Cover image of Marque Lawyers

Marque Lawyers

4 Podcast Episodes

Latest 24 Sep 2022 | Updated Daily

Episode artwork

The trailblazers: A law firm that’s banned metrics – Michael Bradley, Marque Lawyers (ep 78)

Doing Law Differently

Michael Bradley, today’s guest, gave me an unusual answer to a standard question. I wanted to know how his law firm goes about charging clients on value as opposed to time. I asked, “How does this work in practice?”   And he said, “Really well, actually!”   So, either Michael had a really good sleep that night or he’s just a genuinely happy lawyer. My instincts – and the conversation we have in this podcast – tell me it’s the latter.  Michael, like so many of us, left a big law firm to start a little one. Its name is Marque and the headline on its website reads ‘Law, done differently’. In the episode, we talk about what that means to him, starting with recognising the ways in which the law can make us unhappy:  “Early on, we recognised timesheets as one of the key causes of dysfunction for law firms and their relationships with clients.”   So, most of the work at Marque is done either on retainer or fixed fees and all metrics and measurements are banned. As he candidly puts it, everyone already measures people on an utterly subjective basis and his firm is just more honest about it. You really see what Michael means when he says that one of the big missions of the firm is to let everyone be one person – not a lawyer and a human being, separately.   When you start a business, you have a unique opportunity to throw away all your old ideas and ways of doing and start fresh. Everyone involved gets to pitch in their ideas and values and that melting pot becomes the overall purpose of your firm or company. But what happens next? What do you do when you’re a few years down the line? You’re paying people’s salaries, you’re drowning in overheads and it’s just not as simple as chucking it all out and starting again.  For Michael, this isn’t a catch-22 situation. His solution is to hit a metaphorical ‘reset’ button every few years to bring values up to date with changing staff and times. Here’s why he thinks it’s worth it:  “As your business grows, you have more to lose so it becomes riskier to make big changes. But businesses that aren’t prepared to take risks will stagnate.”   Exactly. Listen to the episode for an exploration of what happiness and fulfilment can look like in the legal industry and some of the ways you can go about finding some for yourself.  This episode is brought to you by Nexus Law Group and LawCPD.  About our guest The first 20 years of Michael Bradley’s career were spent at a large national law firm, following a career trajectory from graduate recruit to managing partner. In 2008 he left to start Marque with some colleagues, with the seriously stated purpose of completely changing the way law is practised. He’s been running Marque since then. Michael is also a widely published writer; he currently has a regular column with Crikey writing on justice and politics, and had a book published in 2019.  Marque has been an outlier in the industry since its launch. They operate on fundamentally different principles and business model from their competitors. Their driving purpose is to use law for good. They measure their success by reference to their own happiness and fulfilment.  Michael Bradley quotes “Lawyers have to have two personalities: lawyer and human. That means you’re okay with behaviours as a lawyer that your human side wouldn’t be okay with. Over time, this is very damaging. So, part of our vision was to just be one person at all times.” “Value pricing is very uncomfortable for lawyers. It seems so unscientific… so there’s a lot of fear attached to it.” “You have more to lose as you go on so it becomes riskier to make big changes. But businesses that aren’t prepared to take risks will stagnate.  “Fundamentally, we really liked being lawyers but we really hated the way law is done.”  Find Michael online Marque Lawyers website Twitter Instagram My new book – It’s Time To Do Law Differently  My new book It’s Time to Do Law Differently: How to Reshape Your Firm and Regain Your Life is now available! You can get your signed copy here. In It’s Time to Do Law Differently, I share my six-step blueprint for transforming your law firm. Learn how to move from a traditional practice to a productised ecosystem and as a bonus, you might just get that quality lifestyle that you’ve been craving.  If you haven’t got your copy yet, you can get a signed copy here or find the paper back and ebook on Amazon, Booktopia or your favourite online bookstore.  Thank you to Nexus Law Group  This episode is brought to you by Nexus Law Group. For those seeking positive career change, Nexus Law Group offers senior lawyers the freedom of sole practice with all the support and infrastructure you need so you can focus on what you do best – practising law. Contact Nexus to find out how you can take the next step towards a more rewarding legal career. Find out more on the Join Us page at nexuslawyers.com.au.  Your $25 discount from LawCPD Are you a lawyer who needs CPD? I’ve teamed up with LawCPD to help make that task easier for you. LawCPD provide premium CPD for Australian lawyers and they offer much more than just another webinar. LawCPD‘s courses are online, on-demand interactive learning. LawCPD are offering Doing Law Differently listeners $25 off their first purchase using the code DLD25. There are over 100 courses across all competency areas. Visit lawcpd.com.au to find your next CPD course and make sure you use the DLD25 code for $25 off.  Like this show? Learn more about Doing Law Differently in my new book, It’s Time to Do Law DifferentlyPlease leave me a rating and review on Apple Podcasts – even one sentence helps other people to find out about the show! Never miss an episode – subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts or SpotifyIf you’re doing law differently and want to share your insights on the podcast, get in touch here.Connect with me on LinkedIn The post The trailblazers: A law firm that’s banned metrics – Michael Bradley, Marque Lawyers (ep 78) appeared first on Lucy Dickens.


29 Mar 2021

Episode artwork

E17: How COVID Is Creating Opportunities for NewLaw Firms and Boutique Firms To Grow and Evolve - Damian Sturzaker, Partner at Marque Lawyers

The Leading Lawyer Project with Sam Burrett

What is the advantage NewLaw and Boutique firms have over top-tier traditional firms? What will be the impact of COVID-19 on lawyers and law firms?Why are firms like Marque Lawyers so important to the progression of the legal profession?In this week's episode of The Leading Lawyer Project, I had the pleasure of speaking with Damian Sturzaker, a Partner and co-founder of Marque Lawyers, one of Sydney's leading boutique firms.Damian is a well-recognised expert in commercial litigation, one of Australia’s Top Lawyers according to the Australian Financial Review, a Professorial Fellow in International Arbitration at the University of New South Wales AND a medallist in the Javelin at the Australian Master's Games.In this episode of The Leading Lawyer Project, we discuss:How Marque Lawyers baked value-based billing into their business model from the beginning;What it means to be a value-based firm;Why timesheets and hourly-billing can bring out bad behaviour in lawyers;What law firms can learn from the Global Financial Crisis as they face down the COVID crisis;Why it's important to be more human for your clients;The challenge for New Law/Boutique firms as they move to remote working; The impacts of COVID on Marque Lawyers;How to drive client loyalty during the pandemic;Professional development and career-building in the New Normal;Why top-tier firms are chasing the innovations pioneered by Marque Lawyers and others;Why timesheets hamper diversity and inclusion in law firms;Some of my favourite quotes from this episode:"It's a privilege to work in an area you love and with people who are at the top of their game""Success is to create a truly multi-generational firm - a thing that will survive us.""I want to demonstrate to my kids that you should want to go to work - you genuinely feel like this is something you enjoy and something that adds purpose to your life."You can find more about Damian and Marque Lawyers here: Marque Lawyers Website The Marque Lawyers Podcast - The Soap BoxDamian Sturzaker on LinkedInAlso:Please leave a review and a rating wherever you listen to your podcasts! It makes a huge difference and helps people find the show.Subscribe to The Leading Lawyer Project on iTunesConnect with me on LinkedIn Have an idea for the podcast or a guest you'd love to hear from? Drop me a line here: burrett.sam@gmail.com


14 Sep 2020

Similar People

Episode artwork

Privacy and Data: The impact of GDPR - with Justin Cudmore of Marque Lawyers

The IAB Australia Podcast

The GDPR is intended to give consistency across EU privacy laws, and it will impact companies worldwide. IAB’s Kamani Krishnan and Justin Cudmore, Partner at Marque Lawyers, discuss the impact of GDPR on companies in the Australian market. Need more info on GDPR? Download the IAB update here: http://po.st/uUjb6C.​(“Please note this is general information only, if you are seeking legal advice on the GDPR you should directly contact a legal expert to discuss your specific needs and requirements.”)


31 Jan 2018

Episode artwork

13: Marque Lawyers – Changing the game and forging a new path

Find Your Possible - Mezzanine.co

In this episode, Nikki chats to Michael Bradley, co-founder of Marque Lawyers, a law firm in Sydney Australia who are forging new paths in their industry. In our conversation we chatted about the challenges you can face when building and leading a meaningful organisation. In particular self growth, and nurturing people and teams. Michael really normalises the realities of building a purpose-driven business, one that’s trying to change the game while they play the game. Uncertainty and change occurs on a daily basis and you’re bound to make mistakes – now 8 years down the track, his message is to keep going. Also a big thank you to Naut for the music!


21 Feb 2017

Most Popular