Cody Payne specializes in selling investment offices and industrial buildings in Dallas Fort Worth. He’s been in business for 15 years and runs an 8 person investment sales team. Over the past 12 years, Cody has closed over 500 commercial real estate transactions. Combined with Colliers International platform and Cody’s extensive knowledge and expertise of leasing, management, market conditions, and business,The Payne Office and Industrial Team provide their clients and investors the opportunity to maximize value while creating a competitive advantage that yields the best result.[00:01 – 02:09] Opening SegmentLet’s get to know Cody PayneCody talks about his background[02:10 – 11:57] Texas Office InvestmentsAsset classes they work inThe state of the office space in the Dallas Fort Worth areaOpportunities in the office spaceA high-velocity tenantOffice leases in the Dallas Fort Worth areaOptions for a large tenant in opting out early on leases[11:58 – 20:56] Flex Industrial space in DallasInvesting in flex industrial space in DallasMetal building price increases in the past 12 monthsThings to consider when getting into flex or industrial[20:57 – 24:32] Closing SegmentCody’s advice to aspiring investorsBe patient and align yourself with specialistsHow he stays on top of his gameHis way to make the world a better placeHow to reach out to Cody – links belowFinal wordsTweetable Quotes:“I think there’s definitely a good future for the office space, it’s just about knowing what to buy, how to buy, and what your strategy is, even with any other real estate investment.” - Cody Payne“Aligning yourself with specialists, being patient, and doing your research is going to save you a lot of headaches and money.” - Cody Payne“Being active as possible is the key to victory.” - Cody PayneResources Mentioned: Colliers------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Connect with Cody on Linkedin. Visit https://texasofficeinvestments.com/ and https://www.colliers.com/enConnect with me:I love helping others place money outside of traditional investments that both diversify strategy and provide solid predictable returns.Call: 901-500-6191FacebookLinkedInLike, subscribe, and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, or whatever platform you listen on. Thank you for tuning in! Email me --> firstname.lastname@example.org
Our guest today is Cody Payne, an office and industrial investment specialist. In this episode, we dig deep into the office and industrial asset class, talk about the dos and don’ts, and the best ways to invest. If you want to know how to invest in office or industrial during the pandemic or how to build relationships with brokers to get the best deals, this episode is for you! Learn more about Cody and his journey at reiclarity.com! “I don't like having a tenant that has more than 15% or 20% of the building. Because in the event that they leave, you’re in trouble.” 03:24 Cody specializes in the office and industrial asset classes. Recently, he sees many multifamily investors getting interested in commercial investing as the entry barrier is much lower due to the pandemic. Cody’s advice on how to invest in office the right way: Invest in multitenant offices, because the risk is spread out more. If it’s possible, don’t let a tenant have more than 15-20% of the building. This way, vacancy is not that risky and the lease rolls better too. Try to find a space that is around 2-5000 sq ft. Investing in office space in the middle of the pandemic can be risky. Therefore Cody suggests focusing on smaller businesses like lawyers, accountants, or similar general businesses. He suggests staying away from technology companies, where they can work from home and the larger national companies because their leases in some cases are very long. 19:40 What to look out for when investing in industrial buildings Know the area very well where you plan to invest. Understand your risk: know what to do if the building becomes vacant, or if the building needs a bigger renovation. Keep it as minimal office as possible, around 10-15%, to minimize the cost. Find a specialist who understands the product, because office and industrial buildings are one of the most expensive asset classes to operate. “What we like is a strong, credible, “ready to execute” buyer.” 29:25 Cody talks about the ways to find the best brokers for your deals and how to build a good relationship with them. Specify who you would want to connect with. In the office and industrial space, it is important to look for a specialist instead of a generalist. Create a list of the best specialists in the town where you want to invest in and contact them. Instead of just asking, always provide value. If you are a new investor, find an experienced team to be credible for the brokers. According to Cody, the 3 main things that can ruin the relationship over time are not being a serious buyer, reliable, or responsive. Mentioned in the show: https://texasofficeinvestments.com/ His LinkedIn www.shineinsurance.com/reiclarity Learn how to grow your portfolio and reach incredible success the right way! Visit us here for everything you need to know: www.shineinsurance.com/reiclarity. Special thanks to Cody Payne for taking the time to share so many great insights with us If you enjoyed this podcast, there’s a couple of things we need you to do right now: SUBSCRIBE to REI Clarity on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts While your there, please RATE & REVIEW the show SHARE with friends Finally, please, JOIN the REI Clarity Facebook Group Then, please share the show with whoever you think it will inspire. Until the next time, We truly appreciate you listening. Need the REI Insurance Guy? More great stories & information at: Youtube - Blog - Podcast Facebook - Twitter
Today’s guest is Cody Payne, Senior Vice President at Colliers International in Fort Worth, Texas. He specializes in selling office and industrial investment properties in the Dallas-Fort Worth market. In the last 15 years, Cody has closed more than 600 hundred commercial real estate transactions. Before joining Colliers International, Cody worked at Sperry Van Ness/Dunn Commercial for 10 years, where he specialized in office and industrial investment sales, management, and leasing. He has extensive experience in the office and industrial leasing sector having worked with many major companies from Local/Regional to Fortune 500 companies and GSA leases. Let’s jump into Cody’s story and learn the benefits of investing in office spaces. [00:01 – 08:27] Opening Segment I introduce our guest, Cody Payne Cody shares his background and walks us through his journey into the real estate business He talks about their current projects, including several large office portfolios He also talks about his company’s performance during the COVID-19 pandemic [08:28 – 13:54] Flexing the Industrial Spaces Cody talks about flex industrial spaces and why they are in-demand right now He shares the kind of buyers they have in their business Cody talks about the similarities and differences between industrials and multifamily properties [13:55 – 26:41] Investing in Office Spaces Cody tells us more information about office spaces you don’t want to miss! Cody also shares some secrets to be successful in the office space market He includes some strategies to boost the Net Operating Income He shares his company’s performance during the COVID-19 pandemic and his outlook on the future Does the work from home setup affect their business? He talks about the opportunities in the office space business right now [26:42 – 27:59] Closing segment I asked Cody what title he would give to his biography book, which will be written by his great-grandkids. “Out for Justice,” inspired by the Steven Seagal film Connect with Cody. See the links below Tweetable Quotes “The office, I believe, is one of the more sophisticated asset classes.” – Cody Payne “Understanding the office side is very key.” – Cody Payne You can connect with Cody Payne via LinkedIn and Facebook, and Instagram. Email him at email@example.com or call him at 972-345-6500. Check out their website at https://texasofficeinvestments.com/ and their social media accounts: Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn. Also visit Colliers International online at https://www2.colliers.com/en, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn. Texas Office Investments: Website - https://texasofficeinvestments.com Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/texasofficeinvestments Twitter - https://twitter.com/tx_investments Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/texasofficeinvestments/ LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/texas-office-industrial-investments/ Colliers International: Website - https://www2.colliers.com/en Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/colliersinternational Twitter - https://twitter.com/colliers?lang=en Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/colliersinternational/ LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/colliers-international/ LEAVE A REVIEW + help someone who wants to explode their business growth by sharing this episode. I believe that you only need a small axe to build a lasting empire. Let’s start building yours! To know more about me and all the real estate opportunities you can find, you can connect with me on LinkedIn, Instagram, and Facebook or check out my website https://smallaxecommunities.com/ and book a call with me.
The Office and Industrial Powerhouse with Cody Payne
Cody Payne is Senior Vice President at Colliers International in Fort Worth, Texas. Cody, together with his team, is a powerhouse in the office and industrial real estate sector. Over the past 15 years, Cody has closed more than 600 commercial real estate transactions, and when he is not busy doing deals, he is busy driving his corvette and the other cool wheels he is sporting.[00:01 – 09:55] Introducing Cody PayneWe talk about Cody's show, The Office Industrial ConnectionCody gives a bit of background about himselfWho is Cody outside of the office?[09:56 – 17:02] The Office and Industrial PowerhouseWith the effects of COVID, Cody shares his view of where the office and industrial space are headed."Respect should be taught in school."[17:03 – 28:44] THE FINAL FOURWhat's the worst job that you ever had?"I don't feel like I've ever had a bad job."What's a book you've read that has given you a paradigm shift?The 10X Rule by Grant CardoneWhat is a skill or talent that you'd like to learn?Learn another language, probably Spanish.What does success mean to you?It's not about money. It's about being the best at what you want to do and what you want to be.Connect with Cody online. See the links below.Final thoughts Tweetable Quotes:"Texas is, what people realize is, I believe the most important economy in the United States. – Cody Payne"If this is what you want to do if this is what you want to be. You need to get rid of those some other stuff in your life and take that time and put it towards this." - COdy Payne"Success is being the top in your field and success is literally I believe almost restarted every day." – Cody PayneResources Mentioned:The Office Industrial ConnectionYou can connect with Cody on LinkedIn. Visit the Texas Office Investments website to know more.WHERE CAN I LEARN MORE?Be sure to follow me on the below platforms:Subscribe to the podcast on Apple, Spotify, Google, or Stitcher.LinkedInYoutubeExclusive Facebook Groupwww.yonahweiss.comNone of this could be possible without the awesome team at Buzzsprout. They make it easy to get your show listed on every major podcast platform.Support the show (https://www.buymeacoffee.com/weissadvice)
20: Tricks To Sell Commercial Real Estate Properties For Top Dollar - Cody Payne, Colliers International
Commercial Real Estate Confidential (#CRE)
In this Episode, Andrew Bermudez, CEO of Digsy, interviews Cody Payne from Colliers International on how he goes about looking at a property and selling it for top dollar.CODY PAYNE LINKS* Cody Payne: https://www.linkedin.com/in/codypayne* Phone: (972) 345-6500* Email: firstname.lastname@example.orgDIGSY LINKS* Never Miss A Deal In The Market Again (Digsy Tool): https://youtu.be/PpZosF3AskQ* Find More Tenants & Buyers - Post Free CRE Listings on Digsy: www.getdigsy.comSOCIAL (ANDREW BERMUDEZ)* LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewbermudez* Twitter https://twitter.com/andrewbermudez* Facebook https://www.facebook.com/andrewgbermudez* Instagram https://www.instagram.com/andrewbermudezSOCIAL (DIGSY, INC)* Twitter: https://twitter.com/getdigsy* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/digsy* Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/getdigsy* Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/digsyinc* YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC35yaCB70N9D9K0zB1yGzmw#CRE #CommercialRealEstate #RealEstate #LeadGeneration #Marketing #CREMarketing
CSC 40 Cody Payne: Top Commercial Real Estate Brokerage
Creek Side Chats With Successful Real Estate Investors
Cody Payne is Senior Vice President at Colliers International in Fort Worth, Texas and specializes in selling Office and Industrial investment properties in the Dallas/Fort Worth market. Over the past 15 years, Cody has closed more than 600 commercial real estate transactions. Combined with Colliers International Platform and Cody’s extensive knowledge and expertise of leasing, management, market conditions and business, The Texas Office & Industrial Group provides their clients and investors the opportunity to maximize value while creating a competitive advantage that yields the best results. Prior to joining Colliers International, Cody worked with Sperry Van Ness/Dunn Commercial for 10 years, where he specialized in Office and Industrial investment sales, management and leasing. Cody has extensive experience in the Office and Industrial leasing sector having worked with many major companies from Local/Regional to Fortune 500 companies and GSA leases. Key Accomplishments: Top 35 Under 35 designation in 2009 and 2010 from Black’s Guide. Sperry Van Ness / Dunn Commercial – Top Producer – 5 Years in a Row Special Achievement Marcus & Millichap 2016, 2017 & 2018 Connect with Cody 972-345-6500 email@example.com ___________________________________ Want to appear on our podcast? Contact Us Learn how you can passively put your hard earned money to work for you through multifamily syndication: Steed Talker Capital Connect with Us: Facebook Twitter Linkedin Instagram Youtube
SK035 - Perspectives of a Commercial Broker within the COVID-19 Pandemic w/ Cody Payne
Premium Cashflow Podcast
Cody Payne is the Senior Vice President at Colliers International in Dallas-Fort Worth at the Capital Markets Group. He and his team of 20 people actively work on Sale/Lease of Industrial/Office/Retail/Medical facilities within the DFW Metro areas. In the podcast episode, Cody shares the history and growth of DFW metro and the current State of the Market in Dallas within the Covid-19 pandemic era.
Ep#52 Getting to Know office and Industrial Asset Class with Cody Payne and Michael Tran
Achieve Wealth Through Value Add Real Estate Investing Podcast
James: Hey, audience and listeners, this is James Kandasamy from Achieve Wealth Through Value-add Real Estate Investing. Today, I've Cody Payne and Michael Tran from Colliers International out of Dallas market. Hey guys, why don't you say hi to our audience and why don't you introduce what you guys do? Michael: Oh, Hey everybody. Michael here. You know, we focus mainly on multitenant, mid-rise office buildings or industrial buildings or industrial parks. Anything between three to 25 mil is our typical range that we work on. Cody: And I'm Cody Payne and I work with Michael and that pretty much sums it up pretty well. We sell investment office and industrial buildings in Dallas Fort Worth. James: Got it, got it. So you guys are brokers, right? Do you own any of these as well? Cody: Yeah, actually we do, we actually just did a syndication not long ago where we pulled together a few investors and bought a portfolio of five office buildings down the mid-cities. And we've even done some development also. James: Got it. So office and industrial; nobody has talked about this asset class in the show. So I want to go really deep into how people make money out of this asset class because I'm a multifamily guy. I'm so used to multifamily and a lot of people knows multifamily very well. It's like seems to be like the only asset class out there. Right? But I'm sure there's a lot of people out there who's killing it in industrial and office. Right? So, I want to go deep into, you know, how an active investor would look at these two asset classes and you guys absolutely will be you know, giving a lot of value in this discussion. So let's start with industrial. Can we define what is an industrial asset class and how does it look like when I drive by, how can I say this is industrial and is there any different types of industrial that I need to be aware of when I drive by and when I'm going to look at something? Cody: Yeah, absolutely. So industrial is going to be, you know, your big box, tall, concrete warehouses that you'll see as you're driving along the freeway or in some other parts. These things can range anywhere from tenants utilizing just a couple thousand square feet up to a large shipping receiving warehouse that you'll see, that can be half a million-million square feet. A lot of things that I think a lot of people are familiar with is, seeing those tall, 24 36 foot tall concrete structures where a lot of 18 wheelers are backed up to that are loading, unloading, cross-docking and things of that nature. That's what your typical image of a warehouse industrial is. And a lot of people look for that and that's one of the key asset classes that a lot of investors are looking for right now. James: Well, so you said a lot of investors, I mean, it's a very relative term, right? And I'm not sure you guys know how much people invest in multifamily. So is that same equal in people investing in industrial and office or is it like coming from your knowledge in a multifamily is like crazily too many people and industrial is like a niche [03:26unclear] ? Cody: So the office and industrial it is a little more niche. I wouldn't say there's as many buyers for it as there is for multifamily. I mean, you, obviously there's a lot more multi-families than there are mid-rise office buildings, especially out here in Dallas, Fort Worth and even in Texas as a whole. But it's very niche specific. And so, that's why a lot of times you'll see a multifamily guy refer out if someone's looking at buying an office building or even vice versa. Because we won't sell a multifamily complex just because we're not as aware of it but the buyer pool is still very good. We get a lot of multifamily people, especially over the past three, four or five years, that have really started to hone in on the office industrial market as compared to my 10 years prior to that. James: Got it. Got it. Yeah. Even in my book, I mentioned that, you know, all these asset classes, they are somebody who's really good at these asset classes. And a lot of passive investors just look to, you know, seek to this kind of operators who are really good at industrial office or multifamily. There are people who specialize in this and they're really, really good at it so they have to seek for that operators. So that's good to know. It's very niche market. So, coming back to industrial, how do I identify a sub-market...how do I find an industrial, which is a really good, in terms of location, how do I say if I look at this building, I can say that this building is in a really good industrial location. How do I say that? What are the factors I need to look at? Michael: You know, one of the main ones nowadays is access. A lot of the logistics chains, they kind of make sure they can get the 18 wheelers in there, parked. That's why a lot of the users that are looking out that way, they're always making sure that they're centralized too. So like, let's say the great Southwest district here just South of DFW Airport; that's one of the biggest industrial hubs over here, you can get to almost any part of the metroplex within 20 to 30 minutes max. And then you'll have Alliance, which is in North Fortworth. I think that's a sleeper town that a lot of people overlook here but they're just building more and more bigger boxes up there. And it's due to 35 West Highway that goes all the way down to Austin, even down where you guys are at. So that's become another major hub press as well. And FedEx, Amazon they're all up that way. And you've got little pockets up in Plano as well which is probably about 30 minutes from the airport and they've got some major like Toyota is looking to move up that way. And they've got everybody else just following them over here. James: So do you look at, like for example, in multifamily, we look at household demographic, we look at median household income and income growth, job growth and all that. But it looks like industrial is different, I guess. Like you have to look at how convenient it is for the 18 wheelers to meet and compare and also seems to be some kind of adjacency with the certain key distributors like Amazon or Toyota. So is that key factors, I presume? Cody: Yeah, absolutely. And actually, we've got a map behind us. James: So those who are on YouTube, you can definitely see the map. Cody: Yeah. James: To really, you know, talk numbers in terms of what? Cody: Just as the Dallas Fortworth airport right here. And this is the great South West district that Michael was talking about. This is where you'll have a lot of warehousing and a lot of it up North as well. Amazon's got a large center as well. So you've kind of have the same thing, which is growing a lot out here where Hillwood has their Alliance airport. And then the same thing back over here where Dallas load field is, there's a lot of warehouses over there and there's a lot off limits. So you know, a lot of these guys where we see a lot of tenant velocity and things of that nature are going to be closest to the airports because that [07:49unclear] Fortworth because here and going to Fortworth and go to Dallas and go South and go North and they can receive from one of the largest airports in the world right here. James: Got it. So it's basically access to the airport and access to the highway and how can we get to go to other big cities, I guess, right? Fortworth, Austin. Cody: And they don't necessarily need highway visibility cause that's your most expensive parcel of land, but they need good access to it. And so having that nearby that airport, they've got access to I-20, I-30, 183, 360, and so that's a really good hub. And that's why that district is such a large district and continues to expand. James: Is there like a park, like an industrial park where the city or the government is allocated or is it like, is there random everywhere? Cody: They're more spread out. James: So there is no like tax incentive offered by any government or any cities, I guess. Cody: Well, yeah, certain cities will offer certain tax incentives. I know Dallas offers quite a few in certain areas and even if you start getting into like the opportunities zone areas and things of that nature. James: Got it. Got it. Got it. So, you talk in terms of industrial, in terms of square footage, right? That's what you said, or square footage and access, access is also an amenity. But I presume, what is the average price per square feet in terms of industrial buildings? Michael: So that is a very good question cause those can actually range anywhere between 50 a foot all the way up to, you know, building new. It also depends on the age of the building, ceiling height, [09:39unclear] in the building. So there's a lot of factors in industrial that you have to account for. How many docks as well. Dock high, grade level doors or are you familiar with any of these terms? James: No, no. This is all completely new. But it's important. I want you guys to share that level of detail because I want people to really learn how do you, cause I'm going to go to their underwriting later on. So that's going to features of the industrial, is that like a class A, class B, class C industrial buildings? Cody: Absolutely. Go over some of the rates that you see on some... James: Yeah. What are the class As? Cody: Are you asking for rental rates? James: Rental rates and also buildings, right. I presume that's all correlated? Michael: Yeah. So rental rates, you'll see anything, depending, like I said, very niche-specific stuff. So like you'll see anything from $4 a foot all the way up to 10 and sometimes even higher and triple net or some of the newer industrial products coming out. And then you have if it's, you know, if it's in the less desirable area, they'll Teeter with the four to seven modified gross or industrial gross as you'll hear. And those usually have some expenses in there that are charged back to the tenant. As for space, if the space is less desirable, you're going to see more of that industrial gross number anywhere between, you know, five to seven. Newer stuff, like I said, $10, sometimes triple net, just depending on area and access. Cody: And a lot of times is that building size gets larger, that rental rate, well a lot of times go down. James: Okay. Okay. So before we probably go further, can you define triple-net because a lot of people in the residential stage, they are not used to this triple net. Can you define triple net, what does it mean? Michael: Yeah. So if you can ever in residential, try to charge them triple net. But when I was saying it's a triple net, basically it's taxes, insurance, and common area maintenance is charged back to your [11:46unclear] Sometimes you can get an absolute triple-net deal and that's where the tenant also care of the roof and structure. It's not as common in industrial unless it's a single-tenant deal, but most of the time you're going to see this regular triple nets. James: Okay. Right. Interesting. Because we don't have that in multifamily. That'd be awesome. So triple net also means that if the property taxes go up, the landlord doesn't get any impact. We still get the rents that we supposed to get, I guess. Michael: That's correct. And sometimes, you know, your tenant, if they're a little more savvy they'll have like a protection on no higher increase in five to 10% on their common area maintenance or taxes. So let's say like your lawn guy wants to charge you way more, that'll force you to just find a new one at a more reasonable price. James: Got it. Got it. Got it. So what is the landlord responsible for then? Michael: Roof and parking lot. Structuring the building if it's triple net. Yeah. James: So does the landlord still get the tax benefits of owning the real estate? I'm presume so, right? Because you own the building, you own the roof and you own the real estate, I guess, right? Cody: Yes. So, well it depends on the tax benefits that they're getting, but if it's, you know, ownership of the real estate tax benefits, yes. Now if it's business-related or some of that nature, that's for them, obviously. James: Correct. Correct, correct. And I think the depreciation schedule for industrial and an office, I just want to cover that, is 39 and a half. Is that right if I'm not mistaken. Cody: I believe you're correct. James: I think in residential it's 27.5 and all of the asset classes like 39 or 39.5, I can't remember. But that's a good distinction within triple net and the normal deals that we buy in multifamily. So, coming back to my question, I know we talked about different rental rates, but are there any classes that you guys have categorized in terms of industrial buildings? So it's just based on how old they are and there's no real definition... Cody: Yeah. So they do have classes, you've got B, you've got C, you've got A class and a lot of times that is determined by age and location and building quality and things of that nature. James: Okay. Okay. Got it. Got it, got it. But definitely have to be in some way accessible near to their distribution part I would say, or distribution hub. I guess Cody: That's when a lot of them like it, they are very keen on location. But like I said, I didn't have to have highway frontage. In that access is very key. James: Okay. What about the, who buys the industrial? I want to interview a buyer of industrial parks and industrial buildings and I can never find, but you guys know all these guys, but who buys...what are the typical buyer characteristics or where does it come from? What does he look for? What is his appetite in terms of investment whenever they buy these industrial buildings? Cody: Absolutely. So there's a lot of buyers for industrial and they increase every day. And you know, even for the small Bay warehouses, you know, we have so many of those people that keep pouring into the marketplace and not just Texas, but in the US as a whole. But yeah, I mean industrial probably gets some of the most cross product or cross asset buyers that we've got. You know, people from self-storage buy these, people retail, past experience, they buy these. We even have apartment owners and operators buy these. But you know, there's a lot of REITs and institutions and things of that nature that are big in it. But no, a lot of, I would say the past 10 industrial buildings that we sold, probably I think, I want to say seven of those were an out of state owners. James: Got it. Are they from coastal city? Like New York and California? Are they local? Cody: Yeah. Canada, Florida, Chicago, absolutely. James: And do you see that this one guy buying across the nation or it's still very localized? Cody: No, a lot of these people will buy across the nation, but this is a market that a lot of these people will look into. James: Texas, they like a lot of Texas? Cody: Oh absolutely. Yeah. And like Michael was saying, you know, because of the Dallas Fortworth economy and things of that nature, it gets a lot of eyes. James: Got it. Very interesting. So, let's go back to underwriting and industrial building. So I presume that's a rental of the building where the tenants...is it like usually one tenant or is it like multiple tenants or how does that or is it all the 17-wheelers parking need to pay rent? Cody: Yeah, it can be one tenant. We just sold a very large complex off of 360 and about 80 tenants in it. So, it can be very, very intense with a lot of tenants. And I think the group that bought that had a lot of multifamily experience as well. James: So 80 tenants in one building. I mean, do they have like counters in it or do they have docks? Cody: Yeah, so it was a bunch of buildings in a business park and so it was about 22 of them. And so it was just park. James: So it's like an industrial park where everybody had buildings and they ran the... Cody: Yeah, they had their own suites and things of that nature. James: Okay. So if it's triple net then probably there's nothing to do with expense ratio for a landlord. Right, because you get [17:30 crosstalk] Cody: One of those, I believe, were on gross leases still, but with industrial, a lot of people that aren't on triple net are going that way. James: Okay. Explain what's the difference between gross lease and triple net? Cody: So a gross lease, you'll find a lot more in office, in general office. You will absolutely find it in an industrial and gross lease is going to be where the landlord's taking on commonary maintenance, landscaping, repairs and maintenance, you know, HVAC, things of that nature. And so it's more management intensive. Your expenses on the landlord are going to be higher and that's a gross lease. But then you start getting into other types of leases. You know, you've got full service, you got gross, you've got modified gross and you get into like net, double net, triple net. James: Oh, okay. And what about full service? As you mentioned, because I've seen Cody: So full service, you're really only going to see that in office. And what I mean by that is landlord pays everything. They pay the utilities, they pay the janitorial, they pay the common area maintenance, they pay taxes, insurance, they cover everything. A tenant goes in as you know, a price per square foot and that's all they pay. James: Got it. Got it. Very interesting. So let's go to office. I mean in general, people are worried about office. Because you know, people say the trend is working from home. So is that still true? Cody: Not here. James: Not probably in Dallas, I guess. Cody: No. I think office is actually trending a lot more towards coworking and things of that nature. And that's a model that has just expanded and blown up like crazy, especially out here in Dallas, Fortworth. James: So what is a typical investor who's looking to buy office space, office buildings? Where do they come from, what do they look for in an office? What kind of hold time do they have usually? Michael: Yeah. So their hold time can range anywhere between five and seven years. But you know, we just did a major value-add project in Plano where Toyota's headquarters is. State Farm had moved out and it was probably 20% occupied. That buyer actually, you know, did a bridge loan and he's going to go ahead and get that filled up very quickly, just cause the area's occupancy is not any lower than 80, 85%. But where these buyers come from, same thing as the industrial guys, cause a lot of industrial buyers also look at office and office guys look at industrial as well. But like I was telling you the other day on the phone, we've noticed a huge influx of multifamily buyers moving into office just because the returns are a little higher. And so, we had like that last guy, California we've got one in Chicago looking at one of our deals right now. We've got a couple of local groups out here that know these office buildings really well too and they know the trends of the area and how the occupancy is. So one specifically we're working on right near White Rock Lake in Dallas. That one's at 92, 93%, and that one's always been full ever since anybody can remember. So that's where these buyers come from. Any other questions? James: Yeah. How do you decide this office space is in a good location? Other than knowing, I know Plano is hard and I know free score is hard, but how, what are the parameters you look for in terms of like like you know, jobs growth in that particular submarket? Michael: So, yeah, so you look for competition within the area for that office building, comparables in that market to the building because if you know the market really well and you know every building, you'll see that some gives you like a better bang for your buck. You know, some will have a lot of amenities that they're starting to offer. [21:48unclear] groups are starting to do incubator spaces where they have a smaller coworking model and then their tenants will grow into spaces that are available in their building that they have rooms. And so they'll convert, you know, a small executive office and they can charge anywhere, you know, 35 to $45 per square foot just for a room. And as that tenant grows, they can grow within the building. But if you want to look at like specific markets like Las Colinas Irving area, are you familiar with that area? James: Yeah. Michael: Yeah. So you know that area has a lot of office and that's one thing you need to make sure of when you're looking at a deal. How many other class B or class A properties can your tenants look at before they commit to a space? But if you're looking over in Dallas, like where White Rock is, our building is the only building for the next two or three miles before you hit a highway, either going towards 75 or going North towards 635. And so that's why this building has been able to capture a lot of the people who don't want to drive all the way to 75 and fight that traffic every day or drive North on 635 and fight with that traffic as well. James: So you probably look at a cost, what the VPD, vehicle per day drive on that nearby highway, I guess. And I think you probably...I mean, as you mentioned, you look at other office supply in that area and I'm presuming you look at vacancy rate as well, on nearby office. And what tool do you use? Is it CoStar that you guys is primary for this industrial and office? Cody: Yeah. So there's a lot of tools you can use CoStar and Craxi and things of that nature. There's a lot of, you know, real capital analytics as well. They track a lot of good stuff. What I would also say on the office side is it's probably one of the product types. It's a little closer to multifamily as far as kind of a how to make them successful and things of that nature. Because, you know, when people go look at a multifamily complex, they usually have a couple options. And so a lot of times what they'll look at is amenities, access, recent renovations, things of that nature. What can they do for me on a new move in? And so office is very much a model that is driven just like multifamily. And so, keeping up with the times, making sure the renovations are good, making sure the building offers things like the deli or wifi and stuff of that nature or coworking style environment. Those things all help office buildings succeed. James: Got it. And what about this vacancy rate? Cause sometimes they're not...I mean multi-families and people that need a place to leave and vacancies are pretty low I guess comparatively to office, I mean different tenant profile. Right. So what is the average vacancy rate? I mean, how do I know like this area, this is the vacancy rate because somebody can be like six months, one year or somebody can be a few months, right? Depends on the area, I guess. How do you determine what is the vacancy rate for office and what are the lease terms in office? Cody: Absolutely. So the vacancy rate is going to be area driven. And so, you'll have certain areas like downtown Fortworth, which will have a certain vacancy rate and then that is going to be very much different than Las Colinas, downtown Dallas, Plano Allen, McKinney, Frisco. We pulled something earlier today working on a few things out in the Allen and McKinney area up there by Frisco and you know, they're class B office spaces around 5% on the vacancy side, which is very good for office, especially with more and more supply continuing to come up out there. In Los Colinas, it's gonna move a little bit more. And so, in my career, I've seen Los Colinas go down to almost 30%, and come up to somewhere around 10. But there's a lot of supply out there and there's always things shifting. Fortworth, I believe their occupancy is higher than what's being shown, but that's because XTO owned a bunch of the office product out there at one time and they recently sold a lot of that off. So some of that's being converted to hotels and things of that nature. But what you want to look at when you're buying an office building is yes, the area of vacancy, the area rental rates, but also the velocity of tenants, how many tenants are moving in that area. And then you also want to look at what are the size of tenants, the square footage sizes that we have and what is really the area tenant size. And so, some people will buy a building and they'll have 10,000, 15,000 square foot units, when the area is really commanding three to 5,000 square foot tenants. And so they'll see a lot longer on market time. And so what they need to do is chop those spaces down. James: And do people who buy, you know, I just want to add industrial. So industrial office, are they people who syndicate deals, like what a lot of multifamily people do? Or is it REITs or is it some institutional or some rich guy from the coastal areas? Cody: It can be a rich guy like yourself or it could [27:23crosstalk] James: I'm in Austin, Texas. Cody: It varies. When you start dealing under $5 million, a lot of that's going to be private. James: But is it a lot of syndication happening? Cody: Oh yeah. James: Oh really? Okay. So, syndication is not a multifamily game only is also in the office and industrial. Okay. That's really good to know because I didn't know that. Michael: Yeah. And to go back on your question, you're asking about these terms. So you want to make sure that, area driven but you also want to make sure that your TIs are not going to eat you alive. James: Yeah. So TI is tenant improvements; just for our audience, for them to know. Michael: Yes. So and you'll see a lot of these guys in office that are moving. Sometimes they really want like a gold plated wall finish out and you just can't do that for them. You need to make sure you get that lease term where it can get your TIs not in the red for the first year. I even try to keep that around like $10 or so per square foot. But you'll see those terms go just depending on what they need done to the space, how many offices they need built out. You'll see that range anywhere between three years, five years, seven or 10, sometimes 15. That's really big one that's usually the range you'll see on a lease term. James: Got it. So I think it's all up to negotiation and how much the landlord is going to pay and how strong is the lease terms and all that. How do you qualify your tenants? I mean, let's say I'm a buyer, I'm buying an office space with 10 different tenants in it, how do I say this is a class A tenant, this is a class B tenant and this is a class C tenant. And how do I say that? Michael: So when we underwrite a lot of these deals, we're looking at the tenants, how long they've been there. We can also reach out to the seller or ourselves if we know the tenant what their credit rating is. And you can give a write upon them. Like we were selling a three tenant deal out in Las Colinas and some of the tenants themselves put in their own money. They put in 500,000 in improvements to the space work for them. So that was one of the things that we made sure that we had in our OM when we were underwriting that deal and how much time they had left. Cause when you're looking at these, you're like, Oh man, this guy, he's only got a year or two left. But you know, a year or two ago they put $500,000 into this space. So sometimes it was a really big key factors, explaining these commitment levels of the tenant. James: So you said credit rating. Is there data that you pull out from them or you just look at history and how they [30:18unclear] Michael: Yeah, all those things combined. James: But is that something that way you can pull from the credit rating of the tenants? Is that a system or you just have to look [30:30unclear] Michael: Yeah, not always, but you know, when you're working a lease deal when I used to lease back from the day, we would get tenant financials from them, sometimes, yeah. James: So based on their financials and what's their commitment to the space that's where you establish their credit rating, I guess? Michael: Yes. And comfort level and then like, Oh, okay. I feel like their financials are good enough for me to say. James: So it's very subjective then because I mean, somebody who want to sell the deal, he may say to all my tenants are A-plus credit rating, I guess. So, I'm just trying to quantify that a bit more, but I think it looks like there's no real... Cody: Sometimes you would have like an A-plus credit rating or something of that nature is when you've got like a DaVita or something of that nature in the building or a FedEx or something like that. But a lot of times, office buildings will have, you know, a little bit more generic companies, local regional firms. And so that's why Michael said if they're going to spend a lot of money on the finish out, they'll say, Hey, we'd like to see your business financials just so we can make sure that the money we're spending that you look like someone's going to be in business for the term. And you know, they're pretty much used to that. James: Got it. Got it. So let's say a building is being sold right now and some of the residents have like one or two years left in their lease. If they get to know that somebody's going to buy this building, will they start negotiating with the new buyer or the new buyer have an option to know whether they're going to be renewing? How does that work? Cause you know, that basically increases your risk. Michael: Yeah. So typically they do not know until you're pretty far along in the process. So they'll usually get attendant estoppel, which will signal to them that, Hey the building may change hands to a new owner. But although they're getting that, it's mainly just a lease verification to make sure also their security deposit is transferred over as well. And you know, you don't want to alert the tenants, but you also want to make sure that when you're working on these, they're paying what they're saying on the OM and it's matching what it has on the estoppel as well. James: Got it. Got it, got it. Well, Michael and Cody, thanks for coming. I mean, can you tell our audience and listeners how to get hold of you? You guys are doing really big deals in the DFW area. I'm not sure, are you guys covering any of the areas other than DFW? Cody: I'd say 95% of the business that we've got is in DFW now. We will branch out and sell a couple of things here and there. We're actually about to bring out a 20 story office tower out in Corpus Christi. That's a relationship that we have. James: Let me know if some of the towers in Austin is coming for Salem. Probably I can even buy one. Cody: Absolutely. James: I just heard there are 37 new towers coming in Austin. Cody: Well, there's a lot of people that are looking out there, I can tell you that. James: Yeah. So why not you guys tell our audience how to get hold of you guys. Cody: I'll do it. So yeah, Cody Payne, Michael Tran. Our number is (817) 840-0055, we're with Colliers International, we're office and industrial specialists and we've got some really good self-storage and retail guys here as well. James: Good, good. Guys, look for a specialist because all this asset class, there's a lot of nuances to it as so much of details. Not everybody can do this. And you know, these guys are some of the best in the industry. Thanks for coming on Cody: See you.
WS512: A Vote for Office and Industrial Investments with Cody Payne
The Real Estate Syndication Show
Today on the Real Estate Syndication Show, listeners will learn more about the opportunities in the office and industrial property space. Joining in to share his expertise is Cody Payne, an office and industrial investment sales specialist for Colliers International. He is a team leader for a nine-person investment sales team that works with private institutional funds and syndicators across the globe. Cody shares more specifically what asset classes they are focused on and advises which properties will be best suited to investors who are willing to take more risks and those who prefer to play it safe.---Our gracious sponsor:Gene Trowbridge and Jillian Sidoti, founding partners of the top syndication law firm Trowbridge Sidoti, have a legal team with over 88 years of combined legal experience. That team, along with their amazing support staff, has helped clients raise over 3.7 billion dollars in offerings by being dedicated to empowering entrepreneurs to raise capital legally, while allowing them time for other important things in their life. To learn more, visit the Crowdfunding Lawyers YouTube channel or website. ---