. But stop and ask yourself for every single question is this aligned with my life plan and goals. Chad: It’s also the pace. One thing I wrote about in the article that I didn't mention here, just that we didn't talk about is the pace at which you grow, you know, it took you 30 years to get 1000 units versus taking you five years to get 1000 units. Those are two different like scenarios, because you probably have to have a different relationship with debt, a different relationship with leverage different relationship with just speed and pace. There's nothing wrong with growing but even if your ambition is growing is like how are you doing? Are you doing in a way that I compared to like climbing a mountain, like if you want to climb Mount Everest, my wife and I tried to do this one time we were in a canyon, like climbing a canyon and South America going down and I was like, you know, oh, we've got this. We're like hiking all the time. And I went fast all the way back up. And I almost passed out like because I went way too fast. And I you know, didn't have enough water and dehydration. And I compare that the same thing. If you were a professional mountain climber, you wouldn't just go straight to the top of Mount Everest like you would go up climatized little bit, come back down, go up a little bit more climatized. And I think that's a more reasonable approach to business as well, it but it requires something that very few of us, myself included, have a hard time with his patience. He gotta be patient, and be willing to just plug along, hike slowly. That's so difficult. It is For me. Michael: It is so difficult, especially when you have the means and you think you have the ability or the bandwidth or what have you. You're like, Oh, it's right here. It's so easy. I'm, I'm already doing this. So what's another project? What's one more project with one more project, it becomes very easy. Again. Yeah, Emil is laughing. Emil: Ask Michael how he knows! Michael: It's really scary. And it kind of can overwhelm you. And I talked about this on prior episodes. But I left my nine to five engineering job last August in 2019. And that first week that I didn't have a job, I was the busiest I've ever been in my entire life. And it's because I was taking on project after project after project thinking I could handle it. And it just it Yeah, it really consumes you. And so I have very hardly adapted since then that I think smaller is better. And I love Love, love that you talked about the debt snowball. I think that often hits people upside the head pretty quickly. And like Oh, you mean I don't have to go buy 15, 20, 30 units, I can just focus on the 6,7,8,9 I have and pay those off and get the same result. I think it's pretty eye opening. Emil: In the article. There's this image that you have at the top of the article called the fulfillment curve and it shows like fulfillment going up is you have survival comfort, small luxuries and at the top you have like a star saying enough. And then it starts to come down and says clutter complexity and hassle. I think for a lot of people who invest in real estate who, by their nature are super frugal and don't even like like spending money. Yeah, you can grow, you can expand things, but most likely, we're all just gonna be like chipmunks storing more money in the bank. Chad: Yeah, I gotta give credit for that. And I actually got permission to use that in the book I wrote retire early with real estate from Binky Robin, your money or your life, probably my favorite financial books, people haven't read that it's kind of an old school book, this, they've got a new version A few years ago, the concept of that enough, like, it's kind of like patience, you know, it's one of the typical things to get with money. And the filmmaker you're mentioning, if you think about the free first $100 you earn right out of college, or right out of high school or something like that. $100 will buy you like tons of pizza, it'll buy you like, you know, a little bit of value food, it can get you some clothes, Michael: Numerous beers, Chad: Yeah, you're gonna get a lot of satisfaction out of that person. $100, right. But if you fast forward that and you keep going up more and more, you're going to get to a point, this is difficult to find that point. But there's a point where every extra dollar you get is going to mean, you're gonna have to work a little bit longer, you're going to have to buy extra, you're going to be buying more stuff is going to complicate your life, you're going to get boats, you're going to get cars, you're going to end, now that you have this fancy car, you're going to be worried about somebody running by it one day with a key and like scratching your fancy car. And there's just it comes with worry, it comes with anxiety. Some of the philosophers like Henry David Thoreau, who I really admire, like the transcendentalist. And Emerson, if you look at some of them, and the stoics, and the Roman stoics, they were about being happy with what you have, and finding the place, that's enough for you. And very often, they would say, like money and wealth is an obstacle like to being happy being fulfilled, that you actually feel like you have enough. And that's another thing I've just admired in my own travels, like you meet some people who you stay with, and their guest house or whatever, with a lot less money than you, but you talk to them and see how much joy they have and see how generous they are. You don't need a lot of money to do that. And when you think about the people you really admire in your life, the most generous and who are the most happy and bring the most joy to your life? You know, there's a disconnect. It has nothing to do with money. Again, not something I'm perfect with. But it's at least challenged me to think about, like, where does money fit into that relationship by Why do I need money, I need money to take care of the necessities, I need money to make this comfortable. Like I want us to live in a house that's warm, and I want us to live in a place that's safe. So of course, but when you get beyond that, when you start getting the biggest house and you start getting five houses, when you start to live in and you start getting the nicest cars, there's no doubt there's some baggage that goes along with those that I think at least from my own life makes me even less happy. Michael: I think you touched on something previously that our circle back to in that when you put goals and ambitions around experiences, rather than material things or dollar amounts. I think it's lasting longer as I think the way you said it. And I totally agree. I also think that is kind of a good thought experiment and exercise you should write down you know what it is that you want to do for a year, if you could walk away from your job for your What do you want to do, and then figure out how much that costs. And I think people will be shocked to recognize and realize, well, a lot of the money that they're earning is going away to taxes anyhow. So if you're earning money through passive income, you don't need as much as you're currently making. And it might not cost as much as you think it is to live and do whatever it is that you're looking to do for a year or two years or what have you. So that's something that I'm gonna have to sit down and do as well, because I think it is pretty eye opening. Chad: When you have free time. Like it totally changes your relationship with money as well. Just think about one specific example. Let's say you had the next three months completely free, you could do whatever you wanted to do. And you really didn't have an agenda on where you wanted to travel. Like let's say post COVID, we can actually travel, I'm just itching to do you know, there are deals every day where you can get a flight for 200 bucks to someplace that should cost 1500 bucks to fly to. And if you just like to say you spin a wheel said I'm just gonna go wherever the $200 flight is. Michael: Airport roulette. Chad: Yeah, like, you can just say, I'm just going like, bingo, I'm going to Singapore, I'm going to you know, wherever it is, because that's the kind of thing you can do. And you have flexibility of time. And most people do their budgets based on this busy work lifestyle where they're working 5060 hours a week, they have two weeks of vacation per year, they have to go in those specific two weeks, and they have to fly the certain times. Man, when you give yourself a year, a year and a half to do whatever you want to do, the cost of things totally changes. Because if it costs a lot of money to go there, all right, I'll just wait for how does take my time, or I'll just go to a different place or I'll get there a different way. And it's a totally different mindset. And that's kind of the retirement lifestyle that people think about. But when you build that into your early life as well, and you take many retirements and you just slow things down, you might not need as much money as you really thought you did before. Michael: I was posting on Twitter the other day having conversation back and forth to somebody about I was curious to know how much money people spent having a job. So the work the clothes, the coffee, the meals, the transportation back and forth and someone goes I'm sure someone already did this. And so of course somebody had and it was like several $1,000 a year. So you subtract that out. You take out the tax. I mean, it really starts to become more manageable I think then then a lot of people realize. Emil: I think, for me, I've bookmarked this article, I know myself, I forget this message often. And it's so important. It's something I want to like, come back to yearly, if not quarterly, to just like reinforce that mentality, or else again, I think if you're a competitive if you're a type A, it's really, really easy to lose this message. And it's so so damn important. Chad: I have to go back and read it myself. Like, everything I write, I like I am the number one like receiver of this message. It's like my better self sitting on one shoulder like talking over here. So this is like the stoic chat writing this thing talking to the like, the chat is like, you know, gluttony over here, eating all this food and traveling really fast and buying all these properties. I'm there as well. And I think it comes back, Emil, too like, what you pointed out like is how you set your ambitions. I think it's great to be ambitious. I think that's what part of what makes entrepreneurship so compelling is that we see things out there that bother us, and we go out and solve it like this. I think that's amazing. And I admire entrepreneurship. And I am like, through and through in my DNA, I am an entrepreneur, I love it. I think it's awesome. I've just been trying to figure out like, number one, it's like, let's find some balance, because there's other things in life, and you need to take some naps, and you need to enjoy your family. That's part one. But then Part two is like, Where can you channel that ambition in different ways. And the most intriguing thing for me lately has been like social entrepreneurship. There's a Nobel Peace Prize winner called Muhammad Yunus from Bangladesh, who won the Nobel Peace Prize for doing micro lending businesses in Bangladesh, and a spread kind of around the world as the Grameen Bank, and people are very familiar with micro lending now. But he even broader talks about how entrepreneurs once you've made it financially, or maybe even gotten a little bit of a nest egg, why not turn your energy and your entrepreneur entrepreneurial effort towards social problems and other things that you could solve with a businesslike solution, but then you do it in a way that maybe doesn't make you any profit at all, or, you know, you're not doing it to make money. And so I'm really intrigued by that. I've been doing it locally with a nonprofit trying to build an alternative transportation network in our communities, and not just cars, but bikes and walking and people work, you know, moving about who don't have cars, I don't want to use cars. That's kind of my little experiment locally. But there's also other interests, like affordable housing and health care. I mean, you just we can all we can make a list of like problems in our society, that if we if we had more smart, financially independent entrepreneurs working on them, man, like, how much better could we be? And I think I think that's something in our kind of circle of real estate investor, podcast and financial independence community kind of people that we can kind of get around that they have all these smart people that we know, thinking about that, and having the ambition to free up our time so that we can go change the world together. I think that would be just a pretty cool ambition in the big picture. Emil: Love that. Michael: Yeah, that's awesome. Well, Chad, always such a pleasure to have you on man. Thanks so much for taking the time. Chad: Yeah, you as well. You guys have fun on this podcast. You talked about good topics, and good stuff. Michael: We try. Emil: We try. Michael: Awesome. We'll Chad, if folks have more questions would like to reach out to you. We'd like to get a hold of your books, what's the best way for someone to get in touch? Chad: A couple different places. I know you'll have the BiggerPockets link to that article on there. I checked on that article. Every once in a while it's been become pretty popular on there, one of my more popular articles, so I can leave a comment there. And then I also wrote a book for BiggerPockets called retire early with real estate, which you can check out and it's kind of that article, even bigger, like the whole book is kind of built around that concept. And it gets into house hacking, and it gets into debt snowballs, and it gets into what you do after you achieve kind of your number for financial independence. How do you build some resiliency, so backup plans using entrepreneurship and other things. So the book is definitely something I would recommend to kind of get started. I have a podcast as well, that's kind of centered at coachcarson.com, The Real Estate and Financial Independence Podcast. And if people would like to add another one in addition to this podcast to their podcast list that would be honored to have you over there. Michael: Fantastic. Thanks again, man. And I hope to do it again soon. Chad: Thank you, Michael. Thanks, Emil, great talking to you. Michael: Likewise. All right, everybody. That was our episode. Thanks so much for listening. A big, big, big thank you to Chad Carson, as always super gracious with his time really fun guest to have on the show. If you haven't checked out his website, I highly recommend you do it. And if you haven't checked out his books or blog posts that he's made, I can also highly recommend them. So thanks so much for listening and happy investing.
Author Chad Carson’s Path to Financial Freedom and Full Time Real Estate Investing
The Remote Real Estate Investor
In this episode we chat with Coach Chad Carson with coachcarson.com about his journey to financial freedom, real estate partnerships, common challenges for investors and Chad's thoughts of the future of real estate. --- Transcript Michael: Hey everybody. Welcome to another episode of The Remote Real Estate Investor. I'm Michael Albaum and today I'm joined by, Tom: Tom Schneider. Michael: And today we are going to be having a really, really, really fun episode with author, teacher Chad Carson with CoachCarson.com . So Chad is gonna be talking to us about all things real estate, his story, how he got started, and now he's been a full time investor since his college graduation. All right, let's jump into it. Theme Song Michael: Chad, thank you so much for taking the time today. Really appreciate you being here with us. Chad: Yeah, thanks, Michael. Thanks, Tom. Really great to be here as well. Michael: And so tell all of our listeners whereabouts in the country are you located. Chad So I live in Clemson, South Carolina. And probably our claim to fame is the university right next door. It's a tiny little town. But Clemson University's here the football team. And so I went to school here and then stuck around afterwards and still live here. And it's really right next to the foothills of the Appalachian Mountains, lots of hiking, lots outdoors, lakes. So just a good good place to live and raise a family and invest in real estate as well. Michael: Awesome. And we were just chatting before we started recording here that you got some rain from this last weather system. But everything is all good. Everything is sounded dry. Chad: As far as I know. Yeah. No emergency text, you know, you guys are about long distance investing and passive investing. You know, most of the time, I don't hear anything from the property managers. They handle it. But now it's every once in a while you do get some emergency text. Michael: So far, so good deal. Awesome. So I know you I think Tom knows you pipe in bigger pockets. It's kind of, you know, you're a big hero of mine for what you've done and what you've written. And we'll get into that in a little bit. But we'd love to get a little bit of your background and your story to start things off here. Chad: Sure. Yeah. Well, I love bigger pockets as well. And what when I first started there, it was 2003. And I graduated from college. And I was a I was a biology major in college, I played football. So I kind of was just, you know, like anybody else when they're becoming an adult trying to figure out what's what's next, what am I going to do with my life. And I was fortunate enough that my dad had rental properties. And I used to like growing up, he would drop me off at a rental property and that he had bought at a foreclosure sale in the middle of the summer in Georgia. And it'll be hot in the junk everywhere and an old refrigerator and he's alright, Chad, I'll be back in a few hours cleaning that frigerator out. They had old, you know, like deer meat or something. I'm sure it sounds like I hate this business. Who would want to do real estate. So low Behold, I graduated from college, I thought why don't I just give this real estate thing a shot for a year or two. And then I'll go back to the real world after that. And 20 years, 18 years later, I'm still still doing that little side hobby of real estate investing. Michael: How great is it? It's so funny how the lens in which we learn about something or see something tends to overshadow you know, somebody of the other facts, right? Because we hear all the time Oh, I don't want to be a landlord. I don't wanna go fix toilets in the middle of the night. Or it is just you know, I don't want to go clean out refrigerators. Chad: Yes, exactly. Yeah, my brother and I were ungrateful little little guys that were complaining about that. But it was really good. It was a good learning experience to I think you all come in a side lesson, but cleaning the floors of the store or cleaning out the frigerator of your landlord. I mean, you don't want to do that forever. But it's really a good learning experience to see the basics of the dirty work of what has to be done. Michael: Absolutely. And so we're all your dad's rentals local to where you guys lit. Chad: He was in Newnan, Georgia still is he has rental properties there and he and my mom have retired and live off a rental income now. And so yeah, that was all kind of local local rentals. And then he's actually now lives in another state. So you know, it's evolved into a long distance rental arrangement for him as well. Michael: Right on and so after you graduated college and started to do your real estate side hustle, I mean, how did you get Into it full time was it was always part time or was it always full time? Chad: It was actually full time for me Luckily, I didn't need a lot of money to live right after college you know, still in the the ramen noodle stage, living and spare bedrooms of friends houses and worst case living in my camera, a Toyota Camry or a 10 or something, you know, so I was I was in that stage of life where I was really low cost no family to support it. So I just jumped in. And rather than being an investor, I was really more accurately an entrepreneur, who is just trying to find good deals, we would flip them we would either typically when I my first year to have a business partner, we've worked together the whole time, we would find deals for other people and just kind of pass them on for a small fee is what's called a wholesaler. So that was how we learned the business, cut our teeth. And then but as we learned to do that, we picked up that skill of finding good deals, it was kind of a natural step to start borrowing our own money from private investors from a couple local banks. And so we started flipping some houses where we fixed them up and flipping, flip them. And then after another A few years after we built up a little bit of capital, we started doing rental properties. And that's really split now that's that's our main thing. Now we very rarely do any flips. But we do rental properties. We loan some money to other people who are flipping houses so we're more of a kind of transition into a more passive investor long run Michael: Right on you kind of covered the Whole real estate investing schema there, didn't you? Chad: Yeah, I've been fortunate to be able to do a lot of it. Yeah, I've been on the money side now a little bit more the buy and hold the flipping, I've been the one who's out there making, you know, 5, 10 offers a week, you know, knocking on doors trying to buy properties that are, you know, in distress situations or landlord. So, it's been fun to be able to do all aspects of it. And I think it's kind like I talked about earlier, some point, if you want to outsource it other people, I don't think you need to know how to be an expert on everything. Like I'm not an expert, remodeler, contractor. But it certainly helped me be able to make decisions a little bit better with our money. Knowing all the details, what has to be done, Michael: That makes sense. Tom: It's almost more important to know where your gaps are at, you know, you know, versus coming in. And hubris and you know, saying that you're the best and every as that's a great point. Chad: Yeah, yep. Michael: And was all this local to where you were Chad? Chad: It was at the time. Yeah, so I've always invested in Clemson, I was fortunate that, you know, not a lot of people in the country aren't as fortunate that the deals that we were flipping also transition nicely into rental properties. And actually, my very first rental property was a house that I bought from another investor, the investor owner financed it to me with a really small downpayment. And I moved in briefly for like six months, and I realized is like a 2324 year old kid, as I can't afford this house with like $750 payments, and it's the best it is sold to me. So I quickly moved out and rented it out, and was able to at least turn it into a rental property. So that is my story. But I have over time, my wife and I part of our our story is that she's a Spanish teacher, we love traveling. And so we always knew kind of the back of our minds, the rental business is going at once we want to turn that into an income stream that we can use to travel and have a little bit more flexibility. And so several trips in our time together, 2009, 2017, we've gone abroad and kind of taken our backpacks before kids and just wandered around in South America. And then 2017, we had our two kids who were three and five at the time. And we moved to Ecuador for 17 months, and put them in school there. And they were able to study set learn Spanish with kids there and and so what started as a local business turned into a more of a long distance business and kind of forced us to think about systems and approaches and property managers. And how do we do this without me having to be there all the time? Michael: Oh, this is so cool. I have so many follow up questions. But what a neat story. What a neat story. So with all the local stuff. Did you have property managers, were you utilizing property managers when you're doing the buy and hold type stuff? Chad: Yeah, we started off doing everything ourselves. So not saying that's the right way to do it. But we were the property manager and say we as a business partner as well, early on, we actually divided up the business into like, the first step was acquisitions, and then financing, and then fixing up the property and then farming it out, which is either selling it or renting it out. And we basically divided it down the middle I was the acquisitions guy, I was the financing person who worked on getting bank or private money. And then he would manage the rehabs and then either get it rented out or sell it. And so we we did all that in house in terms of the early on property management. And we over time, the the model we did was we grew kind of internal assistant who started off as a bookkeeper. And then she's really competent as a bookkeeper. And we saw the she had other skills, communication skills. And so we kind of groomed her into being more of a property manager, where she would do 90% of the tasks. So the you know, when we put signs out or put ads in the online or took calls from people or talk to people, former landlord, she would do almost all of that, I would still be the underwriter to decide, yes, we're going to rent to this person or not. And I would sign the lease agreements, still do some things like that. But we basically built our own internal property manager for a little property management company for a little while. But then over time, we'd grown a little bit bigger. And it outgrew her capacity to do as much. And she also decided to retire. So we just in the last year, we've moved more to third party property management with a couple different companies. So we've transitioned into just having being more of a pure investor, and having other people do do the property management stuff Tom: In transitioning to that more of a buy and hold strategy versus wholesaling. I'd love to hear what were some of the early kind of like learning points that are no struggles of just getting in and being more that kind of buy and hold strategy is I would imagine doing self property management. There's some challenges there but kind of across the board. I'd love your thoughts on. Chad: Yeah, I mean, yeah, the definitely the actually learning how to be a manager was was a big growing curve, you know, and I wish we had more time of dating myself a little bit, but 2007 and eight was when we were really started transitioning into more full time buying hold. And that also happened to be the time that the Great Recession happened and rate time and I Tom: Think everyone was forced to do that. Anyway, Chad: I was forced to do it. That's why we couldn't flip as many houses that we had just bought in 2007. So that was a big learning experience. I think the other thing we just a lot about we just had we had learning lessons where we may mistakes on how to how to analyze the numbers for a rental property. And this is a big takeaway that I know you guys probably talked about too, is that if you don't have a good estimate of what your maintenance and your capital expenses are, and you underestimate those, you know, when you buy and hold your, you're holding this thing for me, you're nobody else is going to bail you out of this, like with a flip, you could, you can make a few mistakes, even worst case scenario, you lost a little bit of money, you get rid of the property, and you move on to the next one, with a buy and hold. I mean, this is this is it, you better do your analysis right up front, because it's not going to get any better over time. I mean, the rents might go up in value out a little bit, but it's a long, slow process. And so we bought some properties and just got too aggressive and underestimated a lot of repairs, where we thought we're gonna make $200 a month in cash flow, we're really negative 50 or negative hundred bucks a month. Hopefully, I'm not the only one has ever done that. But Michael: You’re in very good company, man. Chad: All right. Yeah, so we made that mistake. And but I guess that's the way I learned, you know, I could read in a book, I could listen to a podcast, and then you make the mistake. And now it's burned into my head, wait a minute, like you have to replace heating and air units, wait a minute, this is a 60 year old property and the sewer system or the, you know, the pipes underneath the house are going to start breaking after a long time. So I think some of those old house problems, Tom, were the are some of the lessons, I think we learned that you have to understand how houses put together again, you don't have to be the expert on doing all that stuff. But if you're gonna invest your money, and especially investing directly in properties, you do need to be the asset manager who thinks about the long term life of your systems, which types of properties are most efficient. So we found out that, you know, if you have a house that has all wooden siding, and you have to paint that every five or 10 years, that's a lot more costly than having a property, this brick siding, and has metal trim around the outside of the house, as you know, double pane vinyl windows, and all that low maintenance stuff that seems just kind of boring details. But those kind of things make the difference between a property that makes money over 10 to 20 year period, and a property that becomes an alligator and eats all your money instead. Michael: It's such a good point to chat about knowing those type of nuances and intricacies of whatever the local effect on the property is going to have. Right. And in harsh weather climates, you want to have maybe a different exterior than in a hotter climate. So knowing all that stuff, I think is so critical. Chad, I'm curious to know about your partner, and how you guys whoever it is got linked up, because something I get questions about all the time is how do I find a partner? And something I've always said is find someone who has what you don't whether it's money time to experience go look to partner with someone, as opposed to whoever your best friend is just because it's easy. So how did you two meet? Chad: I think your advice is right, I think we did bring different things to the party. But we were both beginners in real estate investing when we got into it. And I was when I played football in college at Clemson he had an online business, which at the time was a weird thing in 2000, you know, 02, 03 to have a internet business. And he had it was actually related to Clemson sports. And so I was he was doing interviews with some of the football players. And I just met him that way and kind of hit it off talked about finance and real estate something else. And so over time, we just went to some classes together and said, Hey, this is cool, we ought to do this together. And when I decided to move back up to Clemson, right after college was over, we just jumped in together, we actually started an LLC, each of us put 250 bucks into this LLC. And so we had a $500 in capital in this thing. We actually read a book called The E-Myth at the time really awesome. business book, and book, it was the first book we read about business and it said, Hey, when you start a business, you ought to go and treat yourself like a big corporation and say, Alright, here's the CFO, here's the CEO. Here's the person who handles bookkeeping. And so we drew this like diagram of all the different roles in our little flipping business. And I said, Tommy, which one do you want to take? Alright, I'll take this one. You took it we just like like alternating back and forth. It's totally random. And, but but it was a really good exercise, because it did force us to divide our task and ask like, Alright, who's good at what he was better at just working with contractors and saying, Hey, this is what it is, can you do any better on that price, he was just kind of haggling and staying on focus, and a really good project manager. And then I was more than a communicator, and going out negotiating with people and finding sellers and kind of the more the sales communication role. And we just divided that up. And we had some crossover here and there, but I think we were, what we both contributed was we didn't have to have a lot of overhead and hire anybody for a while because we contributed a bunch of time to it personally. And then eventually it became profitable to the sense that we could start hiring some people particularly on the rental side, but the thing that made it work was exactly your advice. Make sure you're each bringing something different to the party. The other thing was just aligning your long term goals and Is this a good person, you got to trust your partner with somebody This is all about trust is somebody who you believe in you can trust. If there's any inkling at all, there's just not even if it's not trust, it's not a good personality fit. Just don't do it. Like just move on. There's better there's better ways to spend Your time because it's kind of like a marriage, but without all the other benefits of marriage for a long time, and for better or worse, and, you know, a lot of partnerships get ugly, because there's not an alignment of a lot of those things we just talked about. Tom: Yeah. Michael: For anybody considering a partnership, please rewind the last four minutes and listen to that again. Tom: Yeah. You know, I like about two is just thinking of like, what people bring to the table, you know, it's not all like one side, it could be experience, it could be they have a lot of extra time to work on it. It could be a lot of capital. I mean, just like, as Michael was alluding to earlier, and I mean, just to hammer on the point, like, yeah, trust, if that's not there, like just throw it all out, it really, really doesn't matter. Chad: Yeah, I didn't want to hop on that one. We've done other partnerships since then. So we have a company. But we've partnered with other people, and exactly that role, where we brought the energy expertise, the ability to go find deals, somebody else was super busy at a job, but has some capital and credit. And we did partners like credit partnerships where they would buy, we'd bring a deal, they'd buy the property, and then we found a way to split up the deal. And they were a bit more passive. And we've used a lot of creative financing to get that done, like lease options and, and other kind of contracts. But real estate, so cool. In that way, there are a lot of different ways to split deals up. And it happens all the way up from the very tiny deals all the way up to, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars in commercial real estate, there's using options and leases and contracts, that sky's the limit on how creative you can get if you get the basic, you know, arrangement of what you're talking about that everybody brings some value, you agreed in writing how it's gonna work. And to me, that's one of the most fun parts of the business. Tom: I got a question for each. I think a lot of people have can offer one of these things get money or skilled or whatnot. But I think a lot of people are concerned about getting taken advantage of like, what is their kind of BS detector on somebody they might want to do work with? Do you have any advice for people in vetting out a potential partner, either on the capital side or on the operation side on enter your method of kind of identifying like, is this a good actor? Chad: I just like to move slowly. Yeah, I think some of this is like, even outside of the real estate sphere. Most of us have worked with people before most of us have been taken advantage before typically is moving too fast. It's trying to get it done. Now, I read a book early on in my career, as well called the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. Tom: Love your book list! Michael: Killer list. Chad. Tom: Keep them coming. Chad: Yeah, I go back to that book all the time. Because there's so many life lessons, it's about knowing yourself, but also how you communicate with people, when his comments was when you're working with systems and business, you know, a lot of entrepreneurs want to go fast, they just want to make everything efficient, do the best thing. But when you're working with people, like slow is fast, like going slower, and slowing things down and getting to know somebody. And I've constantly been reminded this over time, whether it's working with money partners, where you know, I just got to know somebody for a year or two. And do I trust this person do I like them is my personality align. And so many times, we just want to jump into something really fast. But when people go slowly, take your time, ask questions, get to know the person, then and only then do you start looking at some of the details of the real estate deal. Because all of that the foundation of all that other stuff is completely dependent on that relationship and that trust. So I think that's my tip, it's not really a hack or something you do fast. But if you're long distance, which I know a lot of listeners are, it's gonna be a little bit more challenging. But maybe one of the silver linings of COVID is that everybody's doing zoom anyway. So just getting used to having a zoom with a property manager having a if you are going to partner with somebody who's like a general partner, don't let them push you into something too fast. They're trying to push you really fast. That's probably the wrong person. I've heard somebody give a tip where they've said, I'd like to invest money with you. This is the limited partner talking. But I want to watch a couple deals that you do before I do that. And they get all the documentation for that deal. They would follow the whole thing through as if they had invested with that person ask questions, they paid attention to details. And that takes a lot of patience takes a lot of time. But I think that's so worth it. You'll get to know somebody, you'll get to know how they do things. If you just study them for a little while, six months, nine months, maybe a year after that you've cemented that even though they're they're a good person to work with it or not. And then that that time you've invested in that downpayment, of relationship building you've invested can last for 20, 30 years after that, Tom: Love it, there's this theme in poker called being tight and aggressive. And it's like, you know, having kind of taken that time to get to know someone doing all that right work. And then once it's like, oh, yeah, this is right, then it's being aggressive and moving quickly. I love that. Chad: There you go. Tom: Moving slow and fast. Michael: It is such good advice. Because Yeah, I know, every single time I've been burned by someone is because I moved way too quickly. Because I felt cornered felt forced, it felt like I was my hand was forced. And yeah, it worked out horribly and to the opposite. Everyone that I spent time getting to know it's worked out beautifully or it just never worked out at all and that's okay too. But I spent the time to learn that Chad: And I think about myself Why did I do that? Because I've done the same thing like I think it was because I was I had a scarcity mindset that absolutely another deal. There's not gonna be another partner, right? You know, there's always another deal. There's always another partner. So as a brand new investor, don't get pressured to think that you're going to miss out on something. There have been deals for 100 to thousands of years in real estate, there will be deals for hundreds and thousands of years. Again, don't worry about it, you're gonna be just fine. Michael: The deal of a lifetime only comes around about once a week. So Chad yeah, there you go. Michael: Awesome. Well, Chad, I know that you're also in the real estate education space, you have coach Carson, calm, curious to know what you see some common hurdles, challenges are for new investors, Chad: I think before knowledge is confidence. Like I think, you know, I deal with so many people who are competent professionals. And in some other space, you know, they're an engineer, they're a salesperson, they're a nurse, janitor, whatever, they're good at what they do. And then here, they come into real estate, and they're an adult trying to learn this thing. And they're also gonna invest a bunch of their money in it. That's just a recipe for like, lack of confidence. And just man I can't. And so that's one of the biggest hurdles that I see. My solution is kind of like, this is sports analogy, Coach Carson, kind of why bring that to the table, is that anything time you're trying to do something big, you just got to break it down into really little small pieces, like the Dave Ramsey baby steps. Because when you do that, it becomes less intimidating. And you build confidence on that one little thing. And I'll give you an example. Like something out when people are first starting, I often recommend that they just focus on your What is your strategy? Like Don't worry about getting into analyzing your market, don't worry about the money yet. Don't worry about any of that. Let's just talk about like you and your finances and where you are. Are you a brand new beginner, are you you have a million bucks in the bank and you're trying to like diversify, or you have 50,000 bucks in the bank and you're trying to grow that nest egg, depending on where you are, that's gonna sort of dictate which strategy makes sense, whether that's house hacking, buy and hold rentals, long distance rentals, turnkey. You know, there's a lot of different viable strategies out there. Don't try to copy cookie cutters that you heard on a podcast because it worked for Chad or worked for somebody else, you know, have that self knowledge of saying, Alright, here's where I am. Here's where what I need in my life financially, and just be okay with that strategy. be okay with doing one deal, even though people on bigger pockets are doing thousand deals in one year, you know, man, that's intimidating. Like, I can't I can't do that. Michael: I could never do that. Chad: Yeah, I could never do that. So therefore I must not be successful. I think that's the challenge is that you can if you compare yourself to other people, that's going to kill your confidence. If you try to take on too much at one time, that's gonna kill your confidence. So be okay with who you are. be okay with where you are. Break it down into the next step and say, what's the next thing I need to figure out? All right, I got my strategy. I'm going to do house hacking. Alright, good. What's next? All right, I need to figure out my target market. Where am I gonna invest? Alright, let's talk about that. How do you analyze the market. So you break it down in those steps, and it becomes much more manageable. And it's kind of like, you know, you're going on a hike or a journey, you just kind of check one milestone off another milestone. And that's the cool thing about real estate to me is that you don't have to jump all in at one time. Um, there's a bunch of little steps, even down to the contract. If you get a property under contract, that seems really intimidating. But there's a due diligence clause where you can you ask your local attorney or local agent to if you made a big mistake, and you shouldn't pay that price, you have about 14 days maybe to evaluate that and get out of it. So I think there's so many little steps like that we can move forward with low risk or no risk and build your confidence to the point where you get some momentum eventually. Michael: That's great advice. So you're also the author of retire early with real estate, a great book, I've read it, we're actually gonna be reading it for our roof stock Academy book club next month. We're very excited about it. Yeah, it's gonna be fun. It's gonna be a lot of fun. You're gonna come join us for our book club session next month. What motivated you to write that? Chad: Yeah, it was actually right in the middle of when I was traveling to Ecuador when I wrote it. And I actually had a conversation with Brandon Turner BiggerPockets. We were at a conference about a year before that. And we were just chatting about his books he was doing, they were doing pretty well. I was just picking his brain. And he's like, Oh, you want to write a book, you know, go submit this. And it's kind of early stages of their book, book business. And I started I like the idea. I've been writing a blog and thousands and thousands of words, initially, I didn't think anybody would read that stuff. And then more people started reading it as Oh, that's cool. So I had a lot of words on paper, but I kind of condensed like, what is it all about that? What are some of the messages I'm trying to convey? And what are the things that are important to me and one of the I think the core messages that I try to get across in my blog, and my podcast is that real estate investing is a vehicle. It's a tool, but it's taking you to a place where you're doing more of what matters in your life. So it's really about your life. It's about working backwards from what's important to you, what are your values? How would you spend your time on a day to day basis, if you had unlimited money, and money wasn't an issue anymore? I think those answers are why most of us are doing it. And very often it gets turned around where we're like, it's all about the thousand units. And it's about the doing really well which is which is cool. You know, I'm not discounting any of that stuff. But I wanted to write a book that not only validated like the small investor who's investing for lifestyle and who's trying to, you know, maybe have five properties, get them paid off and have three or 4000 bucks coming in and allowing them to work a part time job instead of working a full time job at 40 years old. Like that kind of lifestyle business is what earlier retirement meant to me that was the idea of getting control of your money so that you can get to control your time and your life. And start asking yourself that question like, Alright, what does matter to me what I want to do, and I grew up, you know that same question we asked when we were 15 years old, 10 years old, like when I grew up, I'm going to be an astronaut. When I grew up, I'm going to start this big thing that's going to help the world and save the world. You know, when we get to be adults, we kind of get that creativity and that imagination ground out of us because we get into the practical stuff. And so I wanted to write a book that kind of inspired on the big picture of, hey, what could you do, if money were not an object, and then go from there and give like a blueprint. So it's kind of the big picture, here are the steps you can take to climb up the mountain, whether you're brand new beginner, whether you're intermediate, whether you're advanced, here are the steps you take and the things you need to think about if you actually want to live off of your rental income and have that flexibility. Michael: That's so great. Yeah, so often I hear or the question asked, you know, what's your goal and people give $1 figure unit count figure that really needs to go a step further than that is to know what is that money your unit count gonna allow you to do? What's the life that you want to be living? Tom: Yeah, yeah. The Why just because it's such a struggle, you know, in going through it, like, there's setbacks all the time. And it's like, you have a really flimsy why on, you know, not a clear kind of definition of like what done you know, where you want to go makes it that much more difficult to keep going without that more solid aspect? Chad: Absolutely. Yeah, my real estate is fun. I love the business too. But I recognize there's, there's kind of a variation on the people who get into it, how passionate they are about it, like some people would be fine, getting a few properties, letting somebody else do all the work. And they want to go start a nonprofit to do something completely on their own related to real estate. You know, I'm a nerd, you guys are nerds. We're like doing podcasts about this all the time. But there's some people that are kind of partially nerds about it. And you know, that's okay, too. But if you have that passion in mind, and you have that in mind, it's more than just kind of fluffy feel good stuff. I mean, it it dictates how you make decisions about the types of properties you buy, the scale of how you grow your business, the types of contracts and deals you get into. I mean, for example, my business partner and I have mainly stayed with small residential. And we've gotten into some like smaller multifamily like 12 plexes. And we bought some bigger properties as well. But we really like the small scale. And we've kind of kept our financing. And the way we do deals pretty simple, like we're not doing syndications and going out and starting, you know, big funds, although we could have had a lot of opportunities to do that. But working it backwards and saying, why am I doing this, I want to be able to turn the business on and off and go travel for 17 months, or I want to start a business like coach Carson, where I made zero money for several years, because it's just fun. And I like it's a passion to be able to do that you've got to build a business that not only makes money, but also has certain require, certain capabilities and systems that allow you to do whatever you want to do. So it's very practical, when you start from the end, kind of work it backwards. Michael: I think that's such a good point. I know for me, I kind of personally fell victim to that mindset that, you know, the former mindset of, Oh, I got to get to 100 units, 100 units, hundred units. And then it just got to be to this kind of overwhelming point. And I said, Wait a minute, why am I doing like, why is that number important? What is that going to give me? What if I just rearranged some of the things that made my life simpler, could I get the same result or a better result. And so learning to do less with more, I think is really important too. So I love that point you made Chad. Okay, so you can do real estate full time since you're out of college. And I hear so many people, especially in the academy talked about wanting to retire early and looking to you know, make real estate then do real estate full time. Give us a day in the life of a full time real estate investor. When you're not in Ecuador. Chad: Yeah, that's a good question. You know, I still like work. I think that's one of the secrets that people hear about retiring early. Michael: Because we're nerds, man. Chad: I enjoy it like I do like it. But I think the main differences is there's a lot less pressure. I know when we first started even up until 2014 and 15, even we had some of the properties, same number of properties. There's just always the pressure of like next month, I got to produce again next month, I got to do more and get into some of these plateaus where the cash flow continues to come in. Yes, there's some problems. Yes, the heat and air blows up here and there. Yes, there's some cash flow kind of rollercoasters here and there, but getting to the point where it's pretty consistent on the amount of money you can get coming in, that allows you to kind of change your schedule around as well. For example, I used to take all of our leasing calls, I used to take calls from people, you know, when you put a property for rent, you get dozens of calls, and you're on the phone all the time, like I do deep work, I do creative work, I do things that are not necessarily really urgent, and I paid other people to do the sales calls and taking care of maintenance issues. And and so I think that's that's the thing that shifted, that doesn't mean I'm not aware of those like I still I think all of us no matter how, you know, quote passive, you get should still pay attention to the detail. So like I look at the property management reports every month, I'm paying attention very closely to the cash flow and the amount of rent that's being collected. And are there any kind of exception reporting Are there any weird things on the report this month that are different than normal? I equate that actually To the like, when you watch the matrix, I think it's so cool when he finally can start seeing everything and like digital numbers, you know, 01010. And so I've always compared the point where you're stepping back from your business to something like that, where you look at reports, and you look at, you know, your analysis of your business and numbers. And then when you see something weird or something unusual, you then jump into the matrix, you go in there, and you figure it out, and talk to the property manager and say, Hey, what's up with this thing? Let me get in the weeds too. So I just I've had to be in the weeds in the last month or two, we had a fire, unfortunately, for the one of our rental properties, and no one was hurt. That was my first question. But we've had to deal with getting bids from contractors dealing with insurance, and how's this gonna work? And how did you tie those two things together. And so that was a new one. For me, I'm spending more than a normal amount of time on that kind of project that comes up every once in a while. But on a typical week, when it's just, Hey, I'm going to do a little bit of bookkeeping, I'm going to send a text message to the property manager. I mean, that could be an hour or two per week, probably max, you know, 110 properties. So it just ranges depending on how involved you want to be. And also what's going on, I like to get in on the big side, the one we're selling a property when we have an insurance issue like that, when we every once in a while just meeting up with the property managers and talking strategy talking, Hey, how are we screening tenants? What's your best practice here? You know, there's some things like that that go on. But the kind of day to day week to week basis, it's looking at your bookkeeping, looking at those numbers, asking questions, sending a few texts here and there. And that's, that's kind of a normal routine for me. Michael: Right on. So not to one up you by any means. But I actually had two fires in the same building on a property that I own, and I'm dealing with the insurance thing. So I don't know how it's going for you. I hope it's going well. But if you want to chat offline more about it, I'd be more than happy to public adjusters came and saved my bacon. That's a big, big, big plug for that profession. I was a big fan of that. So I hope it continues to go well. But yeah, let me know if you need some recommendations. happy to share. Chad: I'm in the early stages. So yeah, I think we'll we'll connect on that. And I'm planning on doing a podcast at some point on my, you know, lessons, the good and bad of what I'm probably screwing some stuff up as well. But yeah, that's that's the that's my plan in the next couple of months to share what I've learned. Michael: Okay, perfect. I look forward to hearing that. Tom: I got a question for you sort of a crystal ball question. So changing world going through a pandemic, lots of technology advancements, how do you see this evolving real estate investing with your strategy or general kind of an open ended question of just the confluence of changes in the world and how you see it affecting real estate investment? Chad: Yeah, I love that question. I think one of the trends and this has already been ongoing before COVID-19 came about, I read a book, it's another book recommendation. Big Shifts Ahead by… Tom: I heard you drop Deep Work to another great, great book. Chad: Yeah. Another another reference. Tom: We love John Burns. Sorry, you're talking about Big Shifts Ahead. Chad: Okay. So you know, John Burns, okay. I don't know him personally. But I like his work and his book, Big Shifts Ahead. Tom: We had him on the podcast before he's yet he's a super entertaining guy. We had our back, I'm sorry for interrupting. Go ahead. Michael: No, he's a legend. Chad: He's really smart. his company's built is very good with analytics. And what my understanding is they advise a lot of hedge funds and builders and construction, who are looking at the whole country and trying to figure out the big trends. And so one of the to your question, though, one of the big trends that I think is most relevant for us, as investors trying to pick where we're going to invest, and you know, where we put our money is just the flow of people like where are the demographics of people moving and why. And one of the interesting things that john put out there was that, first of all, there's growth all around the country, I mean, country is doing pretty well, if you look at the big picture, let's be optimistic here. Like in the big picture, we're still have a rule of law, we still have contracts with our economy is really hard to replicate. You're not when I travel around the world, it's kind of evident, you have good people everywhere, but to replicate the recipe of what we have going on with availability of credit, and Mark real estate markets and contracts. And it's just this recipe is pretty unique that we have. So United States is a great place to invest your money. That's my main takeaway. But then within the United States, john burns points out that a lot of the movement of people has been to the south of Southwest, southeast. They're just kind of outpacing growth in those areas. So I'm in South Carolina, Georgia, you know, Alabama's kind of seeing that North Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, you know, been a big way. A lot of people know that it's already on the map, but also Arizona, Southern California to an extent. But you know, there's a weather thing there. But also within that kind of movement to the south. There's a movement from city centers, to suburban areas. And he actually coined a term called surban. I don't know if you guys talked about it on the podcast yet. Tom: We didn't talk about but I love it. Chad: Yeah. So the suburban, it's like a hybrid. You have a lot of millennials, for example, lived in urban areas, pre forming their family, they love public transit. They love biking and walking paths and parks. So a lot of these urban things you think about good restaurants, good quality of life. Well, they're moving to the suburbs because they want to buy houses, the urban areas are out of their reach because of the prices. But when they go to the suburbs, what are they looking for? They're looking for urban like qualities. And so one of my favorite locations to invest in and help other people invest in are, you know, go to a city center, go to go to an Atlanta, go to a Charlotte, go to an Austin, Texas, but then go outside the city and find these, you know, little pockets, these little suburban places at 50,000 people 20,000 people, hundred thousand people, and they have their own little gravity, their own little town center and find the ones that have some quality of life factors. So it could be a college town where I am, that's an example. You've got football games, you've got, you know, intellectual stimulation, you've got culture, there could be other areas that have natural beauty. I think a lot of places Colorado, for example, you know, people are moving there, because of the quality of life. And businesses are moving there, high tech businesses are moving there, because their employees want to live there, these millennials and some of these people who want that quality of life. So I've actually been trying to take my town and Clemson into that I'm kind of getting into local politics and have a nonprofit trying to build bike trails. And I've been trying to convey to them like that trend is happening. And if you're not investing in like quality amenities, and your little small town, to attract those people, you're missing the boat, it's not the traditional, bring in this huge manufacturer who's going to have all these big factories somewhere, a lot of its going to be small tech businesses and people who are working remotely. And so as real estate investors, we can also pay attention to that and kind of follow some of those trends. And I think particularly for those who aren't big, huge hedge funds, trying to find our one or two little deals, I think we have to go to some of the smaller markets in order to find the opportunities where there's actually still some meat on the bone, you know, some opportunities to buy some properties that cash flow, and have some good growth potential. Tom: That's awesome. there's a there's a fund out there that focuses very specifically on this kind of tier two cities. And you're right that a lot of those ones have been kind of picked off, you know, the larger private equity and hedge funds and funds are you know, made. It's so competitive. But that's a great point as far as kind of crystal ball on where to go and looking for these, you know, just outside of those major cities. The great john burns reference. Love it. Michael: Tom, any final questions for Chad before them get out of here? Tom: No, that was great. Yeah, that was great. Michael: Well, Chad, thank you so much for taking the time to be here today. If folks have more questions for you want to learn more about you? where's the best place where they can do that? or reach out to you? Chad: Sure. Yeah, everything online for me starts at coachcarson.com. I've been writing a blog there for years I've want to guides and articles and how to kind of in depth how to articles also have been a lot of fun with my podcast and YouTube channel too. So if you like podcasts have the real estate and Financial Independence Podcast focuses on some of the things we talked about today and more the nuts and bolts and practical side of using real estate to retire early to achieve financial independence. I also interview some other people, mainly, you know, students, I do have some experts on there. But a lot of it's just real people who are getting it done, how they bought their property, how they, you know, grew to three or four properties. So trying to focus just on the nitty gritty nuts and bolts. And I do the same thing with my YouTube channel where I kind of just get behind the camera kind of coach whiteboard style, you know, drawing on a little whiteboard or something. And here's how you do a debt snowball. Here's how you do a house hack. And so if you like those kind of kind of nuts and bolts type approach to real estate. That's, that's what I try to do. Michael: Fantastic. Tom: Awesome. We'll add a link in the podcast description. Michael: Perfect. Chad, thank you again for taking the time. So looking forward to having you on the academy book club next month. Appreciate that in advance. And we'll catch you later. Chad: Yeah. Thanks, Tom. Thanks, Michael. It's been a pleasure. Michael: Okay, everybody, that was our episode a big, big, big thank you to Chad Carson. That was a ton of fun. Thank you so much for joining us a lot of really great nuggets in there. So go back and give it a read, listen, rewind it, take notes, tons and tons of great content in there. So again, a big thank you to Chad. And we look forward to having Chad back on the Roofstock Academy book club session for the month of November. And so if you were thinking about joining the academy or not sure, check us out at RoofstockAcademy.com and feel free to take advantage of the book club session that we're going to be having for the month of November where we have Chad back on. Thanks everyone for listening. And if you'd like that episode, feel free to give us a rating and review wherever it is you listen your podcasts and we look forward to seeing you on the next one. Tom: Happy investing
#91 with Chad Carson: How to Operate Over 110 Units with Rock Solid Systems
Millennial Millionaire Real Estate Podcast
In this episode, Jonathan Farber interviews Chad Carson on his road from starting real estate to stay off the beaten career path to operating over 110 units with rock solid systems. Chad is a buy and hold investor based in Clemson, South Carolina, currently focused on growing his coaching and mentorship business. In this episode, we dive into topics like: balancing effort with planning, reaching your career endgame, why to self-manage, and more! Top Takeaways: Hustle vs. strategy - 10:00 - 13:30 No matter what job you have, you have to make money to have something to save Especially early on, you need to be around to handle things and take opportunities Once you start making more money you can spend more money to save more time Creating a system to achieve your financial freedom - 15:00 - 18:00 Never being truly “passive” is probably OK - could you stand to work 1 hour a day? The systems you put in place will automate the tasks that no one needs to spend time on The people you recruit will be the reason your business keeps running when you’re not there The value in self management - 19:00 - 21:15 Managing your own properties will give you respect for the work that goes into real estate At the same time, you’ll be learning the value of all the work you may eventually hire out Don’t forget to pay yourself for managing, just like you would pay an outside manager How to bring value to Chad Carson: Check out the website and podcast Resources: buildium.com Book by Tim Ferriss: The 4-Hour Workweek Book by Joseph R. Dominguez: Transforming Your Relationship With Money asana.com Social Links: biggerpockets.com/blog/contributors/chadcarson coachcarson.com coachcarson.com/coach-carson-podcast Coach Carson on Youtube linkedin.com/in/coachcarson Connect With The host, Jonathan Farber Here! LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanfarber1/ Instagram: @jonjfarb Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.farber.9 Facebook Group: Real Estate Mentorship Mastermind https://www.facebook.com/groups/860025821084224/ BiggerPockets: https://www.biggerpockets.com/users/JonathanF29 Schedule a time to talk: https://calendly.com/jonathan-farber/1-on-1-with-jonathan-farber-mmtr Apply to be a guest on the podcast here: https://forms.gle/YNmALHUvDvuMWVVFA