Episode 125: Gary Taubes addresses common arguments used against ketogenic diets
Today we have the second part of our interview with science and health journalist Gary Taubes. In the first part of our interview, episode 124, we talked to Gary about his new book “The Case For Keto: Rethinking Weight Control and the Science and Practice of Low-Carb/High-Fat Eating.” In today’s episode, we talk in detail about a growing body of research and evidence that demonstrates the health benefits and safety of ketogenic diets. We also address why there remains stubborn resistance to low-carb/high fat diets in some nutrition circles. Plus, Gary responds to common arguments used against the ketogenic diet, ranging from health and safety and climate change to claims that ketogenic diets don’t work for women. Gary turned to journalism back in the 1970s after receiving his master’s degree in aeronautical engineering from Stanford University. Today, he continues to practice journalism and is the founder and director of the Nutrition Science Initiative. Be sure to check out part one of our interview, as well as our 2016 interview with Gary which followed the release of his New York Times best-seller “The Case Against Sugar.” Show notes: 00:02:58 Ken starts part two of our interview with Gary by mentioning that there is now substantial evidence supporting the efficacy and safety of low-carb diets. Ken mentions more and more physicians are prescribing this way of eating to their patients and large numbers of people are having success losing weight and managing type-2 diabetes using ketogenic diets. In light of that information, Ken asks Gary for his thoughts on why the U.S. News and World Report annual diet ranking stubbornly continues to describe the ketogenic diet as a detrimental way to eat. 00:09:25 Ken asks Gary to respond to some of the common arguments against the ketogenic diet ranging from human health and safety to climate change. 00:12:50 Ken asks about the claim that people on a ketogenic diet might lose a lot of weight in the short term but gain that weight back in the long term. 00:13:56 Gary tackles the criticism that ketogenic diets do not work for women. 00:16:02 Ken asks Gary to address concerns about the supposed unsustainability of ketogenic diets, noting how it is possible some people might have difficulty maintaining the diet for long periods of time. 00:19:20 Ken supposes that perhaps some of the anxiety surrounding a low-carb/high-fat diet has to do with LDL cholesterol. Ken mentions that some people on the diet, often referred to as hyper-responders, experience elevated levels of LDL and are warned by their physicians that this increases risk for heart disease. Ken asks Gary what he thinks the road forward should be for hyper-responders and others who are anxious about their LDL levels. 00:28:55 Dawn mentions that in 2018, Lancet published a study that aimed to make sense of the increasingly crowded world of low-carb diets. The authors, a team from Harvard, studied more than 15,000 American adults (aged 45-64) from four different communities over a 25-year period using dietary questionnaires. Dawn goes on to explain how these questionnaires revealed that consumers of both extremely low-carb diets and extremely high-carb diets had higher death rates over the course of the study. The lead author of this study was quoted as saying, “Our findings add to the growing evidence that animal-based low-carbohydrate diets are associated with increased mortality and therefore should be discouraged in the long term.” The last line of the paper reads, “Alternatively, when restricting carbohydrate intake, replacement of carbohydrates with predominately plant-based fats and proteins could be considered as a long-term approach to promote healthy aging.” News outlets described this paper as “the most comprehensive study of carbohydrate intake done to date.” She asks Gary to respond to this study and its conclusions. 00:39:31 Dawn asks what Gary’s ideal study design would look like to examine the safety and efficacy of the ketogenic diet. 00:42:30 Considering the recent birth of initiatives like EAT-Lancet, Dawn asks Gary if he sees the diet-science world moving in a more positive direction. 00:45:36 Ken asks Gary to elaborate on his view that the tools and equipment we use in science often shape the way researchers perceive the phenomena they observe. 00:50:21 Dawn asks Gary what it’s like being married to someone who prefers a mostly vegetarian diet. 00:51:52 Dawn mentions that even more than nutrition science or public health in this country, Gary’s interest has always been understanding the difference between good science and bad science. Dawn asks when Gary will write a book on that topic. 00:53:35 Ken mentions how the media often promulgates the notion that “science proceeds by consensus,”and that if the majority of scientists agree on a topic it is societally decided to be true. He goes on to say that this, of course, is not how science works, and the increasing attempts to squash criticism of established thinking parallel Gary’s career since the early 2000s. Ken asks if Gary has any more thoughts on this phenomenon. 00:57:12 Dawn closes the interview by asking if it is true that Gary had a high school guidance counselor who tried to put Gary in his place by saying Gary was “no Einstein.” Links: Gary Taubes bio Gary Taubes on Amazon Learn more about IHMC STEM-Talk homepage Ken Ford bio Ken Ford Wikipedia page Dawn Kernagis bio
#167 - Gary Taubes: Bad science and challenging the conventional wisdom of obesity
The Peter Attia Drive
Gary Taubes is an investigative science and health journalist and a best-selling author. In this podcast, Gary explains how he developed a healthy skepticism for science as he was transitioning from being a physics major to beginning as a science journalist. He talks about how he was particularly drawn to sussing out “pathologic science,” telling the stories behind his books on the discovery of the W and Z bosons and cold fusion, emphasizing the need for researchers to perform a thorough background analysis. Gary then describes how his work came to focus on public health, nutrition, and obesity. He provides a great historic overview of obesity research and provides his explanation for why the conventional wisdom today is incorrect.We discuss: Gary’s background in science and journalism, and developing a healthy skepticism for science [2:20]; Gary’s boxing experience, and the challenge of appreciating behavioral risk [8:40]; How Gary developed his writing skills, and what the best science writers do well [16:45]; Example of how science can go wrong, and the story behind Gary’s first book, Nobel Dreams [25:15]; Theoretical vs. experimental physicists: The important differentiation and the relationship between the two [36:00]; Pathological science: research tainted by unconscious bias or subjective effects [40:30]; Reflecting on the aftermath of writing Nobel Dreams and the legacy of Carlo Rubbia [49:45]; Scientific fraud: The story of the cold fusion experiments at Georgia Tech and the subject of Gary’s book, Bad Science [53:45]; Problems with epidemiology, history of the scientific method, and the conflict of public health science [1:09:00]; Gary’s first foray into the bad science of nutrition [1:26:45]; Research implicating insulin’s role in obesity, and the story behind what led to Gary’s book, Good Calories, Bad Calories [1:36:15] The history of obesity research, dietary fat, and fat metabolism [1:46:00] The evolving understanding of the role of fat metabolism in obesity and weight gain [1:55:15] Mutant mice experiments giving way to competing theories about obesity [2:04:00] How Gary thinks about the findings that do not support his alternative hypothesis about obesity [2:08:00] Challenges with addressing the obesity and diabetes epidemics, palatability and convenience of food, and other hypotheses [2:14:45]; Challenging the energy balance hypothesis, and the difficulty of doing good nutrition studies [2:25:00]; and More. Learn more: https://peterattiamd.com/ Show notes page for this episode: https://peterattiamd.com/GaryTaubes Subscribe to receive exclusive subscriber-only content: https://peterattiamd.com/subscribe/ Sign up to receive Peter's email newsletter: https://peterattiamd.com/newsletter/ Connect with Peter on Facebook | Twitter | Instagram.
Episode 124: Gary Taubes makes a case for the ketogenic diet and its metabolic benefits
Today we have journalist Gary Taubes making a repeat appearance on STEM-Talk to discuss his new book, “The Case for Keto: Rethinking Weight Control and the Science and Practice of Low-Carb/High-Fat Eating.” Our interview with Gary in 2016, episode 37, followed the release of his book, “The Case Against Sugar,” which went on to become a New York Times best seller. “The Case for Keto” is Gary’s fourth book about diet and chronic disease. Gary made national headlines in 2002 when he wrote an article for the New York Times Magazine challenging the low-fat orthodoxy that had held sway in America since the 1970s. In the article, titled “What if It’s All Been a Big Fat Lie,” Gary wrote that perhaps Dr. Robert Atkins with his Atkins Diet was correct in suggesting that it’s not fat that makes us fat, but carbohydrates. Our conversation with Gary covered a lot of ground, and we have divided his interview into two parts. Today we talk to Gary about his reasons for writing the new book and how opinions on a low-carb and high-fat diet have changed over the past 20 years. In part two of our interview with Gary, we dig deeper into his efforts to set the record straight about the role of diet and weight control in preventing chronic diseases, as well as the role that diet plays in helping people improve their health spans. Gary turned to journalism back in the 1970s after receiving his master’s degree in aeronautical engineering from Stanford University. Today, he continues to practice journalism and is the founder and director of the Nutrition Science Initiative. Show notes: 00:03:43 Dawn welcomes Gary back to STEM-Talk and asks how things went for him as a writer during COVID-19 and the lockdowns. 00:04:24 Dawn gives some background on Gary’s new book The Case for Keto, which is his fourth book to follow and expand upon a 2002 article he wrote for the New Times Magazine titled, “What if It’s All Been a Big Fat Lie?” She asks Gary if he ever anticipated writing four books about the relationship between diet and chronic disease when the article came out 20 years ago. 00:06:09 Ken mentions that Gary’s New York Times Magazine article questioned the effectiveness of low-fat diets, which the government’s dietary guidelines had been recommending since the late 1970s. Ken adds that almost overnight Gary become public health enemy number one, and asks Gary if he expected so much pushback as a result of the article. 00:10:53 Dawn describes how the release of Michael Pollan’s book The Omnivore’s Dilemma, which draws on work by both Gary and Dr. Atkins, seemed to change consumers’ eating habits. Dawn then asks Gary if he remembers seeing or being surprised by the disappearance of pasta and bread from restaurants and grocery shelves. 00:14:41 Ken notes that in the blurb Michael Pollan wrote for the jacket of Gary’s 2007 book, Good Calories, Bad Calories, Michael said the book would change the way people think about eating. While Gary’s work did not end up changing national heart, health and diet guidelines, low-carb and ketogenic diets have become quite popular since then. Ken asks Gary what he thinks is driving this interest in keto. 00:19:41 Dawn describes Gary’s 2011 best seller Why We Get Fat as a condensed summary of the research contained in Good Calories, Bad Calories combined with new research on hormonal-based weight gain. She mentions Gary’s argument that the medical community and the federal government has misinterpreted scientific data on nutrition over the past several decades in developing a U.S. food policy that recommends a low-fat diet. Dawn notes there has recently been a steady accumulation of studies supporting carbohydrate restriction and the safety of saturated fat since Gary’s first two books came out. She asks Gary if this trend has been rewarding to watch. 00:22:47 Ken mentions that Gary’s new book, The Case for Keto, is an attempt to rectify decades-old misunderstandings people have had about the ketogenic diet, weight control, and health span. Gary explains why he chose to tackle the topic. 00:27:15 Dawn notes that although the medical community is beginning to see the benefits of a ketogenic diet, many doctors still promote the low-fat Mediterranean diet because they believe it is safer in the long term. Gary outlines the relative safety of the ketogenic diet compared to a Mediterranean. 00:34:02 Ken asks Gary for his thoughts on the cartoonish portrayals of ketogenic diets that describe them as being comprised of Crisco, butter, and bacon. 00:38:55 Dawn notes that there are many degrees of carbohydrate restriction that can be termed low-carb and asks Gary if there is a threshold that people should aim for in order to derive the metabolic benefits of a low-carb diet. She also asks whether a ketogenic diet provides additional benefits over a low-carb diet that simply limits carbohydrates. 0042:49 Gary ends part one of the interview by discussing the effects of burning fat for fuel rather than carbs.
Who Should Eat Keto and Why? | This episode is brought to you by Paleovalley, Joovv, and TrueDarkChances are, you’ve heard a lot of buzz about the ketogenic (or keto) diet. This high-fat, low-carb approach to eating has become extremely popular in recent years for helping with everything from weight loss to cognition. So is it worth the hype? Like any diet, keto is great for some people and not-so-great for others. Genetics, family history, personal health goals, and so many other factors tie into what type of diet will work for an individual. The one-size-fits-all approach to diet has led way too many people down the wrong path.Today, I’m excited to chat with Gary Taubes all about the keto diet, it’s complexities and benefits, and who might want to consider it. Gary is an award-winning science and health journalist, and co-founder and director of the Nutrition Science Initiative. He is the author of The Case Against Sugar, Why We Get Fat, Good Calories, Bad Calories, and, most recently, The Case for Keto. Gary is a former staff writer for Discover and correspondent for Science. He has written three cover articles on nutrition and health for The New York Times Magazine, and his writing has also appeared in The Atlantic, Esquire, and numerous "best of" anthologies, including The Best of the Best American Science Writing (2010). He has received three Science in Society Journalism Awards from the National Association of Science Writers, and is also the recipient of a Robert Wood Johnson Foundation Investigator Award in Health Policy Research.This episode is brought to you by Paleovalley, Joovv, and TrueDark.Paleovalley is offering 15% off your entire first order. Just go to paleovalley.com/hyman to check out all their clean Paleo products and take advantage of this deal.Right now, Joovv is offering Doctor’s Farmacy listeners an exclusive discount on Joovv’s Generation 3.0 devices. Just go to Joovv.com/farmacy and use the code FARMACY. Some exclusions do apply. Right now, TrueDark is offering podcast listeners 15% with code DRHYMAN15. Just go to truedark.com/hyman.Here are more of the details from our interview: How an investigative journalism piece on salt and blood pressure led to Gary’s ongoing inquiry into the obesity epidemic (9:11)Why we get fat (13:58)Why science mistakenly began focusing on calories, instead of hormones, to understand obesity (17:58)The origin and perpetuation of fat shaming and obesity stigma (21:45)There is no one-size-fits-all diet (29:02)Using a keto (or low-carb, high-fat) diet to decrease insulin levels (37:20)How ultra-processed, starchy refined carbohydrates are driving most of our global issues (50:15)Would humans and the planet be healthier if we all stopped eating meat and became vegan? (52:34)Connecting what you eat with how you feel (57:57)Research on treating and reversing type 2 diabetes using a ketogenic diet (1:04:41)Using a ketogenic diet to treat cancer, heart disease, heart failure, dementia, epilepsy, and more (1:17:05)Learn more about Gary Taubes at http://garytaubes.com/ and get a copy of his book, The Case for Keto: Rethinking Weight Control and the Science and Practice of Low-Carb/High-Fat Eating at http://garytaubes.com/works/books/the-case-for-keto-2020/.Follow Gary on Facebook @GaryTaubesAuthor, and on Twitter @garytaubes. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.
167. Gary Taubes — The Case for Keto: Rethinking Weight Control and the Science and Practice of Low-Carb/High-Fat Eating
The Michael Shermer Show
For years, health organizations have preached the same rules for losing weight: restrict your calories, eat less, exercise more. So why doesn’t it work for everyone? The Case for Keto puts the ketogenic diet movement in the necessary historical and scientific perspective. It makes clear the vital misconceptions in how we’ve come to think about obesity and diet. Shermer and Taubes discuss: scientific consensus, nutrition, replication, why Newtonian mechanics doesn’t work with human bodies, the physics model of calories, complicating variables, intermittent fasting, which fruits and vegetables you should consume and avoid, cholesterol, heart disease, statins, and why it is okay to have bacon-and-eggs for breakfast.
The Fat-Burning Man Show with Abel James: Real Food, Real Results
How can we burn fat without hunger? Why is “eat less, exercise more” terrible advice for most people? Returning to the show this week is award-winning investigative science writer, speaker and bestselling author, Gary Taubes.
H.V.M.N. Podcast welcomes back Gary Taubes to discuss his new book “The Case for Keto” which is a "manifesto for the twenty-first-century fight against obesity and diabetes." In addition to the core findings of the book, Geoff and Gary talk about the evolution of the keto community, the debate, and personalities within the nutrition commentariat, and what are the characteristics of an experiment and study to better understand the predictive power of the two main models for obesity: the carbohydrate-insulin model vs. the calories in vs. calories out model. Get the first free chapters of the book here: https://gary-taubes.ck.page/30b0a6a3b7 _____________ Watch this episode on Youtube: https://youtu.be/B1AZhHBKICI Learn More About H.V.M.N. here: https://hvmn.com/pod Join the Official H.V.M.N. Podcast Discord Community by filling out this quick survey: https://go.hvmn.com/discordsurvey Send a message to email@example.com with feedback, questions, and guest suggestions!
Lisa is joined by Gary Taubes an investigative science and health journalist and co-founder of the non-profit Nutrition Science Initiative (NuSI.org). He is the author of Why We Get Fat and What to Do About It and Good Calories, Bad Calories (The Diet Delusion in the UK). Taubes is the recipient of a Robert Wood Johnson Foundation Investigator Award in Health Policy Research, and has won numerous other awards for his journalism. These include the International Health Reporting Award from the Pan American Health Organization and the National Association of Science Writers Science in Society Journalism Award, which he won in 1996, 1999 and 2001. (He is the first print journalist to win this award three times.) Taubes graduated from Harvard College in 1977 with an S.B. degree in applied physics, and received an M.S. degree in engineering from Stanford University (1978) and in journalism from Columbia University (1981).He joins Lisa to talk about his latest book, The Case for Keto: Rethinking Weight Control and the Science and Practice of Low-Carb/High-Fat EatingHere is the book description:Based on twenty years of investigative reporting and interviews with 100 practicing physicians who embrace the keto lifestyle as the best prescription for their patients' health, Gary Taubes gives us a manifesto for the twenty-first-century fight against obesity and diabetes.For years, health organizations have preached the same rules for losing weight: restrict your calories, eat less, exercise more. So why doesn't it work for everyone? Taubes, whose seminal book Good Calories, Bad Calories and cover stories for The New York Times Magazine changed the way we look at nutrition and health, sets the record straight.The Case for Keto puts the ketogenic diet movement in the necessary historical and scientific perspective. It makes clear the vital misconceptions in how we've come to think about obesity and diet (no, people do not become fat simply because they eat too much; hormones play the critical role) and uses the collected clinical experience of the medical community to provide essential practical advice. Taubes reveals why the established rules about eating healthy might be the wrong approach to weight loss for millions of people, and how low-carbohydrate, high-fat/ketogenic diets can help so many of us achieve and maintain a healthy weight for life. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Gary Taubes (@garytaubes) is an investigative science and health journalist and co-founder of the non-profit Nutrition Science Initiative. He is the author of The Case Against Sugar, Why We Get Fat and What to Do About It, and Good Calories, Bad Calories, which was published as The Diet Delusion in the UK. Gary just release a new book at the end of 2020 titled The Case for Keto: Rethinking Weight Control and the Science and Practice of Low-Carb/High-Fat Eating. In this episode, we discuss: Gary studying physics in college and due to his weight realized his dreams of being an astronaut wouldn’t happen Why low-fat diets became popular The start of Gary’s journalism career doing investigative reporting Gary's fascination with bad science If we can’t trust science, who do we go to for information about health and wellness? The case for keto making people healthier The ketogenic diet defined The history of ketogenic diets A carb restricted diet is a high-fat diet Stop being afraid of fat Gary limits starches, grains, and sugar in his diet When your partner isn’t on board with the same dietary philosophy Eating the foods we were programmed to think would kill us How low-carb diets affect cholesterol and do you need a statin? Being one of the drivers of the low-carb revolution Obesity is an insulin signalling disorder Fat is the one nutrient that doesn’t stimulate insulin Sex hormones play a huge role in obesity Conventional nutrition wisdom is feeding us the wrong information Our parents’ generation was taught “If you don’t want to be fat, you had to eat carbs.” The obesity prevalence has tripled since 1980 What is cephalic phase secretion? The misinterpretation that obesity is caused by eating Experimenting with intermittent fasting and time-restricted eating Do you have a carbohydrate addiction? You are not confined to a diet, you are adhering to being healthy Show sponsors: Garden of Life <== Try Garden of Life's Sport Certified Grass Fed Whey Organifi <== 20% off all Organifi products BiOptimizers <== 10% off all BiOptimizers products by using the code ultimatehealth at checkout Paleovalley <== 15% off all Paleovalley products by using the code ultimatehealth at checkout Related links: Gary Taubes - The Case For Keto (book) Gary Taubes' website Follow Gary Taubes on Facebook and Twitter Gary Taubes - The Case Against Sugar (book) Gary Taubes - Why We Get Fat (book) Gary Taubes - Good Calories, Bad Calories (book) Gary Taubes - Bad Science (book) Gary Taubes (articles) Dr. Robert C. Atkins (books) Arthur Agatston - South Beach (books) Michael Eades - Protein Power (book) The New Sugar Busters! (book) Virta Health Jean Anthelme Brillat-Savarin - The Physiology Of Taste (book) Herman Taller - Calories Don’t Count (book) Dean Ornish (books) Michael Pollan (books) Rosalyn Yalow and Solomon Berson Aubrey Gordon - What We Don’t Talk About When We Talk About Fat (book) Jane Brody - Good Food (book) Roxane Gay - Hunger (book) Dr. Jason Fung (books) Listen to Dr. Jason Fung previously on TUHP (episodes #369 and #380) Related episodes: 353: Dr. Satchin Panda – Time-Restricted Eating (TRE) & Managing Your Light Exposure 291: Dr. Joseph Mercola – KetoFast • Near-Infrared Saunas • Stop Eating Before Bed 280: Dr. Josh Axe – Keto Diet • Treating Cancer With Food • Collagen Is Essential 273: Dr. David Perlmutter – Grain Brain • Cholesterol Is Your Friend • What Is Keto Cycling? 126: Jimmy Moore – The Ketogenic Diet & The Health Benefits Of Being In Ketosis • Fasting 101 Note: Some of the links above are affiliate links. Making a purchase through these links won't cost you anything but we will receive a small commission. This is an easy, free way of supporting the podcast. Thank you! How can you support our podcast? 1. Apple users, please subscribe and review our show on Apple Podcasts, we make sure to read them all. Android users, be sure to subscribe to our show on Google Podcasts. Subscribers never miss any of the action ;) 2. Tell a friend about The Ultimate Health Podcast. They will surely thank you later. You can use the envelope button below to email a friend or tell them about TUHP in person. 3. Join TUHP Facebook community (FREE). This is where we all stay in touch and ask questions in between episodes. Join our community. 4. Follow our adventures on our favourite social media platform, Instagram. 5. Download The Ultimate Health Podcast app (FREE). This way you'll have our whole library of episodes right at your fingertips. Download our iOS/Apple app or our Android app. 6. Share using the buttons below. Thank you!
272: What nutrition science gets wrong about weight loss | Gary Taubes, science journalist
The mindbodygreen Podcast
Gary Taubes: “When you pay attention to what makes a fat cell fat, it's insulin—it just dominates everything.”Taubes, an award-winning science journalist, joins mbg co-CEO, Jason Wachob, to discuss why conventional nutrition advice sometimes doesn't work for weight loss (and what actually does), plus:*How to evade a sweet tooth**Why calorie restriction is a fools errand**How a low-carb, high-fat keto diet can help lower insulin levels**The truth about keto-friendly sweeteners**Exactly what happens to your fat cells during a fast*Enjoy this episode! Whether it's an article or podcast, we want to know what we can do to help here at mindbodygreen. Let us know at: firstname.lastname@example.org. Also be sure to check out Taubes' new book, The Case For Keto, which you can find at http://garytaubes.com/works/books/the-case-for-keto-2020.