Motion: ZK rollup has a better set of security/scalability tradeoff than optimistic rollup (Alex Gluchowski vs. John Adler, co-host: James Prestwich)
The Blockchain Debate Podcast
Guests:Alex Gluchowski (@gluk64)John Adler (@jadler0)Host:Richard Yan (@gentso09)James Prestwich (@_prestwich, special co-host)Today’s motion is “ZK rollup has a better set of security/scalability tradeoff than Optimistic rollup.”Rollups are a class of layer-2 Ethereum scalability solutions. They allow an off-chain aggregation of transactions inside a smart contract. Users can transact inside the contract with security guarantees, and they will settle to the mainchain at some future point.ZK and optimistic rollups are different in the way they ensure the validity of these transactions that are being kept off-chain.The ZK approach uses math. It bundles the transactions, compresses them, and adds a zero-knowledge proof that indicates the validity of the state transitions. When the transaction is sent to the mainchain, the block is verified by the attached zero-knowledge proof.The optimistic approach uses economic incentives. An operator publishes a state root that isn’t constantly checked by the rollup smart contract. Instead, everybody hopes that the state transition is correct. However, other operators or users can challenge the validity of the transactions, revert the incorrect block, and slash malicious operators.We compared the two approaches from the standpoint of security, usability, capital efficiency of exits and more.Today’s debaters are John Adler and Alex Gluchowski. John is the proposer of the original construction of the optimistic rollup, and Alex is implementing a ZK rollup at Matter Labs. Our co-host James Prestwich is a security consultant and auditor for solidity contracts, among many other things.If you’re into crypto and like to hear two sides of the story, be sure to also check out our previous episodes. We’ve featured some of the best known thinkers in the crypto space.If you would like to debate or want to nominate someone, please DM me at @blockdebate on Twitter.Please note that nothing in our podcast should be construed as financial advice.Source of select items discussed in the debate:Coindesk's layman guide for rollups: https://www.coindesk.com/ethereum-dapps-rollups-heres-whyAlex Gluchowski on the difference between the two rollups: https://medium.com/matter-labs/optimistic-vs-zk-rollup-deep-dive-ea141e71e075John Adler explains optimistic rollup: https://medium.com/@adlerjohn/the-why-s-of-optimistic-rollup-7c6a22cbb61a Lazy Ledger: https://lazyledger.orgFuel Labs: https://fuel.sh/Matter Labs: https://matter-labs.io/Debater bios:Alex Gluchowski is co-founder of Matter Labs, currently working on scaling Ethereum with zkSNARKs. He was previously CTO of PaulCamper, an online platform for sharing campervans and caravans in Europe.John Adler is co-founder of Lazy Ledger and Fuel Labs. He is the original proposer of the optimistic rollup construction. He previously did layer-2 research at ConsenSys. Interestingly, he is a self-proclaimed blockchain skeptic.James Prestwich founded cross-chain solution company Summa, subsequently acquired by the layer-1 blockchain firm Celo. He previously founded Storj, a decentralized cloud storage provider.
Episode 151: John Adler on Optimistic vs ZK Rollup and the data availability problem
In this episode, we chat with John Adler - co-founder of Lazy Ledger and Fuel Labs. We compare Optimistic Rollups and ZK Rollups as well as discuss how Ethereum, specifically Eth1, could look over the next few years. We also talk about the data availability challenge in blockchains and how Lazy Ledger aims to solve this. Relevant links can be found here: James Prestwich's thread on Scalability vs Throughput myths The LazyLedger academic paper Security analysis of ORU from Fuel What would a rollup-centric ethereum roadmap look like? Video: "Scaling Ethereum in 2020 and Beyond" - Vitalik Buterin Some additional thoughts from John on Eth1 Thanks to our sponsor Least Authority. Least Authority is a security consulting company known for their dedication to pushing the limits on how to build privacy-respecting solutions. They are a team of security researchers, open source developers, privacy advocates, cryptographers who specialize in security audits, design specification reviews, and security-by-design. Known for their security reviews, including work with zero knowledge proofs as well as having implemented zero-knowledge access passes with the distributed storage system, Tahoe-LAFS. If you are skilled in the area of zero-knowledge protocols and other advanced cryptography for scalability and privacy enhancing tech, you should get in contact with them. They’re expanding their team, so email them at firstname.lastname@example.org Thanks again Least Authority If you like what we do: Follow us on Twitter - @zeroknowledgefm -https://twitter.com/zeroknowledgefm Join us on Telegram -https://t.me/joinchat/B_81tQ57-ThZg8yOSx5gjA Catch us on Youtube -https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYWsYz5cKw4wZ9Mpe4kuM_g Read up on the r/ZKPodcast subreddit -https://www.reddit.com/r/zkpodcast Give us feedback! -https://forms.gle/iKMSrVtcAn6BByH6A Support our Gitcoin Grant -https://gitcoin.co/grants/329/zero-knowledge-podcast-2 Support us on the ZKPatreon -https://www.patreon.com/zeroknowledge Or directly here: ETH: 0xC0FFEE1B5083230a5154F55f253B6b6ae8F29B1a BTC: 1cafekGa3podM4fBxPSQc6RCEXQNTK8Zz ZEC: t1R2bujRF3Hzte9ALHpMJvY8t5kb9ut9SpQ
Hashing It Out #67-Optimistic Rollups - John Adler
Hashing It Out
Layer 2 scaling solutions have gone through a lot of iterations and disappointing conclusions in the past few years. There is a newer solution, which is boasting some positive (and safe) results: Optimistic Rollups. John Adler, Blockchain Researcher at Consensys, speaks on the history of Layer 2 solutions and describes Optimistic Rollups and how they may help with blockchain scaling. Links: John's Twitter Ethresearch Fuel Labs Lazy Ledger
Interview With The Surgeon welcomes Dr. John Adler, the Dorothy & TK Chan Professor of Neurosurgery and Radiation Oncology at Stanford University #Neurosurgeon #Neurosurgery #Radiosurgery #Cyberknife #Fellowship #Residency #Surgeon #Surgery #Doctor #SurgeonAgent
John Adler, Jr., MD John Adler is the CEO of both Zap Surgical Systems and Cureus Inc. Dr. Adler is world-renowned for inventing the CyberKnife and the related field of image-guided therapeutic radiation. Dr. Adler has been on the faculty of Stanford University since 1987, being appointed the Dorothy and TK Chan Professor of Neurosurgery and Radiation Oncology in 2007. His entire medical and neurosurgical education happened at Harvard, excepting a one-year fellowship at the Karolinska Institute with Lars Leksell, the “father of radiosurgery”. As an academician, John is the author or co-author on more than 300 peer reviewed articles and book chapters and serves or has served on the editorial boards of eight different peer reviewed journals. He is also a named inventor on more than 20 patents. While creating the CyberKnife, Dr. Adler founded Accuray Inc (NASDAQ: ARAY) in 1992 to commercialize his invention. Up until 2009 he served in varying roles at Accuray including CEO, Chief Medical Officer and Chairman. To date Accuray technology has been used to treat more than one million patients and most modern radiation equipment now incorporates John’s basic idea for image-guided targeting. In 2002 Dr. Adler founded the CyberKnife Society, later (2012) renamed the Radiosurgical Society. He also serves or has served on the scientific advisory boards of 7 different medical device or pharmaceutical companies. In 2014 Dr. Adler founded Zap Surgical Systems in Silicon Valley with a mission to “Advance Cancer Treatment for All Humanity”. His invention, the Zap-X received US FDA clearance in September 2018. John also founded and serves as the Co-Editor-in-Chief of Cureus.com, the world’s largest and fastest growing multi-disciplinary open access medical journal, publishing nearly 3000 peer-reviewed articles each year. Unrealistically and even laughably John yearns to live the peripatetic life of a big wave surfer.
John Adler: How Fuel Labs is Planning to Help Scale Ethereum
Into the Ether
John Adler, co-founder of Fuel Labs and long time Ethereum Layer 2 scalability researcher joins the podcast. John walks us through the history of Layer 2 scaling solutions attempted on Ethereum and brings us to the reason he co-founded Fuel Labs. They are looking to help scale Ethereum using optimistic rollups with an emphasis on the payments use case. John has an extremely deep understanding of Ethereum and layer 2 scaling. He also shares his thoughts on ProgPoW and flash loans.
John Adler: CEO, Call Control Episode 5 of “Getting Neighborly” features Fairview, Texas resident John Adler, co-founder and CEO of Call Control, a crowd-sourced solution that blocks millions of robocalls and scams worldwide, allowing consumers to personalize the calls they receive. John’s extensive information technology experience has ranged from multinational companies to startups. Not long after moving with his family to Fairview in 2001, John founded a technology committee to help bring better communications services, rates and choices to the community. He also served on the Fairview Town Council from 2014-18. “Fairview is a quilt, in a lot of ways. Some folks like to have a lot of uniformity, but I view it as choice … What makes the town special is that you can really make a difference; you can reach out and connect with people.”
Hashing It Out #67 - Optimistic Rollups - John Adler
The Bitcoin Podcast
Layer 2 scaling solutions have gone through a lot of iterations and disappointing conclusions in the past few years. There is a newer solution, which is boasting some positive (and safe) results: Optimistic Rollups. John Adler, Blockchain Researcher at Consensys, speaks on the history of Layer 2 solutions and describes Optimistic Rollups and how they may help with blockchain scaling.Links:John's TwitterEthresearchFuel LabsLazy Ledger
John Adler (Accuray), Trip Adler (Scribd) - Evolution of a CEO
Entrepreneurial Thought Leaders Video Series
John Adler and Trip Adler discuss their entrepreneurial experience and evolution as business leaders: John Adler describes his bumpy course in developing his biotechnology company, Accuray Incorporated; while his son Trip emphasizes the need for persistence and confidence in developing Scribd, a social publishing site. Despite building companies in different fields, the two offer the same central advice toward building a successful business: trust yourself, focus on developing a great product, and remember that there are no rules.