Aaron Gustafson

We're taking a look at the brand new version of Microsoft Edge and its Chromium based rendering engine. What does that change mean for web developers, and how does the death of Microsoft's own rendering engine impact the web? Drew McLellan talks to Microsoft's Aaron Gustafson and Stephanie Stimac to find out.

This is a talk from beyond tellerrand // Berlin 2019. Aaron Gustafson presents “Conversational Semantics” at the sixth #btconf in Berlin. Conversational Semantics This would branch off from my Designing the Conversation talk that I’ve given off and on for the past few years. The focus is understanding semantic HTML and the framing is the importance of this stuff in the world of headless UIs (like Alexa, Cortana, etc.). I plan to cover semantic meaning and how that translates into something that is meaningful for voice assistants and bots, taking advantage of native browser features to help users fill in forms more quickly via voice, and could even talk a bit about using JavaScript for speech recognition and synthesis if that’s of interest. About Aaron Gustafson As would be expected from a former manager of the Web Standards Project, Aaron Gustafson is passionate about web standards and accessibility. He’s been working on the Web for over two decades now and is a web standards advocate at Microsoft. In addition to working closely with the Edge team, Aaron works with partners on Progressive Web Apps, with a focus on cross-platform compatibility. He penned the seminal book on progressive enhancement, Adaptive Web Design, and has been known to have some opinions, many of which you can read at aaron-gustafson.com. Additional Information Info about beyond tellerrand Audio edited by Stefan Nitzsche

Topics include: Can you have more than one "h1" on page? How important is heading order? Why not everything that looks like a heading should necessarily be a heading Why you may want to include invisible headings in some situations What the document outline is and how your use of headings impacts it How to make your heading levels dynamic to make your components more flexible What a "sectioning context" is Can you have multiple "article" elements on one page? What even is an "article" anyways? How to use elements like "section" and "aside" properly Should navigation items be in lists? Why Aaron can't remember the last time he used a "span" Sponsors: DigitalOcean, get your free $50 credit at do.co/fullstack Cloudinary, sign up and get 300,000 images/videos, 10GB of storage and 20GB of monthly bandwidth for free Links: Aaron's personal website HTML5 Element Flowchart from html5 Doctor

Sponsors: Netlify Sentry use the code “devchat” for 2 months free on Sentry small plan CacheFly Host: Charles Max Wood Special Guest: Aaron Gustafson Episode Summary  This episode of Views on Vue comes to you live from Microsoft Ignite. Charles Max Wood talks to Aaron Gustafson who has been a Web Developer for more than 20 years and is also the Editor in Chief at “A List Apart”. Aaron gives a brief background on his work in the web community, explains to listeners how web standardization has evolved over time, where Progressive Web Apps (PWAs) come from, where and how can they be installed, differences between them and regular websites and their advantages. They then delve into more technical details about service workers, factors affecting the boot up time of JavaScript apps, best practices and features that are available with PWAs. Aaron mentions some resources people can use to learn about PWAs, talks about how every website can benefit from being a PWA, new features being introduced and the PWA vs Electron comparison. In the end, they also talk about life in general, that understanding what people have gone through and empathizing with them is important, as well as not making judgements based on people’s background, gender, race, health issues and so on. Links Creating & Enhancing Netscape Web Pages A List Apart A Progressive Roadmap for your Progressive Web App Windows Dev Center – Progressive Web Apps MDN web docs PWA Stats PWA Stats Twitter Aaron’s website Aaron’s Twitter https://www.facebook.com/ViewsonVue https://twitter.com/viewsonvue Picks Aaron Gustafson: Homegoing Zeitoun Charles Max Wood: Armada Special Guest: Aaron Gustafson .

Sponsors: Netlify Sentry use the code “devchat” for 2 months free on Sentry small plan CacheFly Host: Charles Max Wood Special Guest: Aaron Gustafson Episode Summary  This episode of Views on Vue comes to you live from Microsoft Ignite. Charles Max Wood talks to Aaron Gustafson who has been a Web Developer for more than 20 years and is also the Editor in Chief at “A List Apart”. Aaron gives a brief background on his work in the web community, explains to listeners how web standardization has evolved over time, where Progressive Web Apps (PWAs) come from, where and how can they be installed, differences between them and regular websites and their advantages. They then delve into more technical details about service workers, factors affecting the boot up time of JavaScript apps, best practices and features that are available with PWAs. Aaron mentions some resources people can use to learn about PWAs, talks about how every website can benefit from being a PWA, new features being introduced and the PWA vs Electron comparison. In the end, they also talk about life in general, that understanding what people have gone through and empathizing with them is important, as well as not making judgements based on people’s background, gender, race, health issues and so on. Links Creating & Enhancing Netscape Web Pages A List Apart A Progressive Roadmap for your Progressive Web App Windows Dev Center – Progressive Web Apps MDN web docs PWA Stats PWA Stats Twitter Aaron’s website Aaron’s Twitter https://www.facebook.com/ViewsonVue https://twitter.com/viewsonvue Picks Aaron Gustafson: Homegoing Zeitoun Charles Max Wood: Armada

Sponsors Sentry use the code “devchat” for $100 credit Triplebyte Clubhouse CacheFly Panel Charles Max Wood Joined by special guest: Aaron Gustafson Episode Summary  This episode of JavaScript Jabber comes to you live from Microsoft Ignite. Charles Max Wood talks to Aaron Gustafson who has been a Web Developer for more than 20 years and is also the Editor in Chief at “A List Apart”. Aaron gives a brief background on his work in the web community, explains to listeners how web standardization has evolved over time, where Progressive Web Apps (PWAs) come from, where and how can they be installed, differences between them and regular websites and their advantages. They then delve into more technical details about service workers, factors affecting the boot up time of JavaScript apps, best practices and features that are available with PWAs.  Aaron mentions some resources people can use to learn about PWAs, talks about how every website can benefit from being a PWA, new features being introduced and the PWA vs Electron comparison. In the end, they also talk about life in general, that understanding what people have gone through and empathizing with them is important, as well as not making judgements based on people’s background, gender, race, health issues and so on. Links Creating & Enhancing Netscape Web Pages A List Apart A Progressive Roadmap for your Progressive Web App Windows Dev Center - Progressive Web Apps MDN web docs PWA Stats PWA Stats Twitter Aaron’s website Aaron’s Twitter https://www.facebook.com/javascriptjabber/ https://twitter.com/JSJabber Picks Aaron Gustafson: Homegoing Zeitoun Charles Max Wood: Armada

Sponsors Sentry use the code “devchat” for $100 credit Triplebyte Clubhouse CacheFly Panel Charles Max Wood Joined by special guest: Aaron Gustafson Episode Summary  This episode of JavaScript Jabber comes to you live from Microsoft Ignite. Charles Max Wood talks to Aaron Gustafson who has been a Web Developer for more than 20 years and is also the Editor in Chief at “A List Apart”. Aaron gives a brief background on his work in the web community, explains to listeners how web standardization has evolved over time, where Progressive Web Apps (PWAs) come from, where and how can they be installed, differences between them and regular websites and their advantages. They then delve into more technical details about service workers, factors affecting the boot up time of JavaScript apps, best practices and features that are available with PWAs.  Aaron mentions some resources people can use to learn about PWAs, talks about how every website can benefit from being a PWA, new features being introduced and the PWA vs Electron comparison. In the end, they also talk about life in general, that understanding what people have gone through and empathizing with them is important, as well as not making judgements based on people’s background, gender, race, health issues and so on. Links Creating & Enhancing Netscape Web Pages A List Apart A Progressive Roadmap for your Progressive Web App Windows Dev Center - Progressive Web Apps MDN web docs PWA Stats PWA Stats Twitter Aaron’s website Aaron’s Twitter https://www.facebook.com/javascriptjabber/ https://twitter.com/JSJabber Picks Aaron Gustafson: Homegoing Zeitoun Charles Max Wood: Armada

Sponsors Sentry use the code “devchat” for $100 credit Triplebyte Clubhouse CacheFly Panel Charles Max Wood Joined by special guest: Aaron Gustafson Episode Summary  This episode of JavaScript Jabber comes to you live from Microsoft Ignite. Charles Max Wood talks to Aaron Gustafson who has been a Web Developer for more than 20 years and is also the Editor in Chief at “A List Apart”. Aaron gives a brief background on his work in the web community, explains to listeners how web standardization has evolved over time, where Progressive Web Apps (PWAs) come from, where and how can they be installed, differences between them and regular websites and their advantages. They then delve into more technical details about service workers, factors affecting the boot up time of JavaScript apps, best practices and features that are available with PWAs.  Aaron mentions some resources people can use to learn about PWAs, talks about how every website can benefit from being a PWA, new features being introduced and the PWA vs Electron comparison. In the end, they also talk about life in general, that understanding what people have gone through and empathizing with them is important, as well as not making judgements based on people’s background, gender, race, health issues and so on. Links Creating & Enhancing Netscape Web Pages A List Apart A Progressive Roadmap for your Progressive Web App Windows Dev Center - Progressive Web Apps MDN web docs PWA Stats PWA Stats Twitter Aaron’s website Aaron’s Twitter https://www.facebook.com/javascriptjabber/ https://twitter.com/JSJabber Picks Aaron Gustafson: Homegoing Zeitoun Charles Max Wood: Armada Special Guest: Aaron Gustafson.

Panel: Charles Max Wood (DevChat T.V.) Special Guests: Aaron Gustafson In this episode, the Chuck talks with Aaron Gustafson who is a web-standards and accessibility advocate working at Microsoft. Aaron and Chuck talk about PWAs and the ins and outs of these progressive web apps. Check out today’s episode to hear more! Show Topics: 0:36 – Chuck: Our guest is Aaron, say HI! 0:41 – Aaron: Hi! I have been working on the web for 20 plus years. I am working on the Edge team for accessibility among other things. I have done every job that you can do on the web. 1:08 – Chuck: That is one of OUR publications? 1:14 – Aaron: No the communities. I joined the staff as editor in chief for 1.5 year now. It’s a nice side project to do. 1:36 – Chuck: I thought it was a commercial thing. 1:40 – Aaron: No it’s volunteer. 1:52 – Chuck: Talk about your web background? 2:02 – Aaron: I remember the first book I got (title mentioned). My first job on the web (cash) I was the content manager in Florida and this was in 1999. Gel Macs just came out. I relocated from FL to CT and worked for other companies. I got into CSS among other things. It’s been a wild ride and done it all. 3:52 – Chuck: Let’s talk about web standards? 4:05 – Aaron: It depends on the organization and what the spec is and where it originates. It’s interesting to see how HTML developed back in the day. When standardization started working then everything started to converge. Everything is a little different now. Some specs come out from companies that... (Apple, Responsive Images, and Grid are mentioned among other things.) 7:37 – Chuck: We set up to talk about PWAs. Where did PWAs come from? 7:57 – Aaron: Modern web design, best web applications. Being secure. One of the underpinnings came out from Google and they have been supporters of that. Firefox is working on installation as well. The Chrome implementation is weird right now, but it becomes an orphaned app. It’s like the old chrome apps where in Windows you can install from the Microsoft store. But the case of Chrome you don’t have to go through the store. 10:14 – Chuck asks a question. 10:24 – Aaron answers. 11:53 – Chuck: What makes it a progressive web app rather than a regular website? 12:05 – Aaron: The definition is running on HTPS and... Aaron defines the terms that Chuck asks at 11:53. 12:43 – Aaron: Of course you can push forward if it makes sense from the baseline. 12:56 – Chuck: We have an Angular podcast, and we talked about PWAs and nobody had a good definition for it. 13:18 – Aaron. 13:22 – Chuck: What are the pros of having a PWA? Let’s start with the basics first. 13:33 – Aaron: The ability to control how you react to the network. We development is challenging maybe in other areas because of the lack of control and how your code gets to your users. Any special needs that YOU might have. Aaron goes into detail on this topic. 17:14 – Chuck: Is the service worker the star for PWAs? 17:20 – Aaron: In a way, kind of. Aaron goes into detail on this topic. Share 2 is mentioned, too. 19:42 – Chuck: If the service worker intermediates between the browser and the page / Internet would it make sense to have your worker have it load and then load everything else? Cause you have those Web Pack now. 20:14 – Aaron: Some people would consider it but I wouldn’t necessarily. I am not a fan for that. If anything goes wrong then nothing loads. I remember back when... 22:23 – Aaron: That is a lot of overhead. 22:34 – Chuck: I am wondering what is the best practice? How do you decide to pull in a service worker and then move into more complicated issues? 22:53 – Aaron: Progressive Web App where they talk about their evolution about this. 25:17 – Advertisement – Fresh Books! Code: DEVCHAT. 26:25 – Chuck: In order to be a PWA you don’t need to have a push notification. 26:38 – Aaron: I don’t think anyone would want a push notification from me. 27:12 – Chuck: What features do PWAs have? 27:18 – Aaron: Features? None of them really, other than push notifications, it’s just standard it’s going to make an App feel more App “y”. If that’s something you want to do. It’s up to you to determine that. There is going to be like push notifications – sending person new updates about the order. If you were a new site you want to make sure you are not doing a push notifications on everything cause that would be too much. Exercising care with the capabilities with what the users are doing on your computer. This is a person that you are dealing with. We need to seem less needy. Give users control of how they want to use it. For example, Twitter will give you that control per user. 30:56 – Chuck: Could you also do it for different parts of the page? 31:01 – Aaron: It’s different scopes. Your servicer worker has different scopes and it needs to be in the root folder or the JavaScript folder. You can have different workers but they will come from different scopes. 31:32 – Chuck gives a hypothetical example. 31:50 – You can do a bunch of different service workers. 32:11 – Chuck: This is why we create different hierarchies in our code. 32:26 – Chuck: Is there a good point where people can be more informed with PWAs? 32:40 – Aaron: PWA stats website and Twitter account with Cloud 4. 33:22 – Chuck asks a question. 33:26 – Aaron: Yes. If you are a photographer you don’t want to cash all of your photos on someone’s hard drive. We have to be good stewards of what is operating on people’s hard drives. Even something as simple as a blog can benefit from being a PWA. 35:01 – Chuck: Are there new things that are being added to a PWA? 35:12 – Aaron: A new feature is the background sync. Aaron: What is native and what is web? 36:33 – Chuck: Yeah it can detect a feature in your machine. Dark mode is... 36:48 – Aaron: It would be nice to see things standardized across the board. 37:00 – Chuck: How does this play into Electron or Android or...? Do those need to be PWAs? 37:16 – Aaron: It depends on what you are building. So I talked with people through Slack and they want total control. If you r desire is to shift the same experience then Electron can make a lot of sense. They will have to pay a premium, though, your users. If you are aware of that then go the Electron route. But for most cases then Electron might be overkill for you. You don’t need that extra overhead. 39:55 – Aaron continues. Aaron: I think the major benefit of PWA is... 41:15 – Chuck: The other angle to that is that in an Electron app does it make sense to use a PWA things? 41:23 – Aaron: Yes that makes sense. 41:34 – Unless for some reason you need to unlock into an older version, which I hope is not the case b/c of security reasons. 41:55 – Aaron continues. 42:34 – Chuck: Where can we find you? 42:35 – Aaron mentions Twitter and other sites. See Links! 43:02 – Advertisement – Get A Coder Job! Links: Ruby on Rails Angular PWA States Website PWA Twitter Electron Aaron’s Website Aaron’s LinkedIn Aaron’s Twitter Aaron’s GitHub Aaron’s YouTube Channel Aaron’s Medium Get A Coder Job Charles Max Wood’s Twitter Sponsors: Get a Coder Job Cache Fly Fresh Books Kendo UI Picks: Aaron Home Going by Yaa Gyasi Zeitoun What is the What Affect Conf. Charles Armada

Panel: Charles Max Wood (DevChat T.V.) Special Guests: Aaron Gustafson In this episode, the Chuck talks with Aaron Gustafson who is a web-standards and accessibility advocate working at Microsoft. Aaron and Chuck talk about PWAs and the ins and outs of these progressive web apps. Check out today’s episode to hear more! Show Topics: 0:36 – Chuck: Our guest is Aaron, say HI! 0:41 – Aaron: Hi! I have been working on the web for 20 plus years. I am working on the Edge team for accessibility among other things. I have done every job that you can do on the web. 1:08 – Chuck: That is one of OUR publications? 1:14 – Aaron: No the communities. I joined the staff as editor in chief for 1.5 year now. It’s a nice side project to do. 1:36 – Chuck: I thought it was a commercial thing. 1:40 – Aaron: No it’s volunteer. 1:52 – Chuck: Talk about your web background? 2:02 – Aaron: I remember the first book I got (title mentioned). My first job on the web (cash) I was the content manager in Florida and this was in 1999. Gel Macs just came out. I relocated from FL to CT and worked for other companies. I got into CSS among other things. It’s been a wild ride and done it all. 3:52 – Chuck: Let’s talk about web standards? 4:05 – Aaron: It depends on the organization and what the spec is and where it originates. It’s interesting to see how HTML developed back in the day. When standardization started working then everything started to converge. Everything is a little different now. Some specs come out from companies that... (Apple, Responsive Images, and Grid are mentioned among other things.) 7:37 – Chuck: We set up to talk about PWAs. Where did PWAs come from? 7:57 – Aaron: Modern web design, best web applications. Being secure. One of the underpinnings came out from Google and they have been supporters of that. Firefox is working on installation as well. The Chrome implementation is weird right now, but it becomes an orphaned app. It’s like the old chrome apps where in Windows you can install from the Microsoft store. But the case of Chrome you don’t have to go through the store. 10:14 – Chuck asks a question. 10:24 – Aaron answers. 11:53 – Chuck: What makes it a progressive web app rather than a regular website? 12:05 – Aaron: The definition is running on HTPS and... Aaron defines the terms that Chuck asks at 11:53. 12:43 – Aaron: Of course you can push forward if it makes sense from the baseline. 12:56 – Chuck: We have an Angular podcast, and we talked about PWAs and nobody had a good definition for it. 13:18 – Aaron. 13:22 – Chuck: What are the pros of having a PWA? Let’s start with the basics first. 13:33 – Aaron: The ability to control how you react to the network. We development is challenging maybe in other areas because of the lack of control and how your code gets to your users. Any special needs that YOU might have. Aaron goes into detail on this topic. 17:14 – Chuck: Is the service worker the star for PWAs? 17:20 – Aaron: In a way, kind of. Aaron goes into detail on this topic. Share 2 is mentioned, too. 19:42 – Chuck: If the service worker intermediates between the browser and the page / Internet would it make sense to have your worker have it load and then load everything else? Cause you have those Web Pack now. 20:14 – Aaron: Some people would consider it but I wouldn’t necessarily. I am not a fan for that. If anything goes wrong then nothing loads. I remember back when... 22:23 – Aaron: That is a lot of overhead. 22:34 – Chuck: I am wondering what is the best practice? How do you decide to pull in a service worker and then move into more complicated issues? 22:53 – Aaron: Progressive Web App where they talk about their evolution about this. 25:17 – Advertisement – Fresh Books! Code: DEVCHAT. 26:25 – Chuck: In order to be a PWA you don’t need to have a push notification. 26:38 – Aaron: I don’t think anyone would want a push notification from me. 27:12 – Chuck: What features do PWAs have? 27:18 – Aaron: Features? None of them really, other than push notifications, it’s just standard it’s going to make an App feel more App “y”. If that’s something you want to do. It’s up to you to determine that. There is going to be like push notifications – sending person new updates about the order. If you were a new site you want to make sure you are not doing a push notifications on everything cause that would be too much. Exercising care with the capabilities with what the users are doing on your computer. This is a person that you are dealing with. We need to seem less needy. Give users control of how they want to use it. For example, Twitter will give you that control per user. 30:56 – Chuck: Could you also do it for different parts of the page? 31:01 – Aaron: It’s different scopes. Your servicer worker has different scopes and it needs to be in the root folder or the JavaScript folder. You can have different workers but they will come from different scopes. 31:32 – Chuck gives a hypothetical example. 31:50 – You can do a bunch of different service workers. 32:11 – Chuck: This is why we create different hierarchies in our code. 32:26 – Chuck: Is there a good point where people can be more informed with PWAs? 32:40 – Aaron: PWA stats website and Twitter account with Cloud 4. 33:22 – Chuck asks a question. 33:26 – Aaron: Yes. If you are a photographer you don’t want to cash all of your photos on someone’s hard drive. We have to be good stewards of what is operating on people’s hard drives. Even something as simple as a blog can benefit from being a PWA. 35:01 – Chuck: Are there new things that are being added to a PWA? 35:12 – Aaron: A new feature is the background sync. Aaron: What is native and what is web? 36:33 – Chuck: Yeah it can detect a feature in your machine. Dark mode is... 36:48 – Aaron: It would be nice to see things standardized across the board. 37:00 – Chuck: How does this play into Electron or Android or...? Do those need to be PWAs? 37:16 – Aaron: It depends on what you are building. So I talked with people through Slack and they want total control. If you r desire is to shift the same experience then Electron can make a lot of sense. They will have to pay a premium, though, your users. If you are aware of that then go the Electron route. But for most cases then Electron might be overkill for you. You don’t need that extra overhead. 39:55 – Aaron continues. Aaron: I think the major benefit of PWA is... 41:15 – Chuck: The other angle to that is that in an Electron app does it make sense to use a PWA things? 41:23 – Aaron: Yes that makes sense. 41:34 – Unless for some reason you need to unlock into an older version, which I hope is not the case b/c of security reasons. 41:55 – Aaron continues. 42:34 – Chuck: Where can we find you? 42:35 – Aaron mentions Twitter and other sites. See Links! 43:02 – Advertisement – Get A Coder Job! Links: Ruby on Rails Angular PWA States Website PWA Twitter Electron Aaron’s Website Aaron’s LinkedIn Aaron’s Twitter Aaron’s GitHub Aaron’s YouTube Channel Aaron’s Medium Get A Coder Job Charles Max Wood’s Twitter Sponsors: Get a Coder Job Cache Fly Fresh Books Kendo UI Picks: Aaron Home Going by Yaa Gyasi Zeitoun What is the What Affect Conf. Charles Armada