2020 Summit Special: The Rules for Aggressive Sales Growth with Justin Roff-Marsh
The Melting Pot with Dominic Monkhouse
2020 Summit Special: The Rules for Aggressives Sales Growth with Justin Roff-MarshToday's Summit Special is Justin Roff-Marsh. On a wet and windy day in Wiltshire it is great to look at the video of Justin speaking at the Monkhouse & Company Summit September 2020. Justin helps people revolutionise their sales function. If the question you ask yourself is, "if I double the number of sellers, will I double my revenue?". And if you paused, or hesitated, or said no, then implementing Justin's The Machine would give you some clarity. It fixes not just sales; it might even fix many bits of your organisation. But it certainly impacts sales, marketing, and customer service—the whole customer journey. Justin looks at it from the perspective of lean manufacturing. There are a couple of controversial things: no commission, no individual targets. Those are pretty difficult for some people to accept in the first instance. They feel that salespeople are coin-operated. So, challenge your bias and beliefs in how sales works or should work, or seek a solution to the problem in your business and listen to this twenty minutes of Justin Roff-Marsh magic from the stage at the Summit.If in the end, you find yourself amazed and in need to find out more, you're in luck because Justin is running one of his workshops in the UK on 26th May at The Management Lab on the farm in Wiltshire. So if you like this twenty minutes, head over to our Prescription for Growth page to get your ticket. You better be quick because there's only a few left.Enjoy! Born in Cambridge, raised in Australia and resident in Los Angeles, Justin started his fantastic talk at the Summit, defining his accent as a "hybrid". Right after that, he jumps straight into what he calls the three-step programme. Justin and his team are usually introduced to an organisation by the CEO or private equity. "Our mandate is always the same, figure out how to grow this organisation". Then, three ideas are brought to the table. "You could think of these ideas as a three-step programme"The three-step programmeWith a mandate to rapidly grow an organisation, the first thing that Justin and his team do is work to restructure the organisation so that salespeople perform only one activity, which they call selling conversations. "And by only, I mean they do absolutely nothing else", says Justin. That means that if you work for this organisation and you come in with a card that has the word 'Sales' on it, you only have one decision to make: "will I work in this particular instance or not?". If you choose to work, there's no further thinking required. "There's only one activity that you're responsible for, and that is selling conversations". And that will go on, selling conversation after selling conversation on repeat until you go home. Achieving that requires a restructuring of the organisation. So, that's the first idea. If you want to grow your organisation aggressively, Justin's first piece of advice is to "restructure those organisations so that salespeople do nothing other than selling conversations". The second idea is that after restructuring your company, the next thing you want to do is carefully examine the activities performed in the field. "You want to look at each activity and ask yourself one question: does this activity absolutely have to be performed in the field, face to face with customers". If you are honest, you'll conclude that not every activity currently being performed face to face with customers actually needs to be. In fact, virtually none do. Justin reckons that when you identify those activities that don't need to be performed face to face, "the obvious thing you can do is take those activities out of the field and move them inside to a central location". And by that, he means an office in the UK if your market is Europe, not 27 offices spread across Europe. So that's the second piece of advice.The third one is straightforward. Remove your salespeople's autonomy and remove their commissions. At these words came out, you could see the shock on the audience faces. To which Justin admits, "I didn't say salespeople were going to like it. I said it was simple". By doing that, he's not suggesting that you take away their autonomy and invariable pay because salespeople are going to like it or because you're likely to see an increase in performance - "even though you will". He suggests that, in reality, taking away their autonomy and piece-rate pay is a prerequisite for the first two steps. As Justin simply put it: "you cannot restructure your organisation - so that salespeople spend 100% of their time selling - and you cannot move 90% of activities that are currently performed face to face with customers inside." The important reason is that "it's those first two steps that are what's really going to move the needle.""So if you really want to give your organisation a kick in the pants and grow it aggressively", those are the steps you have to take. Assuming that your business has good fundamentals. You have to take away commissions so that you have a "mandate that allows you to implement those first two steps consistently, unflinchingly and exhaustively in your organisations." Selling ConversationsTo achieve aggressive growth following Justin's three-step programme, you need to be clear on what 'selling conversations' mean. We all know what the word 'conversation' means, but what about that other one, 'selling'?If you asked your Director of Sales to define the word selling, "they will have you believe that the word 'selling' refers to all the activities that a salesperson typically performs, which has a degree of circularity that should disqualify for many intelligent explorations into the subject." So then, Justin takes a different approach to the same question: "but what's the one activity that a salesperson performs that genuinely and inarguably generates value?" And what do we mean by closing? - Justin asked the audience - do we mean actually signing the paperwork? PersuasionDrawing from the question what does closing actually means, the author of The Machine, demystify the idea of salespeople sitting with the customer wrestling. He goes back to his past in sales when they used to say, you move the pen, I'll hold the paper. "That doesn't actually happen, and in most of the cases, contracts come in by email or via DocuSign, right?". So when we talk about closing, what we really are talking about is convincing persuasion. Justin then defines a selling conversation as a "conversation where a salesperson is persuading". Now, if you've had a customer coming back for his seventh transaction, the amount of persuasion required will depend on your operational performance. "If you screwed up the last six transactions, a whole bunch of persuasion. But if you've done a good job, none." Justin attributes this to "the magical thing called nurture". It's costly for organisations to move their business around the place. You've got all sorts of switching costs, including the risk. If you sell expensive things, the risk can be the highest switching cost. So if you transacted with an organisation more than zero times and sell a product of substance, and you've done a good job at keeping your promise, then there will be no persuasion required. According to Justin, there's only one type of interaction where persuasion is required: "the first. The role of your salespeople should be to convince folks to transact with you for the first time. Because once they transact with you for the first time, they get to experience your operational efficiencies. And on account of switching costs, after they've experienced those operational efficiencies for the first time they're hooked and no further persuasion is required."This will result in what we should call "a relationship". But we don't. We degraded that word, and we use it to refer to the personal relationship between the salesperson and the prospect. But the personal relationship should be overpowered by the commercial relationship. Justin's recommendation is that salespeople should use their superpower exclusively to convince those that have never transacted with you before to do it for the first time. The end result of moving sales activities inside, says Justin, is we get to build what he calls "inside sales team". We don't want telemarketers. We want to take professional salespeople with whom your customers would like to transact with. We want them inside in an environment where they can comfortably have 15 selling conversations a day – many more than what salespeople is currently having."
Why Sales Hasn’t Even Gotten Started with Justin Roff-Marsh
Justin Roff-Marsh is an author of The Machine: A Radical Approach to the Design of the Sales Function, a book with ideas that blow Jeremey’s mind. In this provocative episode, hear why Justin believes that SDRs should be fired or have their roles reconfigured, why first meetings shouldn’t be called discovery meetings, and why paying commissions in a complex sales environment is “too silly for words.” Visit SalesLoft.com for show notes and insights from this episode.
Justin Roff-Marsh Author of "The Machine" and Founder of Ballistix
Jamie, Carney, Jason Ferrara, and Pete Jansons chat with Sales Process Engineer Wizzard Justin Roff-Marsh author of The Machine and Founder of Ballistix Quotes: 2 reactions from CEO's being introduced to SPE (Sales Process Engineering) 1) "Fuck me this is painful, this is giving me a headache get me out of here 2) "Fuck Yea get the troops together I've had an insight that can give us a competitive advantage" "You don't need SDR's" "If you're Selling something Large/Significant enough you shouldn't have BDR/SDR. If your selling something small enough that there s argument to have BDR/SDR and no argument for salespeople then you should shut the whole thing down and give the money back to your customers in the form of everyday lower prices" "You need your best salespeople to have the initial conversation" "You want to improve the efficiency of your best salespeople "Don't take away the initial conversation from your best reps take away all the additional crap they shouldn't be doing" "CRM should only be used for the purpose of new business" Topics: Why is it that Senior Leadership is afraid to bring in a consultant? 3 reasons why Customers leave CRM Pay Salespeople a salary. No more pay at risk Have an idea for a topic, or guest? Pete@saasholes.net
Justin Roff-Marsh is the author of "The Machine: A Radical Approach to the Design of the Sales Function", and the Founder of Ballistix, a sales process engineering consultancy. I really enjoy having Justin on the show because he challenges so much of the conventional sales orthodoxy. And he does it in a very logical fashion. On this episode we talk about why sellers should shift their focus from conversion rate to opportunity flow. Plus, we get into the 3 main factors Justin sees suppressing opportunity in sales teams._Arm your team with the tools they need to work from anywhere. Watch the video @ www.ringDNA.com/andy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
787: Challenging Sales Orthodoxy, with Justin Roff-Marsh
Sales Enablement Podcast with Andy Paul
Justin Roff-Marsh is the author of, "The Machine: A Radical Approach to the Design of the Sales Function," and Founder of Ballistix, a Los Angeles-based sales consultancy.In this episode, Justin and I challenge sales orthodoxy on a wide range of topics. Tune in to see why I love having Justin on the show to confront the conservative, hidebound thinking that dominates in sales. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Episode 2 - Justin Roff-Marsh - The secret to scaling your sales team, unifying your sales team, and counting - then multiplying - sales conversations to drive revenue
The Talent, Sales & Scale Podcast
For the second episode of The Talent, Sales & Scale Podcast, host Bryan Whittington is joined by Justin Roff-Marsh, Author of "The Machine" and founder of Ballistix. Get ready - because some MAJOR "sales leadership commandments" are challenged on this episode. Beware! Here are some key takeaways from this value-packed episode with Justin: -Salespeople must unify as a team and always provide value. -Counting the number of sales convos is having and then multiplying that number by 5 is a recipe for growth -"Question the axioms" that most sales teams are built on. Then build your own. THINK! Ballistix website: https://ballistix.com/ Justin's book: https://www.amazon.com/Machine-Radical-Approach-Design-Function/dp/1626342245 Justi's book recommendation, "The Goal" by Eliyahu M. Goldratt: https://www.amazon.com/Goal-Process-Ongoing-Improvement/dp/0884271951 You can connect with Justin on LinkedIn here (after reading his book recommendations 😎) : https://www.linkedin.com/in/justinroffmarsh/
Bizcast: Bits about books – In Conversation with Justin Roff-Marsh, author, The Machine
Bits about Books
Justin Roff-MarshThe Machine The core problem according to Justin is that Salespeople operate as autonomous agents marching to their own drum beats. All the assumptions that underpin the design of the modern sales function made perfect sense in the 1950’s. Today they should be members of a coordinated team. The success of Amazon is from making its interface as friction free as possible. What can B2B selling learn from that? Justin arrived at the central idea of the book while struggling to arrive at a solution to address serious lack of outcome in his selling endeavor’s. How could you have a process that would allow a sales person to make 12 sales conversations in a day instead of spending half the time prospecting and the other half writing reports? These and more insights from the ground in this great episode of Bits About Books. Run time – 45.46 mins. The post Bizcast: Bits about books – In Conversation with Justin Roff-Marsh, author, The Machine appeared first on Business Podcast Network.
Rethinking The Sales Process with Justin Roff-Marsh
The Melting Pot with Dominic Monkhouse
If you’re wondering why your sales team isn’t converting, maybe it isn’t time to double the size of the team; maybe it’s time to rethink your whole sales process. In fact, while you’re at it, why don’t you scale back the sales’ team responsibilities, divide up their tasks, division of labour, so to speak, and have your sales executives responsible for just, sales… Controversial? Maybe, but this approach to sales is what today’s guest, Justin Roff-Marsh advocates not just in his book, The Machine, but with his management consultancy company, Ballistix. “Typically we will either build a sales function entirely from scratch, or we will work with [a company] on the rebuild of their sales function. I say sales function loosely because actually most of the work that we do is building the functions or rebuilding the functions that are adjacent to sales, so as to make sales more productive.” Having dedicated the last 15 years of his 30 year career to developing a scientific approach to the design and management of sales processes, Justin is incredibly well placed to discuss why companies need to rethink their sales function if they hope to scale. Because Justin is on a mission to shatter the myths around what makes sales people great. On today’s podcast: Why sales should learn from effective operations and production environments What Ballistix does Why companies’ approach to sales is wrong Why the sales environment needs to feature division of labour The misplaced focus on marketing Why we shouldn’t pay salespeople commission Why sales isn’t all about personal relationships Links: The Machine - Justin Roff-Marsh
26: Sales Process Engineering with Justin Roff-Marsh
The Profitable Property Management Podcast
Today I am talking with Justin Roff-Marsh, the author of, The Machine: A Radical Approach to the Design of the Sales Function. And guys, it truly is pretty radical. Justin is also the founder of Ballistix, a consulting firm that builds and re-engineers sales environments from the ground up. He's been doing this for 15 years plus and he's been building more efficient sales functions to help companies, really just grow. Dominate their market. And the work that he's done is called, “Sales Process Engineering”. In our chat today, we're going to go over what exactly Sales Process Engineering is and why it's so important for property management entrepreneurs. Justin walks us through what this looks like in practice, from the organizational structure to compensation. Justin tends to work with larger organizations, but what we are talking about could not be more relevant to the property management industry and I’m so excited that Justin has come on the show with us today.
1340: A Radical Approach to the Design of the Sales Function with Justin Roff-Marsh
Archive 5 of Entrepreneurs On Fire
Visit EOFire.com for complete show notes of every Podcast episode. Justin is the author of THE MACHINE: A Radical Approach to the Design of the Sales Function. He’s also the founder of Ballistix: a consultancy that builds sales functions for organizations in North America, Australia and the United Kingdom.