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Barry Schwartz Podcasts

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47 of The Best Podcast Episodes for Barry Schwartz. A collection of podcasts episodes with or about Barry Schwartz, often where they are interviewed.

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47 of The Best Podcast Episodes for Barry Schwartz. A collection of podcasts episodes with or about Barry Schwartz, often where they are interviewed.

Updated daily with the latest episodes

Best weekly hand curated episodes for learning

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#41 Dr. Barry Schwartz | The Paradox of Choice

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Imagine you are on your way to a special occasion at a restaurant you’ve always wanted to try. It’s a fancy place that required booking months in advance, so you won’t be returning soon. When you arrive and see the menu, there are many items that love to order. Then, the waiter arrives and shares the daily specials. All of them sound incredible!

After careful consideration of the spectacular options, you decide on your order. But, this was not an easy decision and many attractive options had to fall by the wayside. But you enjoy your meal. That is, until you see two of the items you didn't order going to another table and, lo and behold, they look even better than what you ordered!

Afterward, you’re disappointed to realize you remember more about what you didn't eat than what you did.

My guest on this episode is Dr. Barry Schwartz, a New York Times bestselling author of several books including The Paradox of Choice. Barry was a psychology professor at Swarthmore College for decades and he now teaches at UC Berkeley Haas School of Business. I have been a big fan of Barry’s work for years and what he describes in The Paradox of Choice are several well-researched but counter-intuitive psychological realities including the fact that when we have too many options, we tend to hate the process of decision making, may make poor decisions, or make no decision at all.

I recently learned that my Grandpa Ben, who owned a dress shop for over 50 years, understood this truth. Although he did not have much conventional education, he was very smart. When a customer entered his shop, he offered only three dresses that he thought would best match the customer. Somehow, my grandpa knew that more options would overwhelm them and would reduce the chances of a sale.

In this episode, Barry will describe a host of fascinating findings that will improve your understanding of the invisible forces that guide our judgment and our decision-making processes. In addition to his books, Barry has had several excellent and well watched TED talks that have garnered millions of views and I recommend those as well.

But for now, join Barry and me as we have a lively, fun, and fascinating discussion about the paradox of choice.



Oct 16 2020 · 54mins
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More Choice Makes Us More Miserable (with Barry Schwartz)

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Barry Schwartz is the author of several books, including Why We Work and The Paradox of Choice. I spoke to Barry about his findings in these two important books.    Why is it that the harder we work and the more affluent we become, the more depressed we get? Prevailing social wisdom is that more is better, and that more choices should yield more satisfaction, but that is not the case at all. More choice not only overwhelms us, it raises our expectations and makes us doubt our decision-making. Too much choice doesn’t just not make us happier, it increases our anxiety and makes us less happy.    Could it be, even in our freedom loving country, that we have gotten too much of a good thing? That we would actually benefit from some guardrails in our lives? I’m sure there are those who would argue against it, but Barry’s research and conclusions here are quite persuasive.    Barry Schwartz taught psychology at Swarthmore College for 45 years and is now Visiting Professor of Management at UC Berkeley’s Haas School of Business. He holds an M.A. and a Ph.D. from Univeristy of Pennsylvania, and a B.S. from New York University. His TED Talks on the topics of work, choice, and wisdom have been viewed over 20 million times.   

Find out more about Crazy Money and Paul Ollinger on his website and/or follow him on the socials: 

• Twitter: http://Twitter.com/Paul_Ollinger

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/paul_ollinger/

• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/PaulOllinger/

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paulollinger/

Produced and edited by Mike Carano

Topics addressed on Crazy Money include: Philosophy, Happiness, Contentment, Meaning, Success, Rat Race, Buddhism, Stoicism, The hedonic treadmill, Mid-Life Crisis, Authors, Books, Consumerism, and Values.

Aug 18 2020 · 1hr 5mins

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Spoiled for Choice: With Guests Barry Schwartz & Jen Glantz

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Traditional economic theory says that more choice should always be better than less. After all, if the cereal aisle has corn flakes, honey nut corn flakes, toasted coconut corn flakes, chocolate corn flakes, multi-grain flakes, and all the rest, you’ll surely be able to find the breakfast carbs that suit your taste buds perfectly. But it turns out that, in certain situations, more choices can be counterproductive.

In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at how having too many options can sometimes produce anxiety, reduce satisfaction, and even lead us to abandon the decision we’d planned to make altogether.

You’ll hear from professional bridesmaid (yes, that’s a real thing) Jen Glantz about her experiences supporting brides through the many decisions they face in planning a wedding. Jen has seen it all: the fatigue, the indecision, the anxiety, and the emotional toll that can result from managing myriad choices while planning the big day.

Jen, herself, is now engaged to be married. But rather than subject herself to that giant list of wedding day choices, she has come up with a clever plan to offload the decision-making effort.

Jen Glantz runs Bridesmaid for Hire and is based in Brooklyn, New York. 

Barry Schwartz is an academic authority on this phenomenon. His book The Paradox of Choice challenged traditional economic theory about the utility of ever-expanding options in prosperous societies. 

Barry joins Katy to explain where choice overload occurs, and where it doesn’t, and to discuss the benefits of satisficing when it comes to choosing televisions or restaurants or blue jeans. 

Barry Schwartz is the Dorwin P. Cartwright Professor Emeritus of Social Theory and Social Action at Swarthmore College.

Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the series, visit schwab.com/podcast.

If you enjoy the show, please leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating or review on Apple Podcasts.

Important Disclosures:

All expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market conditions.

The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.

Data contained herein from third-party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable sources. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed.

All corporate names are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security.


Aug 17 2020 · 33mins
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[The Cut the Crap Show] #175 - The Paradox of Choice with Barry Schwartz

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This episode of The Cut the Crap Show features author Barry Schwartz who breaks down his bestseller - The Paradox of Choice: Why More Is Less - into a handful of golden nuggets!

Sponsor: getAbstract. http://getab.li/rrx

Text Me📲: 1-917-540-8169

See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Jul 27 2020 · 43mins
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How To Prepare For Google’s Core Web Vitals Update with Barry Schwartz

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Join Barry Schwartz and John Lincoln as they discuss the pre-announced Google Update, Core Web Vitals.  

In this interview, you will learn how to think about the update and set your website up for success.  

Also in this interview, you will learn the future of AMP, schema, get tips on publishing content and thoughts on the Google BERT update.  

This is one premier you don’t want to miss!

Jun 11 2020 · 37mins
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The Paradox of Choice - Barry Schwartz on why more is less

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Having more choices is good right? Barry Schwartz thinks otherwise.

"In his 2004 book The Paradox of Choice , tackles one of the great mysteries of modern life: Why is it that societies of great abundance — where individuals are offered more freedom and choice (personal, professional, material) than ever before — are now witnessing a near-epidemic of depression? Conventional wisdom tells us that greater choice is for the greater good, but Schwartz argues the opposite: He makes a compelling case that the abundance of choice in today's western world is actually making us miserable. "

In this episode we explore making choices on:
- dating
- prioritization
- career
- eliminating choice
- decision making

By the end I had a practical framework for making choices in my life and tools to think less about low priorities.
May 16 2020 · 52mins
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Episode 10 - Buy Quality Businesses - Interview with Barry Schwartz

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Barry Schwartz is the Chief Investment Officer at Baskin Wealth Management. He is regularly featured on BNN Bloomberg's Market Call segment.
Feb 02 2020 · 56mins
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Barry Schwartz - The Paradox of Choice, Why We Work, & the Locus of Control! EP138

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Barry Schwartz is an American psychologist, professor, author, speaker and researcher. Schwartz is the Dorwin Cartwright Professor of Social Theory and Social Action at Swarthmore College. Schwartz's research addresses morality, decision-making and the inter-relationships between science and society. Barry Schwartz studies the link between economics and psychology, offering startling insights into modern life. Barry has millions of views of his Ted talks online.

I recently read his 2004 global best seller ‘The Paradox of Choice’ and was impacted by it greatly. So much of the research covered resonated with me and it was one of those reads that you can’t put down. What’s more interesting is that book is even more relevant today than it was 15 years ago when released. So, naturally I was delighted when Barry accepted the invitation to come on to the podcast and talk about his career, research, and latest work.

If you want to learn more about Barry and his work, I’ve provided links to his work at the end of the show notes.

To further entice you, here is a summary of what we covered.

•Which of the roles Barry plays is most interesting to him
•A life changing moment - taking a sabbatical in the early 1990s at Harvard to learn economics and evolutionary biology
•During this time, Barry started to write a personal narrative and found this process fascinating and it was the beginning of a book which ended up being a book (the Battle for Human Nature)
•Where did the plan to be a psychologist come from?
•Growing up in New York wanting to be a Baseball player, then a journalist
•Falling into his passion and the field of psychology by luck rather than design!
•BF Skinner’s field of psychology was the area of interest to Barry first – the psychology of learning field – How learning happens?
•Writing a text book on the psychology of learning
•Humans as creatures where everything we do is transactional
•Developing good arguments against BF Skinners theory
•What drives & motivates Barry
•Too much emphasis in psychology about collecting new empirical facts
•More interested in understanding these facts and the story of these together
•Using other’s research and tell a story that brings new understanding
•Barry’s core values
•The value of following your nose & not having a grand plan
•The way the workplace has evolved makes it harder for people to find work they have meaning in
•What is working for meaning now so mainstream and popular?
oLiving in good times but all it takes a major economic downturn and this can change things – this is a very unstable attitude
oThe Feminisation of the workplace - Women care more than men, and as Women form a larger % of the workforce, they demand that work matter!
•Emotional Intelligence – a slogan & how this impacts Barry’s work – when we want people to do the right thing – we rely on tools – sticks or carrots – instead of a desire to do the right thing because it’s the right thing!
•The Paradox of Choice – the relevance of the book still 15 years on
•Examples of how Netflix, Walmart and Amazon not fully learning the lesson
•Why are Netflix not taking on the advice in the book?
•People are acting against their own interests as they don’t understand the impacts
•The ability to rearrange a store online based on the choice
•Putting a label on the challenges people had with decision making
•Barry’s own key learnings from writing the book
oThe relation between Freedom & Choice
oMaximiser v Satisficers – so I started to reflect on a lot during reading
•Satisficing is not settling – it’s a standard and a choice to move forward
•Single most important thing – Good enough is almost always good enough!
•When to say good enough v seeking perfection?
•How age and good enough are linked
•Locus of Control & Freedom – how this ties into the decision making process
•How to select candidates for Ivy leagues schools? – make it a lottery?
•Nobody is willing to accept that important things in life happens by chance!
•The role of Luck in important things in life!!!!
•Current work & plans on the future – when all you have got is two kinds of jeans to choose from?
•Book Recommendations impactful on Barry?
oThe Economist Hour – Benjamin Applebaum – when the world started listening to economists and taking them seriously?
oRule Makes Rule Breakers – Michelle Gelfan
•One Minute Monday from Barry
oWhispering that Good Enough is good enough
oHow can I make meaning, not find meaning!!

Link to the Barry’s books
•Why We Work, Simon & Schuster/TED, 2015. (ISBN 9781476784861)[1]
•The Paradox of Choice - https://amzn.to/2qeNS5p
•Psychology of Learning and Behavior, with Edward Wasserman and Steven Robbins
•The Costs of Living: How Market Freedom Erodes the Best Things in Life, Xlibris Corporation, 2001. (ISBN 0-7388-5251-1)
•Learning and Memory, with Daniel Reisberg
•The Battle for Human Nature: Science, Morality and Modern Life
•Behaviorism, Science, and Human Nature, with Hugh Lacey, W. W. Norton & Company, 1983. (ISBN 0-393-01585-8)
•Practical Wisdom, with Kenneth Sharpe, Riverhead, 2010, (ISBN 978-1594487835)
Nov 22 2019 · 58mins
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Podcast on the SERPs, Content Marketing, Voice, and E-A-T with Barry Schwartz

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Hello Marketers! Thanks for taking time out of your day to check out the 12th installment of The Marketing Microscope Podcast! In this one, Manish, Taral, and myself welcome Barry Schwartz, editor on Search Engine Journal and operator of SEO Roundtable.

We start the podcast by talking about podcasts themselves. Google has recently started displaying podcast files directly on the SERPs. We get Barry’s take on how podcasters can play by the rules and get their content ranked. For reference, check out Google’s Developer Guidelines for Podcasts.

After a brief touch on video SEO, we unpack Rand Fishkin’s findings that less than half of organic traffic results in clicks. Should this concern SEOs?

Barry gives us his take on the changing nature of link building, as well as some of the most important ranking factors to consider – beyond quality content and links. SPOILER: Google’s recommendations are not laws written in stone!

As we begin to wrap up the first segment of the show, Barry shares his insight on the effects of Featured Snippets and some of the big patterns we’ve seen in Google’s recent algorithmic updates.

To kick off segment two, Barry tells us how he personally stays updated in SEO.  The key is to just keep reading and staying up-to-date on the industry chatter!

Given that SEO is the focus of this podcast, we felt obligated to ask Barry about his take on E-A-T – and if it’s really as important as everyone thinks. He also gives us some good wisdom on how SEOs should use the Quality Rater Guidelines.

Moving on from E-A-T, we ask Barry about some of his favorite SEO tools and whether some tasks are better carried out manually. From here, Manish takes the ball as we dive into the concept of voice search. More specifically, why it hasn’t caught on like many SEOs envisioned a few years back….

We touch on how voice search has evolved, as well as which types of businesses should be investing heavily in it and how they should do it. Basically, it comes down to ranking for Featured Snippets!

As episode 12 comes to a close, we get Barry’s take on citations and why they are so important for ranking on the local SERPs.

Barry closes out the podcast by giving his humble advice to the search community, as well as budding SEOs and bloggers!

To listen to more episodes of The Marketing Microscope, visit our website or check out our profiles on iTunes and Stitcher!

Oct 09 2019 · 55mins
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28 | Barry Schwartz – Algo Updates, Bing Imports from GMB and GSC, Authorship a

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Today Jeff Byer (@globaljeff) interviews Barry Schwartz (@rustybrick) about an unconfirmed algorithm update from last week, Bing Webmaster Tools adds import tool from Google Search Console, Bing Places adds an import tool from Google My Business, and much more.

About Barry Schwartz

About Barry Schwartz
Follow Barry on Twitter @rustybrick
Subscribe to Barry’s YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCp8Kv-cF9YfA-G33CRxv6SQ
Read Barry’s Blog https://www.seroundtable.com/

Episode Links & Mentions

Signs Of A Google Search Ranking Algorithm Update On August 29th
Google Search Ranking & Algorithm Update Over The Weekend?
Bing Places Also Lets You Import Your Google My Business Listings | August 30, 2019
Bing Webmaster Tools Lets You Verify Your Site Using Google Search Console | August 29, 2019
Google: We Try to Recognize Author Details, Reviewer Details & Overall Site Quality Details

ICYMI: Basecamp is forced to buy a Google Ad because competitors are bidding on its brand name – the ad calls it ransom – pretty smart https://t.co/V2Awml0FQA pic.twitter.com/1PaXZKcWQ5

— Barry Schwartz (@rustybrick) September 4, 2019



Jeff Byer: 00:08 Welcome to Digital Rage, the podcast about all things Internet from the people that make it great. My name is Jeff Byer and today we talked to Barry Schwartz. @Rustybrick on Twitter. He is a Google search engine nerd or a search geek is what he calls himself on Twitter. We talked about an unconfirmed algorithm update. We talked about Bing Webmaster tools, being able to import from Google search console, we talk about [inaudible]

Jeff Byer: 00:32 Bing Places being able to import from Google my business, which I didn’t see but other people are. So I’m going to dig a little deeper into that. We talk about authorship. We talk about the base camp, Google ad controversy, and if you need to purchase ads against your own brand name to [inaudible] competitors we talk about Google versus duck duck go, which is a interesting case about Google actually responding to naysayers. Talk about verifying, testing and citing your sources in your content. We talk about the tools that Barry uses and tools that barriers built. His blog is actually built on the custom platform that he made at his company that he owns with his brother called rescue brick. And we want everybody to go check out his youtube channel, rusty brick and subscribe so that he can build his subscribership. These video interviews or video intros are going to be part of the podcast going forward so that we have a presence on, on video channels and we also want to keep them under two 20 so that we can post them to Twitter. So that’s right.

Jeff Byer: 01:35 It enjoy the interview with Barry. So today we have Barry Scwartz on the podcast. He is a self-described search geek based in New York. You run search engine round table and his articles are often referenced by top SEOs as well as Google. How are you today?

Jeff Byer: 01:56 I’m good. Thanks for having me.

Jeff Byer: 01:57 Of course. Thank you for coming on. Do you mind letting us know how you got started in digital marketing and became the authority that you are today?

Barry Schwartz: 02:06 I Dunno if I’m an authority. I just read a lot. But I have a web development company called Rusty Brick. We started at my brother and I actually started in 1994 or so, we’ll know when we were in high school. And we build software. I don’t really do digital marketing, I just write about it. So my company really just build software, both, both desktop software that runs in the web as well as mobile applications that run obviously off your iPhone or android phone. And we do that for any types of purposes. In terms of the SEO stuff that I write about, search engine land and searches around table, it’s more of like a hobby. I don’t necessarily consider myself a journalist per se. I write a lot obviously, but it’s more of like a hobby for me where I just like to keep track of what’s going on and changing in the search industry. But I published a lot of that on my own site and that probably started I started writing search in 2003. And I really didn’t stop. I just kept writing and I probably write about five to 10, sometimes more articles per day just on search.

Jeff Byer: 03:12 So you are kind of an anomaly where you’re writing about a search for the sake of search where most people that own agencies are looking for answers on behalf of their current clients.

Barry Schwartz: 03:24 Yeah. Or they’re doing this to market their own agencies. So I just write about it because I find it interesting. I love the community and it’s a good way to keep track of what’s changing. It’s a, Google is a very fascinating company. Search engines in general are really fascinating and that’s the reason I write about it.

Jeff Byer: 03:42 So lately, have you seen an uptick in activity from Google as far as not only algorithm changes but the the features and options that are now available on the result pages? [inaudible]

Barry Schwartz: 03:59 No, actually it depends what you call feature. So the, if you go to Google and you want to do a search and you type in like, I don’t know, whatever you want to type in. And I was like, Google. And then you would have the options to filter by different search tools. So now you can filter by like time, like date range and other things. There used to be tons more of features in terms of how you can filter the search results.

Jeff Byer: 04:21 So the activity has been pretty consistent over the last couple of years as far as with their features and ad-ons

Barry Schwartz: 04:27 They’ve been removing features in terms of those types of features. I mean there’s other things like Google lens and Google maps that they are, so that type of stuff, the cool stuff that you’re seeing is stuff that the release hold time, but they’re also pulling back on a lot of features that they’ve launched years ago and no longer use. That includes technical features like certain types of markup like authorship or certain types of other features they released over the years. They removed that and now they’re big into Schema and they’re big into other things. So Google, like most technology companies, try things, see if it works, and then we’ll, you know, stop doing it if it’s not catching on or they find another better solution for it. You’ve seen that with Google’s multiple social networks you know, orchid, Google buzz, Google plus, et cetera. And you seen that with lots of services like Google reader tons of Google products, but specifically with search, like Google search just wants to make it easier for people to search without them having to use special features. So the info command or certain types of advanced search operators stop working over the years. Because Google says they don’t want, nobody really uses it, at least I guess a normal surgeon doesn’t use it. People like you and I probably who are more advanced searchers probably do use it.

Jeff Byer: 05:40 Yeah. I use filter by time all the time. If I’m looking for code examples or things like that. A post from 2015 is not gonna help. Right. So and also the, I noticed the image filters, they removed filters by size.

Barry Schwartz: 05:58 Yeah. That was just that was interesting. They removed the last week I asked for a comment. They did not give me a comment yet. I surely follow up. But before that they removed two by accident. So, I’m not sure if it was a bug they moved to by accident again or if it’s like a feature where they removed it because they don’t want to support it anymore. So it’s hard for me to know. They removed it I think hog a week or two ago. And people use it all the time. They want to find images specific size. They want to find images that are certain larger than a certain size and now they can do that. Only they can search for are by large, medium and icon.

Jeff Byer: 06:31 Yeah. And that was particularly helpful and I think that image search could have, you know, is a spot where Google could have a lot of improvements as far as usability and you know, knowing their audience and knowing the intent of the searcher that searching for images you know, editorial wise or content wise or just research,

Barry Schwartz: 06:55 Well, image search is a tough thing for them because there’s different laws of different countries. So I know over the past several years, Google has different user to come to digital rates on all things. Internet would have [inaudible] buyers and maybe top [inaudible], stuff like that. Rusty brick on Twitter. I think also a lot of the filter [inaudible] search Geek is what he calls his cell phone to Twitter. We talked about outgrow settlements with them in terms of tools. Don’t reference Google search console, talk about it being places being downloaded from, we didn’t click on the image itself, but other people are and that changed little years ago that we tried out the basecamp, Google ad, go onto [inaudible] or whatever you need to purchase on brand name, shoe as competitors. We talked about Google versus Dow in case watermarks. Actually responding to naysayers, right? Verifying, testing and citing your sources in your content.

Barry Schwartz: 07:56 You used to talk about the tools that Barry uses and tools is a blog is images from life stock are getting off in this stuff or the brother called restaurant brick and just separate buddy to go check out his rusty brick doc and subscribe it just so you can build your subscriber ship. These video interviews or video interests are going to be part of the podcast going forward so that we have a [inaudible] recap. Those are posted video channels and we also want to keep them under 20 Twitter updates. Enjoy the interview with Barry Schwartz. Yeah. So I mean I track the, the chatter of an SEO community. I’ve been doing that for yeah, for five, 15 years. And when I see the SEO community start to like spike up and say, Hey, my rankings have changed, then it kind of symbols. It’s kind of, you know, signals that something’s going on with the Google search algorithm and maybe there’s some type of filter.

Barry Schwartz: 08:52 Maybe there’s some type of penalty who maybe was some algorithm update. Maybe there’s manual actions. So it’s hard for me to know exactly what’s going on. The chatter from over the weekend or you know, just recently, like earlier this week was not as strong as maybe like a penguin update from the past or a panned update from the past or even these core updates. Google hasn’t confirmed anything around his updates. So Google says they don’t confirm from all updates anyway. They only confirmed the larger updates. And I haven’t heard anything from them, so it’s hard for me to tell you what it is. But there’s definitely a lot of webmasters. That’s why master is saying, Hey, we got hit or we did better on August 29th or August 28th. And the actual tools that track these updates like Moz cast certain metrics, you know, rank, ranger, SCM, rush, all these types of SEO tools that track the changes in the Google search results are also showing that change.

Barry Schwartz: 09:49 But again, it’s not as significant as a massive core update or the old fashioned penguin and panda updates. But they’re definitely, in my opinion, was some type of update that Google did not confirm. Gotcha. And the only way to really find out anything about it is to dive in and do a lot of research and find out, you know, topics. So sometimes like bigger updates, I’ll do a survey asking the SEO community to send me their sites. Sometimes I’ll get like 500 to a thousand different websites that say they got hit or they, they actually changed the rankings. I’ll ask them to fill out a survey saying, what was the site? What did you see in terms of traffic changes up, down the same. What was the day you got hit a bunch of questions and then I’ll analyze the sites themselves and I’ll say, all right.

Barry Schwartz: 10:31 The sites either have, are very at in general, are very ad heavy or maybe they’re, a lot of them have bad links or maybe they’re in this specific industry or that specific industry. It’s been harder to find the pattern with Google updates recently because it’s not really one thing. Penguin was about links. A panda was specifically around content. Google has, you know, algorithms that look for add pages that have lots of ads that are distracting. It’s never, it hasn’t been the past couple of years. One thing that would actually hurt a website, and it’s always hard to like pinpoint that this is the issue. Back when Google released on August 1st of last year, 2018, I kind of named that update, the medic update because I saw based on the survey results that a good, like 70% of the sites that were submitted to me were literally in the medical health, fitness, health and wellness type of field.

Barry Schwartz: 11:23 And then the next time you Google did a core update, I did another survey, it was more financial related. I’m going to, Google is kind of saying, yeah, we do have this concept of y m y l your money, your life, which is around financial websites, banking, websites, health websites, medical websites, PR, you know, those, those types of things. That core updates actually have a stricter I guess core updates in a stricter sense on where they want to make sure the content on those websites are much more authoritative and written by experts. So my theories on that or some of the early SEO people are on that concept where correct. Although it wasn’t just specific to medic and I probably shouldn’t have named named and medic. But you know, you got to give it some name. So

Jeff Byer: 12:05 Yeah, the name stuck definitely. And a, I had a client specifically that got hit pretty hard. We had them ranking number one for all of their key terms for up to two years at that point. And they make on an oxygen analyzer device. So they don’t actually claim anything about health specifically, but they make a product that serves the health community and they got slammed. And now it was more it’s more apparent that the reason they got slammed is they don’t have any authorship and they don’t have a ton of, of authority. And the claims that they make are not really verifiable because it’s their product. And then they’re up against some huge brands that have a huge built in authority. Right. So, so I also picked up a little report that you said that being places is now offering an import for Google my business.

Barry Schwartz: 13:03 Yeah. So that was interesting. At first, it was the first day before that actually reported that Google, sir, oh, sorry. That big webmaster tools lets you import your Google search console sites, right? So for a couple of weeks before that I saw Martin split, who’s from Google reach out to the big webmaster tools team. And I guess they stopped by basically what happened was they figured out a way to say, all right, let’s find a quick way to import all those sites. We have verified Google search console directly in my big webmaster tools. So now if you have big, you’re not really using big web at big web master tools and you are using Google search console, you could just go right into bing, bing webmaster tools, login, click the import button and they’ll do some type of verification authentication to import all the sites you have verified already with Google search console.

Barry Schwartz: 13:48 So it just gives you more access to more tools or [inaudible] tools. And I know being web master tools is actually investing more these days than they ever have in the past or in the past few years, at least on that and the suite of products. So definitely take a look at that. It doesn’t hurt to have more data. Also they, after our report of that basically big places, which is equivalent to the Google my business center is lets you sync your, your places. So if you add a new place, I guess in Google my business it’ll sync over to big, big places as well.

Jeff Byer: 14:22 Yeah. So I saw the, the, the search console sync. I didn’t see the Google my business think in a, in the bing places interface. So I’m not sure if that’s actually rolled out to everybody or are possibly just specific to, to certain users.

Barry Schwartz: 14:41 I think it’s rolled out to everybody. I mean, there’s two different things. So one is bing webmaster tools and one of them being places. So yeah, I would think if you log in now, you probably probably see it. You don’t see the big webmaster tools at all?

Jeff Byer: 14:54 No. I only, I took a screenshot of the search console, but I didn’t see it in being places I didn’t see an import button for Google my business.

Barry Schwartz: 15:08 Yeah, I see. I mean, you saw my screenshot. Yeah.

Jeff Byer: 15:09 Right, right. And that’s why I immediately went in there to try and sink them and, and didn’t see it. So maybe it’s just a slower roll out or or I’d need to dig a little deeper, but I figured it would just be right there on the, on the home page of my places.

Barry Schwartz: 15:27 It is, it’s right on the top for me. I log into being places the dashboard, the first option I have here is sync with my Google my business. I felt that’s been around for a lot longer actually than the big webmaster tools. But I could be wrong. So,

Jeff Byer: 15:40 Yeah. So I don’t see it, but we can research that a little later. So also would you consider yourself a friend of Google? You have a good relationship with them?

Barry Schwartz: 16:01 I don’t know what that means exactly and I can tell you this. So there are many Googlers that don’t like what I have to say. There are many Googlers that understand why I write when I write sometimes. And there’s many Google was at like, what I have to say. I’m the same time, there’s many SEOs that feel like I’m a Google fanboy and there’s many Googlers that feel like I hate Google. So you can’t win fast. It makes sense.

Jeff Byer: 16:27 Yeah. And from what, from my experience, what I see is, is you’re very fair about how you report and what you report. And so why I’m bringing this up is your recent riding on the base camp Google that and, and so that issue, it’s an issue that I’ve had to deal with as well is that, you know, you ranked number one, but you’ve got your competitors ranking above you and you have to combat that. Have you ever suspected Google to strike back at shots, fired against them using their own tools? So

Barry Schwartz: 17:07 I mean, the whole base camp thing kind of surprised me that it got so much attention. It’s literally like on CNBC and stuff like that or CNN or one of these sites, it’s getting a lot of attention. Huh. It surprised me because this is a strategy that’s been, that the SCM community and PPC community been using for years. I mean, you do, you see the back in the early days of Superbowl commercials or were airing and the competitor and the person who air the super called commercial wouldn’t go ahead and bid on their own brand name. So you, let’s say for example, you would have, I don’t know, KFC advertising in the Superbowl and then McDonald’s will go ahead and [inaudible] out at the McDonald’s, go ahead and like bid on the keyword KFC Subaru commercial and say, all right, you know, this is our ad. Instead a was even see that happening for it for years and it, it, it costs pennies to bid on your bid.

Barry Schwartz: 17:54 Nick, your name and I’ll see, I don’t think it’s a big deal to be honest. I don’t think it’s a big deal that Google allows you to bid on like base camp at Hec base camp can mean a thousand things. Obviously it’s a brand, but base camp is also that could be a base camp. It’s not, it’s a generic keyword phrase. But Google has very strict rules by country on the ad side. What people could bid on in terms of trademarks and so forth. And they stick by that. So they’ve changed those rules over the years. I don’t think they’ve changed it recently. But they’re very clear guidelines around that. So I, it just funny that it got so much attention. And of course the ad is very, very cute. You don’t want to run this ad and we’re doing this against our will. We’re forced to pay it’s ransom. It’s against a giant tech company. We’re a small little company based on base camp is a small little company relative to Google but not to you. And I guess so.

Jeff Byer: 18:45 So do you think Google has ever taken adverse action to people using their tools against them or attempting to,

Barry Schwartz: 18:54 Hmm. I don’t know. I mean, this is, I don’t know if this lecture they take, I mean

Jeff Byer: 18:57 Slander them, you know,

Barry Schwartz: 18:59 They might say this ad is not relevant and they might take down the specific ad based in their guidelines. But no, I mean, people beat up Google and times they bad things about them. I was only penalized once and I say bad things about them all the time. So yes, I don’t think so. The two big to go ahead and say, oh, this person’s talking bad about me or this company’s talking bad about me and take action. Yeah. I have to act like, but the doctor [inaudible] was interesting. So I don’t know if you saw that Danny Sullivan, like that goes constant coming out with negative stuff around Google cause you know, privacy and this and that. And Danny Sullivan actually responded directly to DuckDuckGo and then I saw him, he now works for Google. And he’s basically saying this and this allegation about from Dr [inaudible] saying about Google is incorrect. We don’t have filter bubbles. We don’t have that much personalization. And personalization doesn’t put you in this filter bubble. And he actually responds, it’s the first time Google actually responded, or a person who will actually respond to the doctor, go from my opinion. So sometimes they take debate, sometimes they don’t.

Jeff Byer: 20:03 Yeah. and then recently you posted your interview with Marie Haines. When was that recorded?

Barry Schwartz: 20:12 That was at Mozcon in Seattle like a couple of months ago. Okay. Yeah, I’ve been doing a lot of, so besides for the Friday recaps and trying to get more blogging going, so video blogs, video blogs and just going, well I, I probably have about 30 videos. I published about half of them so far. And I’m going to keep it going. So probably once a week, probably on Wednesdays going forward. Just a video of a personality and the SEO Industry. So if you ever, I don’t know what your base, maybe I could stop by your office one day

Jeff Byer: 20:45 A la anytime you’re in la, come on by.

Barry Schwartz: 20:47 Yeah. Yeah. So why, why? My rule was I have to do it in person cause it, you know, I could always do it over Skype and no offense to Skype, but it’s something about being in person with somebody that will be cool and I go to enough conferences and I travel enough that I could probably make it happen. So hopefully I’ll see you in la soon.

Jeff Byer: 21:02 Yeah, I was going to try and make it to pubcon. Are you going to be Vegas?

Barry Schwartz: 21:07 Won’t be a pubcon is always almost always on a Jewish holiday. So I was at pubcon last year as you may know and it’s been a while since they’ve been there before that because it’s always on a Jewish holiday. And I told them I wanted this like search personality award thing and I told, and they said, you have to come back in the new year after to give the, they give you this little tight Tiara or whatever, $10 tr and you have to like give to the next person, like crown the next, you know, winter. And I’m like, I looked it up when I was right after the, after I got the award. I’m like, you know, the dates you have there is like on Yom Kippur, which is like the most holy as Jewish holiday. There’s no way I could go. So like, oh, we’ll figure it out. But they didn’t change the day. It’s so there’s no way I could go. I in Pumpkins, a fun, fun event. I wish I could go, but it’s just a shame.

Jeff Byer: 21:53 Yeah. that’s unfortunate cause yeah, I’ve, I like meeting people in person and yes, Skype is, is an impersonal way to to get these interviews done. But but since I’ve just started out and meeting people in real life is definitely one of my goals moving into the next year. So

Barry Schwartz: 22:12 No, I mean it’s definitely is the most these things are done over Skype or Google hangouts or whatever. And it was great. It’s just I bought this little camera on him, I don’t have in my bag over there. So DGI pocket camp and I brought him cause look cool. I’m like, now what am I gonna do with it? So I’m like, alright, maybe I’ll just start doing blogging. So I technically I can’t use Skype with it. It’s just like a little like cool camera. So forcing myself to meet people and stuff.

Jeff Byer: 22:40 Yeah, it’s always a great, great thing to do. So with your your Marie Haynes episode, you know, everything, Marie Haynes, I always ended up talking to her about eat and what it means. And in your in your September Google Webmaster report, Google says, you know, you’ve pointed out specifically in the video that Google tries to recognize author details. What does that mean? I mean, if you’re, if you’re an author and you have an authorship page, but they’re still trying to recognize author details. Is that no,

Barry Schwartz: 23:17 I don’t think Google doesn’t look at authorship anymore. I wish they did. I used to, I used to love it when they had authorship. I used to love it when they had authorship. There because even whenever SEOs did searches, your little photo would come off and would always be like a photo of you and the Google search results. But Google says numerous times, they don’t look at authorship is not something they look at anymore, but s some way Google’s able to figure out who wrote what piece of content, if they’re authoritative and so forth. And it’s clear. I mean, I quoted John Mueller numerous times of what he said around that. So I, it was, I mean I would just re read what he wrote or read what he said and you can interpret it multiple ways. Cause the way John has talked this kind of cryptic, so I don’t necessarily put words in his mouth.

Barry Schwartz: 23:59 I tried to quote him a lot and I try not to necessarily I have to write a title for this, for the story. So I recognize all the details, reviewer details and overall site quality, you know, details. But then I just try to quote them as much because then, you know, I don’t want people to take me out of context or him in that context. But I, I do think they have some way of figuring out is this content written by a specific type of expert in the area? And Google did say, I think a few, maybe a month or two ago, how they actually go ahead and recognize or how he would go. I asked somebody that, John Mueller, how would you go about recognizing that? And they’re like, well, we have a, say we have a big index and we’re able to see how, you know, us, they have a hundred competitors and 80 of those competitors are writing this about this topic and you’re writing that something else about that topic.

Barry Schwartz: 24:52 Then then obviously if you’re writing differently than maybe your stuff is not as accurate as maybe as the rest, maybe stuff like that. And then, you know, if you have these sections of your website, but your competitors have those sections on your website, maybe you should also be covering it, know, covering these details that you’re not constantly because everybody else is covering those details. And that’s what he kind of said. There’s probably an article there in that recap how they recognize high quality content and stuff like that. But yeah, I mean, I’ve written so much about, it’s, it’s hard to say how Google exactly does that, but there was a a video of John Mueller talking about that I think a month or two ago. Like I send you a link to it if you want to. She needed.

Jeff Byer: 25:34 Yeah, I’ve got it. I’ve got it open and I plucked a little pieces out of it. And one thing I plucked out of there is that author data should not be hidden in the Schema but made public, so they’re gonna treat whatever they can find about the author that’s public and viewable to the user rather than just in the Schema a, they’re gonna respect that a little bit more. And so what I was trying to do is figure out if we had content that was based on a authority that was mostly an offline authority, didn’t have much of an online presence, or would that still count?

Barry Schwartz: 26:17 Yes. I don’t think it’s, again, I don’t think it’s specifically about that specific person writing that content. It’s more about what the content says, if that makes sense.

Jeff Byer: 26:28 Right. So it’s not a, so what Marie Haynes was saying is that they’re, they’re trying to penalize people who post things that are not of a generally accepted opinion, especially with medical issues.

Barry Schwartz: 26:48 I Dunno. I mean, there’s lots of theories out there. I don’t, I, I don’t know for sure. I don’t think it’s penalties and as I say, but I mean, how does somebody know that somebody is really a doctor? I mean, you see a link to their hospital profile on this different website. Maybe Google’s able to pick up, all right, this doctor has a profile on, I don’t know, this medical center website or that medical center website, but how do you actually verify, is there a list of, I guess maybe there’s some type of database of approved doctors dos versus certain types of doctors versus, I know Chiropractor, I mean, where do you go from there? And I don’t, I’ve never heard Google actually say they have a database of doctors. I don’t know.

Jeff Byer: 27:27 Yeah. And so it leads to a, another question that bill Slawsky asked, which I find very important is what is, what source do you use for reliable, verifiable SEO information?

Barry Schwartz: 27:46 Me? Yeah. I mean in the [inaudible] obviously you can go with what Google says. You go with what SEO, say you go with the different SEO studies have said bought the best SEOs testings and see what works. Because what works for one, what works for one site might not work for the next site. What works for your agency might not work for a different agency. And the truth is what works within your agency for one client might not work for what’s it within your agency for another client. So it’s really, it’s interesting. I think you kind of test and you’ve got to test on a client by client basis and not just even across all your clients. So, you know, adding, I don’t know, a h three tag on a webpage worked for client day. It might not work for client B and there’s multiple SEOs, I’ve come out and said, hey, you know, this case study worked really well for these three clients of ours, buffer the other 30 clients that did nothing. So sometimes we think what works is not really what really works. So just keep testing

Jeff Byer: 28:49 Great. Taz, you know, and, and you are often cited as a source and that’s why I introduced you as an authority because you do do that testing and you listen to a lot of people who are doing the testing as well and report on that and you cite your sources, which is really important. So, yeah.

Barry Schwartz: 29:06 Yeah. I always say my, I, I think the web was built with hyperlinks and I think it’s very important to link places. It’s a shame. I mean, a lot of what Google was all about was about links and of course that kind of really internet because now nobody links out anymore because they’re afraid of being penalized. But I’m still gonna link out forever and link, try to always link to the piece of the source that I got the information from because community is amazing and you have to credit those who find what they find.

Jeff Byer: 29:31 Yeah. Well, it’s, it’s definitely helping us as consumers of your content. So thank you very much for doing that. The last couple of questions before we wrap up. What are the tools that you use on a daily basis?

Barry Schwartz: 29:48 So I use a bunch of tools. I guess Feedly is one for tracking RSS feeds and different types of keyword subscriptions. I use on a desktop and mobile. I use I have my own internal tools. I build a tool for tracking different things. Internally. I actually use a lot of bookmarks as well, believe it or not. I use my own [inaudible] I built a lot of internal software. My company is a software development company, so we have a lot of internal software for, for everything. In fact even searches around that will be pulled out a custom CMS platform. I am big into email, I have to, I use tweet deck social media, all this type of stuff. So, but my finger I probably use the most is probably a Feedly and probably Feedly is the thing I use the most. In terms of for the SEO stuff I do.

Jeff Byer: 30:39 Okay. And do you have a, anything to promote where people can follow you? Where people can find more information? About you.

Barry Schwartz: 30:47 Sure. so my profiles at rusteberg.com/berry, I’m on Twitter, active or reactive at rusty brick. And also obviously searches around tables, searches are land, and if you can, I’m trying to get more subscribers to my youtube channel. So everybody who’s listening to this and watching this they say, and youtube world smashed out like button and subscribe and hit that bell.

Jeff Byer: 31:12 Fantastic. Hadn’t called rusty brick. So check it out. Fantastic. I already did that and the contents. Amazing. So thank you very much for your time. This has been very helpful. And we will have this out for you to, to review on Monday.

Jeff Byer: 31:28 Sounds good. Thank you. All right, thank you for show notes and information. Go to digital rates.fm. Follow us on Twitter and Instagram at digital rage at Bam. And please give us a rate and review it. Sincerely appreciate it.

Sep 09 2019 · 31mins